What does NC mean to you?

[compulsivedancer]

Recently seen in another thread:

And I am waiting for when you realize that remembering your AP fondly is not NC.

 

Thoughts?

 

If you've read my other threads, you know that this is something I regularly struggle with. I have had NC with AP since DDay (he has not tried to contact me either). But I still think of him frequently.

 

However, even my husband does not expect all of my thoughts about AP to be negative, and he hates AP. He is disappointed that I have trouble putting the blame on AP, but he doesn't consider it a violation of NC.

 

For a while, however, when I was regularly struggling with this, my emotions towards AP did feel unfaithful, but unintentionally so.

 

I'm not asking whether it's okay to think about AP, merely: What does NC mean to you?

[Lani]

No contact means no contact.

You can't make a decision not to feel or think something, that's just ridiculous.

[affairaddict]

NO CONTACT means NO CONTACT again ever. Sometimes people do it to fuel the drama, they think that the married person will want them more and realise what they are missing.

 

It has to be for yourself, to move on and heal, not temporary and spend the whole time thinking maybe he's leaving or hopefully he will contact me soon. I have been guilty of that, maybe I am too now, I don't even know, I hope not.

[Sooverhim]

Hi Compulsivedancer!

 

NC to me means simply that ... no contact with XMM, no phoning, no texting, no e-mails, no speaking, no trying to accidentally bump into him, no stalking on Facebook or anything else, not that I am on Facebook or anything. It means no form of communication with XMM at all. I've done the whole "trying to be friends" thing with him, and just the occasional text to see how we are both doing, but have come to the conclusion that even that is still continuing to have an A with him ... it's an emotional affair, it's still engaging in the ego-stroking and betrayal of H.

 

I don't consider thinking about XMM to be breaking NC. We all think of lots of things all the time, we think of ex-boyfriends occasionally, people we know or work with, we don't think of them in a romantic way and are not wanting to have an A with them. We can still think of XAP and not want to have an A with them again. We all have memories of all the things that have happened in our lives, some happy, some sad. We can try not to think about XAP but he/she will pop into our heads at times. It's not a terrible thing. We can use the opportunity to remind ourselves about what our A was really about, where we went wrong in our lives, why we made the bad choices, and we can learn from our mistakes and move forward.

 

I don't think of my XMM that often any more, but when I do I don't remember fondly of my time with him, I remember how unhappy I was, how depressed, stressed out, miserable, how low my self-esteem was. And I realise when I look back with hindsight what my XMM was really like, how he played with my emotions, how he manipulated me, how he strung me along, controlled me, used me. And I feel so relieved to be out of that situation now, and I thank my lucky stars that all the work I have done on myself and my M has paid off, and that we are happy.

[road]

Memories fade with time and they get recalled less often. Things that trigger you to the OM must be removed from your life.

 

NC is no phone, email, texts, IM, letters, Face Book, not even hearing about the OM from third parties or any other source.

 

Also anything that you own that OM gave you must be gone. Any gifts, your favorite clothes that you wore for the OM.

 

OM in your car, boat, home, motorcycle, camper, all must be sold.

 

Nothing is to be kept that can cause you to trigger and remember the good times you had with the OM.

 

Even the cell you waited breathlessly to hear for the OM to call. That cell is a trigger, toss it.

 

Text's, emails, give copies for your BH to read then delete them so you will never have access top them or be tempted to break NC by looking at them.

 

OM must be totally purged so you will eliminate all external reminders.

[compulsivedancer]

I've written AP letters in my journal a couple of times, not to mail, but to get past the need to contact him. H knows about it, and I've offered to let him read them. Is that breaking NC?

[PhoenixRise]

I've written AP letters in my journal a couple of times, not to mail, but to get past the need to contact him. H knows about it, and I've offered to let him read them. Is that breaking NC?

 

I don't think anyone expects you to be able to completely control your thoughts but you can shift their direction once you realize they are headed in an unhealthy direction.

 

Beyond that, NC is whatever you and your spouse agree it is. There is no one theory of NC that fits every situation.

 

If your H is ok with your letters in your journal and with the level of transparency regarding the letters then it's all good.

 

For me, NC means no contact. No calls, texts, emails, smoke signals, morse code, social media, from him and I am told immediately about any contact from her.

[waterwoman]

Of course thinking about someone isn't breaking NC.

