Did you ever try to let BS know on the sly?

[canuckprincess]

Your man had multiple OW also? How fun. I was told it was "one girl one time" on fake DDay #1. It wasn't. It was many. Like, a LOT. And as much as my gut told me there was still something wrong, he was very convincing and swore on his dead grandmother he had just made that one mistake. So after a few months I took him back....

The way I found out about the "one girl one time" girl was a lovely black and pink thong (not mine) in a pillowcase.

 

Did he try to rugsweep and tell you that he bought you a present and hid it in your pillowcase lol. Ok sorry not funny but I'm sure some mm could or would come up with a creative explanation as to why they were there.

[j'adore]

Wow...........

That is just spiteful

[Got it]

I didn't even think about that, not being certain you could keep no contact... NC is so hard.

 

This might get my BS card revoked (good I don't want it anyway)

But, I think something that is nearly impossible for BS's to fathom is that, sometimes their WS should be with AP, not them... It's not like there is a cookie cutter magic formula that dictates WS has to do R and all that- sometimes they dont act like it was a big mistake and put 150% effort into saving the marriage because... They don't want to. Maybe they try to make it look good for awhile because of shame and guilt, but their heart is with AP. what can you do?

 

It's just so sad that we all waste so much time in agony waiting for a man to just... Finally tell the truth. I sincerely think that is what is wrong with the whole system- not enough honesty, because of fear or a feeling of obligation, or a number of other unfortunate emotions that would be so much easier to deal with without all the confusion of lies and false promises surrounding it. Sometimes that band aid just needs to be ripped off.

 

I don't think the BS needs to understand that, it is the person who is the center of the triangle who needs to figure it out. They have full ability and autonomy to make decisions on what they want to do. Having been a WS I have little sympathy for the martyr role. Man up and make a decision. Anything else is just unfair.

 

And I also don't think that anyone needs to wait around for a decision. Be in the affair if it works for you but if you want something different you don't need him to make a decision. You can walk. If he moves fast enough then maybe he can catch up, if not then you are on to your glorious life and he is the sucker who didn't realize what he had when he had it. And who wants to be with a sucker?

 

Forcing a dday doesn't mean that there will be a decision. A MP can still fight to stay in limbo and straddling both sides. If you do it, do it and walk. Don't do it because you want him to pick.

 

Everyone is where they want to be. He is exactly where he wants to be at this moment. Accept it or not. But don't try and play games to force a change.

[Betterthanthis13]

Did he try to rugsweep and tell you that he bought you a present and hid it in your pillowcase lol. Ok sorry not funny but I'm sure some mm could or would come up with a creative explanation as to why they were there.

 

This gave me a good laugh this morning! That was funny.

 

It would be funnier though, if it didn't have a grain of truth to it- I think WS are so affected by their own lying after awhile that they end up telling some bizarre, crazy stories to cover their tracks, which is kind of sad. It sucks for the person being lied to whether its BS or AP, or both, but it's also bad for WS- living his life in a perpetual state of deception causes him the most problems of anyone in the situation in the long run , I think.

[Betterthanthis13]

But..here's the thing...and I am floored by these last two posts because it is intense and so vivid in its detail, and I can feel your pain and I KNOW I would've been the same, despite my protests that everyone should "get a grip,"

Here's the question though...

 

Don't you think Reconciliation itself is a form of Agreement to the New Normal?

 

Aren't you really just saying cheating is a forgivable sin? And in doing so, doesn't it make sense that the WS go back and try cheating again?...because he got a way with it. What's a few handed over passwords, GPS on your car, no nights out with the boys, hours of MC and IC, monitored emails and internet time, surprise visits at work, and family gatherings?...how does all that inconvenience compare to the FUN of having illicit sex? If illicit sex is the funnest thing you can think of doing...all that other stuff you can "handle". The way a prisoner handles all the inconveniences of prison. To some, prison is a consequence, to the hardened criminal, prison is a place for free health care, cable and a gym. I'm thinking specifically of serial cheaters and guys like a certain NY Mayoral candidate in the news these days.

 

YES- agree agree agree. This post is very insightful.

