Depressed, Possible BPD? Narcissistic? Ex Girlfriend Left Me For Someone Else.

[Downtown]

She was with me for 6 years though so did that by the end of it mean nothing? She didn't ever thank me for sticking by her, even when I asked her to....Why is that impossible for her?

MB, as I tried to explain above, you were dealing with a woman whose emotional development is frozen at the level of a four year old -- if she has strong BPD traits as you suspect. It therefore is perfectly reasonable that her current reality has nothing to do with your 6 years of gifts and sacrifices.

 

When you give a four year old a set of toys, she will absolutely adore you. And, when you take one of those toys away, she will throw a temper tantrum and hate you. That's the way emotionally immature people behave. You behaved exactly the same way in your early childhood. Your reality was whatever strong feeling you were experiencing at the moment. So it is with your exGF, if she is a BPDer (i.e., has strong traits). I explain that in greater detail in my posts in Rebel's thread. You will find them by following the link I provided above in my post #14.

She then proceeded to say I was crazy, how ironic when she was the one with mental health issues?

Not only "ironic" but also very predictable. If she is a BPDer, her subconscious mind protects her fragile ego from seeing too much of reality. Because a BPDer is filled with shame and self loathing, the last thing she wants to see is one more mistake or flaw that must be added to the long list of things she hates about herself.

 

Her subconscious therefore protects her by projecting all those hurtful thoughts and feelings onto you, allowing her to believe that the pain is coming from outside of her. Because the projection is done entirely at the subconscious level, a BPDer actually will be convinced it is true. And, a week later when her feelings have changed 180 degrees, she also will be convinced that the exact opposite is true too.

I wonder if this new relationship she is in will last?

You wonder? You can't be serious. If she is as emotionally unstable as you describe, nothing "will last." She doesn't even know today what she will want a month from now. That's why she cannot trust herself and, until she learns how to do that, she is incapable of trusting you.

I cared for her and nurtured her after her latest binge where she begged for my help. This is when she took the 100 pounds off me to pay her cocaine debt knowing full well she was at the very least emotionally cheating on me.

MB, I agree with Emilia, KeepOn, and Maturity that you should start focusing on your own issues because you almost certainly have strong aspects of codependency, i.e., what I referred to in post #14 as your being an "excessive caregiver" like me. I therefore second Emilia's suggestion that you read the book, Codependent No More. I also suggest you read the article by therapist Shari Schreiber at DO YOU LOVE TO BE NEEDED, OR NEED TO BE LOVED?.

 

Please be very skeptical and weary of anything your read online about codependence. Because it is not defined (or even mentioned) in the APA's diagnostic manual, the term means whatever you say it means. Significantly, CoDA (the largest association devoted to codependents) doesn't even try to define it. Instead, they simply provide a grocery list of over 50 traits that includes everything but the kitchen sink.

Leaving me for another guy made me feel so inadequate.

No, her actions did not "make you" feel anything. Rather, that is what you CHOSE to do. When a man has been in a toxic relationship for six years, the toxicity is not something that SHE is doing to you. Instead, it is something you BOTH are doing to each other. Of course, her contribution to the toxicity -- i.e., her tantrums, drug abuse, and lying -- are easy to see.

 

Your contribution, however, is more difficult to see because -- after all -- you were "only trying to help." Yet, a normal healthy man does not willingly subject himself to that abuse and disrespect for so many years. What normally happens is that the man will enjoy the passionate honeymoon period with a BPDer for six months. Then he will spend maybe 6 to 12 more months trying to restore the relationship to the bliss he saw at the beginning. Hence, after 12 or 18 months, the guy with strong personal boundaries walks out -- never to return.

 

What keeps guys like you returning for 6 years -- and guys like me for 15 years -- is called codependency. This is why Emilia, KeepOn, Maturity, and I have been encouraging you to start focusing on yourself. Otherwise, you are at great risk of leaving this woman only to run right into the arms of another one just like her.

So people agree her behaviour screams bpd?

