Trying to understand a MM mind.

[Shiraz]

Hello, I'm a newbee here. I've read a lot of the posting, and finally feel like I want to communicate with some of you. I'm one of those awful OW. I have being seeing my MM for 3 years now. I love him very much, and I do bleive it's mutual. I just wish I could understand why this happens, what goes through their heads. I keep finding articles that say, guys do it just for the sex. Well I believe that there is always an exception to the rule. My MM met me, when I had just seperated. I was also dealing with sexual abuse issues from 25 years ago. He stayed with me through a wicked period of depression. Tears, frustration. How can you say he was with me for the sex. This guy loves his wife, and claims they have a great home life, good sex. Do you think it's possible that 's true? If so, why would he want me on the side?

 

I don't need to get a blast from anyone here, I do feel builty for my actions. But one thing I have learned over the years. Do't judge people. You never know what your future holds for you...

[izzybelle]

for some it may be just for the sex. but for others, it's more, or something else. my relationship with my MM was not just based on sex. don't get me wrong.... that was and incredibly wonderful part of it. but we live hundreds of miles apart and 90% of our relationship was email and phone. i got to know him better, and vice versa, than anyone ever had before. the emotional connection we had, and i do believe it was mutual, was nothing like i'd ever experienced before.

 

for me, i'm sure there were some physical things that were lacking in his relationship (from what he said, a lot but we'll assume he wad exaggerating), but in many ways, i think he missed the emotional attachment he had had with his life. although i heard the typical, she doesn't listen to me, she doesn't care what i do in life, she doesn't want to share my accomplishments, i do think there was something behind all of it. i know he really appreciated the attention, even if it was long distance. but what person, doesn't like having someone really care about what happens to them on a daily basis? i'm sure they had fallen into habits of neither really asking or caring how the other person's day was, i did. and he grabbed hold of that as tight as he could and would talk for hours about anything. i think he was lonely and i was there.

 

but when the W found out we ended. don't know if he can repair the damage, but for me, i lost my best friend. he filled needs for me too and right or wrong, it's hard when someone walks out of your life. even if you know in your heart that they're doing what they should.

[Shiraz]

Okay, you sound like your in my shoes big time, and first of all, I want to say thanks for responding. It's nice to talk to some one who understands.

 

My MM doesn't say anything about his wife, other than, he loves her (I asked him if he did). They have a good sex life, and home life is good. THey have 4 young kids, so I have to really wonder if they have sex twice a week. It just boggles me. If things are so great, why do they go elsewhere.

 

MM and myself are good buddies to. Chat, laugh, we love cooking together. IT's a shame, we'll never be together. How did your MM's wife find out about the affair? I don't think my MM's wife even has a clue? It's been three years.

 

Are you still hurting? You think he misses you?

[izzybelle]

she found an email. evidentally the email on his blackberry wasn't password protected!

 

mine said he was no longer in love with his wife and they she had said numerous times that she was leaving him. we really did think that we were going to be together. didn't work out that way, and i'm not sure that he and his wife will make it through this together or whether they're just bandaiding the situation until their youngest leaves for college next year. sometimes i want to wait and see if that's the case, but i can't put my life on hold for that many what ifs.

 

yes, i do think he misses me. we were a big part of each other's lives and used to talk endlessly through email and on the phone. i'm not sure his home life has changed all that drastically and i think he feels the void, as well. but he says he's committed to giving his marriage one more try.

 

as for me... some days i feel a lot stronger and ready to move on. but other days, like today, it hurts like it's new all over again. sometimes it's dreams that bring it all back and other days it's a song or something else stupid reminds me of him. in time, i know this will pass and i'll move on. i have to be hopeful. he says he misses me and i do think this is hard for him as well. but then again, what he's going through with his W can't be easy. but i miss the friendship more than anything else. well.... maybe not more but as much anyway.

 

i know it's hard for anyone who hasn't been there to understand. they don't understand how someone can fall so much in love knowing that they aren't, may not, or never will be available. it's not easy to explain, it just happens, and as many of us have painfully, or hopefully not so painfully, discovered, we can't always choose who we fall in love with.

[Shiraz]

FIrst things first, I'm sending you a huge hug. I'm sorry your having a bad day today. Your a smart woman though, realizing that it will get better.

 

I'm feeling weird today to. My MM and I had gone away for 3 days. He was on a business trip. Coming home, we stopped and he got a little something for his kids, and a box of chocolates for his wife. Call me stuipid, It really bothered me, that he got his wife chocolates. He was with another woman, but thought to get her something. It was strange. Anyways, I got all insecure, and when I spoke to him about it, he gave me a really cold respond. Needless to say, I didn't sleep last night, I just kept ripping him apart in my head. Wanting to end it, and stand up for mmyself. But I'm so afraid of being a lone for the rst of my life. I HATE BEING ALONE, probably more than anything. I love affection, and having a close friend.