 

There are varying degrees of WS pathology, but the serial cheater (hardened criminal in your example) often is so messed up he is unlikely of being able to be "rehabilitated" , it would take a massive amount of self-analysis on his part, and he is unfit for any relationship until he confronts his own demons and figures out how to live his life authentically. The possibility of that kind of recovery is slim to none, especially if he has sociopathic or NPD characteristics.

Reconciliation just provides the facade of "working on things" and it doesn't address the deep issues within a WS like that so it's pointless to even try.

 

However, WS's who aren't as disturbed and have less individual issues to overcome can possibly thrive and grow and be happy in R with BS, or in a new relationship with AP, or alone, depending on the specifics of the situation and if they start making life choices based on being honest with themselves.

[waterwoman]

Aren't you really just saying cheating is a forgivable sin? And in doing so, doesn't it make sense that the WS go back and try cheating again?...because he got a way with it. What's a few handed over passwords, GPS on your car, no nights out with the boys, hours of MC and IC, monitored emails and internet time, surprise visits at work, and family gatherings?...how does all that inconvenience compare to the FUN of having illicit sex?

 

All sins are forgivable aren't they? I thought that was the point of Christianity. Anyhoo... if the WS in question is a particularly selfish unempathetic human being you may be right with your comment. I don't think H feels he has 'got away with' anything. He has been to hell and back this year with me. He was blown away by the pain I have been in. If he COULD do that again I am as sure as I can be he isn't the man I think he is and I wouldn't want him in that case. I don't think there will be a second affair and there sure as hell won't be a second reconciliation.

[Betterthanthis13]

I don't think the BS needs to understand that, it is the person who is the center of the triangle who needs to figure it out. They have full ability and autonomy to make decisions on what they want to do. Having been a WS I have little sympathy for the martyr role. Man up and make a decision. Anything else is just unfair.

 

And I also don't think that anyone needs to wait around for a decision. Be in the affair if it works for you but if you want something different you don't need him to make a decision. You can walk. If he moves fast enough then maybe he can catch up, if not then you are on to your glorious life and he is the sucker who didn't realize what he had when he had it. And who wants to be with a sucker?

 

Forcing a dday doesn't mean that there will be a decision. A MP can still fight to stay in limbo and straddling both sides. If you do it, do it and walk. Don't do it because you want him to pick.

 

Everyone is where they want to be. He is exactly where he wants to be at this moment. Accept it or not. But don't try and play games to force a change.

 

I absolutely agree with what you are saying- I should rephrase or further explain my post- I am in no way advocating "waiting" for a WS to make a decision. The fact that we do "wait around" for him/her over and over as a pattern is in and of itself tragic.

It also seems to be the "normal" thing to do, for AP during the A, and BS after DDay- they both do the same stupid thing. Wait for WS to make up his/her mind. Why is that? We can only control ourselves and our own actions. But both BS and AP seem to think with the same bad logic in these situations "Waiting" is actually counterproductive and the least likely method to work, if what is truly wanted is a good relationship with WS. It's a tug of war situation with WS in the middle of the rope. Even if BS manage to pull hard enough to get the rope out of AP's hand and WS comes flying over at her and lands at her feet in a crying mess of fake promises, he can just stand back up and start the tug of war over again. The only effective method to stop the game is for BS and AP to drop the rope so he has to walk to where he wants to be-there is no "winning" this game.

 

However, sometimes the AP is pulling strong on the rope, and BS isn't even interested in playing until after DDAy, then she wants to pick up the rope and pull hard- but more out of a desire to "win the game" than an actual desire to fix the burnt down remains of the marriage. She just doesn't like change- and refuses to accept that WS is already gone in spirit. His heart is with AP but she has leverage because she's got her family and kids now to help her pull that damn rope, and she does not want to lose.

 

 

BS and AP reactions to this game are generally natural and predictable, even though there are some exceptions. Placing blame and pressuring these two to "do the right thing" is the wrong move. The onus of creating the game falls on WS. He appears helpless, but he is the one with all the power.

 

The whole exhausting game is preventable----WS had the choice from the beginning, and throughout the whole ordeal, to be radically honest with himself, get up the courage to express his needs, and willingness to work toward the changes needed to satisfy those needs in an ethical manner. That rarely happens. And he is not living in a vaccuum either- there are always outside forces putting various degrees of pressure on him, making it difficult to "do the right thing". That's where all the justifications start, and allows him to rationalize creating and maintaining the game.