I agree that most of the dysfunctional behaviors you describe are classic traits of BPD. I nonetheless offer several cautions:

 

• BPD is a "spectrum disorder," which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all nine of the BPD traits. At issue, then, is not whether your exGF has the nine traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she has most of those traits at a strong and persistent level. Not having met her, I cannot know the answer to that question. Yet, after dating her for six years, you should be capable of spotting any and all strong traits that are occurring -- if you take time to learn the nine red flags to look for.
  
• You likely will NEVER know whether she "has BPD." As I noted earlier, only professionals can make that determination and, if it occurs, it is very unlikely they will tell her -- much less you -- the name of her disorder. That information usually is withheld from high functioning BPDers for their own protection.
  
• For the purposes of deciding whether someone makes a good marriage candidate, you do not need a diagnosis of BPD, NPD, etc. The threshold for meeting the diagnostic criteria is set extremely high to meet the needs of the courts and insurance companies -- not to meet the needs of prospective spouses. Hence, even when the severity of a woman's BPD traits falls well below that diagnostic threshold, those traits still can be strong enough to make your life miserable and to undermine a marriage.
  
• Although you cannot diagnose your exGF, you are capable of spotting the warning signs for various disorders. Indeed, before you graduated high school, you already could identify the selfish and very grandiose classmates -- without knowing how to diagnose Narcissistic PD. You could identify the class drama queen -- without being able to diagnose Histrionic PD. You could spot the kids having no respect for laws or other peoples' property or feelings -- without diagnosing Antisocial PD. And you could recognize the very shy and over-sensitive classmates -- without diagnosing Avoidant PD. Similarly, you will be able to spot strong BPD traits when they occur.
  
• Her having strong BPD traits does NOT rule out her also having strong traits of other disorders. On the contrary, a recent study found that 74% of BPDers also have one or two co-occurring personality disorders (e.g., NPD or ASPD) and, on top of that, 75% of BPDers also have a mood disorder (e.g., depression, anxiety, or bipolar) and 73% of BPDers also have substance abuse disorder (e.g., the alcohol and cocaine abuse you've seen).
  

She's not alcohol dependent but she's a alcoholic. Does this certify even more that my thinking is correct that she has bpd?

No, most alcoholics don't have strong BPD traits except, perhaps, when they are drunk. That is, drug abuse is one of the things that can cause a temporary flareup of the normal BPD traits that most of us have. (Such flareups also can be caused by a hormone change, great stress, brain injury, or brain tumor.)

 

Hence, when a woman is exhibiting strong BPD traits together with strong drug abuse, it is unclear which is the cause and which is the result. The drugs may be causing a flareup of the BPD traits or, conversely, BPD may be causing the lack of impulse control that leads to drug abuse. This is why professionals generally don't try to assess the severity of a PD until the drug abuse has been brought under control.

 

An important issue, then, is whether the BPD traits you describe were there throughout the six years, starting about six months into your relationship. If I understand you correctly, the worst drug abuse occurred only in the four months. It therefore would be useful to know what her behavior was like between the time she used cannabis daily and her four months on heavy cocaine and alcohol. It also would be useful to know her family history. Typically, a lifetime problem with BPD traits starts showing strongly at puberty.

She had terrible mood swings, emotionally unstable.

As I noted above, having strong BPD traits does not rule out bipolar disorder. Indeed, about a third of BPDers also have bipolar. IME, the mood changes associated with the two disorders typically are very different. For example, whereas bipolar mood swings typically take two weeks to develop and last for several weeks, a BPD mood change (e.g., temper tantrum) usually develops in ten seconds and lasts only several hours. If you are interested, I describe 12 differences I've seen between those two types of behavior in my post at http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/380507-calling-all-those-bpd-14.html#post4754080.

[mbgeezle]

Thank you so much for your reply. When I first met her, she was an extremely angry young girl. She went to college as she didn't really attend high school. She would wake up in the morning and instantly be angry, crash and banging, constant face of thunder I liked to call it. But it really was for no reason other than having to do something she didn't want to do.

