Trying to understand a MM mind.

[9Lives]

Originally posted by Withnail

Hi Izzybelle, thank you for not ripping into me . Well I guess my point is that its real easy to cast blame on the man. Since Im married and -Id like to think a good father- I do get hit on by women a lot more than when I was single. I do think some women like a man that is 'proven goods', if I can say it like that. And theres probably some women who like the idea to steal a man away too. It takes two to tango. It is an awful situation for everyone, and where some women probably think that man is being selfish and self serving, for me it was the opposite, I just wanted everyone to be happy and very often I put myself last. A man who is selfish and self serving would probably just have a one nighter, I think.

 

You did not answer the question. First of all, since you claim you were happy with your w....then you were being greedy by stepping out because according to what your saying,...you did not have a reason, you just wanted to. Right or Wrong?

 

Secondly, your relationship with the ow is a selfish act on your part period.

 

SO THE QUESTION STILL REMAIN.....WERE YOU JUST LEASING? Now that you are fulfilled, you gave your notice and broke the lease. That is what it is. You may not want to look at it that way but it is that way.

 

I am not trying to be mean or hard on you...I am just giving you another perspective of your behavior. Your wife is the house. Your ow is the leasing agreement. It is easlier to get out of a lease but it is very damaging to get out of a house. You follow what I am saying?

[fanou22]

I honestly believe that it's virtually impossible to make a marriage "affair-proof."

 

Am I to conclude to that a married person will have at least an emotional affair? That is of course if it does not lead to anything physical.

 

But then again, if all emotional and physical needs are met at home why would that "intimate place" outside of marriage be created? Wouldn't the SO at home be meeting all needs eliminating the need to share intimacies with another person?

 

Immoralist,

If what you say is true then all marriages have an affair waiting to happen. It would be left to the person to control the situation and never get comfortable with any co-worker in order to eliminate any chance of an affair happening.

[Withnail]

Jvrose, I wasnt leasing. The OW knew I was married after all. In fact I think this lease/rent is a rather simplistic metaphor to put on such a complex situation. It cant summed up in such a way where women look like victims and men look bad no matter what they do.

[9Lives]

Originally posted by Withnail

Jvrose, I wasnt leasing. The OW knew I was married after all. In fact I think this lease/rent is a rather simplistic metaphor to put on such a complex situation. It cant summed up in such a way where women look like victims and men look bad no matter what they do.

 

Then why did you cheat? You stated you were happy. What was the reason for being unfaithful? I would like to understand.

[immoralist]

Immoralist,

If what you say is true then all marriages have an affair waiting to happen. It would be left to the person to control the situation and never get comfortable with any co-worker in order to eliminate any chance of an affair happening.

 

fanou22, you gleaned my message. If bonds form at work between a man and woman and it starts to spill over to the personal and private, I don't care how great the marriage is. The probability of an affair increases exponentially.

 

It's the "innocent" connections that do us in.

 

A while back the NYT had a first page story about married, male NYFD grief counsellors who were leaving their wives for 9/11 widows whom they were counselling. Care and the exchange of confidences often prime the affair.

 

Rather than play the blame game, people should be very mindful of the opposite sex friendships they form at work.

[izzybelle]

withnail, i don't see it as leasing either. yes, there have been times in the past few months when i've felt like i was used. but i have come to the realization, right or wrong, that that wasn't the case (or at least that's the way i feel right now). you are right, the situations are much, much more complicated than that. and besides, i lease my car and i'm perfectly happy with that arrangement and i live in an apartment, so... i'm used to the leased arrangement!!

