"I'll pay you back..." Yeah right!

[soccerrprp]

Ok guys.. apparently I made him out to be this financial user. He actually is a generous person.. he has helped me out too so I don't want him to appear as a total leech because I don't think that's what's going on here. I mean, the end result is the same, yes, but I'm pretty sure this is not him trying to get out of paying for something. It's more like he's trying to get out of paying for something on someone else's terms. That's what really pisses me off.. that he lives by his own timeframe and doesn't seem to feel or care about others' needs when it comes to payment/repayment. He doesn't care about (or maybe understand?) that its crappy to make someone wait around for payment, and that he's being flaky and irresponsible: I truly don't think he has considered this perspective. I know I'm screwing up because I haven't said anything to him about it, I just boil internally instead which is awful and destructive. I could tell him but I'm just not sure how. It's one if those weird positions to be in where for me, it's blatantly obvious that transactions shouldn't be handled this way, so I'm just super aggravated to have to point this out. That's why I was thinking maybe I should just have learned a lesson instead and never put myself in this position again.

 

It's this... he's not leeching off me because he doesn't want to pay the money. Yes, it is disrespectful but sadly I don't think he realizes this.

 

Okay, well, it certainly seemed like he was being a leech originally. I agree that it's a little more disconcerting that he is this way while he is capable of paying you back. It could also be that he is more cautious, hesitant b/c of past wife.

 

I also tend not to agree with that idea that he does not realize what is happening. I mean you have brought it to his attention, right? So, he must be aware, right?

 

Come right out and talk to him about it. This is an imperative. Financial incompatibility is top 3 reasons for divorces, failed relationships for a reason. Need to address such behavior before it gets even more serious and you certainly don't want people outside of your own relationship, ie. your brother (who hasn't been paid yet for work) thinking ill of him.

[Balzac]

It seems you are getting off target by evaluating this as a "financial equity problem". In your mind, as long as he pays more money for your benefit, his seeming refusal to reimburse you is excused.

 

One might conclude you're willing to hang on because its net gain to you.

[SoleMate]

How do I tell him "no I don't want to go in halves with you"? Without sounding like a bitch, how do I tell someone that? And what's my reasoning?

 

i

t's not that he doesn't have the money. He DOES, and he pays for plenty. He makes good money, is generous and is perfectly willing to pay for our dinners out, groceries, coffee... whatever. He is plenty giving with his money but terrible at paying me back - this is where my issue is. Him repaying when it's owed. Him stringing it along forever until it's a raw issue or forgotten about. I don't even think he does it intentionally per say, I mean.. I know it's not accidental, but I don't think he's trying to get away with something necessarily. I think he just feels it's no big deal to owe me, and probably doesn't even intend to string me along, but as is his normal routine, he procrastinates and makes everything a non-issue. He follows only his clock. He is literally NEVER punctual, and I can probably roll that right into most areas of his life. He does never gets to my house when he says.. never. He is late everywhere he goes, he puts things off, and is a huge procrastinator. This money issue I have with him probably ties right in, but it directly affects me and I'm not appreciating it.

 

At first we were all thinking your bf is just a deadbeat user because that is such a common pattern. As more facts develop, I see a different picture: a bf who is (or acts) scatterbrained, plus you, with boundary issues and inability to say no. E.g. a transaction between BF and Son. The proper response to either of them is: "That's between the two of you." E.g. x2: "Thanks for the thought, but I'd rather not pay for massages right now." That's not bitchy, that's just common sense. Do you demand "a reason" why this affluent individual needs you to bankroll his every massage?

 

If I were you, I would strive to build a firewall between all of BF's finances and expenses and transaction, and my own.

[soccerrprp]

Appleanche,

 

I also would warn you of minimizing this in any way just b/c you dread the idea of considering whether this guy is right for you or no. You have much to lose if this is not rectified.

