What does NC mean to you?

July 27, 2013

Sounds to me like you're in a relatively good place (somewhat beyond the "fond remebrances of the affair" stage). There are always bumps along the way.

Keep striving for mental NC in addition to physical NC. When the triggers happen, envision a stop sign in your head and force yourself to redirect your thoughts. Spend 5 mins on your H; send him a flirty text, sext him, make plans, write a love note, etc..

And if her husband is not an idiot (or - what is the phrase - a willful idiot? Or a cuckold?) he will see through this immediately. And then what?

Maybe too harsh - after all, according to your prescription, she should give him 0.00347 of her full/complete day.

Edited July 27, 2013 by AbeNormal

July 27, 2013

Maybe too harsh - after all, according to your prescription, she should give him 0.00347 of her full/complete day.

Abe, I think he means to give H an EXTRA 5 minutes each time I think of AP. in addition to other time we spend together. The idea is to redirect my energy from thinking about AP to productive energy spent toward my relationship with H.

July 27, 2013

And if her husband is not an idiot (or - what is the phrase - a willful idiot? Or a cuckold?) he will see through this immediately. And then what?

Maybe too harsh - after all, according to your prescription, she should give him 0.00347 of her full/complete day.

The others are right that I meant for her to spend an "extra" 5 minutes on her husband every time thoughts of her AP enter her mind. It's a pretty standard recommendation for redirecting thoughts of your AP and rebuilding your M at the same time after you've been wayward. Personally, I think it's wise to keep making those little 5 minute investments. Those little moments shouldn't just be reserved for affairs where they have to be stolen. In fact, if waywards spent half the time they had spent on their affair working in the same ways to restore their marriage, perhaps the affair wouldn't have happened at all.

July 27, 2013

Recently seen in another thread:

Thoughts?

If you've read my other threads, you know that this is something I regularly struggle with. I have had NC with AP since DDay (he has not tried to contact me either). But I still think of him frequently.

However, even my husband does not expect all of my thoughts about AP to be negative, and he hates AP. He is disappointed that I have trouble putting the blame on AP, but he doesn't consider it a violation of NC.

For a while, however, when I was regularly struggling with this, my emotions towards AP did feel unfaithful, but unintentionally so.

I'm not asking whether it's okay to think about AP, merely: What does NC mean to you?

To me NC should mean no emails, no phone calls, and no booty calls lol.

July 28, 2013

What's the difference between writing the AP letters (even 'for yourself'), and internally continuing an emotional affair? Aren't you still role playing/fantasizing contact? I'm curious.

Maybe I am. But I am not able to talk to him in person. Writing helps me clarify my feelings. I still feel a lot of hurt towards him, and have a lot of questions I'll never have answered. I know it's futile, but it still allows me to work through the questions in my head.

During the A, I was careful not to mention any of this ever on paper. It was a very bad idea. I really needed a spot to clarify my thoughts, and the only thing I had was AP, who obviously used those moments to reassure me about what I was doing. Putting my thoughts on paper helps me to get them out and get out of the whirlwind in my head. I often learn things about my thoughts by writing or talking to others. If you remember, this actually happened to me earlier this month when I responded to one of your posts.

One realization was when I looked back and realized I'd written the same letter 4-5 times. That was when I realized that I really just had a couple of things I was stuck on, and that allowed me to move past those questions. Being on here helped a lot with that too.

Likewise, I felt the need to actually write down the things I didn't miss about him and about the affair, so that I could refer back to it whenever I caught myself daydreaming. For me, writing it as a letter to him was a way of saying "I'm washing you out of my hair."

I get do get sick of hearing about pining for the OM. I feel like my WW milks this aspect of post affair life. I think she thinks about it too much, so it becomes even bigger a thing. I think obsessing over it makes NC harder too. I think it also gives her a story to tell and she likes the attention (which is part of what got us into this mess as I understand it), so there's a certain unwillingness to move on for multiple reasons.

I would say that it all depends what she's getting out of it. It might be a necessary stage for her. In my case, I only had one serious relationship prior to H, so this is literally my second breakup ever. I am very very lucky and thankful that it didn't become my second AND third breakups, but it's still a much more difficult breakup because of all of the other aspects involved than a normal 6-month relationship would've been.

Being reminded by friends that nothing good would come of having that "last conversation" or "closure" and that he wouldn't tell me the truth can be really helpful. And it is necessary to have someone to talk to about the A and R other than BS, as there are really challenging parts of being the WS in R too.

