Giving MM your heart

[MissBee]

So I've been sorting out some stuff in my financial life and am looking to start making some financial investments for my future. While I was doing that, I also ended up having a conversation with a friend of mine who was with a MM for 4 years, but they finally ended in January, she met a new guy, but she's still telling me about how she gave her heart to MM, invested a lot in him and how she feels she got nothing in return, and she wants a baby and all this, and she's 35 now, and she wasted all that time being with him, now she feels like she's rushing into things with her new guy to make up for lost time.

 

Anyway, I started thinking of my own A in the past and the idea of giving my heart to someone committed elsewhere. It was always a source of conflict for me between my rational mind and my emotions. I was strongly against total emotional investment, as it didn't seem to make sense in light of his commitment elsewhere, yet I fooled myself, because although I tried not to, I invested anyway, without even realizing how deep I was. I then started comparing emotional investments with financial ones and how if you're prudent, you really research and weigh the pros, cons, returns, risks of financial investments and how it should be the same for emotional ones, if not, more so.

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

Edited July 22, 2013 by MissBee

[tryingto]

As a former OW, I thought these were great questions and I'd give answering them a try...

 

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

-I invested everything. I was told by him that he was in the process of ending his marriage, even before he met me. I was naive. I truly believed his words. I believed we were going to be together.

 

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

-Not at first and not for a long time. Even as it became apparent that the actions were not backing up the words, I chose to believe him because I desperately wanted his promises to come true. After 3 years of "all talk, no action", I imposed a timeline/deadline and then I ended it. At that point, I had to for my own sanity.

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

-No but I should have. I should have never allowed myself to invest anything in him as long as it was an affair. That relationship has taught me so much about boundaries and respecting myself.

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

-Well.... I guess that depends on how you look at it... When I first ended the A almost 8 months ago, my answer would've been: It definitely did not work out in my favor. I was in that relationship for the long haul and was likely manipulated and lied to for a long time. Now my answer is: The ending of the relationship did work out in my favor. Even if he had left his marriage, I never would've been able to trust him. Our relationship would've never been what I deserve. So as painful as it was, the ending needed to happen. I am better without the A and him in my life. It just needed to end, so I could realize that.

[MissBee]

As a former OW, I thought these were great questions and I'd give answering them a try...

 

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

-I invested everything. I was told by him that he was in the process of ending his marriage, even before he met me. I was naive. I truly believed his words. I believed we were going to be together.

 

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

-Not at first and not for a long time. Even as it became apparent that the actions were not backing up the words, I chose to believe him because I desperately wanted his promises to come true. After 3 years of "all talk, no action", I imposed a timeline/deadline and then I ended it. At that point, I had to for my own sanity.

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

-No but I should have. I should have never allowed myself to invest anything in him as long as it was an affair. That relationship has taught me so much about boundaries and respecting myself.

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

-Well.... I guess that depends on how you look at it... When I first ended the A almost 8 months ago, my answer would've been: It definitely did not work out in my favor. I was in that relationship for the long haul and was likely manipulated and lied to for a long time. Now my answer is: The ending of the relationship did work out in my favor. Even if he had left his marriage, I never would've been able to trust him. Our relationship would've never been what I deserve. So as painful as it was, the ending needed to happen. I am better without the A and him in my life. It just needed to end, so I could realize that.

 

Thanks so much for your thoughtful responses. I relate to much of the bold.

 

I think boundaries and being thoughtful about your emotional investment is important in all relationships and dating. If I have daughters, that's definitely something I want to share with them as they start liking guys and dating. Not every guy is a good investment, no matter how cute or sweet. My own mother basically invested in a serial cheater and built a life with him and will stick it through for the long haul, even though it is far from ideal or even healthy. When I asked about the forethought which went into it, there was pretty much none, no heeding of red flags, nothing, just simply going off of romance.

 

With my exAP, I was conscious of not investing too much, I dated others, I decided not to be exclusive or give him all the privileges a single bf would get, and stuck to it in order to maintain some of my own power...but unfortunately, it's all or nothing, and I couldn't have a relationship with him without investing emotionally. I maybe saved myself some amount of heartache by not flinging myself totally into it, or better yet, the stage I was at in life, I could afford to do it without it causing me to veer too much off course, unlike my friend who delayed having children in hopes of MM being her H. But I didn't totally avoid heartache. However, it was also when it ended that I realized, it wasn't the end-all-be-all. He did leave his relationship, but we both dated other people and were apart from each other, then had a chance to rekindle, and I realized it just wasn't what I deserved in so many ways....and I really needed the time, space, and new relationships to realize it.

[GettingOver]

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

I gave all my heart to him - I fell in love almost at the first sight! I could not imagine my life without him and I loved him as nobody else before

 

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

Not really, it just happened... at first I tried to have boundaries but the longer in the A, the less were left.

