How can they NOT know?

[canuckprincess]

OK, got it.

 

 

You like many OWs are not proud to be in the affair..

 

Many OWs want to believe the wife knows. When they assume the wife knows they feel justified to continue the affair. Some go as far as to not call it an affair. At this point they say, the MM has has an open marriage.

 

It is nothing more than rationalization.:cool:

 

I can't speak for others but in my current situation the bs has known for almost 2 years.

[Pierre]

I believe this to be the case in my situation. Perhaps the bs is just grateful that the ws is still coming home to them and therefore choose to ignore all the evidence and their own gut instinct.

 

 

 

Sure, makes sense. It is best to assume the wife knows because then you feel you are less intrusive into their marriage. I believe this was the concern of OP.

 

Keep in mind we have no idea what these ws's are telling the bs or how their acting at home. I truly wish I could be a fly on the wall for just one evening.

 

 

I am glad to find someone that has her feet on the ground. Good for you!!

[Pierre]

The married man I'm seeing is incredibly smart in his field, a little less smart in world events and can be a bit of a doofus when it comes to his phone. He's not real good with the covering up details.

 

I only text him when I know I will see him that day. Before he leaves the room, I clean his phone log and text log. Phone log isn't as important...unless he has called me. I block my number when I call him.

 

Very early on I asked him if he was TRYING to get caught.

 

He is simply not good at deception. That is why a long distance OW works for him. If you lived close by he would have been caught a long time.

[bentleychic]

OK, got it.

 

 

You like many OWs are not proud to be in the affair..

 

Many OWs want to believe the wife knows. When they assume the wife knows they feel justified to continue the affair. Some go as far as to not call it an affair. At this point they say, the MM has has an open marriage.

 

It is nothing more than rationalization.:cool:

 

I wouldn't believe she knew or it was an open marriage unless I heard it from her own mouth so no. Sorry! I don't want to believe the wife knows. I hope she doesn't, for both of their sakes. NOTHING can justify what I am doing/have done or make it okay and I realize I am a horrible person for it. Make no mistakes on that. I feel that I am just as culpable for harming her/their marriage as he is.

 

I guess I should have read this board more to get the feel of it. I'm not sure how simple questions turned in to false accusations, but bravo on that leap!

[bentleychic]

NM not worth it. Obviously not the forum I thought it was.

[canuckprincess]

Sure, makes sense. It is best to assume the wife knows because then you feel you are less intrusive into their marriage. I believe this was the concern of OP.

 

 

 

 

I am glad to find someone that has her feet on the ground. Good for you!!

 

My friend is also involved with a mm and she is always commenting on how I investigate everything anyone tells me. I trust no one until I can prove what they are saying is the gods honest truth. Major trust issues I know.

[Pierre]

His wife not having any idea should be a huge red flag to you. Instead of thinking she' a dumbass or in denial you may want to consider that he is just as sweet and loving as he has always been to her and nothing has changed on the homefront. He may be even more pleasant and sexually active with her because you are providing him with a nice break from the boring routine of everyday life.

 

Hypersexuality with the spouse at home when the AP is not available is certainly possible, mostly in men. I agree!

 

I have known of APs having phone sex and then the MM has sex with the wife because the AP made him horny.

[Mycatsnuggles]

My job is working with other people who lie and manipulate. It surprises me how easy it is to identify when someone is lying to me. What I have come to realize is that my lack of emotional connection is what allows me to recognize the lies. It is not that the people are so good at lying, it is more the parties emotional involvement. When someone tells a person close to them a lie the other party is emotionally invested, theyWANT to believe the lie. From my experience lying is easiest to someone who loves you it is much harder to lie to strangers. Why judges, prosecutors and counselors can recognize liars. It is not the training or even the experience, we are not emotionally invested in the persons response. Listening to their words not inferring what we WISH the response to be. This is not only for a BS but a parent, friend or any relationship where we CARE. About the other person. I don't believe the BS is deceiving themselves.

 

With strangers I can recognize the lies with people close to me I can easily be deceived. The more often we catch someone in a lie, we begin to suspect and recognize lying..

[canuckprincess]

NM not worth it. Obviously not the forum I thought it was.

 

What do you mean? Are you the ow?

[Pierre]

I wouldn't believe she knew or it was an open marriage unless I heard it from her own mouth so no. Sorry! I don't want to believe the wife knows. I hope she doesn't, for both of their sakes. NOTHING can justify what I am doing/have done or make it okay and I realize I am a horrible person for it. Make no mistakes on that. I feel that I am just as culpable for harming her/their marriage as he is.

 

I guess I should have read this board more to get the feel of it. I'm not sure how simple questions turned in to false accusations, but bravo on that leap!

 

Anyone can have an affair if they are lonely. I don't think you are a bad person at all. I can tell you have a conscience.