 

The paranoia about me began. Who are you with? What are you doing? How long will you be? What's the price of gold? You get the picture. I never said your paranoid or whatever but it was evident she was. She was a great girlfriend nonetheless. She'd look after me by washing, cleaning, cooking. She was great for that. But emotionally she was unstable. She always told me she was a virgin when we met. I always knew that wasn't the case but she persistently said she was. I left it but I no and everyone who knows her knows it is a lie. Her cannabis use was daily, if she didn't get it she'd be angry. I was the same for a time but I got mine under control. I knew there was a problem and took steps solving it

 

Her father is a alcoholic. She has 2 older brother's (same father), one younger sister (different father). Her dad was a alcoholic, functioning alcoholic, he didn't hit her mum or anything like that but they split up anyway when she was about 8/10 and she lived with her mum. Her mum was unstable for s few years, the 2 brothers where troublesome and would get into trouble with drugs and the law. She didn't really go to school, she always said her and her mum hated each other for years. She met her sisters father and it all went downhill, he was physically abusive to her mother and she saw this. He also sexually assaulted her and I'm almost sure he did the same to my ex. She always expressed how much she hated the guy. He used to be extremely inappropriate. He left her mother out of the blue, she had his child and her mum then got a stress disorder after giving birth that pregnant women get. My ex said she basically brought her younger sister up for a few years because her mother was a angry, volatile, mess to put it Frank. My ex was 14/15 at the time. Shes been through a lot no doubt. Her dads in a home now from drinking herself to dementia, her mum is ok now and is a great woman with a good heart, one brother is ok and has a girlfriend and children, he still had alcohol problems when I last heard, drinking most days etc. Another functioning alcoholic. Her oldest brother is the one who is im debt for cocaine, on it every day, 29 years old. Back living with his mother when he moved away a few years ago, had a good job, home of is own ane chucked it away to come back. He hit his mother, smashed doors at the house and hasn't been seen since apparently because he owes so much money out.

 

I understand co dependency and understand I do have some issues with it. I wouldn't say the relationship was all bad because it wasn't. But thinking back her problems where evident after the intense honeymoon period ended. Moving in almost straight away was a dumb move for a young teenager like me and her. We lived in each other's pockets from day one basically. We never really went ot for meals or stuff during our whole relationship. We did spend a lot of quality time though.

 

Her alcohol use became more prominent over the last 3/4 months together. I remember us going out for a meal and ordering a taxi home. She'd had 3 or so large glasses of wine and began crying. That was the day this downward spiral began. It was about her father and if he was going to be ok. He'd blacked out after drinking to much and she was worried so rang his home to check he was ok. He was thankfully. She cried for a long time asking me to confirm he'd be ok. I obviously said I couldn't guarantee anything and he'd made his choice and couldn't take it back but you can. Her alcohol binges became weekly (3 times a week or so) she'd drink to the point of ringing me and just rambling complete nonsense. Verbally abuse me saying she hated me and I didn't care about her and whatever other profanities she could throw at me. Or she'd ring me crying saying she's sad and doesn't no why. I'd question her as there must be a trigger, 'it just happens' 'it runs in my family'. I denied this sometimes but still tried to console her the best I could. Then suicide attempt number one, taking numerous tablets. I couldn't bring myself to go to her bedside. I was angry, confused, upset, distraught. I was being weak. A week or so later same again. This time I rushed to her bedside. She looked a mess and I couldn't believe my eyes. The girl I love doing this? No way! I was cold with her, why are you doing this etc. I stroked her hair until she fell asleep and left. Whispered I love you. She still continued drinking after this whilst taking anti depressant medication. I didn't no about the cocaine use until she told me she needed my help because she didn't no what to do. I paid the debt, begrudgingly and she seemed to think me moaning about paying it meant I was the bad guy. I had a right to be angry. I then suggested she stayed with me for the foreseeable future. She agreed and so did her mother, me and her mother always spoke about how to help her and support her. I spent those 2 weeks keeping her alcohol free, no drugs, good food, walks, making sure she got enough sleep. She hadn't slept properly in months. She had one drink on her birthday and she changed instantly. Ringing her dad, frantically searching the Internet for the number so she could tell him she attempted suicide, I tried grabbing the phone off her and she hit me twice. She then proceeded to tell me I didn't no what she'd been through or seen. I told her to talk about it, unburden herself. She'd say a few words and lock up again. I then take her away for her birthday and everything seemingly is great. We have a great weekend, minus one drinking episode, again. When I said she'd had enough as she could barely stand. She said I was trying to be the father she never had etc. I was the bad guy.