 

In the end of a tug of war game, most of the time everyone ends up bruised and scraped and down on the ground covered in mud.

[Betterthanthis13]

You know... I read this somewhere, so I am paraphrasing...there's a reason why, in the Bible, stories of reform and change are touted as Miracles! Because people rarely change. Only when they fully take it upon themselves...make it their life's mission--is it possible. And even then... Therapy has its limits as I've said before. I am utterly obsessed with/fascinated by the field of psychology, and I use a shrink because I'll be damned if I can figure things out without help (it's like paying to have a tribal Elder at your disposal, but they are limited by the beliefs of the culture,) but, despite years of being a consumer of the therapy industry, I take everything with a grain of salt. Anecdotally, I have seen only some instances of genuine reform in my lifetime--it happens, though, and it IS a miracle. A wonderful miracle. But only sometimes…

 

Yes, definitely. I do a similar thing with my therapist- I use her as a guide to point me in the right direction, but I take the responsibility to make any change within myself, and that is work- if you go to therapy or counseling once a week and that is the only effort made to change anything, you might as well not go. Progress will be slow, if any progress happens at all.

[Betterthanthis13]

My advice to all BS's everywhere would be to completely abandon your man for like two years. And then see what he does to prove himself. I think the 180, the complete 180, is the only real shot. And I think the best way to do that is to have your own A

 

Oh no!! that's where I disagree.

I agree with the leaving him alone part, for however long it takes him to get his head out of his ass. If the head-from-ass extraction doesn't start happening in a reasonable amount of time, OH WELL- at least BS has some distance from him, a better perspective, more autonomy and it will be easier to make a clean break.

 

But I am vehemently against revenge affairs. If the marriage is over and BS starts dating because she is trying to move on with life, that's one thing and that is healthy and ok. But no affairs, 2 wrongs never make a right.

[Got it]

I absolutely agree with what you are saying- I should rephrase or further explain my post- I am in no way advocating "waiting" for a WS to make a decision. The fact that we do "wait around" for him/her over and over as a pattern is in and of itself tragic.

It also seems to be the "normal" thing to do, for AP during the A, and BS after DDay- they both do the same stupid thing. Wait for WS to make up his/her mind. Why is that? We can only control ourselves and our own actions. But both BS and AP seem to think with the same bad logic in these situations "Waiting" is actually counterproductive and the least likely method to work, if what is truly wanted is a good relationship with WS. It's a tug of war situation with WS in the middle of the rope. Even if BS manage to pull hard enough to get the rope out of AP's hand and WS comes flying over at her and lands at her feet in a crying mess of fake promises, he can just stand back up and start the tug of war over again. The only effective method to stop the game is for BS and AP to drop the rope so he has to walk to where he wants to be-there is no "winning" this game.

 

However, sometimes the AP is pulling strong on the rope, and BS isn't even interested in playing until after DDAy, then she wants to pick up the rope and pull hard- but more out of a desire to "win the game" than an actual desire to fix the burnt down remains of the marriage. She just doesn't like change- and refuses to accept that WS is already gone in spirit. His heart is with AP but she has leverage because she's got her family and kids now to help her pull that damn rope, and she does not want to lose.

 

 

BS and AP reactions to this game are generally natural and predictable, even though there are some exceptions. Placing blame and pressuring these two to "do the right thing" is the wrong move. The onus of creating the game falls on WS. He appears helpless, but he is the one with all the power.

 

The whole exhausting game is preventable----WS had the choice from the beginning, and throughout the whole ordeal, to be radically honest with himself, get up the courage to express his needs, and willingness to work toward the changes needed to satisfy those needs in an ethical manner. That rarely happens. And he is not living in a vaccuum either- there are always outside forces putting various degrees of pressure on him, making it difficult to "do the right thing". That's where all the justifications start, and allows him to rationalize creating and maintaining the game.

 

In the end of a tug of war game, most of the time everyone ends up bruised and scraped and down on the ground covered in mud.

 

I think the behavior is similar because both want the same result, the person. So if they pull back you must pursue. Each party has free will to respond however they want, the reason most stay on the merry go round because of being afraid if you take your toys and go home no one will pursue you.