 

But I guess for me it would depend on what you did with those thoughts. If you began to wander down memory lane, if you began to paint imagination pictures of being with him/her, then maybe it is form of breaking NC. I guess I would struggle with H if, after seeing how broken I was after dday, he allowed himself wistful thoughts about OW. I would hope most thoughts of her would be tinged with shame and regret.

[dichotomy]

BH here. I made the mistake on Dday of saying "don't ever speak/see him again" instead of the broader context of NC. What happened was I found out three years later that he still called her 1-2 times a year (mainly on her birthday) and also used her old GF (a friend of his) to pass along in appropriate message. I then had to expand it to the real NC - which is if he or anyone tries to contact you again - you need to shut it down hard. Fortunately or perhaps unfortunately - OM stopped calling and GF did not bring it up again so wife never got the opportunity to make a statement to them.

 

Anyway - you seem to be asking about thoughts and feelings – that’s a different issue. Through therapy my wife took a while after she stopped talking to OM - to shift her thoughts and perceptions. She still had lingering mixed feelings about A and OM. Now she sees herself, OM, and A as unhealthy - but I can't really control or ask her to disavow that there was real sexual or physical or other pleasures and enjoyment or feelings. Heroin is unhealthy, destructive, nasty…. But to lie it was pleasurable or had its attraction or to admit you miss that is not a helpful or honest.

 

That said - I think it is good you would be open alow your spouse to read your jornal letters, but I would be more inclined to be reading them to your therapist instead. I am not sure what form these journal letters are taking? or if they would be hurtful to your husband. Breaking emotional glues or feelings or thoughts takes alot longer the phyiscal and communication NC.

 

I stopped being really mad (not completely but mostly) at OM, and focused the issue on my wife. Not the drug -or the pusher, but the addict needs my energy.

Edited July 25, 2013 by dichotomy

[shakenandstirred]

Are these letters written with "longing" for what was? I do think that that there has to be a degree of mental NC. You have to see the affair as a hindrance to your marriage. Fond memories of how the affair and AP made you feel can stifle progress of reconciliation. While you may not be able to control the OM popping in your head, you should at least be working toward feeling indifference toward him. Where thinking of him causes you no feelings at all.

Edited July 25, 2013 by shakenandstirred

[MMY]

I think if you are a WS or BS and you are on this board you are in some ways thinking of the AP, good or bad. So for those who say such extreme measures I question why they are here in the first place.

 

NC was hard in the beginning but Time does help. Going on 4 months of NC and I find myself driving by a place we would meet (there were a lot) and not thinking about her so I do believe those memories will fade. Never completely but they will fade.

[Journee]

No contact. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Nunca.

 

It's hard for the betrayed to know or even to speculate that the person they love and who has hurt them deeply is pining for or basking in the attachment. They don't have to like it or even accept it honestly. Frankly, BSs should not have to swallow their pride in order to help the wayward grieve the A. I love my husband and if his AP was as all encompassing and addictive as I see the betrayers depict here , he was/ is free to go. I am not perfect. Not a single BS is but I deserve someone who thinks longingly of me. Someone who thinks of me on special days or when a certain song comes on the radio. Someone that I can make feel special and loved and that is enough for them. If a wayward does not view it like that then there is no point in even setting a basic rule like NC.

 

If the WS wants to reconcile out of love and commitment then don't be surprised that this hurts. If the WS had the knowledge that their spouse was thinking of another man/ woman whom they had an emotional or physical affair with , I'm sure it would not be palatable for the WS either. It's ok for the B.S. not to like it. It's ok not to accept certain levels of continued mourning of the AP. It's a huge blow to one's self-esteem.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Journee

[Spark1111]

I told my H if there was accidental or intentional contact by either of them, and I was not informed immediately, I would walk.

 

I also told him that I too deserved someone who only loved and cherished me and if it wasn't him, I intended to find that person and he was free to do the same.

 

Life is just too short to settle for less. No one HAS to stay married today.

 

If he sits around and wistfully remembers the one person on the planet who willfully engaged in the deception of an innocent spouse and children, then shame on him.

 

That is either a selfishness, pathology, or void that I cannot fathom.

[Betterthanthis13]

No contact is no contact. None, zero. If there is essential communication to be made, too bad. Still no contact. It's behavior modification, the brain takes longer to catch up to what the body is doing.