 

and in some ways you're right that the women end up looking like victims. of course if you read some of the other threads around here you'll see quite the discussion for why we're not, or shouldn't be considered that way. we sometimes need to feel that way to be able to move on and heal, to find some strength in an otherwise powerless situation. but i'd bet if you'd ask the general public whether they saw us OWs as victims, i'm sure you'd hear a lot of names, but victim probably wouldn't be one of them. and yes, in many cases it's the MM that looks like the bad guy. and i suppose it's a no-win situation. you're "bad" because you cheated, "bad" if you hurt your family, "bad" for hurting the OW, the OW is "bad" for being with a married man, "bad" for trying to break up a family, and sometimes the W is "bad" for not seeing what was lacking in the marriage. and no, i pesonally don't see anyone as being "bad" in these situations. they tend to be a series of mistakes, that sometimes gets out of control. i don't know what led you to find someone outside of your marriage, hel* i'm not even too clear sometimes on what led my exMM to look outside of his marriage.

 

and there are some instances where women may purposefully try to break up a marriage, or times when a MM may just use the OW. but i think there are probably just as many, if not more times, when there is a lot of love exchanged in these relationships. there are many lies that are told, the whole way around. and there is ultimately a lot of pain. we seem to get into pis*ing matches here sometimes about who's right, who's wrong and who deserves to be blamed and who has the right to be hurt or to feel like a victim. the bottom line is that whether we like it or not, affairs happen and people get hurt. and i don't personally believe that any one person "deserves" to be hurt. should these situations happen, no. but i'm as much to blame for my situation as my MM is. we all make some questionable choices at times in our lives, and we learn to live with and deal with the consequences.

[fanou22]

Then it is best to not get married or even think about it.

 

At least now I have a valid excuse to tell people why I am reluctant about marriage.

 

Does the "perfect marriage" exist?

[9Lives]

Originally posted by izzybelle

withnail, i don't see it as leasing either. yes, there have been times in the past few months when i've felt like i was used. but i have come to the realization, right or wrong, that that wasn't the case (or at least that's the way i feel right now). you are right, the situations are much, much more complicated than that. and besides, i lease my car and i'm perfectly happy with that arrangement and i live in an apartment, so... i'm used to the leased arrangement!!

 

Well, I dont mean to offend anyone.

 

I do see it as leasing because it is not yours. You just get to use it for awhile. That all. Plus there is not real investment there. So that is my opinion on the mm thing

[izzybelle]

fanou, no i don't think the perfect marriage exists and i'm not entirely sure that i'll ever go down that road again. maybe someday, someone will change my mind but as it is right now, i don't find that likely.

 

jvjrose, and i know you'll argue with me about whether or not my MM was mine or his wife. he gave himself willingly to me and we had what i believe were promises to each other. i really did feel that he was mine, even if it was for a short time.

 

these situations are complicated and each one is different. IMO there are no generalizations that can be made. and as far as the lease vs. own.... does anyone ever really "own" another person or are we all just leasing time?

[Withnail]

Originally posted by jvjrose

Then why did you cheat? You stated you were happy. What was the reason for being unfaithful? I would like to understand.

 

I cant explain it really without sounding like an arrogant arse. It just happens. It was just one day suddenly 'oh **** I cant believe Im having an affair' Theres no scientific breakdown of it.

[Withnail]

Originally posted by jvjrose

Originally posted by izzybelle

withnail, i don't see it as leasing either. yes, there have been times in the past few months when i've felt like i was used. but i have come to the realization, right or wrong, that that wasn't the case (or at least that's the way i feel right now). you are right, the situations are much, much more complicated than that. and besides, i lease my car and i'm perfectly happy with that arrangement and i live in an apartment, so... i'm used to the leased arrangement!!

 

Well, I dont mean to offend anyone.

 

I do see it as leasing because it is not yours. You just get to use it for awhile. That all. Plus there is not real investment there. So that is my opinion on the mm thing

 

I agree I did alot for my ow as yous call it here. I was there when she needed me, I did everything for her that I could and she knows it too. And not for my own good, but for hers. I dont think anyone is that cold where they use someone as a rag then throw them out once used. I am certainly not.

[9Lives]

I am not saying the feelings are not real.

 

Lease vs Owning

Ownership does not mean owning the person.

It is your life. I am not saying the man does

not care about you. Which is good. But you

are putting your life on hold while his continues.

He gets to go on vacation, with his wife

He gets to spend the holidays, with his wife.