But I limit this to one friend that has helped me through all of this. I don't want to burden my entire friend group with our affair, any more than they're already stuck with it, and I don't want to be self-indulgent. I will occasionally seek out other advice from another friend, but a lot of times it's better to talk to people here, etc.

It's also important to balance the advice. That's part of why I'm on here. Unfortunately, this particular friend has been very helpful in my R with my husband, but she is pro-closure and thinks H is in the wrong. I know he's not, but I needed some balance from a community of people who've been there, which is part of why I sought out LS.

While I love her, I honestly don't give two s**ts of sympathy or patience for her overblown struggle for defining/finding NC. It mostly frustrates me at this point.

I hope she's not actively struggling to FIND NC. I hope she's already there. I have NC, 100%. My struggle is accepting it. This thread is because I didn't realize that some might construe NC in a different way than I do.

"I told my H if there was accidental or intentional contact by either of them, and I was not informed immediately, I would walk."

This is super important. My husband has said that violation of NC is a dealbreaker. There have been a few times where this is the ONLY thing that kept me from contacting AP. I am very glad that AP has not tried to contact me, as much as it hurts my ego. Make sure you word this very strongly and she knows that you WILL leave if she contacts him.

I was told that if I run into him in public, I must turn and walk away. I can tell him that I am not going to talk to him, but absolutely nothing more. Thankfully, this has not happened either.

Sorry it took so long to get back to this. I know you guys are further into R than we are timewise, and I was disturbed to hear that she was still in a stage I've mostly come out of. But I know that each R and relationship is different than the next and I wanted to make sure I offered helpful feedback and not just red flags.

As long as she's truly working on repairing your relationship, she'll get to where she needs to be. I know that it's one more frustrating, upsetting thing for you to deal with it, but sooner or later she'll figure it out, if she really wants things to work out. I hope that that's where she's at.

One thing that once again helped put things into perspective was that right around the time I joined LS, we were having our seventh wedding anniversary. It didn't go very well and was extremely painful. H revealed that he was still uncertain that everything was going to work out. We had discussed exchanging new rings for our anniversary, but he said he doesn't really feel married to me right now.

That snapped everything back into focus. It was no longer about me and my feelings about AP, suddenly it was "holy sh*t, we still might not make it," and my focus was redoubled on the relationship. Sometimes I reminder is important.

July 28, 2013

It seems to me that the WS (or OM/OW) may think NC means just no contact, whereas the BS thinks it's much more internal than that. If you're a BS, make sure you and WS discuss what NC means to each of you, so that you don't end up hurting each other through miscommunication.

Additionally, what if WS bumps into OM/OW at Walmart? What if OM/OW contacts WS? Does WS have the same expectations as BS? I think that having a game plan in advance could save a lot of needless upset.

July 28, 2013

Not to be discouraging but I recommend you keep that, "Holy shi t, we might not make it" concept at the forefront of your mind for a good long while. When they say 2-5 years, they're not kidding. It's really hard to communicate exactly how infidelity invades every thought of a BS and feels like it will never stop. I woke up with it in the morning, thought about it all day, and went to sleep with it at night (when I was able to sleep). It's exhausting. Many BSs say the second year is worse than the first. The first is dominated by shock and sadly for many, fear that the WS will leave and the M and family will be lost entirely. But by the second year, the BS has begun to feel "safe" and that leaves room for anger to set in. If this corresponds with the WS easing off their efforts and feeling like a year has passed and they're over it, the BS can just lose it.

Every day is a gift. Don't take your marriage for granted. Forget this AP and rebuild your marriage to the one man that is truly there for you.

July 28, 2013

CD, forgive me for going off-topic a bit (and you can feel free to decline to answer this).

What is your motivation for staying in your marriage? In my situation, I would say that my wife was "done with the marriage" probably about a year before she started her affair (which then went on for a year before discovery). In hindsight, I see that my wife stayed out of guilt, obligation, and fear. It didn't work for us. She broke NC more than once and trickle-truthed (which prolonged our agony) until we both threw in the towel. I think it must be amazingly hard to avoid staying out of guilt, obligation, and fear. You mentioned a fear of having to suffer another break-up, which is why I ask. It's a common belief that wayward women are "done with the marriage" before an affair starts, whereas men may tend to still love their wives but want to chase sex (obviously a lot of debateable generalities there). I'm curious how you would categorize your position (and for your sake, hopeful that perhaps you have a better reason for reconciling than that of my wife).

July 28, 2013

CD, forgive me for going off-topic a bit (and you can feel free to decline to answer this).