 

My concern is why you subject yourself to this. From your post it is obvious you are satisfied to simply be the OW. There is no plan in place for this guy to leave his wife. I am curious to see why you reached this level of expectation.

 

 

I have read the typical responses: Not interested in a full time relationship, want freedom, etc. But, I think it is rationalization.

 

What do you really want from this relationship?

[bentleychic]

What do you mean? Are you the ow?

 

I am and some of you are following the what this board says it is. I thank you for that. Others not so much. I should have known better than to start posting. Will go back to lurking.

[Pierre]

My friend is also involved with a mm and she is always commenting on how I investigate everything anyone tells me. I trust no one until I can prove what they are saying is the gods honest truth. Major trust issues I know.

 

There are people that trust others. They tend to be innocent and have never been burned. They judge others from their perspective.

[bentleychic]

Anyone can have an affair if they are lonely. I don't think you are a bad person at all. I can tell you have a conscience.

 

My concern is why you subject yourself to this. From your post it is obvious you are satisfied to simply be the OW. There is no plan in place for this guy to leave his wife. I am curious to see why you reached this level of expectation.

 

 

I have read the typical responses: Not interested in a full time relationship, want freedom, etc. But, I think it is rationalization.

 

What do you really want from this relationship?

 

Completely honestly, as stupid as this sounds, there is a plan in place, there is a goal and no, I am not satisfied to be the other woman forever. I haven't shared details b/c they are pretty specific and there's a stupid side of me that would truly hate for her to come upon this forum and find it. (I mean their plan for future is very, very specific and not like others I have heard here. If I posted it here, she would have a very good suspicion that it was about her, if he's telling the truth and from all signs on their fb pages, he is.)

 

I guess I can sum it up by saying what I want from this relationship is him which is what he has promised me. And I am fully aware that most MM say the exact same thing and most OW believe them and hope they are the exception to the rule. I have a time line in place in my head and I WILL walk if that time line is passed without certain things taking place that have been promised and he knows this (or sooner if I cannot handle this roller coaster that long).

[canuckprincess]

I am and some of you are following the what this board says it is. I thank you for that. Others not so much. I should have known better than to start posting. Will go back to lurking.

 

No don't go, ignore the bs's that are bitter. They can't seem to control their own relationships so they try to piss on your parade. This is not all bs but the few who give advice but they don't take advice. They only agree with people that tell them what they need to hear. Stuff like, the ow meant nothing which we know isn't always the case.

[MissBee]

Although some might like to portray the BS as having their head in the sand, I have to say I think it it is pretty fair to say that many AP have their heads in the sand. WS know how to lie. They know how to use and abuse trust. Whether that be the trust of a BS an AP.

 

Further, you can't know if someone is in denial if you aren't a fly on the wall at their home. As I said, as the OW, you're privy to the deceit so it seems obvious to you...you have no idea about their home routine and how the BS feels or not, and many gather their evidence before even accusing their spouse of an A...so you don't know what's what. Unless the MM admits it or they catch him red-handed but still pretend not to know, you cannot say the person is in denial.

 

OW have come here shocked and upset that MM had an other OW or several! They should have been more keen than the BS since they already see him lying and sneaking all the time in front of their face....yet, they don't see it coming either. Why? Many of them decide to trust that they're the only OW so aren't looking around for red flags about his behavior or he lies plausibly about it.

[bentleychic]

Don't go away. You will find many perspectives (which, likely you wanted as you came here) some you may agree with, others, not so much. Truly listen to the words you think might not apply. They may be the most revealing.

 

That's the problem, I know that most of them do apply to me! LOL Trust me when I say that I am NOT in denial. I very well know that I may very likely be one of the "OW statistics" and have said that very exact thing to him just last week. I am VERY up front with him on my feelings about this and the fact that I've basically given up the morals and ethics that I believe in when I jumped in with both feet without looking. I guess even though I KNOW what I am doing is wrong and even though I know walking away is the best thing for me and even though (this sounds stupid, but true) I absolutely do not want her hurt, I'm not ready to give up the slight hope of a future with him, yet.

[MissBee]

I believe this to be the case in my situation. Perhaps the bs is just grateful that the ws is still coming home to them and therefore choose to ignore all the evidence and their own gut instinct.

Keep in mind we have no idea what these ws's are telling the bs or how their acting at home. I truly wish I could be a fly on the wall for just one evening.

 

Ditto to the bold...without that, one cannot determine if the person is in denial or being fed plausible bullshyt.

