Re: A girlfriend approving of her boyfriend's desire for sex outside the relationship

[Tony T]

Well, Dan, this girl probably doesn't need you either. She probably wants a guy who likes the truth and doesn't go bonkers when he gets it.

 

She probably wants a guy who is understanding. The right guy for her will understand that she began her previous relationship at age 16 as a young, immature, teenybopper just finding her way in the world.

 

She probably wants a guy who is open minded enough to understand she probably doesn't mean what she said quite the way you took it.

 

She most likely would want a guy to understand that in the past her self esteem was so low that she would tolerate this kind of behavior in her boyfriend because she thought she loved him so much and that putting up with his extra- curricular activities was the only way to keep him.

 

She probably wants a guy who can understand that her previous relationship was probably not a very good one, probably pretty superficial and she probably didn't care enough about the guy to care whether he slept with other girls or not. She wants a guy who knows if she is with someone she really loves and cares about, there is no way she'll tolerate disloyalty of that kind.

 

My bet is she wants a guy to try to understand her past, the way she was brought up. Chances are pretty good that her mother put up with her father's cheating and she got some pretty serious notions about relationships from watching something like that happen. Maybe she watched this happen to other members of her family. You can absolutely bet that parental factors entered into this in a big way and now that she is her own person, she has to forge new ideas into her life.

 

She's probably looking for a guy who won't be so judgemental of her past, pasticularly when she is honest. She certainly doesn't want a guy she's got to lie to about certain things to keep him around LIKE MOST PEOPLE DO!!!

 

She may even want a guy who is a cut above the rest in intelligence who knows something about psychology. In psychology, there are principles called Unconscious Defence Mechanisms. These are things people do subconsciously to avoid psychological pain. One of them is called "reaction formation." You can look it up on the Internet or in any first year psychology book. Basically, the concept of reaction formation suggests a person sometimes reacts to an event in the opposite way from the way they really feel to minimize adverse emotional reactions. Her approval of her boyfriend's cheating was most likely a reaction formation, since that would be the most incredibly painful thing a girl could face in a relationship...and she probably had an extremely painful childhood.

 

An example of reaction formation that you may be able to understand better would be if, say, your best male friend...who was not dating anyone...had to go to a formal occasion and couldn't find a date. He asks you as a favor if he can take your girlfriend to this formal event because he doesn't want to look wierd by going unescorted. You know your friend well, you know how he is with girls, but you say OK because you are his friend. You really don't want him to be alone with your girl at all, you even hate the idea...but you said YES. Your behavior was the opposite of what you really felt.

 

Now, this girl had some extremely lengthy conversations with you that you enjoyed so very much. My bet is that this girl wants a guy who understands that if he talks to anybody on the planet for hours and hours, yes...even the Pope...he's bound to find something about that person he disapproves of...but that won't screw up the relationship.

 

I'm sure this girl wants someone who is fair-minded and doesn't jump to conclusions...someone who respects her judgement and considers her age when the judgement was made and all the other background mentioned above. She wants somebody to understand that just because she says something doesn't necessarily mean she would follow through at this point in her life. She may even have been seeing if you were sharp enough to notice she was testing you, wanting to see your reaction...to see if YOU could have the characteristics of a cheater. She would know instantly by your reaction to her statement. Pretty smart gal!!!

 

Well, Dan...I like this girl. She's really honest. She is really sincere. She obviously is a great conversationalist because she could talk to a guy like you for hours and hours with only one strike. Hell, they can't go a few minutes in baseball or football without a strike or a penalty.

 

Yeah, Dan, toss her away. Write her off. Because I don't think she would want to see you anymore due to YOUR thinking. This girl is a gem and deserves a mature, understanding man who won't judge her past in such a brutal fashion.

 

Dan, there are so many guys who will love this girl more than life itself. I am behind you 100 percent. Tell her to get lost. That will be the greatest Holiday present she could ever receive.

 

I hope I run into her sometime. Tell her I said HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

[Deejette]

It's not like this girl was the one who was fooling around on her boyfriend. But even then, if she was honest enough to tell you that, then she is someone you could trust to tell you the truth about herself.