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

No, unfortunately not... I think I did but in real he was manipulating me big time...

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

Yes, it was worth it. First of all - we had a beautiful time. I had an amazing year. I learnt a lot from it. The break up was hard and I am still struggling but it was worth it. I am not sure that it worked in my favour, but I do not regret.

[hippetyhop]

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

 

I wasn't planning on doing so. It started as a friendship and chatting about everything and anything throughout the day. He gained my trust (which he still has) and we began the EA. At the time, I didn't think anything about it. I didn't think we would progress to the level in which we did.

 

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

 

I didn't have any specific timeline. From us talking, to the EA, to the PA was about a month. It wasn't that long.

 

I did one thing I shouldn't have (besides being in an A with a MM)--I let the ball be in his court. Biggest mistake. Until the end, I NEVER told him what my feelings were. When he dropped the "I love you", I had him say it first. It was within the first 3 months though.

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

 

I think I gave him quicker than other relationships because we were both on the same levels.

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

 

Good question. I honestly never thought about it. It kind of just progressed, and I didn't stop it.

 

Did it work in my favor? Absolutely not. I lost a dear friend, a confidant, someone whom I love and grew with emotionally, someone who made me a better person. It was a gamble I took when I ended the A.

[missy268]

I am a former OW too, the guy is no longer in my life but i sometimes read on here to see if I can help anybody in the same situation as I was as i remember what an awful feeling it was being involved with somebody who was commited.

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

My A with this guy, I never planned on getting involved with him. I remember the first time i met him. I wasn't interested in him at all. We grew closer at work and he confided in me about his relationship, which i believed was bad, and then about 18 months later, it happened unexpectdly when he was around for a coffee on a Saturday afternoon.

 

At the time i remember thinking as long as i had him and he was in my life i would put up with him going home to his partner. Now i've seen the light i can see how stupid i was for him

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

 

There were many times during our A where i gave him ultimatums....He texted me one time about going to see his ex for tea (they had split up) i was going to invite him round to mine for tea, he said he was going to hers...i ended it..for all of 3 weeks , i kept going back. He went on holiday with her and i told him to stay away until he knew what he wanted but he told me he knew it was me he wanted and he would move out after the holiday, when he didn't i gave him another deadline. I kept creating the deadlines but when they arrived, i'd create a new one. How i didn't go crazy i don't know!

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

 

Nope, i let myself go completely. I believed we were in love, he was a close friend and i trusted him and didn't think he would hurt me in anyway, i thought i was as special to him as he was me....big mistake i even thought he was the one, how crazy! As another poster said the whole relationship has taught me a lot too about respecting myself, creating boundaries and what i actually do want from a relationship...that wasn't it.

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

Not at all, It wasn't worth it, it didn't work out for us and it caused so much hurt but it taught me a lot so i guess i did come out of it with something. We went for a second time around earlier this year. He was completely single at this time as he split up with his long term partner who he was with when we had our first time around but this time he was seeing me and being intimate with me, then he ditched me in March, i took me 10 weeks to find out where he had gone, and i saw a photo on facebook of him and another girl so basically he did the same to me as he did to his ex.

 

This snapped me out of how i felt and ended our 4 year friendship, we were great friends before the A started and could hang out, and tell each other things. i do still think about him now and again, I have realised there will not be a 3rd time, I will not let him back into my life, and I have feelings for somebody new now, which is a big thing for me. I am now ready to live my life fully without him, i believe i will never see him again nor do i want to.

[Got it]

So I've been sorting out some stuff in my financial life and am looking to start making some financial investments for my future. While I was doing that, I also ended up having a conversation with a friend of mine who was with a MM for 4 years, but they finally ended in January, she met a new guy, but she's still telling me about how she gave her heart to MM, invested a lot in him and how she feels she got nothing in return, and she wants a baby and all this, and she's 35 now, and she wasted all that time being with him, now she feels like she's rushing into things with her new guy to make up for lost time.

 

Anyway, I started thinking of my own A in the past and the idea of giving my heart to someone committed elsewhere. It was always a source of conflict for me between my rational mind and my emotions. I was strongly against total emotional investment, as it didn't seem to make sense in light of his commitment elsewhere, yet I fooled myself, because although I tried not to, I invested anyway, without even realizing how deep I was. I then started comparing emotional investments with financial ones and how if you're prudent, you really research and weigh the pros, cons, returns, risks of financial investments and how it should be the same for emotional ones, if not, more so.

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

 

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

 

I did keep one foot out definitely. I did not think it was smart to invest 100% on an arrangement I gave a year timeline.