 

Do you date? Do you get attention from other men? I get some attention, but no one I would ate. I guess I have some protective walls around me, not wanting to be hurt anymore. (my marriage was a toughy)

[izzybelle]

thanks for the hug!

 

that has to have been weird about the chocolates... could say that i guess he's comfortable with you or i could say that he didn't think through the feelings that might create!!! the weirdest thing about my split with my MM (and i know some would say that i just believed what i wanted) but we had gotten so emotionally, and physically close, that when he decided to try to work things out with his wife, i felt like i had been cheated on. hard concept to understand, i know since i was the OW. but he had come to depend on me for most of the emotional and physical needs in his relationship. said he felt like all he was to her was "a paycheck." and i know there are many who may tell me i was crazy to feel that way, but that was how i felt.

 

as for dating. not yet, not since this all happened. i've built some pretty high walls around myself and it's going to be difficult for someone to break through them at this point. plus.... most of the men i know are married! and many of them are having problems with their marriages....i'm in my 40s and have decided that it's an age thing! my kids keep me busy, i had a bad marriage too. and that complicates things as well. deciding that it's ok to fall in love again and then making yet another bad choice takes it's toll! i hate being alone too and sometimes that's the hardest part and part of why my walls are there. the last thing i want is to get involved just because i don't want to be alone.

 

do you think you'll end things with yours or are you willing to just go on as usual?

[Shiraz]

Will I leave my MM, not likely. I love him, I can't just shut that off. He's done so much for me. Really deep stuff. I was abused many years ago, and he came to my councelling appointments with me. WOuld wait for me. Take me home and watch me fall apart, and just hold me. He's been very good to me.

 

I don't think he thought of anything when he bought the chocolates. I was just jealous. I get very jealous of his wife. I hate the fact, that she gets to sleep beside him every night. I love when he calls in me at mind-night or 3:30 in the morning, bcause he fell asleep on the coach. I feel woo hoo, he didn't sleep with her. Okay, are you laughing at my stupidity yet?

 

I wish there was a button we could shut off our emotions, or I wish I could just think of him as a boy toy, but I can't. I think of him as a caring person, gentle.

 

Oh man, if you only knew some of the stupid thoughts I get in my head about his wife. Some times I would love to tell her about us. But I honestly don't think she would leave him.

[izzybelle]

he sounds very supportive and i completely understand why you won't say goodbye. i know there would be some out there that will simply say that there are single guys who could provide you with the same things plus the "only you" committment. and it's easy to say that you'll let go of the MM to find that. and i knew i should have too before i fell in too deep. but.... oh well, it happened anyway.

 

sorry you've had such a tough time and it's nice that he's been there for you. no, i won't laugh at your "stupidity," been there and i think that in any relationship there are "stupid" things that we do. it's just that i know in many ways being involved with an MM from the start is "stupid." i used to save voice mail messages just to be able to hear his voice when i wanted and i still have countless emails. and yes, although i knew what he told me about his relationship with his W indicated that they weren't sleeping together, still don't think they are to be honest, but i always felt better when he was on the road in a hotel somewhere alone. i think it's hard for many to realize how attached we become even when we know it's going nowhere. and they put us on a pedestal like many of them do. what we don't realize because we get so caught up in the feelings that by doing that, it gives us farther to fall.

 

do you think eventually you'll need to let go and move on? i'd say you deserve more and better, and someone who can devote all of themselves to you. and you do. but i understand how you feel! and why you don't want to let go.

[Shiraz]

I really do hope I meet some one. I'm 38 with two children. Baggage I don't think a lot of people want. But they are my life.

 

Do I want to meet some one, in a huge way. Am I afraid, in a huge way. I think the safety with a married man, is you know, he won't move in and take over, manipulate and put you down. I think with a MM you know you won't have to give him half of everything you have. To start over would be devistating. And being settled in a relationship righ tnow, don't have to put myself out there to get hurt.

 

I wish ebay sold courage.... I'd like to be the lion on Wizzard of Oz! LOL.

 

Do you like talking about your affair? Do you find it helps you? Mentally?

[Shiraz]

Just started another talk. I am curious if any marreid woman will talk about their feelings

 

I have been with MM for three years. He says his wife has no idea. My mom says she must have some idea after that long. Intuition. W hat do you think? You think the wives know, they just want to keep the home life running?