 

So you blink. You don't test it. Because testing it may be a gamble that you don't want to lose. But the thing is, you pursue and you have most likely lost already.

 

But regardless it is hard. You want that person, you want them so bad that you bleed for it, and it seems so counterproductive to walk away from that. I think may have to take however long they need to just get done. Like done done. At some point ego kicks in saying enough. That point varies.

 

It is odd and stupid but there is some credence to the saying, the one that cares least wins.

[skylarblue]

Just curious, if during the A (past or present), you ever "accidentally on purpose" (or just flat out on purpose) did little things to try to make BS suspicious?

 

Like, drop an earring in the car, text late at night, etc...

 

If so, why? What types of things did you do? What was your motivation? What made you drop hints instead of contacting her ananamously or having a friend pretend to be a concerned 3rd party?

 

If you were very very careful to keep the affair a secret, why? What was your motivation?

 

Thanks

 

Yes, I've done things during the A to fuel or confirm the W's suspicions. I've purposefully, a couple of times, left hair strands in their bedroom (we have different hair color and length) and moved things around on her nightstand (both things he said be careful not to do). On separate occasions, I've accidentally left panties (truly an accident) and a broken acrylic nail in the car that they shared, but purposefully didn't notify him when I realized it later. I'd called him at times when I knew/thought she'd be around like dinner time or wear perfume to leave a scent on him.

 

Why? I'm not really sure. I mean, consciously I know the reason. I found some kind of twisted enjoyment in causing the W that type of anguish. I felt a sense of pride, accomplishment, and validation in being the woman behind her suspicions. I guess, at some point it, it became not enough for me to know I was sleeping with her H. I needed her to suspect/"know" I (someone) was sleeping with him to. I didn't really want her know with undeniable proof (I didn't want to be with him legitimately or his M to end), but I wanted her to always know in her heart and gut that he cheated. What I can't explain is why doing and causing something like that became so relevant/significant to me.

[Betterthanthis13]

Yes, I've done things during the A to fuel or confirm the W's suspicions. I've purposefully, a couple of times, left hair strands in their bedroom (we have different hair color and length) and moved things around on her nightstand (both things he said be careful not to do). On separate occasions, I've accidentally left panties (truly an accident) and a broken acrylic nail in the car that they shared, but purposefully didn't notify him when I realized it later. I'd called him at times when I knew/thought she'd be around like dinner time or wear perfume to leave a scent on him.

 

Why? I'm not really sure. I mean, consciously I know the reason. I found some kind of twisted enjoyment in causing the W that type of anguish. I felt a sense of pride, accomplishment, and validation in being the woman behind her suspicions. I guess, at some point it, it became not enough for me to know I was sleeping with her H. I needed her to suspect/"know" I (someone) was sleeping with him to. I didn't really want her know with undeniable proof (I didn't want to be with him legitimately or his M to end), but I wanted her to always know in her heart and gut that he cheated. What I can't explain is why doing and causing something like that became so relevant/significant to me.

 

Thanks a lot for this answer- what you described is similar to what I imagined. I think when I posted the OP I expected a lot of replies tht would be like yours, because I tried to put mysef in the scenario in my head and this is pretty much what I thought *I* would do.

 

It is surprising to get some of the replies I did- which is a good thing- What that tells me, is that I may have a good idea of how SOME AP's think sometimes, but really there are so many different ways of thinking, it's really hard to make assumptions about what someone "must be thinking" when you don't know them very well, and you are making guesses based on little to no facts.

 

What I'm saying is, the girl who left the thong in bf's pillowcase MIGHT have been thinking this way, but maybe she was thinking something totally different. Or maybe it was a freak accident and she didn't leave them on purpose. The only way I would ever really know is if I called her and ask her, assuming she would even tell me the truth. (I'm not going to do that btw)

 

Anyway, thanks

[skylarblue]

I'm totally speculating here, but my first thought is she didn't put the panties in the pillowcase he did. If he was just meeting random girls for sex, I doubt she'd be concerned with leaving some type of calling card. My thought is it was left accidentally. He saw it and hid it in the pillowcase (a place he thought was safe from you discovering) for the time-being, and just forgot about it. xMM found mine and stuck it in his pants pocket. Again, that's just my first thought, but that doesn't mean she simply couldn't just have been a f*cked individually doing a f*cked up thing.

