What does NC mean to you?

[compulsivedancer]

I can't imagine having to find that after all this time working on things.

 

H knew about it the whole time. He was giving me a test (which I failed), hoping that I would stop on his own without his intervention.

[MuddyFootprints]

...............

response intended for a different thread.

Edited March 18, 2014 by MuddyFootprints

[2sunny]

Are you in counseling together?

 

That may give you exercises and new ideas to rebuild the trust and intimacy between you two.

[road]

H knew about it the whole time. He was giving me a test (which I failed), hoping that I would stop on his own without his intervention.

 

 

 

Yet you appear clueless that you breaking NC is you continuing your affair.

 

 

You saying that your BH knew the whole time is you doing damage control and deflecting some of what you did onto your BH.

 

 

BH's are to verify that their WW are maintaining NC. Your BH did not trick you.

 

 

You let your BH down.

 

 

Though worse then breaking NC is that you can not own what you did is wrong without including justification.

 

 

To own what you did you say I broke NC, without the following words: but, just, I did not mean to, I did not know, my BH did.....

[Clay]

H knew about it the whole time. He was giving me a test (which I failed), hoping that I would stop on his own without his intervention.

 

This tells me your not in love with your H anymore. It does not mean you don't want to be but it is the way it is and you need to learn how to deal with this. I think you should consider Divorce on a peaceful path a good answer. Sure it will hurt like hell but your continuing to hurt your H with your ongoing actions. I would at least go be honest with him so he can make a choice if he wants to stay with you.

 

I am truly sorry you are both going through this.

 

I cant even imagine the pain.

 

Clay

[compulsivedancer]

Though worse then breaking NC is that you can not own what you did is wrong without including justification.

 

To own what you did you say I broke NC, without the following words: but, just, I did not mean to, I did not know, my BH did.....

 

Road, tell me how to own up to it, and I will. Seriously. I shouldn't have done it.

 

However, the first thing everyone on here asks is: "Why"? Please tell me how to own up to something and still satisfy the people asking the question "why."

 

As always, the particular quote you responded has to be taken in context. It is not a rationalization or explanation. I was simply correcting something that Clay (and a few others) said.

 

The main difference in H knowing the whole time vs. just finding out is in how he handled it. It wasn't a new, devastating discovery in the same way. Instead, it was an "Enough! I'm asking you to stop" moment. Yes, he was very upset, but it was not quite what a few of the posters are imagining.

[compulsivedancer]

This tells me your not in love with your H anymore. I don't know how this tells you that. It's not even a little true.

 

It does not mean you don't want to be but it is the way it is and you need to learn how to deal with this. I think you should consider Divorce on a peaceful path a good answer. Sure it will hurt like hell but your continuing to hurt your H with your ongoing actions. I would at least go be honest with him so he can make a choice if he wants to stay with you. Remind me again why everyone always jumps immediately to divorce? Not to say that it could never happen, but we are not even a little bit close to that at the moment, as far as I can tell.

 

I am truly sorry you are both going through this.

 

I cant even imagine the pain.

 

Clay

 

… (10 characters)

[road]

Road, tell me how to own up to it, and I will. Seriously. I shouldn't have done it.

 

However, the first thing everyone on here asks is: "Why"? Please tell me how to own up to something and still satisfy the people asking the question "why."

 

As always, the particular quote you responded has to be taken in context. It is not a rationalization or explanation. I was simply correcting something that Clay (and a few others) said.

 

The main difference in H knowing the whole time vs. just finding out is in how he handled it. It wasn't a new, devastating discovery in the same way. Instead, it was an "Enough! I'm asking you to stop" moment. Yes, he was very upset, but it was not quite what a few of the posters are imagining.

 

 

 

Why? I am addicted to the OM and going through withdrawals I craved an OM fix and broke NC.

[compulsivedancer]

Why? I am addicted to the OM and going through withdrawals I craved an OM fix and broke NC.

That was definitely part of it.

[Spark1111]

That was definitely part of it.

 

That would BREAK my heart for the gazillion time and I would be DIVORCING you today.

 

Your H is one great, sad, man wondering NOW, in year two...if you are worth this pain.

 

frankly, IMO, you are not.

 

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth! OMG!

 

What is the allure about a dirtbag who f'd you and betrayed his oldest, dearest friend?