 

We return home, she makes a point of staying that night because she knew she wouldn't see me for a week due to work commitments. She left as normal. Rang me later that day as normal. Normal conversation and love yous and that was that. Then came the ignoring and ending of our relationship by text.

[Bozena]

hahaha. sorry I am laughing because you say that you got the suspicion that she has some kind of mental disorder.

Of course she has. She needs attention and she is kind of depressed. But you are not her psychiatrist. is there any counselor or someone that she can seek help? The fact that she tried to kill herself speaks itself.

The drug abuse of course is a consequence to her mental disorder. She uses everything in order to feel better.

[mbgeezle]

Plainly she does have a mental disorder but the doctors just prescribed her anti depressants. She had 1/2 counselling sessions and that was that. Britain's NHS is stressed at the moment so they'd rather palm you off with a pack of pills than put time and money into genuinely helping the girl. Not sure if she's still taking them, she started February, stopped, started again mid February but has continued drinking and sniffing cocaine whilst taking this medication. She may be off them now but is still doing this from what I've heard from a close mutual friend. Who is also concerned.

[mbgeezle]

That I will do when I'm ready. I'm trying to understand her behaviour patterns and understand why she acted the way she did and lied, used, manipulated me towards the end. I suppose it's gaining my own closure from the relationship considering she's never admitted anything or said sorry for anything. Which I find incomprehensible. I spent 6 years with her and I was by no means the model boyfriend, I've made many mistakes but I admit them and learn from them, she never did or does this. 6 years with someone and sharing every emotion and so many special moments too, it's difficult for me, no matter what she has done, to switch my love for her off. I get annoyed with myself that I still care because I no, after what's happened, I shouldn't.

 

Reading the differences on BPD/Bipolar has helped. She shows traits of both but definitely more so bpd traits. Especially the starting arguments over nothing, complete immaturity,. I'd always tell her to grow up and she'd say no I don't want too, your to old for your own good. I'm just mentally mature.

[flitzanu]

i'd focus less on wondering if she has a personality disorder and focus more on her being a cokehead and drug addict. whatever personality issues she may have are irrelevant if she's on drugs all the time.

[mbgeezle]

I wouldn't say she's on it daily. But I've been told by a close mutual friend that she 'sniffs to much' and 'can't afford to keep doing it like she does'. So this suggests to me that it's a regular occurrence. Our mutual friend says she speaks off to the shop to by alcohol when she says there not drinking etc. She should be drinking nothing and taking nothing else when recovering from her suicide attempts and major alcohol problems. She was using alcohol and cocaine as a coping mechanism. She still had these problems in March when I last saw her and our mutual friend said as little as 2 weeks ago she was doing the same. Her new man facilitates this behaviour and I made it more difficult for her to behave this way because I genuinely care about her. He obviously has no clue about her issues or if he does, he's enabling her on this downward spiral. Even if she's doing it once a week and getting drunk once a week this is once to many. I saw, heard and had to put up with the fall out of her drinking and cocaine use.

 

You can't go from having major issues with both to be able to do it recreationally. She lied about her drinking, when she was In hospital after her suicide attempt, the nurse asked her if she'd been drinking when she had taken the overdose of paracetamol, she said no, outright. I'm almost sure she had been. This was back in late January. She came to my house once stinking of wine, I suggested she'd been drinking, she said she'd had one glass of wine the night before with her mum, I didn't believe that for a second. She used to lie and say her and one other girl would drink and drink until she was a drunken rambling mess. She was obviously with a group of people she didn't want me to know about.

