Friendship Possible without a Dday

[zevahc]

I know it's been discussed in a variety of different ways or popped up in threads. But I'm curious if anyone thinks regaining a SAFE friendship is possible down the road when there was no dday. In my case, we ended the PA months ago, and have gone through periods of declining LC...(failed attempts at NC). I'm getting ready to try full NC because it is eating me alive. I don't want to be just friends right now.

 

The thing is.. (and I get it may be part of the fog), the friendship is a good one. And I wished we could go back to where there were no boundaries crossed. I think that if I can shut down my romantic feelings for her...and perhaps if I'm in love with another, we would be great friends. I've never been a cheater and I'm a one woman type of guy. But I just think it sucks we ruined an amazing friendship.

 

The other side of me says that the connection I had with her will always be dynamite..regardless of the fact that we ended before dday...and that even if I was with someone...unless I had the same connection (or greater), I would be in trouble...so I'm curious if anyone has pulled this off...again, right now I think we ended things at the right time...before and dday, before it got worse. She's now in MC for several months...and I'm tryiing my best to move on...to the point that I will tell her that NO, right now we can't even be friends..or at least we cannot have any contact. I'll always consider her a friend..even if I don't speak to her.

 

Those of you who wish to throw negativity or judgement at this...go for it...(you know who you are...). My intent is this question is not to say it is or isn't practical or possible...but rather to get some commentary and food for thought...I'm trying to be extremely prayerful...and with what is left..intelligent and cautious about my steps forward. I've been facing a lot lately...even outside of the A...and I'm coping best I can.

 

Appreciate any replies.

[Cocochai]

I think if your still involved you'll never fully find that special someone. You are still trying to hold on.

[zevahc]

I think if your still involved you'll never fully find that special someone. You are still trying to hold on.

 

I can agree...I'm asking if down the road...be it a year...or 5 years if it would be normal...or would it always be fatal to future relationship.

 

Both replies kind of missed the point of the question. I'm suggesting that I know I asked this while my head is still cloudy. And I'm quite positive that if I'm happy, healthy and in another place I probably won't care...or maybe I will have found someone else that is a "better" friend.

 

The point is...the friendship was a good one prior to indescretions....she means a lot to me...always will.

[zevahc]

Reading your history... if your friends treat you the way this girl does, do you really need enemies?

 

I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to...and yes, there have been some ups and downs since we decided to end things...prior to that it wasn't as up and down..and hurtful.

 

But anyone on this board should know that nobody is innocent when emotions starting going south. My AP was and is a selfish person...no doubt...doesn't change that I care for her and saw her faults and her good sides.

 

To answer your question, I could walk out the door and find plenty of people to treat me worse...and hopefully a few that would treat me better.

[psm04]

I know it's been discussed in a variety of different ways or popped up in threads. But I'm curious if anyone thinks regaining a SAFE friendship is possible down the road when there was no dday. In my case, we ended the PA months ago, and have gone through periods of declining LC...(failed attempts at NC). I'm getting ready to try full NC because it is eating me alive. I don't want to be just friends right now.

 

The thing is.. (and I get it may be part of the fog), the friendship is a good one. And I wished we could go back to where there were no boundaries crossed. I think that if I can shut down my romantic feelings for her...and perhaps if I'm in love with another, we would be great friends. I've never been a cheater and I'm a one woman type of guy. But I just think it sucks we ruined an amazing friendship.

 

The other side of me says that the connection I had with her will always be dynamite..regardless of the fact that we ended before dday...and that even if I was with someone...unless I had the same connection (or greater), I would be in trouble...so I'm curious if anyone has pulled this off...again, right now I think we ended things at the right time...before and dday, before it got worse. She's now in MC for several months...and I'm tryiing my best to move on...to the point that I will tell her that NO, right now we can't even be friends..or at least we cannot have any contact. I'll always consider her a friend..even if I don't speak to her.

