Do you think MM/MW would cheat on you if you were in the same boat as the BS?

[jlola]

My thoughts exactly. But a lot of other people seem to think 'Not divorcing' = 'Reconciled'.

 

I see it very differently indeed.

 

 

If that were true, most marriage counselors and therapist would not have a career. Also there are now many weekend retreats and other resources when people try to reconcile. I think back in the old days, most people did try to sweep it under the rug and had that "Well, at least he comes home to me." mentality.

 

I also do believe many WS like to have OW/OM believe the BS is the one who is desperate and begging to stay married. not the other way around. So it looks like BS has no pride and is pitiful. Most of the times, it is far from the truth.

 

But if the BS really knew what was going on and WS is the one desperate to get out of the marriage, why then is is so taboo for AP to call the spouse and talk about this situation. Person to person? Without WS around. Because the WS CANNOT ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN SINCE HE IS THE ONE FILTERING ALL THE INFO TO WIFE AND AP. Most of the info to both is a lie.

[MissBee]

To use an analogy, and to clarify the points of comparison so it doesn't get confused:

 

A house = the relationships, A or M, with all they contain.

 

Tornado = betrayal of an affair

 

Reconciling a marriage is more akin to rebuilding a house after a tornado has blown through. I am talking about true reconciliation, true rebuilding and not living in the rubble and pretending it's still a sturdy house.

 

Transitioning from an affair to an open relationship is akin to moving to a new house and setting up home there after a tornado. I think Got It's distinction that APs witness the betrayal but do not experience it, is a particularly important one in terms of the level of trust or externalizing and not factoring some things in, as one would if one were actually the one betrayed.

 

Rebuilding a house after a tornado is a totally different process mentally and practically than moving to a new house after a tornado. BOTH have their inherent issues, but the issues are different. Rebuilding when you're looking at your life in rubble essentially, (reconciliation) and moving to a new home, making it your own, fixing it up, which is what transitioning is, are different processes.

 

By its nature: rebuilding of anything which was severely damaged by external or internal forces is a more painstaking process than starting anew. When you have a new home, yes you have to fix it up, perhaps do some renovations, etc. but you don't need to overhaul it.

 

Forgiving someone, having your children or family forgive them, questioning your however many years together before and trying to rebuild or even start anew with them, is harder than starting a relationship where you feel there is nothing to forgive as the observer to the betrayal but the one who didn't experience it, and you're just creating a new and open life finally. Transitioning kids and divorce etc have nothing to do with the relationship itself in a transition, but are simply the practical aspects to a transition, which is not about rebuilding trust and isn't filled with resentments on the part of the WS and AP etc. The transition is a new relationship, like the house is a new house, and yes they may come with their own kinks but the kinks are of a fundamentally different nature than it is with a relationship or house with a long history, memories, stufff...which now has to be overhauled.

[Silly_Girl]

If that were true, most marriage counselors and therapist would not have a career. Also there are now many weekend retreats and other resources when people try to reconcile. I think back in the old days, most people did try to sweep it under the rug and had that "Well, at least he comes home to me." mentality.

 

Yes, there's a lot of counselling, a lot of therapy, a lot of learning and trying.

 

That does not negate the fact that even in this day and age many people do not go that route, do not learn, explore, strive etc.

 

I know 3 couples (4 including xMM) for whom 'sorry, I won't do it again' was sufficient. I know one of those couples very well and it FESTERED. Was awful.

 

Not everyone divorces but those who don't divorce don't necessarily truly reconcile.

[MissBee]

Yes, there's a lot of counselling, a lot of therapy, a lot of learning and trying.

 

That does not negate the fact that even in this day and age many people do not go that route, do not learn, explore, strive etc.

 

I know 3 couples (4 including xMM) for whom 'sorry, I won't do it again' was sufficient. I know one of those couples very well and it FESTERED. Was awful.

 

Not everyone divorces but those who don't divorce don't necessarily truly reconcile.

 

This is indeed true.

 

My parents never truly worked on anything.

 

Which is why earlier in the thread I made sure to distinguish between genuine reconciliation vs rug sweeping, as I knew inevitably the cases of rug sweeping would be used as a point of comparison or be presented as the standard for what reconciliation is over the cases where it is authentic.

Edited July 25, 2013 by MissBee

[cocorico]

Because there is only one reality?

 

The point is: the type of work put into a reconciliation differs from the type of work put into a transition and requires different mental orientations. You obviously have never reconciled with someone who betrayed you if you feel that process emotionally is the same as transitioning from an affair to an open R. From the mere fact that it's not a rebuilding with the resentment of a betrayal, the type of proving of one's self with all the negative feelings attached and distrust, differs from transitioning, even if there are points of similarity.

 

 

 

I think you should lead off with your own proper research first, which illustrates that what you assert is not simply your own reality or wish for reality . If you're unwilling, don't bother to ask other people to do the same.

 

However, it is simple common sense that transitioning an affair and reconciling after an affair require different mental and emotional orientations, and one doesn't need research to prove this simple concept.

 

I was not the one who made claims that my perspective was "the majority" perspective and that any other perspective was fringe. I stated quite clearly that my perspective was based on my own personal experience and what I have observed from other similar situations I'm closely acquainted with.

 

Nice try, albeit completely irrelevant.

[cocorico]

Ahhh...so when you don't have a real basis to pick apart the content of my posts, you want to resort to knit-picking the use of a word..."many".

 

Please...stop trying to waste either of our time with games like this, and let's try to stay on topic?

 

You claimed something was " the majority", and I asked for the basis of that claim. I don't believe everything I get told; if someone claims so,etching to be fact, but is unwilling or unable to back that up, them they cannot be upset if those claims are challenged.

[2sure]

Where do all of the people exist where affairs are so much the norm and openly discussed? I am confused..

 

Just on the internet as far as I can tell. Some anonymous country, culture, planet that embraces betrayal and scorns most BS. Same place where all opinions and life experiences are graphed and statistically proven.

[MissBee]

I was not the one who made claims that my perspective was "the majority" perspective and that any other perspective was fringe. I stated quite clearly that my perspective was based on my own personal experience and what I have observed from other similar situations I'm closely acquainted with.

 

Nice try, albeit completely irrelevant.

 

 

You yourself have been guilty on tens of accounts of the same thing, presenting a certain viewpoint as the majority or standard- but with even more bizarre claims that most people cannot relate to. And when asked, just to even name your culture, so we can have a solid reference point, you evade. The onus is on the person whose experience is always so different, to the point of being the diametric opposite, from what most people know to be normal to prove it. Therefore, until you do as you wish others would, i.e. also back up your overblown claims of what is the norm/majority re affairs, with some type of research citing it, or even just a name of a culture so that we can conduct our own research on your claims, you really have no leg to stand on in asking that of others...so I'd say the same to you, nice try!

Edited July 25, 2013 by MissBee

[William]

As relevant to:

 

"We expect that all participants will respond to posts in their specific context, not to the person who has posted. While opinions may be formed of various members based on what they have posted in the past, any response to any particular submission should be grounded in what has been posted in that thread. Past disagreements should not be resurrected in new threads. It is important that criticism be directed at what is stated in a post ("I don't like your idea") rather than at the individual making the statement ("I don't like you")."

 

We'll close this for some review. Thanks!