Do you think MM/MW would cheat on you if you were in the same boat as the BS?

[HopingAgain]

I imagine it's much more like a reconciling couple, than a "new" couple. There is already a R history. Promises have already been made in the past, dreams shared, souls fused. Promises have either been kept or broken, patterns established, roles assumed. It is not a new R. It is a R that has to transition from circumstances that constrained aspects, to choices about how to transact in future. Hurts, disappointments or heartaches, where they exist, have to be overcome and trust established where it was broken (or not built in the first place). Both parties have to invest and commit and do ARs work, just like a R couple, if they want their R to be sustained long term.

 

It's not as simple as swapping partners and expecting everything to be rosy.

 

It is NOTHING like a reconciling couple, a couple who is reconciling, at least at one point had a relationship that had a honest foundation and beginning. A couple formed from an affair does not have a foundation built on honesty and transparency, the very nature of the relationship is built on deceiving someone else.

[Silly_Girl]

It is NOTHING like a reconciling couple, a couple who is reconciling, at least at one point had a relationship that had a honest foundation and beginning. A couple formed from an affair does not have a foundation built on honesty and transparency, the very nature of the relationship is built on deceiving someone else.

 

There may well be honesty and transparency between the APs. The rest is about moral judgement, not the validity of the relationship.

[HopingAgain]

I have to throw my 2 cents worth in, from what I've read most bs think that once a cheater always a cheater. Well if that's the case then there is no chance in hell you can have a successful R if you have the mindset , once a cheater always a cheater.

 

It's not "Once a cheater always a cheater" that BSs believe...it's are you remorseful for the cheating, what have you learned about the reasons WHY you cheated, and what have you/can you change about yourself? I have news for you, if a MM or MW doesn't feel remorse and regret for cheating...no matter how bad the BS was or is, and no matter how much they love the AP, they will be very likely to do it again, even if they leave to be with the AP. It's a character issue.

[HopingAgain]

There may well be honesty and transparency between the APs. The rest is about moral judgement, not the validity of the relationship.

 

A relationship built on a foundation of dishonesty, even if its dishonesty to OTHERS in order to be together...is going to have to be rebuilt from the ground up, with both parties changing their ways and their willingness to participate in such behavior.

[Betterthanthis13]

I'm not with that guy. But we were together and exclusive and I didn't worry he was going to cheat. Well, no more than I would have done with any bloke.

 

Ok no worries I just didn't want you to think I was picking on you or your relationship.

 

Do you think my idea is valid in general? That a guy who justifies his past cheating is more likely to cheat in the future, regardless of circumstances, than one who views his cheating as a bad choice he made?

[Silly_Girl]

Ok no worries I just didn't want you to think I was picking on you or your relationship.

 

Do you think my idea is valid in general? That a guy who justifies his past cheating is more likely to cheat in the future, regardless of circumstances, than one who views his cheating as a bad choice he made?

 

I'm not on board with your use of 'justifies' so won't comment.

[Betterthanthis13]

I'm not on board with your use of 'justifies' so won't comment.

 

Ok- if you think I'm totally in the wrong I don't mind hearing why- I'm not looking for a battle, I just want to understand other points of view on this topic. I personally feel very strongly about this, but I know a LOT of people disagree with me, and I am trying to understand the reasons why.

 

If you don't want to that's fine, maybe someone else can point out what they see wrong with my theory.

[Silly_Girl]

A relationship built on a foundation of dishonesty, even if its dishonesty to OTHERS in order to be together...is going to have to be rebuilt from the ground up, with both parties changing their ways and their willingness to participate in such behavior.

 

Once the decision to reconcile or not has been taken I don't see huge differences between the post-A relationship of AP's or married couple. There'd need to be a lot of introspection and communication and effort, in a relationship where one person (or both) has shown they have capacity to be unfaithful.

[So happy together]

It is NOTHING like a reconciling couple, a couple who is reconciling, at least at one point had a relationship that had a honest foundation and beginning. A couple formed from an affair does not have a foundation built on honesty and transparency, the very nature of the relationship is built on deceiving someone else.

 

This statement is ridiculously false. My R with my bf was ALWAYS completely open, honest, there isn't anything we don't talk about. When he is upset, it's me he comes to. When he is happy, it's me again. Sad? Excited? Hopeful? disgusted? Fearful? Joyful? All me. All the time. We never really even hid our R. She was just too blind to see. I would wager my bf is more open with me than most R that began 'honestly'... which I also take offense to.