 

Just be aware of the amount of time you spend thinking about AP and be honest with yourself. Are you genuinely doing what you really deep down inside want to do, or just doing what you think you "should" do?

[Tau]

"Are these letters written with "longing" for what was? I do think that that there has to be a degree of mental NC. You have to see the affair as a hindrance to your marriage. Fond memories of how the affair and AP made you feel can stifle progress of reconciliation."

 

What's the difference between writing the AP letters (even 'for yourself'), and internally continuing an emotional affair? Aren't you still role playing/fantasizing contact? I'm curious.

 

"It's hard for the betrayed to know or even to speculate that the person they love and who has hurt them deeply is pining for or basking in the attachment. They don't have to like it or even accept it honestly. Frankly, BSs should not have to swallow their pride in order to help the wayward grieve the A. I love my husband and if his AP was as all encompassing and addictive as I see the betrayers depict here , he was/ is free to go."

 

I get do get sick of hearing about pining for the OM. I feel like my WW milks this aspect of post affair life. I think she thinks about it too much, so it becomes even bigger a thing. I think obsessing over it makes NC harder too. I think it also gives her a story to tell and she likes the attention (which is part of what got us into this mess as I understand it), so there's a certain unwillingness to move on for multiple reasons. While I love her, I honestly don't give two s**ts of sympathy or patience for her overblown struggle for defining/finding NC. It mostly frustrates me at this point.

 

Just shift your thinking. Make yourself think of something else. You can't control the initial 'pop' into your head.

 

"I told my H if there was accidental or intentional contact by either of them, and I was not informed immediately, I would walk."

 

Same policy here, Spark.

[janedoe67]

No contact means no contact of any form. No talking, no email, no texting, no finding out about them through mutual friends, no attending the same functions, no looking at their facebook page.....nada

 

As far as thoughts and feelings go...yes we CAN retrain them. Most WS's don't need a bunch of "time" to "sort through" the feelings for the OP. Yes, there is withdrawal. But when someone quits using drugs, they are not advised to sit around remembering all the good times with their drugs or write imaginary love letters to their drugs.

 

When the OP comes to mind, they redirect the thought. When angst comes up with emotion for the OP, they remind themselves how much their choice to become involved with the OP hurt people. Then they replace those thoughts and feelings with kind acts toward their spouse, gratitude lists about their spouse/family, verses of Scripture, some sort of physical activity, meeting their spouse's needs.

 

Once the inital withdrawal is over....any feelings pondered over, pored over, and chronicled are simply a CHOICE to remain connected to the OP.

[Spark1111]

I think it is the job of the WS, if they have been given the chance and choose to reconcile to burst the affair bubble when possible.

 

What ISN'T great, fun, wonderful while dating for the first two years? Absolutely NOTHING.

 

Imagine crying kids, arguing over the bills and whose turn it is to take out the trash, that inlaw you are not fond of......your worst days....lack of privacy, not enough sex, he or she stops being as caring or romantic....there are socks on the floor, she forgets to pick up your dry-cleaning...the loss of a job or a parent.

 

if I had to work on forgiveness, surely, he can work on bringing a heady dose of reality to his affair bubble where everything was engineered to always be romantic and private and reality and real life was never allowed to intrude.

 

That's fair, no?

[ladydesigner]

Yep NC means exactly that, NC of any kind. I would like to think that my WH does not think of MOW fondly, but I am not positive. My WH broke NC 4 times with her. On the 4th time I told him he made his choice and I started to proceed with D. WH has been NC ever since. He also knows that if there is any future broken NC that our M will be over. If he is pining for her well he can make himself miserable doing that. I am forever living life for me and I'm determined to be a healthy and happier person again.

[MissBee]

No contact means no contact.

You can't make a decision not to feel or think something, that's just ridiculous.

 

Ditto.

 

You cannot control your thoughts totally and you cannot control someone else's. For me, first off NC has to be a decision my spouse makes for himself because he wants us to work out. It would never be something I force on him. He would know it is required, but HE needs to be the one spearheading it and not me.

 

No contact means, no contacting, period. Be it email, text, messenger pigeon, message in a bottle, hello on the street, you name it, don't do it. It also means no social media stalking this person; i.e. deleting and blocking.