What is your motivation for staying in your marriage? In my situation, I would say that my wife was "done with the marriage" probably about a year before she started her affair (which then went on for a year before discovery). In hindsight, I see that my wife stayed out of guilt, obligation, and fear. It didn't work for us. She broke NC more than once and trickle-truthed (which prolonged our agony) until we both threw in the towel. I think it must be amazingly hard to avoid staying out of guilt, obligation, and fear. You mentioned a fear of having to suffer another break-up, which is why I ask. It's a common belief that wayward women are "done with the marriage" before an affair starts, whereas men may tend to still love their wives but want to chase sex (obviously a lot of debateable generalities there). I'm curious how you would categorize your position (and for your sake, hopeful that perhaps you have a better reason for reconciling than that of my wife).

I love him. He's my everything. I just wish I'd understood that before the affair.

July 28, 2013

CD, forgive me for going off-topic a bit (and you can feel free to decline to answer this).

What is your motivation for staying in your marriage? In my situation, I would say that my wife was "done with the marriage" probably about a year before she started her affair (which then went on for a year before discovery). In hindsight, I see that my wife stayed out of guilt, obligation, and fear. It didn't work for us. She broke NC more than once and trickle-truthed (which prolonged our agony) until we both threw in the towel. I think it must be amazingly hard to avoid staying out of guilt, obligation, and fear. You mentioned a fear of having to suffer another break-up, which is why I ask. It's a common belief that wayward women are "done with the marriage" before an affair starts, whereas men may tend to still love their wives but want to chase sex (obviously a lot of debateable generalities there). I'm curious how you would categorize your position (and for your sake, hopeful that perhaps you have a better reason for reconciling than that of my wife).

I loved him and never wanted to stop being married to him, but I wanted to go experiment. We were discussing an open relationship when I started the A. I thought I just wanted sex, but I also wanted the validation and fuzzy feelings and excitement that came with another man wanting me.

July 29, 2013

Thanks for both responses. I won't thread-jack further except to say that I find myself exceedingly hopeful for you to keep your marriage.

July 29, 2013

What does NC mean to you?

For the WS and OM/OW

No emailing.

No texting.

No yahoo or google or other type of chatting.

No smoke signals.

No ESP.

No native drums.

No phone calls.

No last visits for closure.

NO messages via mutual friends.

Block emails, phone numbers, facebook.

Change email or phone numbers - even employment ones if needed.

Block mutual friends if they insist on sending messages.

FOREVER.

July 29, 2013

Give yourselves time. You are so new to this. My WS broke NC maybe a half a dozen times before I caused the AP such a trouble that AP went NC. I'm not saying your H will be that patient with you. But don't live in fear of what will happen if you run into AP at Walmart. Your heart is in the right place. You will make it with your H or not but either way you will be ok. That is the best place to be. Keep trying but fear not that you will fail. Your heart is in the right place.

July 29, 2013

I agree that discussing expectations is good to avoid issues, but I think you missed the point Dancer...

NC serves 2 purposes. 2 different purposes.

Ideally, NC for the WS is to bring distance that allows the affair and the AP to fade from importance. Allows for the focus of attention on the marriage and spouse and opens up space for the reconnection.

Ideally, NC for the betrayed spouse provides some assurance of safety that the WS is not continuing the affair, while determining if they want to stay in the marriage or during reconciliation. And that the WS committed.

For the WS, NC is going to have to include mental redirection. How else will you get over it?

Also, why do you need to talk to him (via letters or thoughts) if your affair was not about him rather about the things you mentioned.

Do you see the lack of logic? By focusing your thinking to him, rather than on you, you keep your affair fresh. He should be irrelevant.

Your thoughts should not be "why did he do this" it should be "why did I do this"

I understand that he is equally culpable. But he is irrelevant.

NC seeks to eliminate the space this person takes up in your life and marriage (and head)

February 22, 2014

It's only come up twice so far, but I imagine it'll keep coming up, since H posted the thread about doing internet searches on OM. I make it a point not to comment on H's thread, so I'm reviving this related thread for this purpose.

First, no, I haven't looked for him again since then (I know it's only been a week or two).

Second, OM is and has always been (since DDay) blocked on all of my social media outlets.

Third, OM is a ghost online. Literally there is a bare minimum of things that come up when you Google him. No pictures, no articles. The couple things available are several years old. I discovered all of this shortly after DDay.

As far as being a breach of No Contact, I didn't really think of it that way, since I never saw anything new. It was certainly not desirable behavior, of the rough equivalent of looking at an old photo. But since I was not interacting with him in any way, I wasn't thinking of it as breaking NC. Obviously H does not share that opinion. Or only sort of shares that opinion (since he took so long to say anything?)?