[izzybelle]

45, two kids here and yes, it's baggage that many don't want. and you're right about the "security" of a relationship with a married man. i can see especially for you, with what you've been through, it feels safe to know that he can't take over your life and control what you do.

 

there are a lot of things i wish they sold on ebay these days!!! but knowing my luck...i'd be forever being outbid . yes, most of the time it helps to talk about it. it helps me to process and understand what's going on in my head sometimes. reading posts from others is helpful too, even if i'm just reading and not responding. knowing there are others in the same situation helps, and knowing i'm not the only one out there "stupid" enough to have gotten myself in the situation is helpful.

 

but i also know that every situation is different. and i think for me that's been one of the most enlightening things about reading stuff here. yes, there are a lot of common threads, and a lot of common responses. it's so easy to write things like "move on" or "don't contact him" or whatever else, and the advice is wonderful and in many cases right on target. but everyone moves through these situations at their own pace, with their own baggage and their own experiences. and for me, as much as it helps to talk about it, friends, even my close ones who know, always look uneasy. the fact that he was married makes them uncomfortable so here.... i find people going through the same thing. and as much as i love talking face to face and reading someone that way, sometimes it's nice to not really have to care how someone may react to what you say!!

 

how long were you married? do your kids know your MM? mine met mine once years ago (i'd known him for a long time before we got together).

[Shiraz]

Gsh, you hit everything on the nail head. I agree with everything you say.

 

yes, I girls know MM but as a friend and co-worker, not that we are seeing eachother. But you know, in the same breath, kids are very smart, they can put two and two together.

 

I enjoy talking to you very much. And thanks for not judging me. Muchly appreciated.

[Shiraz]

Hey Izzy,

 

Did you ever call the wife and hang up? Did you ever want to tell her, to see if you could get him for yourself?

[Guest]

Feelings of lost or reserve in a MM r/s are cause to regret/

 

But you know it isnt easy to get involved however innocent/lame if not allowed to given status to others.

 

I look over my shoulder and wonder if the garage door has opened because I am supposed to finish packing and moving my things. I constantly look at my clock here and reason the time left to do so. My heart is pumping and my mind racing...

 

I cannot think clearly now and so caught in this hold my being is desperately trying to absorb. I pray for guidance to myself minute to minute remind myself to control my emotions as they are out of limits I cannot identify. To be strong. Focus, focus focus!!! No not why, I find here as two; why not? What is this? Who am I that would neither ever become victim to hurt others, or look the other away for what is true in life? I selfishly would resign... I do not have that make-up in character to do so, if given a choice. I remain at lost here?

 

I keep seeing the sweet face. The tender voice I long to hear. The touch that never ever seemed to go. The hold in my heart I never believed would cease as it appears to be now. The hurt and tears that just flow w/no sound at all. The breath that comes deeply and heavy. My mind fills disattached to process.

 

The future? I can't even begin to visualize that thought. For I would live w/my love in a shack, eat whatever may be, stand strong to find a way to; survive, if need be and never having to complain why. These virtues once desired have realized true value of what a treasure that one may to loss.

 

To caress his tender loving heart as no other that I will never ever forgive myself for never allowing him to believ it so. Also never ever called this wife.

[izzybelle]

shiraz, i rec'd two emails from her, from his account, after she found out. the first simply said "f*** you." the 2nd basically told me i knew nothing about their relationship and that this wasn't his first relationship and probably wouldn't be his last. and then... i got a call in the middle of the night where someone called me all sorts of wonderful things and told me i was more than welcome to her lying cheating husband. but yet.... she took him back. i don't think he thought it was his wife, i think he thought it was just a random conicidence. yes, i would love to have a rational, calm conversation with her and have picked up the phone a number of times. i've never dialed and hung up but i have had the phone in my hand.

 

there's still a major part of me that would love to have him for myself. but, there would be a lot of damage to repair. my abililty trust has been damaged, not because he had an affair, but because he seemed so sure about his marriage being over and then changed his mind. and yes, i know it's what he had to do, but we had talked about a future. not in great details but the thoughts and dreams were there, and in all of them, he and i were together, not he and his wife. and he was the first to bring those up, he was the first to talk about his feelings. i held back for a while after that. so i know i'd be terrified about him changing his mind again and that would take a lot to get past.

 

i'd love to ask his wife what he really has said about his relationship with me, i'd love to ask her why she had said for several years that she would be leaving him but then changed her mind when she discovered that he'd moved on, how she could have said over and over again that she hated the sight of him, but then agree to try to make the marriage work. i have a bizillion questions for her that i suppose i'll never get a chance to ask. even though my split with him was several months ago now, i still am very much in love with him. even through all this pain and feelings that i had today, he still is the most incredible man i've ever met. sometimes that just sounds so pathetic and i read all these posts that just say to move on. and i want to, i want to give my heart to someone else, but i know it has to heal and that will take time. i have faith that it will happen but, it will take time.