 

Those of you who wish to throw negativity or judgement at this...go for it...(you know who you are...). My intent is this question is not to say it is or isn't practical or possible...but rather to get some commentary and food for thought...I'm trying to be extremely prayerful...and with what is left..intelligent and cautious about my steps forward. I've been facing a lot lately...even outside of the A...and I'm coping best I can.

 

Appreciate any replies.

 

Hey, I'm actually going through a similar thing right now with my OMM (not sure whether I should call him xOMM, since I'm still in contact with him). Anyway, we have tried full NC before, and it just didn't work and made everything worse, because like you said, the friendship was good and we missed that. We went back to talking, got back into the A, which was several times more intense than before, and now, we are back to being 'just friends' again (which means friendship and an EA, since you just can't kill the feelings like that). It's funny, because we both still love and are in love with each other, or that's what we tell each other, and that's just not going to go away. It probably won't go away for you as well. You'll always have that chemistry and the temptation, but the key is to not fall into the temptation. Now, granted that I've only been doing this for one week, and the previous times we attempted to be just friends failed, I can't say that this is going to be successful, but most of it is your willpower, even if the other person doesn't have it. You have to have the will power for both of you, if you truly don't want to get back into the affair. I don't want to. It was torture.

 

I also wish that I could go back to when no boundaries were crossed. We'd just be secretly in love with each other, but be able to sustain a friendship. But, there's no point in talking about the past. It happened. I don't think that you'll fall out of love with her by staying friends though. Also, will you be ok with her doing things with her husband etc? My OMM and I still have insecurities about each other's spouses. That won't go away for a while either. But for us, not talking at all was worse.

 

You seem to really be heartbroken over this. I feel for you :-( Maybe, once you go full NC, like you are thinking of, it'll help you figure out whether you really do miss the friendship, and whether the friendship was part of the fog or not.

[zevahc]

Hey, I'm actually going through a similar thing right now with my OMM (not sure whether I should call him xOMM, since I'm still in contact with him). Anyway, we have tried full NC before, and it just didn't work and made everything worse, because like you said, the friendship was good and we missed that. We went back to talking, got back into the A, which was several times more intense than before, and now, we are back to being 'just friends' again (which means friendship and an EA, since you just can't kill the feelings like that). It's funny, because we both still love and are in love with each other, or that's what we tell each other, and that's just not going to go away. It probably won't go away for you as well. You'll always have that chemistry and the temptation, but the key is to not fall into the temptation. Now, granted that I've only been doing this for one week, and the previous times we attempted to be just friends failed, I can't say that this is going to be successful, but most of it is your willpower, even if the other person doesn't have it. You have to have the will power for both of you, if you truly don't want to get back into the affair. I don't want to. It was torture.

 

I also wish that I could go back to when no boundaries were crossed. We'd just be secretly in love with each other, but be able to sustain a friendship. But, there's no point in talking about the past. It happened. I don't think that you'll fall out of love with her by staying friends though. Also, will you be ok with her doing things with her husband etc? My OMM and I still have insecurities about each other's spouses. That won't go away for a while either. But for us, not talking at all was worse.

 

You seem to really be heartbroken over this. I feel for you :-( Maybe, once you go full NC, like you are thinking of, it'll help you figure out whether you really do miss the friendship, and whether the friendship was part of the fog or not.

 

PSM...i appreciate your response, but I think even you may be missing what I asked...or I worded it badly.

 

I have no doubt of our connection. I have no doubt I need NC. I cannot continue the friendship in it's current situation...even with a PA. The EA is wrong too because it's too intense..and I want more than a friendship.

 

My real question...is after a year or whatever...5 years...whatever it takes for me to get healthy...be it finding another person, or being in a good place. Could or should a friendship exist. It was amazing, and I believe it would be if we didn't have the other feelings. I don't see myself able to supress those unless I find someone who I truly feel like making my W in the future. If I do...then I wonder if I can see this person as a great friend again.

[psm04]

PSM...i appreciate your response, but I think even you may be missing what I asked...or I worded it badly.

 

I have no doubt of our connection. I have no doubt I need NC. I cannot continue the friendship in it's current situation...even with a PA. The EA is wrong too because it's too intense..and I want more than a friendship.