 

I do think OW sometimes feel comforted to think the BS is in denial...almost as if it makes them feel like what they're doing isn't so bad, as the BS knows, but doesn't care...so it's almost like the BS saying they're in an open marriage or something. My friend who was dating a MM tried to say this, that his wife knew....I was like "Did he tell her?" Her: "...No." Well then you cannot say she knows! You don't live at their house and you have no clue how he acts there and what is their normal. He travels a lot for work and much of his time spent with her was under the guise of his job, so there were lots of ways he could see her and be with her and have it go under the radar...yet it seemed to make her feel better to think his wife knew but wasn't doing anything about it.

[canuckprincess]

You'll be in good company, as most OW have faced that timeline and lost. Perhaps you'll be one of those very few exceptions. Are you willing to wait, put your life on hold, for that big fat maybe? Only you can answer that.

 

How do you figure waiting for mm is putting her life on hold. My life isn't on hold, I'm living my life and he's a huge part of it.

[Pierre]

I guess I can sum it up by saying what I want from this relationship is him which is what he has promised me. And I am fully aware that most MM say the exact same thing and most OW believe them and hope they are the exception to the rule. I have a time line in place in my head and I WILL walk if that time line is passed without certain things taking place that have been promised and he knows this (or sooner if I cannot handle this roller coaster that long).

 

My prayers are with you. But, there is a good chance you are been played. Just as he is playing the wife. She suspects nothing, and YOU suspect nothing: You cannot see he is playing you.

 

But, maybe I am wrong. In any event I wish you luck.

[canuckprincess]

Well, that's just not fair, and you know it. There are plenty of BS and FOW who are more than willing to offer advice to this OP.

 

I said some not all, I've been a bs an ow and a ws. So my post refers to those that come on this forum to harass the ow.

[bentleychic]

And you know what, you just may be. Might be that woman who snags that MM! Makes him yours. But look deep. Is that what you want? Knowing all you know. Would he excuse all of your behavior, deep in a marriage, and not cheat on you?

 

That is the question I ask myself often. As well as "Will I constantly think he's cheating on ME? When he's home late for work, or going fishing or hunting or out with buddies? Would I ever be able to fully trust him?"

 

And for the record, I know many OW probably say this, but there is no way in heck that I would have gotten involved with the intent to "snag a married man" out of a happy relationship. NEVER. My goal was never to steal a man away from a happy marriage and even right now, knowing what I know and feeling how I feel, if he told me they were happy or he told me they were going to work on their marriage, I would walk away in a heart beat for their sake. I won't say I wouldn't be sad, but if he told me there was any hope, I certainly would. I have offered that many times.

 

My life isn't on hold. Truth is, I have fabulous friends, busy with job and kids and although I'd love a little more time with my MM, my schedule is pretty darn full as it is.

[bentleychic]

My prayers are with you. But, there is a good chance you are been played. Just as he is playing the wife. She suspects nothing, and YOU suspect nothing: You cannot see he is playing you.

 

But, maybe I am wrong. In any event I wish you luck.

 

Oh I suspect and I'm prepared, as much as you can prepare yourself once your heart is already involved. Truly feel at this point that if it ends up horribly, it's probably what I deserve for doing what I've done. Karma?

 

For now, I do sincerely enjoy our conversations and the time that we have together. He makes me smile, laugh and is a great listening ear. He is my best friend and he says the same about me. I do know he talks to me more than anyone else in his life so I don't doubt that one.

 

Do they have kids? If they have kids the best way for a future with him is to stop until he separates. His wife won't want you near her children etc etc. If they separate first without your involvement you could end up having a good relationship with her and her children.

No, they do not have any kids. He does, but they are grown.

 

Someone mentioned putting lives on hold. I've already had all of the babies that I plan to have so I'm definitely not putting that on hold.

[whereamigoing]

In my case they lived very separately. We didn't hide it much. We went out frequently though there was no PDA because that's just not how I do things. He spent loads of time at my house. Frequent texts, calls, and emails. She didn't suspect a thing because it never crossed her mind. If people knew they would be shocked as he doesn't seem to be the "type" to have an affair. Someone finally planted a bug in her ear and it didn't take much for her to confirm and find the details.

 

Let me postulate for a minute:

Given the rather large percentage of married men who admit to cheating (women too) I find it surprising that a lot of BS are of the "it would never happen to me" club. There has to be some denial there in a bigger picture sense. Because yes it can happen to you and because of that perhaps being a little aware of your significant other's goings on is advisable. Not that BS lack if awareness is to blame, that is not what I am saying.

[bentleychic]

No kids together? So this is his second marriage and it's not working? Sorry another red flag.

 

What is he waiting for if they don't have kids? He's already been divorced once so he knows that's doable.

 

I don't really want to put that much detail out here about why the wait. Like I said, if she ever stumbled upon this forum, it would be almost a dead giveaway. I know that probably sounds very stupid, given the circumstances and how big the WWW is, but it's important to me, in my own screwed up way.