 

The tone of your original posts and the title of the thread clearly indicates that this is major source of angst for you. Perhaps a genuine deal-breaker issue, though you may not want to admit it.

 

Other posters see this as an important concern, too. Don't compromise on this I say...

[dasein]

If you continue this relationship, keep a very informal ledger of who pays what for a few months and get some true perspective on the situation. Normally that isn't done as BF/GF, but in this case it seems warranted. Going forward, don't allow latepay situations to arise with you in the middle, and don't allow either party to bring you in as a third party, "that's between you and X." If mutual friends get involved in money things, I make it clear when one of them complains, "this is between you and X, not me."

[darkmoon]

I think you are scared of what might happen - an argument - so just tell him you are saving up for something, sorry, but I have no spare money

 

you two need to budget the books properly, not just you, both sit down and discuss expenses

[Appleanche]

i

 

At first we were all thinking your bf is just a deadbeat user because that is such a common pattern. As more facts develop, I see a different picture: a bf who is (or acts) scatterbrained, plus you, with boundary issues and inability to say no. E.g. a transaction between BF and Son. The proper response to either of them is: "That's between the two of you." E.g. x2: "Thanks for the thought, but I'd rather not pay for massages right now." That's not bitchy, that's just common sense. Do you demand "a reason" why this affluent individual needs you to bankroll his every massage?

 

If I were you, I would strive to build a firewall between all of BF's finances and expenses and transaction, and my own.

 

Regarding the bolded above, you are right. I do have boundary issues and do find it hard to say no. I try to please too much and then feel like I end up getting the short end of the stick. I should have just told my son to ask for the money himself, because truthfully I wanted no part of it. That would have saved me the grief, and then my son could get a taste of what business dealings with him are like and judge for himself whether or not he wants to do any more work for him. Right now that is a possibility and I am cringing at the idea.

[ja123]

I agree. That being said, it's not that he doesn't have the money. He DOES, and he pays for plenty. He makes good money, is generous and is perfectly willing to pay for our dinners out, groceries, coffee... whatever. He is plenty giving with his money but terrible at paying me back - this is where my issue is. Him repaying when it's owed. Him stringing it along forever until it's a raw issue or forgotten about. I don't even think he does it intentionally per say, I mean.. I know it's not accidental, but I don't think he's trying to get away with something necessarily. I think he just feels it's no big deal to owe me, and probably doesn't even intend to string me along, but as is his normal routine, he procrastinates and makes everything a non-issue. He follows only his clock. He is literally NEVER punctual, and I can probably roll that right into most areas of his life. He does never gets to my house when he says.. never. He is late everywhere he goes, he puts things off, and is a huge procrastinator. This money issue I have with him probably ties right in, but it directly affects me and I'm not appreciating it.

 

 

He is passive-aggressive. Do you really want this in your life?

 

Please read the below for more information on passive-aggressive behaviour. And, yes, you are enabling, so you'll need to look at yourself for codependency issues and how to establish boundaries.

 

Passive Aggressive Behavior: A Form of Domestic Abuse

[Appleanche]

Appleanche,

 

I also would warn you of minimizing this in any way just b/c you dread the idea of considering whether this guy is right for you or no. You have much to lose if this is not rectified.

 

The tone of your original posts and the title of the thread clearly indicates that this is major source of angst for you. Perhaps a genuine deal-breaker issue, though you may not want to admit it.

 

Other posters see this as an important concern, too. Don't compromise on this I say...

 

Oh I'm not minimizing, just trying to clarify that he is not leeching off me. I don't want everyone focusing their advice in that direction because that's just a waste of time. Scatterbrained, procrastinating, undervaluing what's important to someone else simply because its not important to him... that's more accurately the problem. Me not communicating with him on what bothers me.. also the problem.

 

Yes it is a major source of angst for me. I don't like the way he handles himself in these situations. I don't like being in this position and I feel sorta spineless for not saying it like it is. I don't know why I'm struggling to do that with him.