 

Hate to break it to you CD but this OM, the one you KEEP checking out, was competing with his BF....your H...the one he was always secretly jealous of....the guy who had a life, a fun one, talent, and a beautiful wife....

 

You were used and played to BEST the man your OM always wished he was. You were his ultimate conquest in trying to FEEL as accomplished, loved and successful as his BF...while still living in mommy and daddy's house.

 

you were used. Your H knows it, we know it, and all the talk Of a threesome, the miscommunication, blah, blah, blah is smoke and mirrors because your affair....had NOTHING to do with you.

 

Your H's nerdy BF wanted his life and you were the ticket to get there, to try it on for size, to make him feel like a big, important man. YOU were the ultimate conquest and you served yourself up on a silver platter and boosted the OM's ego sky high.

 

year two? I could not believe my H wanted a woman who could not walk 50 steps in my shoes....

 

I forgave the affair. It took me a long time to forgive the lying. It took me the longest time to realize if I could EVER respect him again.

 

and without respect, I could not sty with him. Checking his needy, insecure OW's websites, the woman who said she wanted my life, would have been the final nail in the coffin.

 

I guarantee you that if your H left you tomorrow, he would have women throwing themselves at him within a month.....

 

would you THEN realize what a mistake it was to check that wannabe OM's social sites when you H is TRYING to bestow the gift of reconciliation to you?

 

lady, WHAY are you doing here? of course he is depressed....

[veritas lux mea]

If the majority of BS on here were my BH, I would be out of the house by now. Thankfully they are not and when they get a little accusatory or tell you what you think or feel you can always remind yourself they are not your BH and be bery thankful for that. That's what I do anyways.

 

To answer your question even though it is old. I think NC is whatver the couple establishes it to be. I don't think googleing the xOM is breaking NC nor do I think dwelling on him is. I just think that is unhealthy and stunts healing. I dis break NC and it is actually reaching out and contacting the person. It is trying to break NC to place yourself where you may run in to the person.

[gettingstronger]

CD- its not so much what we think is breaking NC its how your husband feels about your actions-what you did hurt and upset him so its good you guys talked about it and you acknowledge his feelings- there are things my WH does that upset me and I tell him and we talk through it-doesn't matter if its something a bunch of people online think is silly or not-they matter to me and thats what matters-

 

As we discussed in your other thread-year two is surprisingly difficult in the range of emotions- the decision to reconcile has taken hold, the daily hurt and pain has been replaced with kind of a dull nag-its a wonderful and odd time-happy to have made it this far and grateful for all we have accomplished together but still a bit wounded and lost-

 

Keep communicating and trying-good luck to both of you-

[gettingstronger]

If the majority of BS on here were my BH, I would be out of the house by now. Thankfully they are not and when they get a little accusatory or tell you what you think or feel you can always remind yourself they are not your BH and be bery thankful for that. That's what I do anyways.

 

 

The feeling is like-wise for me as well- glad to not be reconciling with you- point being-we all handle it differently and when asked our opinions we are open and honest in hopes that she finds something that strikes a nerve and helps her on her journey-

Edited March 19, 2014 by gettingstronger
Clarity- need coffee!

[Clay]

I don't think you really understand the damage you do every time you look up the other man. This is just like your cheating on him all over again. All the times you told him you love only him and all the hard work you put into your marriage just went out the window again. He gets to relive the pain each time you do this. It might not mean much to you the man you claim to love is dieing inside each time you do this and honestly it does not sound like you really care. If you really loved him the way you say you do you would NEVER look for the other man again. You would do this all on your own without your H ever having to say a word. The fact that you are not doing this is why I stated you are not inlove with your H and you should move on.

 

I find it heart breaking that you just cant see how much you hurt a person when you do that.

 

I feel for the both of you but honestly I hope he does move on and find a better woman to love him the way he deserves.

 

Clay

[thummper]

I personally believe that CD's checking up on the other man was done more out of habit than longing. It has certainly stirred up a firestorm of disgust among members of LS as well as her husband. I think her feelings may be somewhat confused even now, but I don't think she deserves the vitriol that people are heaping on her at this time.

[BetrayedH]

...No, they are not necessarily about my "feelings for" OM. And often when they are, they involve my feelings of hurt in being used, my feelings of anger at how he disregarded his friendship with H, my feelings of revulsion that this person I cared for was not the person I thought he was. There are a lot of feelings wrapped up in my thoughts of him. Just because I am thinking about him does not necessarily mean I'm thinking about the good times.

