To tell the children or not?

[Silly_Girl]

Think more along the lines of "lying to your spouse (about your life/actions/feelings) is lying to your kids".

 

 

I think this is where so muany kids get messed up. The actions of the parents relate to them. But they don't. It took years for everyone to understand that kids would balme themselves for separation.

 

I do not think affairs are good for kids, or that they don't affect kids, but I do not think being unfaithful should/can be viewed as 'betraying the children'.

 

This stuff gets all mixed in together and I think it's because it's so evocative.

[Silly_Girl]

What scares you? The fact that kids expect the parents to be faithful. Amazingly this is a natural expectation of the children.

 

 

I didn't say that.

 

 

Blatant straw men are poor form in this forum.

 

It's the same to me, genuinely. The relationships (spouse and child, spouse and spouse) should be viewed separately, on their own merits. The BS and children are not a single unit.

[Owl]

I think this is where so muany kids get messed up. The actions of the parents relate to them. But they don't. It took years for everyone to understand that kids would balme themselves for separation.

 

I do not think affairs are good for kids, or that they don't affect kids, but I do not think being unfaithful should/can be viewed as 'betraying the children'.

 

This stuff gets all mixed in together and I think it's because it's so evocative.

 

On this we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

An affair that gets discovered will always have massive impact on the kids. They're pretty much living in ground zero while the situation resolves itself one way or another.

 

And it directly impacts both their perception of the values they were taught, and their own methods for handling future relationships.

 

Kids learn relationship skills by mimicking their parents...only rarely do they learn "not to do" something by observing their parents.

 

Its got nothing to do with trying to do an emotional play on the subject...certainly not from my viewpoint in this discussion. Kids are usually devestated when they learn that one or the other parent cheated, for the reasons I've mentioned. It shakes the foundation of their security. How could it not?

[Pierre]

I didn't say that.

 

 

 

 

It's the same to me, genuinely. The relationships (spouse and child, spouse and spouse) should be viewed separately, on their own merits. The BS and children are not a single unit.

 

Nevertheless, the kids are severely wounded by infidelity. The only exception is kids that are babies or toddlers. Grown kids, particularly teens suffer a great deal. Unless they come from a chaotic home where everybody cheats all the time. Then, they get hardened and cynical.

 

Most normal kids naturally expect fidelity from the parents.

[Silly_Girl]

On this we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

An affair that gets discovered will always have massive impact on the kids. They're pretty much living in ground zero while the situation resolves itself one way or another.

 

And it directly impacts both their perception of the values they were taught, and their own methods for handling future relationships.

 

Kids learn relationship skills by mimicking their parents...only rarely do they learn "not to do" something by observing their parents.

 

Its got nothing to do with trying to do an emotional play on the subject...certainly not from my viewpoint in this discussion. Kids are usually devestated when they learn that one or the other parent cheated, for the reasons I've mentioned. It shakes the foundation of their security. How could it not?

 

A number of things could also affect the kids in such a way.

 

I just don't think affairs should ever be viewed as something that has been 'done against the kids'. For everyone's sake.

[Silly_Girl]

Nevertheless, the kids are severely wounded by infidelity. The only exception is kids that are babies or toddlers. Grown kids, particularly teens suffer a great deal. Unless they come from a chaotic home where everybody cheats all the time. Then, they get hardened and cynical.

 

Most normal kids naturally expect fidelity from the parents.

 

Acknowledging that infidelity can devastate a family is not the same thing as saying having an affair is being unfaithful to the children.

 

I agree with the former, but not the latter.

[Owl]

A number of things could also affect the kids in such a way.

 

I just don't think affairs should ever be viewed as something that has been 'done against the kids'. For everyone's sake.

 

I can agree with that...it wasn't done 'against' the kids.

 

But does it matter if the guy driving the car that runs over you MEANT to run you over or not?

 

If he didn't meant to do it, does that mean you shouldn't be angry/hurt with him because he "didn't mean it"?

 

Then factor in that an affair is counter to the morals/values that kids are usually taught (at least in my culture.../sigh). Lying=wrong. Cheating=wrong.

 

I agree that it wasn't done against the kids...and as the BS, I tried to spell that out to my own kids in my situation.

 

But I learned that it didn't really MATTER whether or not it was intentionally done against them...they still suffered because of it.

[Owl]

I agree with the former, but not the latter.

 

You don't believe that most kids are taught to expect that their parents will be faithful to each other???

 

What do you think most kids expect/are taught to expect about relationships and fidelity?

[Silly_Girl]

I can agree with that...it wasn't done 'against' the kids.

 

But does it matter if the guy driving the car that runs over you MEANT to run you over or not?

 

If he didn't meant to do it, does that mean you shouldn't be angry/hurt with him because he "didn't mean it"?

 

Then factor in that an affair is counter to the morals/values that kids are usually taught (at least in my culture.../sigh). Lying=wrong. Cheating=wrong.