 

People who are truthful are a rare treasure. Sometimes dates are like job interviews and the dater is looking for that one statement that will disqualify their date from "the job." If a person is truthful about their past, it doesn't mean that they are inclined to keep repeating it.

Well, Dan, this girl probably doesn't need you either. She probably wants a guy who likes the truth and doesn't go bonkers when he gets it. She probably wants a guy who is understanding. The right guy for her will understand that she began her previous relationship at age 16 as a young, immature, teenybopper just finding her way in the world. She probably wants a guy who is open minded enough to understand she probably doesn't mean what she said quite the way you took it. She most likely would want a guy to understand that in the past her self esteem was so low that she would tolerate this kind of behavior in her boyfriend because she thought she loved him so much and that putting up with his extra- curricular activities was the only way to keep him. She probably wants a guy who can understand that her previous relationship was probably not a very good one, probably pretty superficial and she probably didn't care enough about the guy to care whether he slept with other girls or not. She wants a guy who knows if she is with someone she really loves and cares about, there is no way she'll tolerate disloyalty of that kind. My bet is she wants a guy to try to understand her past, the way she was brought up. Chances are pretty good that her mother put up with her father's cheating and she got some pretty serious notions about relationships from watching something like that happen. Maybe she watched this happen to other members of her family. You can absolutely bet that parental factors entered into this in a big way and now that she is her own person, she has to forge new ideas into her life. She's probably looking for a guy who won't be so judgemental of her past, pasticularly when she is honest. She certainly doesn't want a guy she's got to lie to about certain things to keep him around LIKE MOST PEOPLE DO!!! She may even want a guy who is a cut above the rest in intelligence who knows something about psychology. In psychology, there are principles called Unconscious Defence Mechanisms. These are things people do subconsciously to avoid psychological pain. One of them is called "reaction formation." You can look it up on the Internet or in any first year psychology book. Basically, the concept of reaction formation suggests a person sometimes reacts to an event in the opposite way from the way they really feel to minimize adverse emotional reactions. Her approval of her boyfriend's cheating was most likely a reaction formation, since that would be the most incredibly painful thing a girl could face in a relationship...and she probably had an extremely painful childhood. An example of reaction formation that you may be able to understand better would be if, say, your best male friend...who was not dating anyone...had to go to a formal occasion and couldn't find a date. He asks you as a favor if he can take your girlfriend to this formal event because he doesn't want to look wierd by going unescorted. You know your friend well, you know how he is with girls, but you say OK because you are his friend. You really don't want him to be alone with your girl at all, you even hate the idea...but you said YES. Your behavior was the opposite of what you really felt. Now, this girl had some extremely lengthy conversations with you that you enjoyed so very much. My bet is that this girl wants a guy who understands that if he talks to anybody on the planet for hours and hours, yes...even the Pope...he's bound to find something about that person he disapproves of...but that won't screw up the relationship.

 

I'm sure this girl wants someone who is fair-minded and doesn't jump to conclusions...someone who respects her judgement and considers her age when the judgement was made and all the other background mentioned above. She wants somebody to understand that just because she says something doesn't necessarily mean she would follow through at this point in her life. She may even have been seeing if you were sharp enough to notice she was testing you, wanting to see your reaction...to see if YOU could have the characteristics of a cheater. She would know instantly by your reaction to her statement. Pretty smart gal!!! Well, Dan...I like this girl. She's really honest. She is really sincere. She obviously is a great conversationalist because she could talk to a guy like you for hours and hours with only one strike. Hell, they can't go a few minutes in baseball or football without a strike or a penalty. Yeah, Dan, toss her away. Write her off. Because I don't think she would want to see you anymore due to YOUR thinking. This girl is a gem and deserves a mature, understanding man who won't judge her past in such a brutal fashion. Dan, there are so many guys who will love this girl more than life itself. I am behind you 100 percent. Tell her to get lost. That will be the greatest Holiday present she could ever receive.