[2sure]

I'm not someone who believes once a cheater always a cheater, I'm positive people can and do change .

 

But I would instinctively question the relationship made up of two people who have become so comfortable and adept at infidelity. If cheating was their problem solver... That's a red flag.

 

I'm not saying its out of the question. But I would have to see that the person changed, not just their environment.

[Silly_Girl]

Ok- if you think I'm totally in the wrong I don't mind hearing why- I'm not looking for a battle, I just want to understand other points of view on this topic. I personally feel very strongly about this, but I know a LOT of people disagree with me, and I am trying to understand the reasons why.

 

If you don't want to that's fine, maybe someone else can point out what they see wrong with my theory.

 

I didn't say you were totally in the wrong!

 

I think that it's grey-er than you state. And the circumstances dictates how remorseful/not one might/should be. I *totally* get why xMM felt the need to cheat. I don't think he should feel very guilty, but should be prepared to employ different relationship skills in the future to prevent the same set of circumstances occurring.

[So happy together]

Why is it beyond the scope of imagination that a person was just so freakin' miserable that they had an indiscretion, made it right and it's fine now? It must have happened to someone at some point in time.

[Silly_Girl]

I'm not someone who believes once a cheater always a cheater, I'm positive people can and do change .

 

But I would instinctively question the relationship made up of two people who have become so comfortable and adept at infidelity. If cheating was their problem solver... That's a red flag.

 

I'm not saying its out of the question. But I would have to see that the person changed, not just their environment.

 

Absolutely. It needs to be about coping better/differently, otherwise you're just expecting the other person to carry the relationship and 'make' you happy, and we all know that doesn't work.

[Betterthanthis13]

Once the decision to reconcile or not has been taken I don't see huge differences between the post-A relationship of AP's or married couple. There'd need to be a lot of introspection and communication and effort, in a relationship where one person (or both) has shown they have capacity to be unfaithful.

 

I agree with this. No huge difference.

 

There is a difference in that a BS and WS would (in theory, anyway) be re-establishing a broken trust that was at one time built on the premise that neither was a cheater, where AP's are starting from scratch building trust fully aware that one has cheated and the other one facilitated the cheating.

 

Does not make either scenario better or worse than the other, just a bit different. It could be argued that the AP's are at least starting from a point of full disclosure and that is not a bad thing. Assuming OW/OM knew from the beginning of the A that WS was married.

[canuckprincess]

It's not "Once a cheater always a cheater" that BSs believe...it's are you remorseful for the cheating, what have you learned about the reasons WHY you cheated, and what have you/can you change about yourself? I have news for you, if a MM or MW doesn't feel remorse and regret for cheating...no matter how bad the BS was or is, and no matter how much they love the AP, they will be very likely to do it again, even if they leave to be with the AP. It's a character issue.

 

Is it possible for a ws to be remorseful yet continue with the ap? I know some feel guilt for hurting their spouse but not guilty enough to end the affair.

[So happy together]

Is it possible for a ws to be remorseful yet continue with the ap? I know some feel guilt for hurting their spouse but not guilty enough to end the affair.

 

This happened with us. He is over the guilt now and has grown by leaps and bounds.

[Silly_Girl]

Is it possible for a ws to be remorseful yet continue with the ap? I know some feel guilt for hurting their spouse but not guilty enough to end the affair.

 

I think that happens a lot.

[coffee]

Do you think your MM/MW would cheat on you if your relationship was in the same boat as their relationship with the BS is (i.e. sexless, loveless, like roommates, staying because of obligations, etc.)?

 

If yes, why? Would you try to prevent cheating from occurring? Do you think MM/MW would ultimately choose to stay with you over ending the relationship?

 

If not, why? How is your relationship with MM/MW different from their relationship with the BS?

 

Replies from former APs and BSs also welcome.

 

 

Well, of course he would! Everything was based on lies. The affair was a lie, he had made his marriage into a lie, he was a cheater, he knew I condoned cheating or I wouldn't be cheating with him. Why would he not cheat should be the question? I finally ended the madness and moved on.

[2sure]

Is it possible for a ws to be remorseful yet continue with the ap? I know some feel guilt for hurting their spouse but not guilty enough to end the affair.

 

 

I don't know your circumstances very well, but I'm going to jump in here because I'm seeing a great big waving red banner that I think maybe you aren't.