 

Other times they are about my feelings about myself. Sometimes they are about my loneliness. Often they are about self-doubt and trying to reconcile the belief in myself needed to move forward and better my life with the belief that I am a terrible person who is not moving forward at the pace that everyone seems to think I need to be moving forward at...

 

This is the particular section of a previous post that, in my view, provided a better explanation for looking up the OM than just the "pining away for him" that we all assumed. I'm also glad that it has stopped, regardless of the reasons that it was happening.

[road]

I personally believe that CD's checking up on the other man was done more out of habit than longing. It has certainly stirred up a firestorm of disgust among members of LS as well as her husband. I think her feelings may be somewhat confused even now, but I don't think she deserves the vitriol that people are heaping on her at this time.

 

 

 

No it was longing. WW's affair cases addictive chemical reactions in their brain. This is why affairs restart. This is why there must be NC. Even indirect contact as looking at the OM's FB page is still breaking NC.

 

 

The WW will never detox from the OM as along as she keeps breaking NC whether direct or indirectly.

[revelations]

CD, truthfully you really need to sit down and think long and hard about what you are doing and how you are treating your husband. Ask yourself if your husband had been the one that cheated and responded the way you are would you stay with him?

 

You checking up on your xOM for what ever reason is part of NC as far as your husband is concerned. He tells you that he does not want to hear about it if your wondering about your xOM. The reason is every time he knows you are thinking about xOM it hurts him and fills him with doubt.

 

I will tell you that no one wants to be in a relationship with someone they feel they need to keep track of there every movement. I truly believe that your husband wants to trust you. However you have violated that trust in the worst way possible. You had an affair, and as a result of that your husband has laid down certain requirements he needs to build his trust back up. You will never have it back like it was pre-A however you can regain a good chunk of it. I would think that if part of build that trust means you do not google your xOM then you would avoid it at all cost.

 

I am not trying to be mean to you, however I have read through all of your threads. I will tell you that most men would not have even thought twice about walking out the door on you. I found out about my XWW threesome 10 years after the fact. Infidelity hurts and for some reason to most men it hurts worse when the wife does sexual acts for her xOM that she has not or will not do with her husband. Truthfully from what my feelings were is that I was being told "You are second best to him and here is the proof". Now right or wrong, that was and still is my perception of her actions.

 

You say that you guys are not divorcing, well good. However what do you want? Do you want a husband that actually trust you or do you want a husband that is putting up with you? One day you may push him too far and he will walk out that door, even years from now. It might even be over something small.

 

If you truly want to help your husbands hurt dissipate and build a marriage that you both want to be in then do some simple things. Accept that he requires you to preform some actions to build that trust up. Actually in your case it is lack of action, such as no more looking up xOM. It is pretty simple when you think about it, just don't look him up, don't drive by his place, no phone calls and whatever else your husband says is NC for him. Try and be proactive in nurturing that trust that you are getting little by little. If you say that you will be home at 4pm, be home at 4pm and not on the way home. Don't make him hunt through your email or phone, have it all setup for him to look at once a week or once a month. Show him that you are not only okay with him checking, but that you will want to show him that he has nothing to worry about. Now hallmark does not have a "Sorry I banged your best friend" card section, however a handmade card simply saying "You loved me and I took it for granted. I will never take you or your love for granted" would probably be very helpful.

 

When it comes to sex, remember every man is different about it. Most men see the sexual acts that you preform as a sign of your devotion to him. It shows that your love is unquestionable in his eyes. By doing something with your husband that you have never done before with him or anyone else is a big boost in sexual confidence. You may have to talk with him about it, however their are probably things he would like to try that you two have not done. Find out what they are and gleefully do them. Mind you that some of the worst sex for most men is the sex you get when your wife feels obligated to do it. So it is not just about fulfilling a fantasy for him, it is also about the willingness to do it. Some may not be possible, some you may have to disscuss a compromise, however the willingness will speak loud volumes to him.