[bentleychic]

No, I haven't. If I text at night, it's b/c I need/want to tell him something. He has always said that texting any time of day or night is totally fine. It's when I get upset and start rabidly blowing up his phone that creates a problem. (I can be long winded. Text is bad for that.) If she finds out, she finds out, but I will not be the reason why or the bearer of that news.

 

His hope is for her to never find out and never be hurt. I don't want to hurt her b/c I know he would be hurt if she was.

 

I'm sure that makes no sense considering what I am doing.

[ComingInHot]

Bentliechick,

It actually makes sense to me reading where you are at in the progression of your A. I believe (and OP correct me of I'm wrong), as the A feelings develop, more is wanted out of it & that is where an AP & even a WS will want to see forward motion to something more than an A relationship. How does or can this happen?? Well, by having a D-day.

How does one get a D-day? Someone or something has to inform the BS.

 

A D-day can be a good way to force forward motion of the A relationship. However, that forward motion/progression can catapult the A relationship into a "out in the open" relationship leading to the the M couple D'ing or end the A and relationship dead in it's tracks.

There is a progression in every relationship. It grows and remains, or comes to an end. Either way takes commitment and work*

[bentleychic]

I definitely want more. That's what I've been told would happen from day 1. There's been a time line in place. If there wasn't, I wouldn't be here (quite frankly). I love him, I hope we some day have together what he's promised (at this point), but I'm not going to pull the trigger on it and if the time comes that I am sure there's no future (or when I'm sick of it, whichever comes first), I'm walking and he is very well aware of this. I'm not really comfy sharing a lot of details on the wheres/whys/hows of how things are supposed to progress (IF they truly do, though social media networks of them both point to him telling me the truth on it), though since it's a very specific situation and again, I'm not going to even take the chance of being the gunman.

[canuckprincess]

I definitely want more. That's what I've been told would happen from day 1. There's been a time line in place. If there wasn't, I wouldn't be here (quite frankly). I love him, I hope we some day have together what he's promised (at this point), but I'm not going to pull the trigger on it and if the time comes that I am sure there's no future (or when I'm sick of it, whichever comes first), I'm walking and he is very well aware of this. I'm not really comfy sharing a lot of details on the wheres/whys/hows of how things are supposed to progress (IF they truly do, though social media networks of them both point to him telling me the truth on it), though since it's a very specific situation and again, I'm not going to even take the chance of being the gunman.

 

I hope if your deadline comes and he hasn't left his marriage that you can find the strength to walk away. I have had deadline after deadline and still not strong enough to follow through. Best of luck to you, I truly mean that.

[bentleychic]

I hope if your deadline comes and he hasn't left his marriage that you can find the strength to walk away. I have had deadline after deadline and still not strong enough to follow through. Best of luck to you, I truly mean that.

 

I hope so, too. I really do.

 

It's so funny (not ha ha), when I want to, I can see this for what it is, the utter brutal truth of it and what it's likely to turn out to end up as. I can be completely and utterly honest with myself about this relationship. However, I am just not willing to end it right now, even fully knowing that there's probably no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow colored roller coaster. THAT is what I am truly not sure of. Why stay even knowing what I know now? I always chalk it up to love, but surely I could love someone single and available just as easily (if not more so).

[canuckprincess]

I hope so, too. I really do.

 

It's so funny (not ha ha), when I want to, I can see this for what it is, the utter brutal truth of it and what it's likely to turn out to end up as. I can be completely and utterly honest with myself about this relationship. However, I am just not willing to end it right now, even fully knowing that there's probably no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow colored roller coaster. THAT is what I am truly not sure of. Why stay even knowing what I know now? I always chalk it up to love, but surely I could love someone single and available just as easily (if not more so).

 

How long have you been with your mm? How often do you get together?

[bentleychic]

Been together almost a year. We see each other generally 2x a week, sometimes less, sometimes more depending on our work schedules and my kids. We talk daily during the week and have contact pretty much 7 days a week in some capacity or another.