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

 

Yes, we came to an agreement on timeline, frequency, communication, etc and literally wrote it up, reviewed it and both agreed to all the pieces. I purposely did that in the beginning that when the year came up that there couldn't be any "I didn't know", "I don't remember", etc. This was in the beginning before I fully knew him and I wasn't going to allow any loopholes without honesty about changing the agreement.

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

 

Yes, he talked about how he tried to hold himself back emotionally though that changed over the months. I was all in for that year, didn't really hold back but I also knew there was an expiration date that I was going to walk if he didn't make the changes. I did say I was open to dating others and did go out. I had a hard time trying to pursue another relationship but did try and go out so I was not putting all my eggs in one basket regardless of how much I loved that basket.

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

 

I didn't fully invest in our relationship until well after the divorce and he moved back from having moved away. It was about then we got engaged. Being fully emotionally invested is not easy for me, I am a compartmentalizer by nature and so being 100% authentic and me is a very vulnerable state. So it has been a struggle for me/us but I am doing it. I have always had "one foot out" mentality in a relationship so I am leaving at the first hint of trouble. If I can predict an explosion I can minimize impact, right? So it is a control feature for me. So in this marriage I am laying myself bare and vulnerable because I need to be. I can't self protect if I want a relationship to have a fair shot.

[cocorico]

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

 

When I got involved, I was looking for some NSA hot loving. That was what I was prepared to invest, and that was what I demanded. Emotional investment was completely off the agenda. I had that all taken care of elsewhere, I wasn't looking for any more.

 

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

 

Yes. Nothing. My emotional investment (and ROI) was elsewhere.

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

 

If by "other Rs" you mean other sexual / romantic Rs then no, it was exactly the same. I kept my sex life separate from my emotional investments, which I reserved for people I planned to keep around for longer, like friends.

 

If by "other Rs" you're including friends, then yes, it - like any other sexual R - differed completely in terms of emotional investment.

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

 

I invested several years down the line, when my circumstances changed and a more traditional kind of R became conceivable to me. I allowed myself to become open to his good qualities instead of just his limitations, and I allowed the professional respect I had always had for him to allow a friendship to develop. And yes, it worked out perfectly in my favour. The outcome was perfect for everyone.

[Pierre]

MM are doing "insider trading." They learn from their frustrated W's what women want, and they use it on their mistresses. They start out on the right foot and play all their cards right. They're also better lovers than single men, for those reasons. Hard not to fall for it.

 

Married men court women way better than single men. As you said, being married is great insight.

 

Furthermore, MM have a much smaller pool to date. Most secure women pay zero attention to cheating MM.

 

 

So when a MM finds a receptive woman that does not mind the marital status he goes all out with the romance. OTOH, single men have a much larger dating pool and are not as attentive.

 

That is why cheating MM and needy women that need external validation are such a perfect fit.

[Got it]

I don't consciously invest in love, ever. All my decision making happens very early on--a lot of things turn me off at the very beginning, and I don't fall easily. But when I fall, I fall quick & hard and I do not feel like I have any control over the "investment." I don't deposit love in increments, I go all in.

 

It's easy to do with a MM because they are offering this Ponzi scheme of love. Seems too good to be true, he makes you feel like youve tapped into a secret, unearthed treasure deep within him, he makes you feel like you've changed his world. It's a'powerful feeling, and it's hard to remain skeptical when it's all the love you ever dreamed of.

 

MM are doing "insider trading." They learn from their frustrated W's what women want, and they use it on their mistresses. They start out on the right foot and play all their cards right. They're also better lovers than single men, for those reasons. Hard not to fall for it.

 

I am sorry but I think you are giving men in general far too much credit! I think part of women complaint against men is that they DON'T learn.

 

Your last line is following an argument that single men have not been in relationships. I don't think that is true. It also surmises that marital status means emotional and relational awareness and expertise. I don't agree with that. With my prior marriage, I don't feel that my ex had any more awareness, especially in the bedroom, prior to the walk down the aisle than afterwards. Why would the sex knowledge change and why would it change for more insight? Outside of a couple being virgins until marriage.

[Pierre]

Now, as a married woman, I view all the MM in my 'hood differently. It's crazy. Here I am with security, everything to lose, and this is where my attraction goes. Why is that? Is it that M destroys all that is good in a woman and leaves her feeling empty and insecure? Or is it simply that, now, this is...fortunately or unfortunately...my peer group. We have similar lifestyles, equal amounts to lose, we understand the trials and tribulations of kids (something a single, childless person cannot come close to comprehending,) and we see each other as flawed, disillusioned fellows in this game called marriage and domesticity. Comrades-in-midlife-crisis-arms.

 

Simple, you also have less options. You are no different then the MMs who has fewer options.

 

As we get older we also lower the bar a bit. We are not as demanding regarding what we want. The average OW is her late 30s early 40s.