[sami]

Well, may be men are naturally polygamous. If you are both happy then why are you posting. Just enjoy what you have and stay where you are. Good luck.

[Shiraz]

Good morning Izzy,

 

How are you today? Feeling better? I am in a little bit of a better space today. My MM caqme over last night, we had dinner and just snuggled. It was so nice to be held. He knew I had a lot on my mind. I was super quiet, where normally I have the gift to gab. I told him little bits of what was going on, but not much. It's a waste of time to speak up. Nothing is giong to change. But I feel better just being loved last night. Stupid eh. It's like a drug. HOld me, and I'm fine. Ignore me, and I fall to peices.

 

I konw everyone says to move on. But you have to do it at your pace. It's easy for peopple to offer their opinions, and a lot of them are right..... but it's not always easy to follow those directions. The heart is a powerful thing. It really takes hold of us.

 

Do you find reading all these listings, They mostly people say, men cheat for sex...... I really don't believe my guy is with me for the sex. It's good, but there's too many emotions involved. If a guy just wanted sex, he wouldn't put up with tears and sadness. Do you agree?

 

ALso, you said you wouldn't trust your guy if he came back. I understand what your saying there to. WOuld he stay or go. I guess that's where faith comes in, and hope. Or a magic crystle ball. But who can afford a crystle ball right?

[izzybelle]

shiraz, good morning. yes, i'm a little better today. someday it would be nice to wake up and not have my first thoughts be of him!

 

and i agree, it is like a drug. i really don't think my MM was in it just for sex. yes, that was part of it but since we live hundreds of miles apart, it was really more the emotional connection that got incredibly strong. the sex was incredible, but our conversations were what really felt like the stronger bond. i always wondered if we had been closer in distance whether things would have been the same, or whether the outcome would have been the same. too many what ifs.... and i don't imagine he would have put up with all the tears either if it was just about sex.

 

there are still sometime almost overpowering feelings to call. to find out what's going on, to see if he and his wife are getting through this. and yes, there's a part of me that knows (or believes) that at one point they were happy and i hope that they can get back there. but from what i've gathered, and from what i know of their work schedules, i think it's going to be difficult. they don't see much of each other and i can't imagine they're having time to really work through this. i think they're method of dealing with things is to just ignore it and hope it goes away. oh well, not my business, and i suppose not my problem.

 

i guess in some ways i always envyed the OWs who lived closer to their MMs and could see them more frequently but then i wonder if the pain of the end would be even more difficult because you get used to them being there physcially and emotionally? what does your MM say about the possibility of ending things? does he seem to hold on tighter if he knows you're having doubts?

[Shiraz]

Hey Izzy.

 

Yes, when MM knows I'm struggling he does step up a notch. Does a few little extra calls and check ins.

 

He told me form day one, before anything even started that he would never leave his wife and kids. He is very worried about losing his kids. Also, his wife has stayed home to raise them. He would lose everything. He works three jobs as it is. Now he says, he is not willing to leave now. He doesn't know what's down the road, but now is not possible. So, I don't know what he means by that. It could also jsut be a bit of hope my way to keep me waiting. I would wait anyways.... I guess I have hope and faith..... one day I'll smell the coffee.

 

I told him one day. I know you love your wife, but I don't think you are in love with her. He didn't say anything. He stays very quiet, and doesn't expose too much of his home life. But in my head, if you really love some one, you wouldn't let yourself get caught up with some one else. He also told me, he loves two women right now. Which is quite possible to right!

 

I know that he does a lot to get to see me. When he went away on a family vacation this summer, he called me from the states one night, just to let me konw they were staying an extra day and say hi. He had never called me before when he was away with his family. ALso, when he goes out with his wife for dinner or party or something. If he goes to get a drink, or to the bathroom, he calls me from his cell. So even when he's with her, he's got me on the mind a little.

[izzybelle]

i wanted so much to believe, especially at the beginning, that my relationship with MM didn't fit the "mold." because he was intending to end his marriage. or maybe i should say, he thought it was over, because she had said so and he was done trying. so we did talk about the future to some extent. no, it was never the when we're together forever and ever conversations, although sometimes i had feelings that we both toyed with that. it was more of the, i love what we've become and i want to see where this goes, types of conversations. but there was always the feeling that the relasionship really was going somewhere.