 

I agree that it wasn't done against the kids...and as the BS, I tried to spell that out to my own kids in my situation.

 

But I learned that it didn't really MATTER whether or not it was intentionally done against them...they still suffered because of it.

 

I do hear you.

 

I just think the distinction is vital. ESPECIALLY for the children.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

This really scares me.

 

It's like saying 'not loving your spouse is like not loving your kids'.

 

<shudder>

 

It's not that. This is one of those OM/OW logic things I have trouble with....maybe I will start a thread to understand.

 

A family is the unit inclusive of the children, (house, dog, relatives, friends). When a breakup happens, for whatever reason all of those parties are impacted.

 

If one party willfully harms the other, by whatever means (infidelity, abuse, murder, lies, stealing, abandonment) some of those feelings. Or the consequence of those feelings impact the unit as well.

 

You can stop loving someone, and tell them and leave. That's what we are saying.

 

Affairs are destructive to everyone. There is no barrier that protects the innocent.

[Owl]

I do hear you.

 

I just think the distinction is vital. ESPECIALLY for the children.

 

Fair enough.

 

Why? Why is that distinction vital?

 

Does it change how the kids feel about the situation, change what they learn from it?

[Silly_Girl]

You don't believe that most kids are taught to expect that their parents will be faithful to each other???

 

 

My former/latter related to my own sentence, as you quoted it.

[Silly_Girl]

Fair enough.

 

Why? Why is that distinction vital?

 

Does it change how the kids feel about the situation, change what they learn from it?

 

So they don't carry any blame. So they are able to view what has happened as havnig happened to their parents and not to THEM. So they have a better chance of a decent relationship with both parents.

[Owl]

So they don't carry any blame. So they are able to view what has happened as havnig happened to their parents and not to THEM. So they have a better chance of a decent relationship with both parents.

 

That makes sense to me. And I'd like to think that most parents would take a lot of effort to make sure that the kids did realize that they weren't 'to blame' for any of it.

 

They shouldn't have to shoulder guilt for something that they had no control over...especially not ON TOP OF the rest of the emotional burden they suddenly found thrust onto them.

[Owl]

My former/latter related to my own sentence, as you quoted it.

 

I misread...I'd thought you were referring to the quoted part of that post...and didn't catch that you'd meant the latter part of your own sentence. My apologies!

[Silly_Girl]

That makes sense to me. And I'd like to think that most parents would take a lot of effort to make sure that the kids did realize that they weren't 'to blame' for any of it.

 

I wish that happened in all cases

[Pierre]

In a survey Nogales conducted of more than 800 adult children whose parents had been unfaithful, 96 percent of respondents said cheating was not OK, even if their partner didn't find out, yet 44.1 percent had been unfaithful themselves.

 

Nogales believes children are most dramatically affected by infidelity through of the loss of trust — which doesn't always happen with divorce.

 

"(A parent) is supposed to be the person a child can trust more than anyone else," she said. "When one parent betrays another, it's a supreme breach of trust. Most of the children felt that they were betrayed by the parent, too."

 

 

"(Infidelity) is a terrible disillusion that says 'One of my parents was profoundly dishonest to my other parent. And if they're so dishonest with the parent, why would they be more honest with their kids?" he said. "You begin to question the foundations of your own relationships."

 

 

 

 

 

It's not just about the couple; infidelity can cause lasting damage to children | Deseret News

[skywriter]

It's not just about the couple; infidelity can cause lasting damage to children | Deseret News

 

The question was would you tell the children.

[Pierre]

The question was would you tell the children.

 

Ah, great point!

 

It also deviates the attention from this painful issue.

 

Babies have no need to know.

 

Grown kids: It depends--------- I would try to avoid exposing my children to the fact that the parents have betrayed them. So I vote NO, if possible. If my wife had an affair I would be OK from sparing my children of the horrendous pain.

 

 

However, if there is chaos and the children ask then it is probably OK to come clean. No need for double betrayal.

 

Single OWs minimize the pain to the kids, I get that.

[skywriter]

Ah, great point!

 

It also deviates the attention from this painful issue.

 

Babies have no need to know.

 

Grown kids: It depends--------- I would try to avoid exposing my children to the fact that the parents have betrayed them. So I vote NO, if possible. If my wife had an affair I would be OK from sparing my children of the horrendous pain.

 

 

However, if there is chaos and the children ask then it is probably OK to come clean. No need for double betrayal.

 

Single OWs minimize the pain to the kids, I get that.

 

 

Maybe some OW"s minimize, but from a woman who as been betrayed by her husband and a woman who had an affair. No bones about, don't even entertain the idea of subjecting my kids to what us adults decide to do.

 

I have protected my children from my husbands bad choices and my own.

 

MY mistakes are my burdens to carry in this world and when I face my judgement day, just the way it should be. My mother must have felt that way about what her exH had done as well.