[Appleanche]

He is passive-aggressive. Do you really want this in your life?

 

Please read the below for more information on passive-aggressive behaviour. And, yes, you are enabling, so you'll need to look at yourself for codependency issues and how to establish boundaries.

 

Passive Aggressive Behavior: A Form of Domestic Abuse

 

That link, OMG. My heart sunk when I read some of those descriptors, because sadly, that's him. Victimization, Procrastination, Obstructionism... wow. As an example, I have told him that it bothers me when he is late in coming over to my house... and literally he is late 95% of the time. We have discussed this more than a few times and he says he will work on it by doing A, B or C differently. After our conversation he'll get here a little earlier once or twice maybe, and then he's right back to rollin' in late. If he weren't doing it on purpose he'd get to my house early by accident at least occasionally, but that doesn't ever happen so I know he's living by his own clock. F**k what I want. And like the link says, it IS confusing for me because he appears to want to change but he never follows through.

[ja123]

I'm sorry the link proves to be accurate, but at least identifying what is going on is the beginning of getting out of the confusion. I just happened upon it yesterday, as I'm dealing with someone who is passive aggressive in my life (not a bf), and I was looking for some tools in order to be able to grapple with the situation.

 

A book I've found helpful is Susan Forward's "Emotional Blackmail". Also, "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud and John Townsend.

 

Good luck!

[dasein]

Not disagreeing with the passive-aggressive stuff, but it puts my teeth on edge reading that highly biased article and seeing behaviors that most all of us engage in from time to time categorized as "abuse." I will bet an internet dollar that the woman who wrote that article deals exclusively or almost exclusively with female clients. That's where the money is after all, creating "abuse" out of thin air. Nothing in OP's post suggest abuse, and I know this was not your intent, but now she has an "abuse" bug in her ear, which is absurd given the actual facts. Abuse hysteria is "abusing" us all.

[ja123]

It was not my intent, dasein. However, passive-aggressive behaviour can be abusive depending on the frequency and intensity. I do not know enough about the OP's situation to make assumptions. The article, however, does provide a good outline of what constitutes passive-aggressive behaviour. In addition, I don't see how the article is gender-biased as you seem to claim. Furthermore, there are other links following the article indicating that women can be abusive too. Abusers can be of either gender. It is also important to note that there are abusive systems or dysfunctional systems, which is why I also mentioned codependency.

[dasein]

This is a guy who doesn't handle certain financial obligations well, but handles others just fine. I think it's really stretching to try to categorize that as "abuse." If that's "abuse," then I abused the BLT I had for supper tonight, and am going to go and "abuse" my mattress soon by falling asleep on it.

[ja123]

Where did I say that, dasein? I like a lot of your posts, but I feel you're allowing your personal bias to colour your argument, in this case. Particularly if this man's MO is to not pay when asked, then there's a problem that needs to be addressed. To what extent this problem just is what it is or to where it approaches "abuse" is not for either of us to say, as we do not know the OP or the man involved. What's important here is that his behaviour is causing OP great distress and she's asking for feedback on the situation. What would you do, dasein, if you were dating a woman who displayed similar behaviour as the OP's bf? How would you deal with it?

[dasein]

Well, as previously posted, I don't let it happen any more, not just with paying. Have found that people will involve you as a third party in all sorts of scenarios if it is allowed to form. For example, if I went to my parents as a child and asked for help collecting a lawn mowing debt, I had best better have asked for the money several times before doing so. I don't do "pitch in" deals with people, where one person is to pay later especially, even my best friends, and haven't borrowed or lent money in a long time. I especially don't mix finances with GFs if at all possible, and if there is a shared expense, I either make sure the money is all pitched in up front or assume it never will be from the start and don't participate unless I can accept that.

 

It's sad the nadir we have reached in what was standard human accountability and behavior, but it is what it is and I just bristle at this as being abusive. If so, 80% of everyone is abusive today.