 

I hope I run into her sometime. Tell her I said HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

[betty]

Did you ever think that maybe she does this because she wants to allow him to get it out of his system before she marry that person.

 

Some people actually live there lives this way. Maybe it's just not for you, this type of relationship.

 

It's kind of twisted because once you let a person get away with an act it's kind of hard to let go. so allowing him to do this in the begining may result in him not wanting to stop if and when the marriage occurs.

 

It's also up to that individual if the want to take the choice or not.

[Dan]

Tony, may be I didn't make it so clear in my letter above, but here it goes.

 

She actually feels that it's acceptable for a boyfriend to have sex outside their relationship even NOW--not just 3 or 5 years ago. She basically said she expects it to happen and rather know about it from him than finding it out by herself. She also thinks that no guy will be faithful at all (even after marriage). She can't believe a guy if he says that he's not having sex with someone else. I do definitely believe that this is due to her family life...

 

I wouldn't say that I went "bonkers" over this news, but it was more than surprising. Are you saying that I should open my mind more instead of thinking that this is bad? I just imagine that most boyfriends who are not fooling around would want their girlfriends to have trust in them of not doing these things.

 

Well, Dan, this girl probably doesn't need you either. She probably wants a guy who likes the truth and doesn't go bonkers when he gets it. She probably wants a guy who is understanding. The right guy for her will understand that she began her previous relationship at age 16 as a young, immature, teenybopper just finding her way in the world. She probably wants a guy who is open minded enough to understand she probably doesn't mean what she said quite the way you took it. She most likely would want a guy to understand that in the past her self esteem was so low that she would tolerate this kind of behavior in her boyfriend because she thought she loved him so much and that putting up with his extra- curricular activities was the only way to keep him. She probably wants a guy who can understand that her previous relationship was probably not a very good one, probably pretty superficial and she probably didn't care enough about the guy to care whether he slept with other girls or not. She wants a guy who knows if she is with someone she really loves and cares about, there is no way she'll tolerate disloyalty of that kind. My bet is she wants a guy to try to understand her past, the way she was brought up. Chances are pretty good that her mother put up with her father's cheating and she got some pretty serious notions about relationships from watching something like that happen. Maybe she watched this happen to other members of her family. You can absolutely bet that parental factors entered into this in a big way and now that she is her own person, she has to forge new ideas into her life. She's probably looking for a guy who won't be so judgemental of her past, pasticularly when she is honest. She certainly doesn't want a guy she's got to lie to about certain things to keep him around LIKE MOST PEOPLE DO!!! She may even want a guy who is a cut above the rest in intelligence who knows something about psychology. In psychology, there are principles called Unconscious Defence Mechanisms. These are things people do subconsciously to avoid psychological pain. One of them is called "reaction formation." You can look it up on the Internet or in any first year psychology book. Basically, the concept of reaction formation suggests a person sometimes reacts to an event in the opposite way from the way they really feel to minimize adverse emotional reactions. Her approval of her boyfriend's cheating was most likely a reaction formation, since that would be the most incredibly painful thing a girl could face in a relationship...and she probably had an extremely painful childhood. An example of reaction formation that you may be able to understand better would be if, say, your best male friend...who was not dating anyone...had to go to a formal occasion and couldn't find a date. He asks you as a favor if he can take your girlfriend to this formal event because he doesn't want to look wierd by going unescorted. You know your friend well, you know how he is with girls, but you say OK because you are his friend. You really don't want him to be alone with your girl at all, you even hate the idea...but you said YES. Your behavior was the opposite of what you really felt. Now, this girl had some extremely lengthy conversations with you that you enjoyed so very much. My bet is that this girl wants a guy who understands that if he talks to anybody on the planet for hours and hours, yes...even the Pope...he's bound to find something about that person he disapproves of...but that won't screw up the relationship.