 

I've never been in the reconciliation process, so I'm only speaking from what it would mean to me as I imagine it. I do know that if the relationship was more than sexual, then there will be fond thoughts perhaps and I cannot control it...but I do know you either make a choice to be with me because you love and want us or you don't. That would be my criteria for reconciliation. If you are trying to stay for kids, pets, house, car, reputation or anything else, but "secretly love" your OW, DON'T! I don't want it. You are staying for me, and us and our life, or you're leaving. I won't tolerate anyone staying for anything less. Therefore, if you're staying for us, NC, allows for your emotions and thoughts to even out and for you to detach from that experience...so in due time, the fond thoughts dissipate, or like with ANY woman you dated before me, which I'm sure you will have fond thoughts about, as will I of other men, it doesn't matter...as they are the past and I chose you for my husband, and my fond memories of Tom don't have any impact on my life.

[road]

I've written AP letters in my journal a couple of times, not to mail, but to get past the need to contact him. H knows about it, and I've offered to let him read them. Is that breaking NC?

 

 

This in a way is breaking NC. Yes the OM will never see those letters in your journal.

 

Though spending time writing to the OM is time taken away from your BH, recovery, and, marriage.

 

It is one thing when something causes you to trigger and remember the OM and the affair.

 

Thoughts that a trigger bring up can not be controlled. The effort to write to the OM in your journal is not an involuntary response. Writing that journal to the OM is a conscience effort that is reaching out to the OM and keeping the OM in the present and still part of your life.

 

Many WW grieve the loss of their lover/OM. A trigger is a natural cause to grieve the loss. You writing in to your journal to the OM is wearing all black all the time.

 

Waiting for the OM's funeral Pryor to through yourself upon.

 

When you trigger about the OM and sit and say nothing as you watch tv next to your BH does not cause BH further pain.

 

You getting up and writing in to your journal to the OM is again sticking the affair knife into your BH's back again and twisting it slowly.

 

Grow up. The OM was a sneak. A liar. A cheat.

 

The OM was double good. Good for nothing and no good.

 

You are crying for a man that did not hall the balls to face your BH at the start of the affair and announce his intensions to bang you his WW.

 

He only had the balls to bang you because you aided the OM in destroying your BH's family, marriage, and health.

 

The stress of your affair will show it's toll on your BH's health in years to come. Yeah! Keep carrying a torch for the OM.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Interesting discussion here. So to add clarity to my original thoughts.

 

Ideally, NC for the WS is to bring distance that allows the affair and the AP to fade from importance. Allows for the focus of attention on the marriage and spouse and opens up space for the reconnection.

 

Ideally, NC for the betrayed spouse provides some assurance of safety that the WS is not continuing the affair, while determining if they want to stay in the marriage or during reconciliation. And that the WS committed.

 

Thoughts cannot be controlled entirely, but they can be redirected as a previous poster mentioned. We do this every single day with other things why NOT an affair (e.g. no I will not think of that chocolate bar!)

 

In the case of a "dry drunk" who plays with bottles of booze, smells the glass but doesn't drink... a WS who indulges the thoughts and the memories of their affair with fond and pleasant feelings is not truly trying to get over the affair. The emotional intimacy from those fond thoughts keeps the affair and the AP in the mind of the WS and prevents the fading.

 

What is NC? Well all the things that people mentioned. But I also believe that things ...like day dreaming about the fun time on vacation with the AP; wondering how they are doing on their new job; wondering if the AP misses them; wondering if they ever loved them; driving past the first place you kissed; looking at momentous; wearing the special tie/perfume; remembering how much fun snugging and watching TV etc...It's not mental NC, it's not. And doing it keeps the affair alive, just like a dry drunk isn't sober, they just aren't drinking.

 

No one can control a wild thought, but you can say "stop" or remember something terrible that happened as a result to help dim the experience.

 

As I said in the original post, while the affair activities, and emotions were special and amazing at the time, the WS was actively participating in the destruction of the spouse and family. So to look back with fondness on that time, and that person, is equivalent remembering with fondness the circumstance and person(s) that caused harm to someone you love. (And bless you special BS who have patience for the withdrawal I admire your selflessness.)

 

I believe as part of committing to the marriage, the WS should be trying to get to see with "no fondness" the AP and affair activities.