 

I've turned alot of what's happened inwards and I understand my faults and co dependency traits. I understand that I ended up with this girl due to my own insecurities. I was a angry, confused kid when I met her and not ready for a relationship, her the same. I've emotionally matured and realised what the issues are and put in measures to get through it. She seems to be stuck, if anything she's gone backwards. Why does someone leave someone for someone else? After everything I went through with her, i suffered just like she did, I never once thought about giving up on her, she made out to me like she wanted the help, I put up with so much emotional torment, if anything me sticking by her should of made her love me more. It should of shown my loyalty to her and how much I cared about her wellbeing. According to her I acted like the father she never had. Because I put up boundaries she didn't want to adhere to. She said all the right things but did neither. When asked how long she'd been feeling different about me she said 'a while'. How could she no what she was feeling was reality? She was a mess but didn't want to admit that either. January depression and suicide attempts, late March, dumping me for another guy, said she wanted to be alone, didn't love me anymore. As little as the 17th March we where closer than we had been in a long time. She even said we are getting on so much better and hugged me tight. I bought a ring and was going to propose. To give her that goal to look forward too. A focus. She hadn't sniffed cocaine for 2 weeks, slight slip ups with the alcohol but she said that was enough because she couldn't have a good relationship with it.

 

In hindsight I've had a huge lucky escape. But I still miss her and worry about her. Gaining clarity on her possible disorder, explains why she left so suddenly and out the blue. How she replaced one long term relationship for the next. That's not good for an emotionally stable person never mind someone with all her issues. She used me for what she could, the money, help when she wanted to be sober (so she said), her birthday weekend away, where I got her a massage in a spa, a expensive meal, 5* hotel, gifts etc. 3/4 days after its 'its over, I love you but it doesn't feel like it's enough, sorry'. By text! Then I ring her and ask her what the hell is going on, she said she wants to be alone because she never has etc. I'm not losing her and i never will, she loves me but just needs space. Then I find out from third parties about the other guy. So she must of been emotionally involved with him when I was led to believe she was, to put it plainly, a mess. How depressed could she of been if she was at the very least emotionally cheating on me? Making a decision to leave her long term partner who stuck by her through thick and thin for a guy she's known a matter of months.

[mbgeezle]

I no I have developed co dependency issues. I thought her being happy would make me happy but that simply is not the case. I'm trying to determine how she could just cut me loose for another guy just like that. Her behaviour patterns so I can understand why she did what she did. I'm sure she doesn't no why. I stayed because this girl that left me is not the girl I fell in love with. The girl that was drinking excessively and sniffing cocaine the same wasn't the girl I knew. The girl that verbally abused me and told me she hated me wasn't the girl I loved. I could go on.

[Emilia]

I no I have developed co dependency issues. I thought her being happy would make me happy but that simply is not the case. I'm trying to determine how she could just cut me loose for another guy just like that. Her behaviour patterns so I can understand why she did what she did. I'm sure she doesn't no why. I stayed because this girl that left me is not the girl I fell in love with. The girl that was drinking excessively and sniffing cocaine the same wasn't the girl I knew. The girl that verbally abused me and told me she hated me wasn't the girl I loved. I could go on.

As Mack said, you need to take the focus off her and put it on yourself. You are running away from the problem. The problem for you is your codependency, not her mental condition. That's her problem.

[mbgeezle]

I no my problem. I no it too well. And I no not to make the same mistakes again and not fall for somebody with the same issues as my ex. You are correct, her problem, is her problem. But I cannot help worrying and wondering about a girl I spent 6 years with. Regardless of anything she has done. Even if she'd just left me for someone else, I'd still be questioning as to why it could happen. I'm a problem solver. If I see a problem, I identify it and try and fix it. I understand I couldn't fix her, she is the only one who can do this. I'm incredibly downtrodden at the moment and miss the girl I thought she was. Miss the girl I loved. I accept she's not that girl anymore. But being cut out like I never existed is a bitter pill to swallow after the emotional investment I had and everything I went through over our last 4 months together.