 

Someone who is sincerely guilty and remorseful makes big life changes inside and out. Someone who feels guilty but continues to hurt others....that's like Gratuitous Guilt. They know they should feel bad but don't, they acknowledge they are hurting others but don't care enough to make changes, or they feel a little bad but are more interested in what makes them happy.

 

Also, kind of lazy isn't it? It's like saying one thing but doing another. As if the words were enough.

[Silly_Girl]

I don't know your circumstances very well, but I'm going to jump in here because I'm seeing a great big waving red banner that I think maybe you aren't.

 

Someone who is sincerely guilty and remorseful makes big life changes inside and out. Someone who feels guilty but continues to hurt others....that's like Gratuitous Guilt. They know they should feel bad but don't, they acknowledge they are hurting others but don't care enough to make changes, or they feel a little bad but are more interested in what makes them happy.

 

Also, kind of lazy isn't it? It's like saying one thing but doing another. As if the words were enough.

 

Hhmmm. But if it's part of a journey... That's where it starts, no? Then it could go one of several ways. I think the context is relevant here

[Betterthanthis13]

I didn't say you were totally in the wrong!

 

I think that it's grey-er than you state. And the circumstances dictates how remorseful/not one might/should be. I *totally* get why xMM felt the need to cheat. I don't think he should feel very guilty, but should be prepared to employ different relationship skills in the future to prevent the same set of circumstances occurring.

 

So maybe "justifier" is too harsh of a term then...

 

I understand there are a lot of reasons a person can feel the need to cheat- BS's are not always innocent victims and WS's terrible villains, there are tons of rotten circumstances people find themselves in that could cause a person to *want* to cheat.

 

I just see a difference between being miserable and wanting to cheat, and making the choice to actually do it.

 

There is a lot of gray area, people are complicated, and when emotions get mixed in everything is more complex.

 

My life would probably be easier and I would sleep better at night if I could let go of my theory, but I have not been able to find a way to disprove my logic yet.

 

Maybe the answer is that people are just not logical and there is no answer- I should just accept that cheating happens and there is no rhyme or reason to it- just be a good person, be really loving to your spouse and hope for the best. Didn't work out so great for me last time but... maybe it is all just random luck and I drew the short stick. Better luck next time, betterthanthis

[Baby123]

Well, of course he would! Everything was based on lies. The affair was a lie, he had made his marriage into a lie, he was a cheater, he knew I condoned cheating or I wouldn't be cheating with him. Why would he not cheat should be the question? I finally ended the madness and moved on.

 

So you became exclusive but how you started out undermined your relationship?

[Got it]

It is NOTHING like a reconciling couple, a couple who is reconciling, at least at one point had a relationship that had a honest foundation and beginning. A couple formed from an affair does not have a foundation built on honesty and transparency, the very nature of the relationship is built on deceiving someone else.

 

This is incorrect. The relationship between the two parties absolutely can have honesty and transparency. There may be deception of a third party but that does not mean that the relationship between the two has it.

 

I may have lied or lied by omission with my ex. That does not mean that I lied to my AP. I was actually brutally honest with him and was and have been very transparent.

 

The two relationships were completely different ones and the way I conducted myself was different with each man.

[MissBee]

I'm not someone who believes once a cheater always a cheater, I'm positive people can and do change .

 

But I would instinctively question the relationship made up of two people who have become so comfortable and adept at infidelity. If cheating was their problem solver... That's a red flag.

I'm not saying its out of the question. But I would have to see that the person changed, not just their environment.

 

Ditto...that's what it comes down to. Not just a change of partners and scenery, but have YOU changed.

 

The thing I worried about with my exAP was that he never seemed conflicted at all or seemed to register that what he was doing was problematic, and if he never felt it was, then he would have no reason to change or do things differently, if he felt nothing was wrong with what he did. I therefore have no reason to believe he wouldn't do it again if the opportunity presented itself. I can be hopeful he wouldn't, but the evidence doesn't point to it.

[So happy together]

Ditto...that's what it comes down to. Not just a change of partners and scenery, but have YOU changed.

 

The thing I worried about with my exAP was that he never seemed conflicted at all or seemed to register that what he was doing was problematic, and if he never felt it was, then he would have no reason to change or do things differently, if he felt nothing was wrong with what he did. I therefore have no reason to believe he wouldn't do it again if the opportunity presented itself. I can be hopeful he wouldn't, but the evidence doesn't point to it.

 

Miss Bee,

 

Is your xmm still with his BS? I'm sorry, I don't know your bckground very well...