 

I'm sure this girl wants someone who is fair-minded and doesn't jump to conclusions...someone who respects her judgement and considers her age when the judgement was made and all the other background mentioned above. She wants somebody to understand that just because she says something doesn't necessarily mean she would follow through at this point in her life. She may even have been seeing if you were sharp enough to notice she was testing you, wanting to see your reaction...to see if YOU could have the characteristics of a cheater. She would know instantly by your reaction to her statement. Pretty smart gal!!! Well, Dan...I like this girl. She's really honest. She is really sincere. She obviously is a great conversationalist because she could talk to a guy like you for hours and hours with only one strike. Hell, they can't go a few minutes in baseball or football without a strike or a penalty. Yeah, Dan, toss her away. Write her off. Because I don't think she would want to see you anymore due to YOUR thinking. This girl is a gem and deserves a mature, understanding man who won't judge her past in such a brutal fashion. Dan, there are so many guys who will love this girl more than life itself. I am behind you 100 percent. Tell her to get lost. That will be the greatest Holiday present she could ever receive.

 

I hope I run into her sometime. Tell her I said HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!

[Tony T]

What you have encountered here is a girl who is rather genius.

 

First, she understands basic child psychology. If you permit a child to do something inherently wrong, the child will not do it...but if you strictly forbid something, the child will venture out.

 

The same holds true for adults. This lady understands if she creates an environment where the man feels free to go out and have sex with other women, it is likely he will not do this because this permission eliminates a great deal of the excitement that is created by infidelity. More than half of what people get out of cheating is the excitement over the possibility of getting caught.

 

By giving a guy permission to cheat, she automatically gives up the necessity to trust them on this issue. That's pretty good too because it relieves her from using a lot of energy that would better be used elsewhere.

 

Now, you have still not learned that women test you. She very well may not feel this way at all...as a matter of fact I'm sure she doesn't. She was looking for your reaction and your intellectual interpretation of what she was saying. She is way over your intellectual level. You need to open your mind a little more.

 

In relationships, demanding or expecting anything is not good. To expect her to trust you is insane. To work for that trust and eventually get it is where you want to be. Demanding and expecting anything will get you nowhere in human relationships.

 

As far as your judgement of her statement, I don't think it is wise to think it is good or bad. It is not your job to judge her statements. Take it what she says and just accept it as either her true feelings or the possiblity she is testing you. Either way, I would say that if she commits to being loyal and not cheating on her guy...but gives her guy permission to have sex with others...you shouldn't have to worry. As a matter of fact, it is pure genius on her part.

 

She is pretty correct. A large number of men cheat, at least sometimes, if given the opportunity. However, the likelihood of a man cheating is significantly reduced if his girlfriend or spouse has given permission.

 

You ought to explore this relationship further. You are making way too big a deal of this. If you don't drop her, the whole thing may evaporate if you continue to get along well and the relationship evolves.

 

To write someone off that you get along with so well because of any they have opinion is wrong. She is entitled to feel the way she feels. Of course, if she thinks murder is OK, that would be an exception. You have got to become a lot more elastic in your thinking and understand that humans are a lot more complex than their words. The greatest part of human communication is NON-VERBAL. So pay attention to her expressions and her actions more than her words.

 

You got a good thing going here...let me tell you. And, as I said, if she finds someone she truly loves she would probably shoot them if they strayed. Take my word for it.

[Dan]

Okay, I got what you said...now for some more info that she had mentioned to me when we discussed it on that day that may help your analysis.

 

She did mention that her past boyfriend wanted to have sex outside the relationship so she let him. He did it sometimes, but at other times he did not because he felt guilty. However at one time he wanted to do a three-some (I couldn't believe that she told me this-on the second day of meeting her). Basically he was having sex with another woman in front of her. She said that she hated it when she saw this and refused to take part. She said that it was really sad to see, but would continue to let this boyfriend have sex with other girls without her, of course.

 

I think that the boyfriend was able to manipulate her to believe that such actions would be okay. However, I do think your point of giving permission did make him less inclined to be more sexually active outside their relationship.

 

Do you think that it's possible that she was making the whole thing up to test me for my reaction or what? Anyhow, she did say that she rather have a guy who would have sex outside their relationship if it was just sex and not a seperate relationship. So it would be a one time thing and that's it.

