Should the institution of marriage just be thrown on the scrapheap of history?

[TaraMaiden]

 

Good point!!

[Betterthanthis13]

I think marriage is an example of a function that has become outdated and no longer valid for a lot of the data that is being entered into it, so it is producing poor results.

 

Trying to change the data-the people entering into and participating in marriages- is the approach we are currently taking to remedy the problem. So we fight about what people should and shouldn't do, and no consensus can be reached because people vary widely in their beliefs. The whole business of marriage counseling is an example of this protocol. Trying to adjust people back to "normal" so they will be good data for the function.

 

The function itself is what needs to be adjusted to accommodate the shifting needs of the data. We need a better machine to produce better results. Commonly held religious beliefs about the "sanctity of marriage", human beings natural fear of change, and disinclination to enact change are major factors preventing us from building a better machine

[LittleTiger]

Woggle, you have surpassed yourself with this one!

[Mme. Chaucer]

Why on earth should a thing that's been a part of most of our cultures, that people still want to do, be "thrown on the scrapheap of history"?

 

Things are better now. People can CHOOSE not to marry without a huge social stigma. Not too long ago, being unmarried was never seen as a choice, but as a failure.

 

Anybody who feels like you do is free to throw marriage on their own personal scrapheap, but please. Don't impose your issues on the rest of us.

 

As Carhill said, like all social institutions, it's evolving all the time.

 

Maybe serial marriage is not a bad thing? Maybe it's suitable for our times?

 

Who's to say?

 

I do know that many failed marriages happen because peoples' expectations of marriage do not match the realities of marriage. That's not the "fault" of the institution, it's down to the individuals.

 

I've been married twice and both times I went into it with a huge level of consciousness about what it meant to me and my husband, why we were doing it, what we expected out of it, and we weren't in lala land. That helps.

[Woggle]

Reading some of the things I do I just get so discouraged. Believe me I wish happy relationships were common and men and women stopped hating each other but from where I stand I don't see those things happening.

[LittleTiger]

Reading some of the things I do I just get so discouraged. Believe me I wish happy relationships were common and men and women stopped hating each other but from where I stand I don't see those things happening.

 

There is an obvious solution to this Woggle - and many people have suggested it to you before - and happy relationships are common but, as with all things, people only make a lot of noise about the negative stuff.

 

Besides which, other men and women are not your problem. If you are happy in your own relationship, and your wife is happy too, then other people's unhappy relationships don't have to concern you - unless you want them to!

[letsbeotherpeople]

Reading some of the things I do I just get so discouraged. Believe me I wish happy relationships were common and men and women stopped hating each other but from where I stand I don't see those things happening.

 

Then you're reading the wrong things and not looking hard enough.

 

They are everywhere.

[Woggle]

I am not this cynical about just marriage. I simply don't believe in humanity much at all. If there is a god whoever it is must wish we were never created.

[MissBee]

Reading some of the things I do I just get so discouraged. Believe me I wish happy relationships were common and men and women stopped hating each other but from where I stand I don't see those things happening.

 

I don't understand why it worries and discourages you so much if your own marriage is good? I'm genuinely asking. Is it just a broader worry for humanity or what? As people who usually feel so forlorn about marriage in society are those contemplating it but not sure because of what they're seeing or who have had a bad experience with it, but it seems less common that someone happily married is ALWAYS concerned about the state of marriage.

[MissBee]

I am not this cynical about just marriage. I simply don't believe in humanity much at all. If there is a god whoever it is must wish we were never created.

 

Oh just saw this, it sort of answers the question.

[tbf]

I am not this cynical about just marriage. I simply don't believe in humanity much at all. If there is a god whoever it is must wish we were never created.

That's because you fear everything, looking for assurances and guarantees that don't exist in life. If you'd crawl out of your fear and go back to your state of mind post Sandy, realizing that first world problems are just petty trivialities when compared to issues of life and death, it will help you move from an embryonic state to a more mature, emotionally developed state of mind.

[sweetjasmine]

Sorry, Tara, meant to respond to this part of your post, too.

 

What I mean by that is that the number of people opting to merely live together without the ceremony (simple or otherwise) is rising.

So sometimes statistics are insular.

How many couples opting to merely live together do so, long-term?

 

I actually find those merely co-habiting are beginning to outnumber those who are legally wed....

3 people I work with have been co-habiting with their partners. One for 15 years, one for 26 and the last for 31.

Still solid, it seems....

 

From what I understand, the US has generally been more marriage-happy than Western Europe in that people are a bit more likely to just cohabit long-term in Europe than they are in the US. I find that interesting and wonder what role the social safety net has to play.

 

If the trend continues and more and more people opt to simply cohabit, I still don't see why it would mean marriage should "just be thrown on the scrapheap of history," though. Those who want to marry will, and if it works for them, great. Those who'd rather cohabit will choose that instead, and if it works for them, great.

 

The problem is that this isn't really about marriage, divorce rates, cohabitation, long-term relationships, or anything of the sort. It's about Woggle's obsessive personal issues. So my apologies for the earlier post. If it were a discussion about actual marriage and divorce rates across various societies, then, yeah, it'd be silly to just focus on the US.

[LittleTiger]

I am not this cynical about just marriage. I simply don't believe in humanity much at all. If there is a god whoever it is must wish we were never created.

 

Guess what Woggle - I actually agree with you. I don't believe the human race deserves to be on this planet because we don't take care of it - and one day, fortunately for the planet, we won't be here any more.