[Emilia]

I no my problem. I no it too well. And I no not to make the same mistakes again and not fall for somebody with the same issues as my ex. You are correct, her problem, is her problem. But I cannot help worrying and wondering about a girl I spent 6 years with. Regardless of anything she has done. Even if she'd just left me for someone else, I'd still be questioning as to why it could happen. I'm a problem solver. If I see a problem, I identify it and try and fix it. I understand I couldn't fix her, she is the only one who can do this. I'm incredibly downtrodden at the moment and miss the girl I thought she was. Miss the girl I loved. I accept she's not that girl anymore. But being cut out like I never existed is a bitter pill to swallow after the emotional investment I had and everything I went through over our last 4 months together.

But you are missing and worrying over someone who is very capable of looking after herself by the looks of it

[mbgeezle]

That is the problem. She thinks she is but isn't. She's capable of having someone else there to validate her and look after her. Basically enable her In her lifestyle now not make her face up to the issues she has. They don't disappear in a few months. They've been there for years. I worry if she has arguments with this guy, they split up or whatever. She'll try kill herself, binge drink and drug use, get hit by s car she's that drunk, get into a situation she can't get out of. If I hear this, it would kill me.

[Emilia]

That is the problem. She thinks she is but isn't. She's capable of having someone else there to validate her and look after her. Basically enable her In her lifestyle now not make her face up to the issues she has. They don't disappear in a few months. They've been there for years. I worry if she has arguments with this guy, they split up or whatever. She'll try kill herself, binge drink and drug use, get hit by s car she's that drunk, get into a situation she can't get out of. If I hear this, it would kill me.

Yes she is. Stop trying to control her. She is an adult. She has the right to make choices.

[mbgeezle]

Im not controlling anything. I have never tried controlling her. If she was left alone, no man. She'd be hopeless. She would have no purpose and no one to control herself. I no the girl inside out. I don't want to control her, I want to understand how she can do what she has done without a shed of remorse. Its not what emotionally well people do. I have no say in her life now at all, I have no input. Which is good for me and her. Have you ever been left for someone else? Who'd tried killing herself 2 months previously, who verbally and emotionally abused you for months, who you saw dying in a hospital bed, who you put your heart and soul into helping, who you loved unconditionally and would of done anything for. Who you stuck by no matter what. Because she told me all the right things but did none of them. I'm broken because I loved her so much it hurts. She let me believe I was doing everything right. Then it's snatched away completely out of the blue.

[mbgeezle]

When you say this girl is having sex with a new girl every night you are referring to your ex? I can resolve my flaws by working on myself mentally and emotionally. I'm not stupid and no what part I've played. I no my flaws and I no the steps I need to take to resolve them. I need to detach from this girl completely and stop worrying about what she's doing or what may go wrong in her life. That I do no. But understanding her behaviour, is down to a mental disorder will help me gain closure and help me realise that the person that chucked me for someone else after I was nothing but loyal to her and stuck by her through her darkest time in her life, isn't the girl she now is. it's been 4 months, she left me for him, moved him in almost straight away, continued drinking, cocaine use. When the last time I saw her she was sober, not touched cocaine for 2 weeks. I no I must cut her out my life. Cutting her out my head and heart is going to take many years. I don't have money for therapy. This is going to be have to be done on my own.

[Emilia]

Im not controlling anything. I have never tried controlling her. If she was left alone, no man. She'd be hopeless. She would have no purpose and no one to control herself. I no the girl inside out. I don't want to control her, I want to understand how she can do what she has done without a shed of remorse. Its not what emotionally well people do. I have no say in her life now at all, I have no input. Which is good for me and her. Have you ever been left for someone else? Who'd tried killing herself 2 months previously, who verbally and emotionally abused you for months, who you saw dying in a hospital bed, who you put your heart and soul into helping, who you loved unconditionally and would of done anything for. Who you stuck by no matter what. Because she told me all the right things but did none of them. I'm broken because I loved her so much it hurts. She let me believe I was doing everything right. Then it's snatched away completely out of the blue.