[LilGirlandOW]

I hope so, too. I really do.

 

It's so funny (not ha ha), when I want to, I can see this for what it is, the utter brutal truth of it and what it's likely to turn out to end up as. I can be completely and utterly honest with myself about this relationship. However, I am just not willing to end it right now, even fully knowing that there's probably no pot of gold at the end of the rainbow colored roller coaster. THAT is what I am truly not sure of. Why stay even knowing what I know now? I always chalk it up to love, but surely I could love someone single and available just as easily (if not more so).

 

I feel the exact same way too, sorry your so conflicted, it sucks it keeps popping up like a voice on your shoulder... like the great gazoo on the flintstones.. reminding ya.

[Cocochai]

Bentliechick,

It actually makes sense to me reading where you are at in the progression of your A. I believe (and OP correct me of I'm wrong), as the A feelings develop, more is wanted out of it & that is where an AP & even a WS will want to see forward motion to something more than an A relationship. How does or can this happen?? Well, by having a D-day.

How does one get a D-day? Someone or something has to inform the BS.

 

A D-day can be a good way to force forward motion of the A relationship. However, that forward motion/progression can catapult the A relationship into a "out in the open" relationship leading to the the M couple D'ing or end the A and relationship dead in it's tracks.

There is a progression in every relationship. It grows and remains, or comes to an end. Either way takes commitment and work*

 

 

Please explain what a D-day is.

[canuckprincess]

Please explain what a D-day is.

 

Dday means discovery day, the day the bs catches you or the day someone tells the bs about the affair. Here's the kicker some bs will have dday after dday and do nothing about it.

[Betterthanthis13]

Dday means discovery day, the day the bs catches you or the day someone tells the bs about the affair. Here's the kicker some bs will have dday after dday and do nothing about it.

 

A couple pages back in the thread we were talking about my DDay with the thong in the pillowcase. Maybe it will help you guys understand if I explain more details about what happened and the ridiculous things he said to try to make me not think he was cheating on me so you understand why BS doesn't leave.

 

Id been with this guy for about a year and a half. When I moved in to his place, it was a mess. He had lived by himself for a long time and I don't think he ever cleaned his place. Gross. The first time I cleaned I found things under the bed from other girls that were old but at the time it wasn't a big deal because they were obviously old and dusty. I got some tongs from the kitchen and was making fun of him using them to pick things up and put them in a garbage bag. He was helping me clean and move furniture around. He was really happy to have me move in. He moved all my furniture from my old place with his friend and worked really hard to change his place from a bachelor pad to a nice home.

 

We spent months doing little Home Depot projects and he started cooking, which he had never really done before- and really got into. He would look up a recipe on the internet , then would call me from the grocery store all excited and explaining what he was going to cook, and we were having a really great time. We bought a puppy. We were going to the gym together every night. Sex was great and often. We are both athletic and adventurous. When we fought we would try to talk it out without yelling or name calling.

 

Ok so I had been living there about 5 months and I had to go away for work for 2 days, and when I got back I put my suitcase in the bedroom and laid down on the bed where he was there watching tv, and he cuddled up to me and started kissing me and stuff. We didn't have a headboard at that house and the pillows always got smushed in between the bed and the wall. After we had sex the bed was a wreck and I was getting all the pillows out as usual and a pink and black thong fell out of a pillowcase.

"What the #%$ is THAT ?????" Pointing at them.

He looked over, calm as a cucumber. "Um... your panties?"

"They aren't mine. What the f*ck!!!"

"Calm down, I don't know... it's nothing, don't worry. I'm so sorry, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. You just got all those pillows from behind the bed. I can't say exactly but I'm guessing it was there from a long time ago, remember when you first moved in, and we cleaned my place and found all that girl crap- you know I was a slob. I'd never do anything to hurt you, you know that. I feel terrible, you were such a good sport about helping me clean when you moved in, you never should have seen any of that. I will pull the whole bed out of here right now and tear this whole room apart and make sure there is no trace of anything else, please let's just relax and have a good night. I missed you so much when you were gone the past two days. I was on the phone with you every night, you know that. Come on baby"

[jlola]

A couple pages back in the thread we were talking about my DDay with the thong in the pillowcase. Maybe it will help you guys understand if I explain more details about what happened and the ridiculous things he said to try to make me not think he was cheating on me so you understand why BS doesn't leave.