 

Even so, I make the most of my life and my relationships and I focus on the good that I see in the world. There are some really great people around - you just have to look for them.

[dichotomy]

There is nothing wrong with Marriage - it is just that most people are not suited for it.

 

It should be like getting into Harvard or something - cause you need the right stuff, and knowledge to make it, and you’re really going to have to work hard, and continually learn, to make it.

 

Right now it’s more like Arizona State University - anyone can get in - and they all think it’s going to be years of fun and partying.

[Woggle]

I don't understand why it worries and discourages you so much if your own marriage is good? I'm genuinely asking. Is it just a broader worry for humanity or what? As people who usually feel so forlorn about marriage in society are those contemplating it but not sure because of what they're seeing or who have had a bad experience with it, but it seems less common that someone happily married is ALWAYS concerned about the state of marriage.

 

Because the walkaway wife epidemic has me scared to death that it one day might happen to me. I also wonder if my wife deep down thinks she settled because it is how married women these days tend to view their husbands.

[janedoe67]

Who was it who said happiness is not a destination, it's a choice?

 

Good advice that.

[Woggle]

I come here to talk about my deepest and darkest insecurities. I am still a work in progress and probably always will be.

[Els]

Because the walkaway wife epidemic has me scared to death that it one day might happen to me. I also wonder if my wife deep down thinks she settled because it is how married women these days tend to view their husbands.

 

Don't you think there's an equal chance (perhaps greater, given what I've seen you write) of you being a 'walkaway husband' one day?

[xxoo]

I am not against marriage but it is clear that it is a dying concept so why not put it out of it's misery?

 

Because people want to get married!

 

You got the chance (twice!), but now you want to deny others the chance? Whether they make the right choice or not, it is their RIGHT to make that choice. And people continually choose to marry, sometimes repeatedly.

[xxoo]

I have told about these fears but how can any married man these days not be afraid?

 

My husband isn't afraid. He's grateful.

[Pyro]

Because the walkaway wife epidemic has me scared to death that it one day might happen to me. I also wonder if my wife deep down thinks she settled because it is how married women these days tend to view their husbands.

 

Your wife would fear the walkaway husband epidemic if she knew half the stuff that you share on here.

[tbf]

I have told about these fears but how can any married man these days not be afraid?

My husband's unafraid hence why he proposed. But then, not much scares him where it's very difficult to rattle him.

 

Perhaps the difference between a secure, confident man and others less or highly insecure?

[Pyro]

I come here to talk about my deepest and darkest insecurities. I am still a work in progress and probably always will be.

 

If your wife described herself like that would you have proposed to her?

[SincereOnlineGuy]

Reading some of the things I do I just get so discouraged.

 

 

Easy remedy:

 

 

Far less reading.

 

Much greater attention paid to understanding the statistics which you cite.

 

 

Take a made-up example of 20 high school cheerleaders, all female, and all as hot as you can imagine them being (all of the social opportunities in the world).

 

They all go to college, and each marry for the first time at 22 (some having been proposed to by a previous guy, and perhaps one or two having had a kid previously as well - just to make this nearer to societal norm).

 

By their 23rd birthdays, they have married collectively the sum total of 20 times.

 

As is always the case, the hotties have no short supply of suitors lined-up to try to woo them off of their thrones and out of their marriages. Lets say 5 of the girls cheat on their husbands, 3 divorce quickly, and the rest remain married for a while.

 

By age 30, of the original 20 girls, perhaps a total of 6 are now divorced, with 4 of those having remarried (what with the unending offers for the hotties).

 

By age 40, there are 2 new divorcees, with 2 (1 previously divorced, and 1 newly divorced) having remarried, and 2 of those on their 2nd marriages have also divorced, with even one of those remarried (rather quickly, to the guy she was cheating with, of course).

 

SO where are we now:

 

20 women... (hopefully at least 12 still 'hot')

 

27 total marriages

 

10 divorces

 

1 person married 3 times

 

1 other individual divorced twice

 

4 added individuals married twice (not yet divorced from 2nd husband)

 

 

In this example of 40yo's... 60% of the women account for zero percent of the divorces, and 40% of the women account for 100% of the divorces. Just 10% of the women comprise 40% of the divorces.

 

Play this out further, for 10 and 20 more years, and the statistics, although perhaps showing 40 marriages and 20 divorces, will also show that a clear majority mated for life-to-date, while a relatively small group tallied up the overwhelming majority of the divorces.

 

(all so you can sit here and try to scare people with misleading divorce statistics) The data you cite won't affect the mainstream until it can be stated that most individuals have been considerably flawed not of their own doing.

 

It's a lot like HIV, where those like you who subscribed to mid-1980's beliefs and predictions, expected HIV would have swarmed through society and altered the face of humanity by now. Instead, AIDS simply did not significantly impact the purely heterosexual, non-drug-using society (once HIV was eliminated from the blood supply).

 

 

(It is the psychological make-up of at least one of the partners in those random marriages which keeps leading one side to self-destruct socially, while the other side is effectively victimized by that repeat offender)

 

(the so-called 'victim' partner has a past which often draws him/her right to just the mistreatment which seems so familiar, {and which is a harbinger of divorce and disappointment to follow} )

 

(That, while still, a considerable majority of people still mate for the long, long haul)

[Woggle]

Don't you think there's an equal chance (perhaps greater, given what I've seen you write) of you being a 'walkaway husband' one day?

 

Statistically walkway wives are much greater. That is a fact.