You were attempting to control her. You can deny it all you want but all this codependent stuff is about control. It doesn't matter what you think she should be doing, it's not your job to tell her how to lead her life. You might think you know better but she is an adult. She has survived for this long, she will carry on.

 

All this unconditional stuff is about control. If you feel she abused you, you need to get therapy on why you have tolerated it for so long.

 

This is codependency at its finest Codependency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[mbgeezle]

Oh I no that lol. This doesn't bother me at all. Her being with him doesn't bother me. I don't want her back. I just want the girl to be emotionally well. But I realise she can only want that. She needs to do this on her own. She's jumped from one relationship to the next, without any downtime to work on herself. People who are emotionally healthy need to do this after a break up. Never mind people who have been through what she has. I fear for her and I no I shouldn't. I should cut all ties in my head and heart this minute. I've come so far from the heartbreak I experienced in the first month. I couldn't eat, sleep, barely talk. I didn't recognise myself. I feel so much better but still miss her and what we had. And hearing things about her and the downward spiral she still continues to be on hurts. I'll make sure now people know to mention nothing about her. Its the only way I'll continue moving forward.

[Emilia]

Oh I no that lol. This doesn't bother me at all. Her being with him doesn't bother me. I don't want her back. I just want the girl to be emotionally well. But I realise she can only want that. She needs to do this on her own. She's jumped from one relationship to the next, without any downtime to work on herself. People who are emotionally healthy need to do this after a break up. Never mind people who have been through what she has. I fear for her and I no I shouldn't. I should cut all ties in my head and heart this minute. I've come so far from the heartbreak I experienced in the first month. I couldn't eat, sleep, barely talk. I didn't recognise myself. I feel so much better but still miss her and what we had. And hearing things about her and the downward spiral she still continues to be on hurts. I'll make sure now people know to mention nothing about her. Its the only way I'll continue moving forward.

Good to hear it, stay strong.

[mbgeezle]

You are so far off the mark its insulting. Control is something I do not want over her or her life. She is an adult, who has made poor choice after poor choice. Yes there her choices and her decisions to make as she is an adult and I can't prevent or stop her from making these poor decisions. What you are implying to me is that you think she is emotionally well and stable and has made the correct choice and the way she has treated me is some way normal. I won't be made out to be some sort of control freak. I'm a caring human being who loved a girl I spent 6 years with and wanted to help though her toughest time because she asked for my help. I came here for support not to be ridiculed. I no I have my own co dependency issues. I see that. But controlling wasn't part of that. HELPING and SUPPORTING the girl I love was.

[Emilia]

You are so far off the mark its insulting. Control is something I do not want over her or her life.

I'm sorry if the truth is insulting but it is still the truth. Codependency is about control. It's about making someone else lead the life you think they should be leading.

She is an adult, who has made poor choice after poor choice. Yes there her choices and her decisions to make as she is an adult and I can't prevent or stop her from making these poor decisions.

Nor should you try

What you are implying to me is that you think she is emotionally well and stable and has made the correct choice and the way she has treated me is some way normal.

No it isn't normal and I am very sorry that you cannot afford a therapist as Mack says.

I won't be made out to be some sort of control freak. I'm a caring human being who loved a girl I spent 6 years with and wanted to help though her toughest time because she asked for my help. I came here for support not to be ridiculed. I no I have my own co dependency issues. I see that. But controlling wasn't part of that. HELPING and SUPPORTING the girl I love was.

You are not ridiculed. You have codependency issues. Controlling is ALWAYS part of codependency. It's the basic definition of it.

 

The worst thing you can do is deny your own motives in this. Codependents control others because they want to distract from their own issues. Please read up on it. We all have to deal with this and I sympathise.

[mbgeezle]

Not the life I wanted her to lead, the life she lead me to believe she wanted to live up until the moment she left. I don't believe I failed at all either. I gave my all and couldn't give anymore so I failed in nothing. I did all I could and thats that. Also I don't want her to be eternally grateful. She has never been grateful for anything I did and nothing I did was ever good enough so I don't expect she would be grateful for anything. When you spend 6 years with someone and love her so much, and then you see her systematically destroy herself before your eyes and im wrong for worrying.