 

did he, or does he love his wife? no clue on my end. i have to guess yes, if he's chosen to try to make his marriage work. but his reasons for going back? life experiences and catholic guilt. ok, i understand that but you know, i don't know if i'd want my marriage to someone based on that. that and the threats his wife made to ruin his relationship with his kids if he continued with me. so here we have a marriage based on lies, deceit, lack of trust (since she told me that she doubted this would be his last affair), guilt, and past experiences. no where in that has he ever mentioned anything about love, no where of them wanting to be together forever, nothing about the future at all. and i know, perhaps he just didn't want to admit that to me, and i have to keep telling myself that it doesn't matter. he's made his bed and they're the ones who have to sleep in it and wake up every morning and look at each other and know what's happened between them.

 

i think one of the worst pieces of fallout for me from this whole mess, which i don't know that many OWs think about is the damage it can do to our ability to trust. i really do want to believe that he did, and perhaps still does love me, but i'm constantly trying to figure out what i missed. how could i have been so naive to have not seen what was happening? or was it real? so my confidence in my ability to read a situation and people and trust that what someone says to me is really the truth, is in the toilet at this point! so betweeen that and the fear that my heart will get stomped on again if i give it away, is enough to make me want to be a nun! ok, so i could never do that, i do love being with men to much to swear off them forever, but i'm sure you understand what i mean!

[Shiraz]

Well! YES................ The trust factor is a huge damaged factor. My friends say..... If he is with you he'll cheat on you to. Well, probably, but a risk I would take.

 

To be with any other guy starting over..... It's probably doomed from the sart, because I would watch everything too carefully, expecting him to cheat. I'm at the point that I think the majority of men cheat.

 

It's funny, do you find guys that pay you attention are married? I have had probably more attention from married men, than I do single. WOuld I ever get involved with a married man again. NO! I've learned with this one, too painful. But do I stop with him now.........NO, way to painful!

 

Gesh! Why do we make our lives so confusing?

[izzybelle]

i'm not sure i can tell you the last time an unmarried man paid attention to me. married ones, at least once a week it seems. most of my friends are married and many of them confide in me about their marriages and there's always that look of, "but i know you'd understand." and other comments and looks that while flattering, make me just a tad uncomfortable. i was at a party a few weeks ago and a man kept staring and following me from room to room and looked very uncomfortable when his wife came up to him and took his arm. i thought it was funny, but sad.

 

i know there are some out there who wouldn't cheat, who are honorable. and i'm not sure i believe the once a cheater always a cheater mantra. i think, while some men (and women) may be more likely to do that than others, i think so much of it is relationship specific. but would i be nervous? yup, like you said, i'd be paying a whole lot more attention to what was going on, especially at the beginning. watching for signs, etc.

 

and i think, or would like to think, that having been involved in this situation that we may be more likely to pick up on some of the "cues". whether it's the cell phone calls, emails, increase in sex that's seen at the beginning of an affair (typically), or using it to mask a failing relationship, changes in behavior, etc. of course the flip side of it is whether or not i'd end up so overly sensitive and potentially jealous will i end up chasing someone away because i'll constantly be looking for something that isn't there? or am i so naive at this point that i wouldn't know it if it slapped me in the face?

 

i know many of the results of these situations are typical to the results from any relationship that's failed but somehow it seems to feel worse. but yet, people keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again!

[Shiraz]

So true, all of it.

 

Time will tell eh! You know what would be cool. Is if you and I met up in about a year, and both had found wonderful men, who love us and our hearts would be heeled.

[izzybelle]

yes, it would and i wish that for all of us here!

[fanou22]

Originally posted by izzybelle

i think one of the worst pieces of fallout for me from this whole mess, which i don't know that many OWs think about is the damage it can do to our ability to trust.

 

This is exactly what has been happening to me. I keep wondering whether I would be able to trust the man I may marry some day. Then again I may never get married.

 

I wonder whether I will always question where he was or what he has been doing.

 

and i think, or would like to think, that having been involved in this situation that we may be more likely to pick up on some of the "cues". whether it's the cell phone calls, emails, increase in sex that's seen at the beginning of an affair (typically), or using it to mask a failing relationship, changes in behavior, etc. of course the flip side of it is whether or not i'd end up so overly sensitive and potentially jealous will i end up chasing someone away because i'll constantly be looking for something that isn't there? or am i so naive at this point that i wouldn't know it if it slapped me in the face?

 

Will this happen to us? I hope not. I keep on hoping that one day I will meet someone who will make me get over the trust issues. Someone who would truly love me and not cheat. I guess in the end the affair is more damaging then one would think.