He gets to do family things, with his wife.

 

I am trying to look out for you. I know this

can be difficult because your heart and emotions

are involved and he is a nice guy.

 

But I stilll say, it is leasing. 2 years from now, you

may have to walk away and you would have gain

what.....nothing. The wife is the real thing, the investment,

the house.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, he is going home.

You are a temporary. You have no real commitment.

[izzybelle]

jvjrose, i do understand what you're saying and i appreciate your thoughts. and for many, and perhaps me, as well, much of what you say is true. but in my case, he didn't do things with his wife, perhaps that was the reason he looked for someone else. he didn't share things with her, or as he told me, all he felt the only thing he was sharing with her was the failure of his marriage. that may still be the only thing they're sharing, i don't know.

 

in the end, yes, he went back to that life, whatever that was, and you're right, i was left alone. and i won't even try to pretend that it didn't, and still doesn't hurt. but all things considered, even if it was a lease, i don't regret it. as angry as i am with him at times, and sometimes i'm so angry i could spit. and sometimes i'm so hurt i can't breathe. in spite of it all, even if i could only have him in my life for a brief period, it was worth the pain. that may be hard to understand and sometimes i don't understand it myself. she may have been the one who had the committment to him and she may have been the one with the ring on her finger, and shared the house with him, but i do believe that i was the one who had his heart.

[9Lives]

she may have been the one who had the committment to him and she may have been the one with the ring on her finger, and shared the house with him, but i do believe that i was the one who had his heart.

 

izzybelle,

 

Please believe me....She had his heart too. If he really loved you, he would have left his....terrible relationship....with her. I know it is not

that cut and dry. It is complicated very much so. His life with her may be bad but apparently it is bearable. He chose to stay in and cheat instead of leave. HE CHOSE. He could get out if he really wanted to.

 

BUT with his Good Intentions, at the end of the day, it was what is

like leasing. I dont regret living in my apartment. I acutally enjoyed it very much but my house is more valuable and I am not leaving it.

 

izzybelle,

be smarter next time. You can have it all. I have been the ow and

he was all crazy about me too but in the end, it was a lease. I was

hurt and it took time to heal. Men make decisions that they have not thought out completely and the next thing you know. You are left holding the bag.

[jellybean]

Men make decisions that they have not thought out completely and the next thing you know. You are left holding the bag.

 

I totally agree with jvjrose.....

[izzybelle]

oooohhh

 

Men make decisions that they have not thought out completely and the next thing you know. You are left holding the bag.

 

i know that's true, i was married to a man who can't think beyond the next five minutes let alone what might happen next week! of course i also know a whole lot of woment like that!!!!

 

jvjrose, i do appreciate your thoughts and i know you know how complicated these situations can be and are. but will i be smarter next time... we'll see. our hearts don't always want to listen to our head!

[9Lives]

You don't die from a broken heart - you just wish you did....

 

 

Da$m, that is true statement. Oh my goodness!!! I wanted to

freaking past out and hope I never know that pain again. I

am much more careful.

[9Lives]

Originally posted by izzybelle

oooohhh

 

 

jvjrose, i do appreciate your thoughts and i know you know how complicated these situations can be and are. but will i be smarter next time... we'll see. our hearts don't always want to listen to our head!

 

You got that right. I just want you to have a strong stand. I want you to look at relationships a little different so you can avoid coming up short. It is not about us loving these men. I think they care alot. But love is not enough. Caring is not enough. I hate that I even got involved. I did not want him to leave home and I still hate that I got involved. It is just a waste of time. Yes, we had awesome sex, great communication, loving memories...but dammit, he went home. Dearheart, it is not right. Regardless of the intentions, it is just not right. I hate him. I hate I did it. Yes I chose to be a part of it and it is TOTALLLY my fault but I hate him for hurting me. BUT IT WAS MY FAULT.

 

So stop being so damm understanding. Understand that this is bullshipt.

Alot of single women, though the guy is not married are in leasing agreements. They just dont realize it. So they go on the ride. Sometimes it turns out good and sometimes it takes years to figure out it is not the one.