 

My real question...is after a year or whatever...5 years...whatever it takes for me to get healthy...be it finding another person, or being in a good place. Could or should a friendship exist. It was amazing, and I believe it would be if we didn't have the other feelings. I don't see myself able to supress those unless I find someone who I truly feel like making my W in the future. If I do...then I wonder if I can see this person as a great friend again.

 

Oh, I'm sorry!! I understand now. Ok, well, I think only time will tell. One of my best friends is an ex of mine who I was madly in love with, and never thought I'd get over, but I did, and there is absolutely nothing romantic between us anymore. We love each other as friends, and that's it. Completely platonic. So yes, it might be possible, but if she still has feelings for you, I guess it won't be. Who knows, maybe once you find that person who is fully available to you, you might not feel the need to create a friendship with this woman, you know?

 

Hope I didn't misunderstand this time :-)

[zevahc]

Oh, I'm sorry!! I understand now. Ok, well, I think only time will tell. One of my best friends is an ex of mine who I was madly in love with, and never thought I'd get over, but I did, and there is absolutely nothing romantic between us anymore. We love each other as friends, and that's it. Completely platonic. So yes, it might be possible, but if she still has feelings for you, I guess it won't be. Who knows, maybe once you find that person who is fully available to you, you might not feel the need to create a friendship with this woman, you know?

 

Hope I didn't misunderstand this time :-)

 

That's kinda what I'm thinking...that I probably won't care if I find that special person. But I guess I think it's a shame...she was good for my daughter (whose mom hasn't really been in the picture), and she was a great friend to me before we complicated things.

 

I guess those are my big regrets and I think about it...but yeah, I agree with what you wrote...

 

This honestly has been harder than my divorce when I was a BS....i'll get there...it's definitely a process.

[MissBee]

I can agree...I'm asking if down the road...be it a year...or 5 years if it would be normal...or would it always be fatal to future relationship.

 

Both replies kind of missed the point of the question. I'm suggesting that I know I asked this while my head is still cloudy. And I'm quite positive that if I'm happy, healthy and in another place I probably won't care...or maybe I will have found someone else that is a "better" friend.

 

The point is...the friendship was a good one prior to indescretions....she means a lot to me...always will.

 

 

No it's not normal for people to be "friends" with their affair partners post-A. A regular ex, maybe, and even that isn't that common, as most people when they truly move on, it's just natural that they grow apart from their ex, even though they couldn't imagine not being friends prior.

 

If she is genuinely working on her marriage and if part of that is admitting she had an A with you...I do not see how it would be possible for you guys to still be friends and have it be A-ok with her husband. I also don't know how your future significant others will take it if you tell them the married woman you used to be in an affair with is now your "friend."

 

Time changes your perspective, as you've pointed out. Almost everyone wants to "stay friends" and usually most don't, but the good thing is, usually it's only during the beginning phase of healing that the friends thing is sooo important, as time passes, you stop caring about being friends or realize how impossible it is and you let it go.

Edited July 28, 2013 by MissBee

[zevahc]

No it's not normal for people to be "friends" with their affair partners post-A. A regular ex, maybe, and even that isn't that common, as most people when they truly move on, it's just natural that they grow apart from their ex, even though they couldn't imagine not being friends prior.

 

If she is genuinely working on her marriage and if part of that is admitting she had an A with you...I do not see how it would be possible for you guys to still be friends and have it be A-ok with her husband. I also don't know how your future significant others will take it if you tell them the married woman you used to be with is now your "friend."

 

Time changes your perspective, as you've pointed out. Almost everyone wants to "stay friends" and usually most don't, but the good thing is, usually it's only during the beginning phase of healing that the friends thing is sooo important, as time passes, you stop caring about being friends or realize how impossible it is and you let it go.

 

Thanks MissBee...I do imagine your assessment will be correct. And it will become less of a thought...and more of an afterthought.

 

She has no plans to bring up the A in her MC. She says it has nothing to do with what brought them to the MC...and really they are working on fixing the issues that brought her into the A...I think she will struggle with it (if she doesn't disclose it to him)..she already has...but that's not my call.