 

If you sum this up, it is simple. Don't just tell him, show him that he is number 1 in your eyes (no body wants to be a #2). Respect him, he is a real person with real feelings. Understand that every time you break NC it hurts him. If you respect him then you will not do this. Be grateful he is still with you, after all for most people infidelity is a deal breaker. Express this gratitude to him, everything from something small like a card or large like a fishing trip or a special date night. You have been given a gift that most do not get, so start treating it that way. Remember the pleasure you got from your affair may have been short lived. However the pain your husband is in is very real and for him it will be with him the rest of his life. Your husband is paying the price for the rest of his life in one way or another for that short amount of pleasure you had with someone else. Truthfully infidelity has always reminded me of an atom bomb. That atom is split, and the amount of energy that is released is astounding. Much the same way that a small amount of pleasure can release an astounding amount of hurt and damage to people.

 

Okay I am done with my rant, however please CD at least consider what I am saying. I really do want to see both of you get through this and for the right reasons.

[Spark1111]

This is the particular section of a previous post that, in my view, provided a better explanation for looking up the OM than just the "pining away for him" that we all assumed. I'm also glad that it has stopped, regardless of the reasons that it was happening.

 

Agreed BH, but thos answers do not lie in seeing his face and activities on social web sites.

 

They lie within.

 

And as a newly BS, wouldn't you wonder why your WS, no matter their motivations, is up to and really feeling about the xAP?

 

If nothing else, is is hugely disrespectful to the feelings of your partner and can keep setting that recovery clock back to zero.

[BetrayedH]

Agreed BH, but thos answers do not lie in seeing his face and activities on social web sites.

 

They lie within.

 

And as a newly BS, wouldn't you wonder why your WS, no matter their motivations, is up to and really feeling about the xAP?

 

If nothing else, is is hugely disrespectful to the feelings of your partner and can keep setting that recovery clock back to zero.

 

Oh trust me, I get it. I don't mean to pile onto CD here but when I read CM's thread, my jaw was on the floor. I was like, OMG, WTF?! As I recall, it took me days to even type a post because I was so horribly sad and disappointed that I had no idea what to say. Much like you said recently, here she was being given the gift of a second chance and all the while, her poor husband is seeing her repeatedly and secretly searching for the OM for like a year. Truly, it was probably one of the most disappointing things I'd read her for a very long time and I was just waiting for CM to say he was done.

 

But as distressing as it was, I've seen more than a few successful reconciliations go thru these kinds of speedbumps - broken NC, another round of TT, etc - and still come out the other side. How many times did your H get kicked out of the house? Sadly, wayward thoughts and behaviors pretty much never stop immediately.

 

During my reconciliation, I made a big effort to look at intent. A lot of hurts were caused without mal-intent. In this case, CD has been told time and time again to be introspective, to process it all, to figure out her why, to fix what was broken - in short, to analyze it all to death. But at the same time, any "indirect" breach of even mental NC is a divorce-worthy offense. I'm not justifying it; I'm just saying it's a hell of a tall order to say that she's never going to think or wonder if it was "just sex," if she was just used, and if he's just moving on happily. She's processing it and sadly, this comes with the territory the vast majority of the time.

 

Do I think she should be looking in that direction for any kind of closure? Hell no. I agree with you. What was it that taramaiden used to say? "Closure is like vomit, it comes from within." I think the point was the chasing closure from the OM/OW is like looking for puke. Not many waywards get it, at least not right away.

 

But ultimately, as bad as this would have felt for CM, (if what CD says is to be believed) I don't think CDs intent was to breach NC with the OM or that she was longingly pining away for him, somehow wishing she were still with him. I really doubt that. And the difference in intent made a difference to me.

 

Either way, I think she's damn lucky that her husband is still with her. This feels like a third chance to me, particularly since these searches were done so privately without any mention to her H (or even here at LS, for that matter). That speaks to lies of omission and deception and any patience with that is truly a gift. I'm glad to see that it has stopped; hopefully that means growth.

[drifter777]

CD: you amaze me in that you always ask the wrong question. What is NC to you? Just how many ways are there to split this hair? NC is whatever your BH thinks it is. When you feel guilt about something, like stalking your OM, that is breaking NC. I think you know this in your heart but you are forever looking for reassurance that what you are doing is right. This need you have for external validation is one of the things that got you in bed with the OM to begin with. Your addiction to a man's attention to prove you are still "desired" is difficult to have satisfied with the man you live with 24/7. You will be at risk until you can change your spots.

 

And then you are asking for help regarding "year 2 of reconciliation" because it feels different but doesn't seem to be getting better. Wow. Why don't you just come out and say "All this aggravation over my affair is getting tiring. Why can't my BH just move on? Why can't he leave the past in the past? Why can't he just get over it?" Your narcissism in this area knows no bounds.