 

And, I do not see relationships that happened prior to the marriage/commitment as the same at all as the element of betrayal does not play a part, remembering your sixth grade boyfriend with fondness is not the equivalent as remembering your AP from January.

Edited July 26, 2013 by It-is-what-it-is.

[compulsivedancer]

Are these letters written with "longing" for what was? I do think that that there has to be a degree of mental NC. You have to see the affair as a hindrance to your marriage. Fond memories of how the affair and AP made you feel can stifle progress of reconciliation. While you may not be able to control the OM popping in your head, you should at least be working toward feeling indifference toward him. Where thinking of him causes you no feelings at all.

I wrote the first letter about a month after DDay. I was really struggling because I wanted to see AP because I had a lot of questions for him. H had raised all kinds of questions in my mind that I wanted answers to. Additionally, I had some cautions for him now that the affair was over, and I was angry because of a particular lie he told me, and I wanted to make sure he understood. H told me I should write it down as a letter to him in my journal as a form of self-therapy in order to get my thoughts in order and understand why I was struggling with contacting AP.

 

At this point, I wrote one or two other letters that WERE wistful and longing, of the "I wish we had one more kiss and could say goodbye properly" variety. I realize that this was NOT where I needed to be, but this was very very soon after DDay, when I was still trying to get my thoughts together and commit to H.

 

DDay was at the end of Jan. I struggled into June with my wish to contact AP. I am very glad that H was firm about NC and that AP never contacted me, because I realize now that all of my reasons for wanting to see him, while sounding true enough in my head, were basically that I wanted to see him for myself and get validation from him one last time. But at the time I truly thought that I just wanted to get these things off my chest and see for myself the extent to which he had manipulated me (vs. things being "real"). At the time, H was still planning to see him at the end of July, for his own form of closure, and said that he would consider taking AP a letter from me, as long as he got to read it first and approve it.

 

I wrote a couple of versions of this letter, which pretty much contained the same stuff as that first letter. For me, it was the NC letter that I never wrote him (since we simply never had contact again after H confronted us). I wrote the last one, then looked back at everything I had written, and realized that I wrote the same letter, almost exactly, four different times.

 

I have written one more since then, this one based on an idea I saw in the OW forum. It was a list of things that I didn't miss about the affair. I thought it would be therapeutic, instead of focusing on the good moments with him, to focus on all the crappy parts of being with him. I also wrote a list of things I didn't miss about him as a person. I don't know why I wrote this in second person, probably because I was going through an angry phase. (I wrote a different angry letter in my head, but did not write it down on paper).

 

Remember guys, that affair recovery happens in stages, and I've gone through several. I am no longer in the "fond remembrances of AP" mindset, but it did throw me for a loop seeing a BS refer to thinking about the AP as a violation of NC. It made me wonder whether other BSs would consider that a violation of NC as well.

[janedoe67]

I have heard it said of our thoughts:

 

We can't control whether a bird lands on our head, but we can keep from allowing it to build a nest there.

[AbeNormal]

Recently seen in another thread:

 

Thoughts?

 

If you've read my other threads, you know that this is something I regularly struggle with. I have had NC with AP since DDay (he has not tried to contact me either). But I still think of him frequently.

 

However, even my husband does not expect all of my thoughts about AP to be negative, and he hates AP. He is disappointed that I have trouble putting the blame on AP, but he doesn't consider it a violation of NC.

 

For a while, however, when I was regularly struggling with this, my emotions towards AP did feel unfaithful, but unintentionally so.

 

I'm not asking whether it's okay to think about AP, merely: What does NC mean to you?

 

So you say/think. Keep daydreaming at your own peril. You will be surprised when it comes back upon you (presuming that your husband is an "average guy"...). It might be tolerated for awhile (your husband thinking you are engaging in idiocy, trying to rationalize your behaviour, as he has been displaced to a realm of diminished self esteem - and he "tries to win you back" to overcome that assault upon his his self esteem/worth) - but then the gantlet might very likely fall...

Edited July 26, 2013 by AbeNormal

[BetrayedH]

Sounds to me like you're in a relatively good place (somewhat beyond the "fond remebrances of the affair" stage). There are always bumps along the way.

 

Keep striving for mental NC in addition to physical NC. When the triggers happen, envision a stop sign in your head and force yourself to redirect your thoughts. Spend 5 mins on your H; send him a flirty text, sext him, make plans, write a love note, etc..