 

You have to be careful. You have to know what you want. You have to respect yourself. You can have the real thing. It can be good too.

[9Lives]

Originally posted by Withnail

 

I cant explain it really without sounding like an arrogant arse. It just happens. It was just one day suddenly 'oh **** I cant believe Im having an affair' Theres no scientific breakdown of it.

 

This statement by a mm who has cheated just proves what I said is correct.

 

THEY GET THEMSELVES INTO S/HIT WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT IT AND THE OW IS LEFT HOLDING THE BAG....AND HE GOES HOME. HE SAYS TO THE OW...I AM SORRY AND YOU KNEW I WAS MARRIED.

 

This is great!

[immoralist]

does anyone ever really "own" another person or are we all just leasing time?

 

 

Well said, my lady. Well said.

[Shiraz]

You've got a good point here. And how can any of us judge you! We're not perfect either. No one is.

You know what. I tip my hat to you, for speaking up. It's nice to hear a guys point of view. Us women, chat and share our ideas, but we're guessing.

 

I think my MM guys thinks along the same lines as you do. Thanks for sharing.

[Shiraz]

Originally posted by izzybelle

oooohhh

 

 

 

i know that's true, i was married to a man who can't think beyond the next five minutes let alone what might happen next week! of course i also know a whole lot of woment like that!!!!

 

jvjrose, i do appreciate your thoughts and i know you know how complicated these situations can be and are. but will i be smarter next time... we'll see. our hearts don't always want to listen to our head!

 

Aint that the truth

[9Lives]

Originally posted by Shiraz

You've got a good point here. And how can any of us judge you! We're not perfect either. No one is.

You know what. I tip my hat to you, for speaking up. It's nice to hear a guys point of view. Us women, chat and share our ideas, but we're guessing.

 

I think my MM guys thinks along the same lines as you do. Thanks for sharing.

 

 

 

Well I warned you.

[izzybelle]

jvjrose, i'm sorry that you were hurt so badly by your MM, i was hurt by mine too. and while i agree that in most cases the MM won't leave it does occassionally happen. knowing that, it's still not the best of situations and i know it's wrong. but still, our hearts sometimes lead us to people that they shouldn't.

 

after reading a number of posts here with all the statistics against an MM leaving his wife and ending up with his OW, i'm convinced that i must know all of them that live on the planet. and granted, those who didn't leave, i probably wouldn't have heard about. but i know of 3 who are now married, 2 who are living together and 1 (my brother actually) who is divorced from his wife and is still seeing his OW and has been now for over 5 years.

 

please don't misunderstand me to say that i think all women should go out and look for a married man. they shouldn't. it's not good for anyone, but since it does happen, we learn to live with the consequences. and hopefully we learn to be more careful the next time. and yes, i know we all appreciate your warnings but some are not always ready to hear those things when we say them.

 

and i can't help the fact that i try to be understanding of my MM and his situation. i care about him, and in spite of everything, i still consider him to be a friend. what we did was wrong and i do believe that he didn't do this specifically just to hurt me. plus, it's my nature to try and see both sides of a situation. sometimes i'm more successful than others but i do try, and in that way i try to understand. i also believe that people are inherently good, even MMs, MWs, OMs and OWs.

 

i hope in time that you'll be able to put what happened to you behind you. i hope i can too, but for me getting rid of the anger and trying to understand is part of my healing.

[Withnail]

Originally posted by jvjrose

This statement by a mm who has cheated just proves what I said is correct.

 

THEY GET THEMSELVES INTO S/HIT WITHOUT THINKING ABOUT IT AND THE OW IS LEFT HOLDING THE BAG....AND HE GOES HOME. HE SAYS TO THE OW...I AM SORRY AND YOU KNEW I WAS MARRIED.

 

This is great!

 

While I would agree with you if I were the one looking for it. If a woman comes to me knowing that I am married, how on earth does this make her the victim? She must know there wont or cant be any guarantees. You are much too eager in your pleasure to pin all the blame on men.