[Dundas]

You aren't wrong for worrying about her, but I guarantee she isn't concerned for you. It seems like she put you through a lot, and you'll be much happier in the long run if you just cut her out of your life completely. She'll always run across your mind, that's normal. I wouldn't wait around for her either. You helped her through a lot and now she's chosen to leave you in the worst way possible. She has no respect for you and she should have to focus on her own problems now. If she ever does try to come back, you should walk away. If it's closure you need, you will probably have to wait much longer, since she's not willing to talk right now - one day, she might, though. In the mean time, get your life back in order and look for somebody more mentally... there. My ex of 2.5 years left me for another guy too, and it took me about 3 months until she felt comfortable talking to me and gave me some good closure. But we work together so I was lucky enough to have that chance. Our relationship was much different than yours though and I still think highly of her as a person. She didn't exactly apologize, but she admitted she did me wrong which is close enough for me, anyway. Just let go and move on, you'll get over it in less time than you think.

[Downtown]

Controlling is ALWAYS part of codependency. It's the basic definition of it.

Emilia, the problem is that there is no "basic definition" accepted by the psychiatric community. Instead, there are many factions having differing views about it. Indeed, there is no agreement that codependency even constitutes a disorder or dysfunctional behavior. That's why it is not defined in the APA's Diagnostic Manual -- and is not even mentioned.

 

Significantly, the world's largest association devoted to codependency -- i.e., CoDA (Codependents Anonymous) could not even reach agreement among its members on how to define it. That's why CoDA provides no definition of it at their website. Instead, they simply provide a grocery list of over 50 traits that includes everything but the kitchen sink.

 

Granted, you can find a "definition" of it at the Wikipedia article you cite, which restates the same medical definition given by the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. That defintion, however, does not support your interpretation (that codependents control OTHERS). Rather, Merriam-Webster says that codependents rely on others to control THEM. Specifically, it defines codependency to be:

a psychological condition or a relationship in which

a person is controlled or manipulated by another

who is affected with a pathological condition (as an addiction to alcohol or heroin);

broadly

:

dependence on the needs of or control by another

Codependents control others because they want to distract from their own issues.

Certainly, you would find support from a lot of folks who define codependency exactly that way. Similarly, you will find lots of support for many other definitions, including that offered by Merriam-Webster. My experience, however, is that most folks who have lived with a BPDer for 15 years like me -- and for 6 years as MB may have done -- are not controlling people. Rather, they are excessive caregivers who keep helping others even when it is to their great disadvantage to do so.

 

I therefore like Kathy Batesel's simple definition, which states that codependency occurs when one's own happiness is overly dependent on the happiness of another. Similarly, I like Shari Schreiber's definition of it occurring when a person's desire to be needed (for what he can do) far exceeds his desire to be loved (for the person he already is).

 

But, of course, I recognize that this definition is not any more "correct" than the one you use. I use it only because I believe it more accurately describes the partners who become trapped in toxic relationships with BPDers. Yet, because of the contentiousness associated with the term, I generally try to avoid the controversy by instead using the term, "excessive caregiver."

[Downtown]

Control is something I do not want over her or her life. ...I won't be made out to be some sort of control freak.

MB, I agree with you that your descriptions of your relationship do not indicate you were controlling. Rather, it was your exGF who tried to be controlling (most likely due to her fears of abandonment and engulfment).

I'm a caring human being who loved a girl I spent 6 years with and wanted to help though her toughest time because she asked for my help.

I agree. Similarly, I spent 12 years taking my bipolar-1 foster son to psychologists. And I spent another 15 years taking my BPDer exW to six different psychologists and several MCs. As with you, this was not done to "control" their lives and dictate their actions but, rather, to give them both the very best opportunity to heal themselves.

[amaysngrace]

I didn't read anything but if she's all those things you should be really glad she is someone else's problem now.

 

Go enjoy yourself!!