 

Id been with this guy for about a year and a half. When I moved in to his place, it was a mess. He had lived by himself for a long time and I don't think he ever cleaned his place. Gross. The first time I cleaned I found things under the bed from other girls that were old but at the time it wasn't a big deal because they were obviously old and dusty. I got some tongs from the kitchen and was making fun of him using them to pick things up and put them in a garbage bag. He was helping me clean and move furniture around. He was really happy to have me move in. He moved all my furniture from my old place with his friend and worked really hard to change his place from a bachelor pad to a nice home.

 

We spent months doing little Home Depot projects and he started cooking, which he had never really done before- and really got into. He would look up a recipe on the internet , then would call me from the grocery store all excited and explaining what he was going to cook, and we were having a really great time. We bought a puppy. We were going to the gym together every night. Sex was great and often. We are both athletic and adventurous. When we fought we would try to talk it out without yelling or name calling.

 

Ok so I had been living there about 5 months and I had to go away for work for 2 days, and when I got back I put my suitcase in the bedroom and laid down on the bed where he was there watching tv, and he cuddled up to me and started kissing me and stuff. We didn't have a headboard at that house and the pillows always got smushed in between the bed and the wall. After we had sex the bed was a wreck and I was getting all the pillows out as usual and a pink and black thong fell out of a pillowcase.

"What the #%$ is THAT ?????" Pointing at them.

He looked over, calm as a cucumber. "Um... your panties?"

"They aren't mine. What the f*ck!!!"

"Calm down, I don't know... it's nothing, don't worry. I'm so sorry, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. You just got all those pillows from behind the bed. I can't say exactly but I'm guessing it was there from a long time ago, remember when you first moved in, and we cleaned my place and found all that girl crap- you know I was a slob. I'd never do anything to hurt you, you know that. I feel terrible, you were such a good sport about helping me clean when you moved in, you never should have seen any of that. I will pull the whole bed out of here right now and tear this whole room apart and make sure there is no trace of anything else, please let's just relax and have a good night. I missed you so much when you were gone the past two days. I was on the phone with you every night, you know that. Come on baby"

 

 

This is the very reason why I just shake my head when people insist the marriage/relationship must have been bad in the first place for the cheater to cheat. They are simply using their emotions and listening to the cheater.

 

In my observation, I have rarely seen the person who was putting the most into the relationship cheat. I was usually not surprised to know which one was the cheater.In fact only once can I say, I was surprised which one ended up cheating.

 

They were usually the "flirty" one of the couple, or the one who was difficult to please. Or the selfish one. I often see giving too much sometimes has the opposite effect in many relationships. There are books written about this.

 

 

The one who is "catered" to in the relationship sometimes thinks they are special and entitled.

 

I look at hollywood affairs or political ones and it is not difficult to see how human nature works. Someone does not have to be an actor or politician to feel entitlement,greed, selfishness, have a large ego,immature, unrealistic expectations of what it takes to have a true love lasting relationship. Many think the feelings of butterflies,love at first sight and "they make me happy" are true love. You see actors talk about their new "soulmates" with stars in their eyes one day and a few years later hear of the nasty divorce chasing another soulmate. Meanwhile, the one left behind does not know what hit them since the marriage seemed good.

 

But they met someone new and they had to chase the butterflies again, we all know how that goes. He/she again is then "over the top" with the new person. Well, at least for awhile anyway. New person thinks they are really specail and do not understand this person can be prone to cheat on anyone they are with.

 

There are actors/actresses who are married to good people. Politicians who are also. But they have that entitlement personality and no matter how high someone jumps for them, they cannot be satisfied with one person.

 

Once the honeymoon period ends or they find easy sex, they will take it.

 

I wish the "relationship must have been bad in the first place for them to cheat" camp would wake up t reality and understand, some people are never satisfied.

 

Look at the countless rich people who can never spend their wealth in their lifetime. Some even living in poverty ridden countries. But will try to accumulate more wealth at the expense of others. It does not make sense to me. But greed is greed and entitlement is entitlement ,selfishness is selfishness and huge egos are huge egos.