 

Please give me your further input...Thanks again..And that's the finishing touches of what the whole topic covered..

 

What you have encountered here is a girl who is rather genius. First, she understands basic child psychology. If you permit a child to do something inherently wrong, the child will not do it...but if you strictly forbid something, the child will venture out.

 

The same holds true for adults. This lady understands if she creates an environment where the man feels free to go out and have sex with other women, it is likely he will not do this because this permission eliminates a great deal of the excitement that is created by infidelity. More than half of what people get out of cheating is the excitement over the possibility of getting caught. By giving a guy permission to cheat, she automatically gives up the necessity to trust them on this issue. That's pretty good too because it relieves her from using a lot of energy that would better be used elsewhere. Now, you have still not learned that women test you. She very well may not feel this way at all...as a matter of fact I'm sure she doesn't. She was looking for your reaction and your intellectual interpretation of what she was saying. She is way over your intellectual level. You need to open your mind a little more. In relationships, demanding or expecting anything is not good. To expect her to trust you is insane. To work for that trust and eventually get it is where you want to be. Demanding and expecting anything will get you nowhere in human relationships. As far as your judgement of her statement, I don't think it is wise to think it is good or bad. It is not your job to judge her statements. Take it what she says and just accept it as either her true feelings or the possiblity she is testing you. Either way, I would say that if she commits to being loyal and not cheating on her guy...but gives her guy permission to have sex with others...you shouldn't have to worry. As a matter of fact, it is pure genius on her part. She is pretty correct. A large number of men cheat, at least sometimes, if given the opportunity. However, the likelihood of a man cheating is significantly reduced if his girlfriend or spouse has given permission. You ought to explore this relationship further. You are making way too big a deal of this. If you don't drop her, the whole thing may evaporate if you continue to get along well and the relationship evolves. To write someone off that you get along with so well because of any they have opinion is wrong. She is entitled to feel the way she feels. Of course, if she thinks murder is OK, that would be an exception. You have got to become a lot more elastic in your thinking and understand that humans are a lot more complex than their words. The greatest part of human communication is NON-VERBAL. So pay attention to her expressions and her actions more than her words. You got a good thing going here...let me tell you. And, as I said, if she finds someone she truly loves she would probably shoot them if they strayed. Take my word for it.

[Tony T]

To watch while her boyfriend had sex with another girl shows she either has extremely low self esteem, she is sick, she has mental problems, or she really didn't care much about this guy. I think her self esteem is moderately low and she didn't care about this guy much at all. People with low self esteem will stay with whatever person will have them and put up with whatever they have to put up with in order to keep them.

 

It is very possible she could have been making this up. I just can't imagine why she would tell you this during your initial conversations unless she was trying to get your reaction. It is pretty bizarre. There are not many women in the world who would stand by and watch their guy have sex with another girl, alhtough I do know they exist because I've seen personal ads for this kind of thing.

 

My previous posts stand on the rest of this matter. While, according to you she says she would rather have a guy who has sex outside the relationship, I do not think that is true. I am sure she longs for a relationship that is mutually faithful and respectful.

 

If you do talk to her again, I think it is very important that you explain your thoughts and concerns about her position in this regard and get feedback from her. Let her know that a girl who would allow her guy to have sex outside the relationship troubles you...and see what her reaction is. She is obviously a very good conversationalist and is very open so you would get a good answer to your concerns. It sounds like she is a person worth exploring just a bit more.

 

Also, ask her if she expects a guy to allow her to have sex outside a relationship. If her answer is yes, you know what to do. Ask her how she feels about cheating in general. Ask her if she thinks she can be completely faithful in a relationship. That's really all that counts.

 

If after talking to her and evaluating all her answers you are still troubled by this, move on. Your chances of finding someone as open, honest, and forthright as her who allows her guys to have sex on the side are about the same as your getting struck by lightening.

 

I think what she allows guys in her life to do is really immaterial. It's how she conducts HERSELF that you should be concerned about.