Edited July 24, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MissBee]

For former and current OW (and OM) what was your stance on investing emotionally and giving your heart to someone who was committed elsewhere?

 

I did keep one foot out definitely. I did not think it was smart to invest 100% on an arrangement I gave a year timeline.

Did you have rules/reservations/timelines for how much you'd invest emotionally?

 

Yes, we came to an agreement on timeline, frequency, communication, etc and literally wrote it up, reviewed it and both agreed to all the pieces. I purposely did that in the beginning that when the year came up that there couldn't be any "I didn't know", "I don't remember", etc. This was in the beginning before I fully knew him and I wasn't going to allow any loopholes without honesty about changing the agreement.

 

Did you avoid an emotional investment or total investment of your heart in comparison to other relationships?

 

Yes, he talked about how he tried to hold himself back emotionally though that changed over the months. I was all in for that year, didn't really hold back but I also knew there was an expiration date that I was going to walk if he didn't make the changes. I did say I was open to dating others and did go out. I had a hard time trying to pursue another relationship but did try and go out so I was not putting all my eggs in one basket regardless of how much I loved that basket.

 

If you invested, at what point did you feel it was worthwhile to do so, and did it work out in your favor?

 

I didn't fully invest in our relationship until well after the divorce and he moved back from having moved away. It was about then we got engaged. Being fully emotionally invested is not easy for me, I am a compartmentalizer by nature and so being 100% authentic and me is a very vulnerable state. So it has been a struggle for me/us but I am doing it. I have always had "one foot out" mentality in a relationship so I am leaving at the first hint of trouble. If I can predict an explosion I can minimize impact, right? So it is a control feature for me. So in this marriage I am laying myself bare and vulnerable because I need to be. I can't self protect if I want a relationship to have a fair shot.

 

Seems like you went in smartly and avoided much of the haphazard tumble and waking up fully invested and not knowing how. And yepp to the self-protect thing, I know that will be a hard one for me, and something I'm working on, as I am also of the mind, especially re infidelity, that I will be off at the first sign and won't be looking back.

[MissBee]

I don't consciously invest in love, ever. All my decision making happens very early on--a lot of things turn me off at the very beginning, and I don't fall easily. But when I fall, I fall quick & hard and I do not feel like I have any control over the "investment." I don't deposit love in increments, I go all in.

 

It's easy to do with a MM because they are offering this Ponzi scheme of love. Seems too good to be true, he makes you feel like youve tapped into a secret, unearthed treasure deep within him, he makes you feel like you've changed his world. It's a'powerful feeling, and it's hard to remain skeptical when it's all the love you ever dreamed of.

 

MM are doing "insider trading." They learn from their frustrated W's what women want, and they use it on their mistresses. They start out on the right foot and play all their cards right. They're also better lovers than single men, for those reasons. Hard not to fall for it.

 

This is a pretty good analogy

 

Having been in an affair, having a serial cheater for a dad, and reading these forums, I'd like to think that I can spot that Ponzi scheme from a mile out, and know all that glitters isn't gold, and am a lot more cautious about who I invest in emotionally.

[Got it]

Seems like you went in smartly and avoided much of the haphazard tumble and waking up fully invested and not knowing how. And yepp to the self-protect thing, I know that will be a hard one for me, and something I'm working on, as I am also of the mind, especially re infidelity, that I will be off at the first sign and won't be looking back.

 

Miss Bee - Contrary to some of the debating on other threads, I did not see going into an affair as the best bet on a risk analysis. It was supposed to be a fling and the idea of being more than that caused me to think a lot. I knew how I felt but my logical brain felt it was too much of a gamble. So to even the sides, and honestly assuming that statistically since most relationships fail and the added stresses of being an affair, I hoped for the best but prepared for the worse. I am definitely a "waiting for the other shoe to drop" person since childhood.

 

But I have realized that I can't control being hurt, that I can't head it off, mitigate it or minimize it and be 100% in a relationship. I wasn't fair in my marriage for holding parts of me back and only giving him pieces of me, and I won't be fair to others if I do that. I know it is from being open and being terribly hurt when I was young, I recognize its a self protecting mechanism. So while I know what I need to do, I also know that feeling of panic when I am open and vulnerable to hurt.

 

Being in a relationship that started as an affair has been the biggest challenge to my coping mechanism above. It was one of the best ways to cement me into my coping mechanism and allow me to justify and cope based on my early experiences. But forcing myself not to fall back into that, to lay myself bare, trust that I will be okay no matter what, trust that I can be hurt and survive, be hurt and move on, that no matter what I am okay, I am happy and I am content regardless of what life throws at me.

 

It has been a challenge. I am still learning. But life is full of opportunities to grow.