[Pierre]

Maybe some OW"s minimize, but from a woman who as been betrayed by her husband and a woman who had an affair. No bones about, don't even entertain the idea of subjecting my kids to what us adults decide to do.

 

I have protected my children from my husbands bad choices and my own.

 

MY mistakes are my burdens to carry in this world and when I face my judgement day, just the way it should be. My mother must have felt that way about what her exH had done as well.

 

I agree that when the parents messed up the kids should be protected.

 

I would only tell if the kids demand to know. Nevertheless, some kids learn of the affair 20-30 later and they still feel the pain. And it helps them to explain things that made no sense when they were growing up.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

The kids know...whether you tell them or not. Maybe not the details. But they know.

[Quiet Storm]

It's interesting how many OW are counselors or "former" counselors.

 

I would be honest about it with an older child. I would try to shelter the youngs ones.

 

I think it is your job as a parent to protect your kids. And I think having an affair, which has the potential to turn their lives upside down & destroy their sense of security, is definitely a betrayal to the kids. (I am not a BS)

 

The most important thing in a child's life is their family unit. Cheating/ gambling money away/ addictions... any of this robs children of the stable environment they deserve in order to grow & mature in a healthy way. Kids become collateral damage on their parents quest to find romance and/or get high. It sucks for them. I'd never do that to my kids, no matter how bad my marriage was.

 

I think many cheaters have character defects that will affect the kids in time, regardless of the affair. So I think even if the kids are not told, they will eventually realize that parent has issues. So for the BS's that want their kids to see what kind of person WS is....9/10 times they eventually will. On their own. It's better that way anyway. WS love to blame their relationships with their kids on a vindictive BS...they have a hard time fathoming that their behavior destroyed the relationship all on it's own.

 

When kids become educated, go to college, take psych, get counseling for their own problems- it will become clear that their parent is a conflict avoider, weak, has low self esteem, is manipulative, etc. It is very eye opening when kids become educated enough to put their past in context. It's like a puzzle falling into place. It's very freeing, in a way.

 

These days, many kids are much more tech savvy then their parents. If kids find out who OW is, it doesn't mean BS told them. Many kids know about history, keyloggers, hidden phone apps that forward every text, secret email or facebook accounts. We don't live in a sheltered world where all information gets filtered by the parents anymore. Many kids figure out who OW is all on their own.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Quiet Storm

[Lady2163]

It's interesting how many OW are counselors or "former" counselors. n.

 

I say this tongue in cheek, but you really don't want to know how many people in "helping" professions are totally F'd up.

[skywriter]

There is a big difference between being honest with your children in an age appropriate way and committing emotional incest.

 

If a BW is crying on her children and making them feel responsible for her in any way then that is wrong wrong wrong! My mother started laying her crap on me as far back as I can remember and I can remember as far back as being 3 yrs old. It sickens me to remember how when I was just a toddler she expected me to give her more emotional support than she could give me. And she never changed. When I left home she did the same to my brothers. She ruined my relationship with my grandmother. I adored my grandma when I was little because I usually lived with her (or whoever else my mother could pawn me off on) as my mother was too selfish and self absorbed to let herself be tied down to a little kid, but she carried deep resentment towards her own mother for perceived wrongs that were long past. So she would tell me horrible things about my grandma and it left me feeling so conflicted because by loving my grandma I felt like I was being disloyal to my mother. My mother didn't want to take care of me but she sure as hell didn't want me loving or bonding with the one person who was taking care of me. Sickening is what that was.

 

However one has to be careful that in protecting their children and their relationships that they don't slip into outright lying to them. Some children are at risk of finding out about the affair from other people. If one lives in a close knit community and the affair becomes known to gossipy people then there's a good chance the kids are going to hear about it anyways and in that case it's better that they hear it from their parents first. Some kids have actually been the one to catch the WS in the affair, sometimes they know about it before the BS even does. Older children are not little naïve toddlers, they know about cheating and affairs and may just come right out and ask their parents if one of them had an affair. Parents can be honest with their children without turning it into some kind of dramatic hell that will emotionally scar them for life.

 

I also disagree that the lying and deceit within the affair is completely separate from the children. Affairs can and do take time and attention away from the family unit as a whole. When the kids ask their cheating parent why they are away so much or where they are going the cheater has to tell the kids the same lies they tell the BS. On the infidelity boards many BS talk about the WS not just becoming distant towards them but becoming emotionally distant towards the kids too. They talk of the WS always being preoccupied and irritable with little patience or time for their kids. Oh I'm sure there are some exceptions to this but you see it on the infidelity boards enough to know it's quite common for a cheating spouse to emotionally check out, not just on the marriage but on the whole family. So I think kids do pay a price for affairs whether they know of the affair or not.

 

I'm very sorry Alexandria for what you had to go through. My mother must've went to great lengths to manage to keep us 5 kids out of the loop, and I'm very grateful, hearing these stories and knowing about my girlsfriends boys.