[Dan]

Thanks Tony for your input...

 

Just to add a bit (again). First of all, this boyfriend that she had died in a car accident 2 years ago. He was driving in a car behind her quite fast. The road was three lanes which was turning into one. Apparently he hadn't traveled on this road before and skidded off the road and turned over. She saw what happened and blames herself for his death...Anyhow, the place that I met her is in this real nice shopping plaza which he used to love to go to. She likes to go to this plaza even now when she remembers him. In this month of December alone, she's been there sixteen times! His death was two years ago and I know that two years is a short time to get over someone in this manner. I think that it's entirely possible that she torments herself because of his death.

 

At that time of his death they had actually broken up a short time earlier. He was very worried about their relationship and called her all the time. She was meeting another guy at school, but said that they were just friends. Well, I guess he couldn't take the fact that she was spending time away from him more and more. Because of his reaction she said it would be better to break up. I did find out that she had sex with this other guy once and only once as she stated. And after that she felt that she couldn't meet this other guy.

 

My guess might be that she is looking for some guy who is similiar to this ex-boyfriend. I definitely agree that when she mentioned about him and having sex with others was a way to test me, no doubt about it.

 

It's funny I got this e-mail from her saying that she was so happy that she has met a "good friend". Well, that might sum up our relationship and may be it's better that way. Although, we had a good time together, it might just be right that she needs someone willing to do the same things as her previous boyfriend. Or does she need a listening ear?

 

I do find myself thinking about her since it's great to talk with her. I didn't call her yesterday, but did so today. She was surprised that I wanted to meet her again, but said that she had to go. And now, getting on the computer I found that she had sent me a e-mail greeting a few hours ago. Well, I just think that it seems as she wants to be friends and this, under the circumstances, just might be the best bet.

 

To answer one of your questions. She said that she doesn't like to have sex with other guys. If it's not love then she won't do it. However, she did say that she may change in the future.. Hmmm...Not the best sign.

 

I've never met someone like her before. Definitely strange. I don't know why we click so much with other topics except this one.

 

About her family: Her father and mother are divorced. They live in separate countries. This girl lives with her uncle and grandmother. So, I imagine that the divorce was hard and affected her greatly. She may have more problems than what's written above-I don't know. And I don't know if I should feel bad or just mystified.

 

I have such a good time with her and wow....it's hard to believe that she has these thoughts and even says these things.

 

What do you think? Thanks so much again.

 

To watch while her boyfriend had sex with another girl shows she either has extremely low self esteem, she is sick, she has mental problems, or she really didn't care much about this guy. I think her self esteem is moderately low and she didn't care about this guy much at all. People with low self esteem will stay with whatever person will have them and put up with whatever they have to put up with in order to keep them. It is very possible she could have been making this up. I just can't imagine why she would tell you this during your initial conversations unless she was trying to get your reaction. It is pretty bizarre. There are not many women in the world who would stand by and watch their guy have sex with another girl, alhtough I do know they exist because I've seen personal ads for this kind of thing. My previous posts stand on the rest of this matter. While, according to you she says she would rather have a guy who has sex outside the relationship, I do not think that is true. I am sure she longs for a relationship that is mutually faithful and respectful. If you do talk to her again, I think it is very important that you explain your thoughts and concerns about her position in this regard and get feedback from her. Let her know that a girl who would allow her guy to have sex outside the relationship troubles you...and see what her reaction is. She is obviously a very good conversationalist and is very open so you would get a good answer to your concerns. It sounds like she is a person worth exploring just a bit more. Also, ask her if she expects a guy to allow her to have sex outside a relationship. If her answer is yes, you know what to do. Ask her how she feels about cheating in general. Ask her if she thinks she can be completely faithful in a relationship. That's really all that counts. If after talking to her and evaluating all her answers you are still troubled by this, move on. Your chances of finding someone as open, honest, and forthright as her who allows her guys to have sex on the side are about the same as your getting struck by lightening. I think what she allows guys in her life to do is really immaterial. It's how she conducts HERSELF that you should be concerned about.