So why look him up?

Short answer. I'm not sure. There are several reasons, and different ones apply at different times.

Early on, I was really looking for new info on him. As you can see in my LS posts, I was still struggling with NC well into July. I joined LS because I was fighting very hard against the impulse to go see him.

In my mind, Googling him was the lesser of evils. I could take the wish to go see him and channel it into looking for info online instead.

This is my second real breakup ever. With my ex from before H and I started dating, I still was friends with him and if I got the urge to see what was going on, or if I had a question for him, I could always just call and talk to him. Until about 2012, I called him about once a year just to catch up.

I still occasionally hear about him from friends, and when he got married a couple years ago, I got an invite to his wedding. I will probably run into him when I attend a mutual friend's baby shower this spring.

An affair breakup is different. NC is different. If you get the urge to speak to him, or you have an unanswered question, you can't. You are expected to train your mind not to ever think of the guy again, and in fact to train yourself to associate negative thoughts whenever you think of him. It's strange and it makes the healing process strange.

As time has gone on, I have still Googled him, but without the expectation of actually seeing anything. It became more of a habit - oh, I'm thinking of him; let's take a look.

I'm not saying I should have done it, just that there was never anything new, and I didn't think it was really an issue. I didn't think it was dwelling, as it was literally 15-20 minutes once a month.

Ironically, the few times he HAS popped up, it's really freaked me out.

In October I ran into him. This was actually a partial breach of NC. I was not intending to see him, but I had gone to a public place where he still works. I know that he is hardly ever in the area that I was in, and it is a place I used to frequent (and actually worked at for a short time period). I thought the chance of ever seeing him was very low.

However, he walked past me while I was there (I don't know if he saw me; H says he probably did). I broke out in sweat all over my body and immediately high-tailed it out of the location. I realized that just in being at that place I was flirting with seeing him, and I have not been back since.

However, the stupid place bit me again in Jan, when they posted a staff pic on their Facebook, which I follow. Again, they only ever post pictures of their patrons, so it took me completely by surprise, and threw me for a loop. I have since unsubscribed to their newsletters and un-"liked" their Facebook page. Seeing his picture is probably the reason for the increased frequency of searches in Jan.

I also drove by his car not so long ago (Jan?) in an unexpected place, and came home nervous and confessed to H that I had seen his car. It felt like a breach of NC, but H said it was not and that he didn't want to hear about my struggles with OM if something like this came up again.

Anyway, point being, OM has popped up a few times lately, and so I DO know how I would react if I saw him. It is pretty much with panic and a flight response.

H pointed out that when I am in control of looking for him, I am fine, but when it is unexpected, I panic. (There is a panic thread around here on LS from Sept, I believe, when I was worried I might run into OM that weekend, as well, though I didn't end up seeing him).

It's stupid, and I shouldn't have looked for him. I guess to me it was part of the mental NC that I haven't fully mastered.

A couple of people, on H's posts said they felt I had lied to LS by not mentioning this. Honestly, I didn't think it was a big deal. And obviously it was a much bigger deal than I realized.

I really do appreciate the LS community and support. It has been an important part of healing and growth for me. I am sorry if I have deceived anyone.

Honestly, I'm just tired of OM and I wish I didn't ever think of him. But I do think about him and I can't always keep it bottled up. I can't write in my journal about it because H always manages to find a way to look at it. I can't really write about it on LS because he reads that too.

My friend who I found so helpful after DDay is no longer available because she's busy getting a divorce after having her own EA (wtf!). Sometimes I just need an outlet. Fluttershy recommended a female mentor. I'm not really sure what that looks like, but if someone is interested or has advice on where to find one, I would be happy to give it a try.

If you want to ask me about this, please use this thread, and do not t/j someone else's.

February 22, 2014

Sorry for such a long post. A little all over the board.

February 22, 2014

If your H (CM) had an affair and he could not realize what a lowlife the OW was, how would you feel?

Your former OM used you, he used CM, he is not a good person. He really is a rotten person. Your H (CM) is a much better man.

Your OM got his fun, used you, and your H has this big ache in his life. He feels like he is not your first choice, that you want to be with the OM. The OM is poison to your happiness, and continues to ruin your life.

Your H thinks that you must really love the OM and not him.

The OM has too much hold on you. I hope your counselor finds a way to help you deal with this addiction. Sometimes an affair is like an addiction.

Please take CM with you when you will meet this other old friend at the baby shower.