 

Go ahead and tell me how wrong I am. Or just ignore me like you do most posts that hit you with your selfish "poor me" outlook.

[veritas lux mea]

CD: you amaze me in that you always ask the wrong question. What is NC to you? Just how many ways are there to split this hair? NC is whatever your BH thinks it is. When you feel guilt about something, like stalking your OM, that is breaking NC. I think you know this in your heart but you are forever looking for reassurance that what you are doing is right. This need you have for external validation is one of the things that got you in bed with the OM to begin with. Your addiction to a man's attention to prove you are still "desired" is difficult to have satisfied with the man you live with 24/7. You will be at risk until you can change your spots.

 

And then you are asking for help regarding "year 2 of reconciliation" because it feels different but doesn't seem to be getting better. Wow. Why don't you just come out and say "All this aggravation over my affair is getting tiring. Why can't my BH just move on? Why can't he leave the past in the past? Why can't he just get over it?" Your narcissism in this area knows no bounds.

 

Go ahead and tell me how wrong I am. Or just ignore me like yu do most posts that hit you with your selfish "poor me" outlook.

 

 

Ouch! Harsh much? I get the feeling you are a damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of guy. A grudge holder who does not forgive past actions no matter what. I think this post is months old. And the second one is asking questions about the big unknown?

 

As someone who has screwed up a lot in the last 18months I get that this place is a place to let those conflicting emotions out and you can sort them. I don't know if CD really can be 100% honest here and I get that like not mentioning the random google curiousity. But I don't think she is one of the bad ones.

[compulsivedancer]

Go ahead and tell me how wrong I am. Or just ignore me like you do most posts that hit you with your selfish "poor me" outlook.

 

So....either agree with you or I suck?

 

Not responding is not the same as ignoring. Drifter, I take everything I read here to heart, including the stuff I don't like. That's WHY this place can be a challenge sometimes. And also part of the reason I like it. It's hard to grow if no one ever challenges you.

[toolforgrowth]

I can imagine that CM's trust level for you right now as at an all-time low. Every time you look up your xAP, the knife gets twisted in his heart a little but further. I read his thread, and I get the impression that he questions your devotion to him...as do I.

 

When it comes to BS's, talk is cheap from their WS. It's actions that really count. Any action that the WS takes that causes a continuation of their (x?)AP being in their lives at all is a huge red flag, and to me, a dealbreaker. Well, the infidelity itself is the dealbreaker for me, as once the cheating happens, I don't give second chances. They're done.

 

If I were CM, I'd divorce you immediately. That's what I did with my xWW. No R. Not even a glimmer of R. Once I had confirmation of her PA, that was it. I kicked her out of my life as much as humanly possible (we have a 6 year old daughter together). If she had done everything right to try and merit a second chance (which even if she had I still would have said no), one lookup about her xAP would have been it. She'd have been out the door. No follow up questions from me, no "Why did you do it?", no splitting hairs about what no contact means, nothing. She'd have been shown the curb.

 

NC means that person is dead to you. There is no point in even trying to communicate with or look up a dead person, because they're dead.

 

Your xAP is not dead to you.

 

I feel for you, CD. I really do. But I feel for CM a heck of a lot more. And I wonder when enough is going to be enough for him.

 

I feel like you're still taking him for granted. You seem so adamant that you're not getting a divorce. That adamance is the gateway that I feel you're taking to continue taking advantage of him. Why stop looking up the OM if you "know" you're not going to get a divorce?

 

That's why I always advocate divorce after infidelity. The divorce sets the stage and tells the WS that infidelity will not be tolerated. That, and if R doesn't work out, the divorce has already been settled. It tells the WS "Look, I've already got both feet out the door. What are you going to do about it?"

[gettingstronger]

Tool I glad your method has worked for you. But for me your last line sounds like a power struggle which is not a good thing. I am in reconciliation and it's a balance. It's understanding both have choices, both have needs and both need to put the marriage first. That's my issue with some of CDs actions is that she falls off the wagon sometimes and does not put the health of her marriage at the top. But, guess what I am also guilty of this so we all try to muddle through and do better. I think CD posts here because there tends to be more honesty and less cheerleading of destructive behaviors. JMO