I am pulling for both of you. I do hope you both find happiness and with each other.

February 22, 2014

I appreciate you taking the time to revive this thread and share all of that. Though I would consider it a breach of NC, I agree with you that people bringing it up on other threads every time you post is distracting. Unfortunately, that is a familiar Melody that is played, especially if posters have a history on another site; it is a fairly familiar M.O.

I wish you both well in your recovery - we all know recovery is not a straight line.

February 22, 2014

It's only come up twice so far, but I imagine it'll keep coming up, since H posted the thread about doing internet searches on OM. I make it a point not to comment on H's thread, so I'm reviving this related thread for this purpose.

First, no, I haven't looked for him again since then (I know it's only been a week or two).

No matter how you slice it you broke NC.

Second, OM is and has always been (since DDay) blocked on all of my social media outlets.

You blocking OM did not stop you from your onesided break in NC.

Third, OM is a ghost online. Literally there is a bare minimum of things that come up when you Google him. No pictures, no articles. The couple things available are several years old. I discovered all of this shortly after DDay.

Yet to still had to break NC to confirm this. How nice.

As far as being a breach of No Contact, I didn't really think of it that way, since I never saw anything new. It was certainly not desirable behavior, of the rough equivalent of looking at an old photo. But since I was not interacting with him in any way, I wasn't thinking of it as breaking NC. Obviously H does not share that opinion. Or only sort of shares that opinion (since he took so long to say anything?)?

This is not opinion it is fact you broke NC to get a fix of your favorite drug: OM.

So why look him up?

To get your OM fix.

Short answer. I'm not sure. There are several reasons, and different ones apply at different times.

Again to get your OM fix.

Early on, I was really looking for new info on him. As you can see in my LS posts, I was still struggling with NC well into July. I joined LS because I was fighting very hard against the impulse to go see him.

And you are still losing your fight to be free of your addiction of the OM.

In my mind, Googling him was the lesser of evils. I could take the wish to go see him and channel it into looking for info online instead.

Breaking NC is breaking NC.

This is my second real breakup ever. With my ex from before H and I started dating, I still was friends with him and if I got the urge to see what was going on, or if I had a question for him, I could always just call and talk to him. Until about 2012, I called him about once a year just to catch up.

OM is an ex. There is a reason why he is an ex. Ex's are to be left in the past.

I still occasionally hear about him from friends, and when he got married a couple years ago, I got an invite to his wedding. I will probably run into him when I attend a mutual friend's baby shower this spring.

If you wanted NC you would and need to tell your friends that you do not want them to mention OM in front of you. If they are your friends they will comply for you.

An affair breakup is different. NC is different. If you get the urge to speak to him, or you have an unanswered question, you can't. You are expected to train your mind not to ever think of the guy again, and in fact to train yourself to associate negative thoughts whenever you think of him. It's strange and it makes the healing process strange.

As time has gone on, I have still Googled him, but without the expectation of actually seeing anything. It became more of a habit - oh, I'm thinking of him; let's take a look.

The whole goal of looking is to find something. Because you knew the odds were slim you still went searching for a fix.

I'm not saying I should have done it, just that there was never anything new, and I didn't think it was really an issue. I didn't think it was dwelling, as it was literally 15-20 minutes once a month.

There is no justification to break NC but that is all you keep doing here.

Ironically, the few times he HAS popped up, it's really freaked me out.

You got your fix. OM addict.

In October I ran into him. This was actually a partial breach of NC. I was not intending to see him, but I had gone to a public place where he still works. I know that he is hardly ever in the area that I was in, and it is a place I used to frequent (and actually worked at for a short time period). I thought the chance of ever seeing him was very low.

I call horse manure. You go where the OM is because you wanted and "accidental" break in NC. So you claim your innocence.

However, he walked past me while I was there (I don't know if he saw me; H says he probably did). I broke out in sweat all over my body and immediately high-tailed it out of the location. I realized that just in being at that place I was flirting with seeing him, and I have not been back since.

Yet here you are claiming you are not breaking NC in this thread. You speak from both sides of your mouth. Are you two faced?

However, the stupid place bit me again in Jan, when they posted a staff pic on their Facebook, which I follow. Again, they only ever post pictures of their patrons, so it took me completely by surprise, and threw me for a loop. I have since unsubscribed to their newsletters and un-"liked" their Facebook page. Seeing his picture is probably the reason for the increased frequency of searches in Jan.

You say NC is what you want. Your actions say I am stalking the OM. There is no reason to be on that FB page.