 

I hate to say it..but I don't plan on telling a girl I date or marry about the A I've been in..it certainly isn't who I am, nor does it define me in the future....it has jacked with me in many ways...but I don't think it needs to be a part of my future. Am I wrong in this thinking?

[MissBee]

Thanks MissBee...I do imagine your assessment will be correct. And it will become less of a thought...and more of an afterthought.

 

She has no plans to bring up the A in her MC. She says it has nothing to do with what brought them to the MC...and really they are working on fixing the issues that brought her into the A...I think she will struggle with it (if she doesn't disclose it to him)..she already has...but that's not my call.

 

I hate to say it..but I don't plan on telling a girl I date or marry about the A I've been in..it certainly isn't who I am, nor does it define me in the future....it has jacked with me in many ways...but I don't think it needs to be a part of my future. Am I wrong in this thinking?

 

I would be honest about it personally, as indeed, if it isn't who I am anymore, but I did it, why hide it? I have told men I've dated about it and none have rejected me because of it, as it is very apparent that it was something I did in the past and learned from. So just based on my own relationship style, where I'm very transparent, it would come up. That is a big thing in my mind, and when I date guys, we talk about our past relationship successes/failures/what we learned, it helps me understand a lot about a man and him me, so I cannot imagine just omitting that. I would feel disingenuous doing so.

 

However, if she plans to not tell her husband, and you not tell your future gfs, but also try to be friends...it makes you two seem like you're doing something clandestine, especially if it did come to light later on. The short of it is though, I truly think this is only important to you now because it is all fresh, so some of the logic isn't quite right, which is normal...but in a few months/years, this will not at all be of interest to you and you may even find it ridiculous to have wanted to remain friends.

[RickFox]

I don't believe it's practical nor attainable with this woman. It doesn't master how many years pass those feelings will be there but just lying dormant. Should you attempt to reconnect as just friends you well find yourself right back to wanting her....wanting more. Once the line was crossed everything was ruined

[zevahc]

I don't believe it's practical nor attainable with this woman. It doesn't master how many years pass those feelings will be there but just lying dormant. Should you attempt to reconnect as just friends you well find yourself right back to wanting her....wanting more. Once the line was crossed everything was ruined

 

Thanks Rick. You're probably right...only time will tell.

[JR819]

Im in the same situation as you and im having a hard time with it as well. the only thing i can think of was to starting dating again. but my situation is worst because we work together, so i see her everyday...

[Lostinlife4now]

I know it's been discussed in a variety of different ways or popped up in threads. But I'm curious if anyone thinks regaining a SAFE friendship is possible down the road when there was no dday. In my case, we ended the PA months ago, and have gone through periods of declining LC...(failed attempts at NC). I'm getting ready to try full NC because it is eating me alive. I don't want to be just friends right now.

 

The thing is.. (and I get it may be part of the fog), the friendship is a good one. And I wished we could go back to where there were no boundaries crossed. I think that if I can shut down my romantic feelings for her...and perhaps if I'm in love with another, we would be great friends. I've never been a cheater and I'm a one woman type of guy. But I just think it sucks we ruined an amazing friendship.

 

The other side of me says that the connection I had with her will always be dynamite..regardless of the fact that we ended before dday...and that even if I was with someone...unless I had the same connection (or greater), I would be in trouble...so I'm curious if anyone has pulled this off...again, right now I think we ended things at the right time...before and dday, before it got worse. She's now in MC for several months...and I'm tryiing my best to move on...to the point that I will tell her that NO, right now we can't even be friends..or at least we cannot have any contact. I'll always consider her a friend..even if I don't speak to her.

 

Those of you who wish to throw negativity or judgement at this...go for it...(you know who you are...). My intent is this question is not to say it is or isn't practical or possible...but rather to get some commentary and food for thought...I'm trying to be extremely prayerful...and with what is left..intelligent and cautious about my steps forward. I've been facing a lot lately...even outside of the A...and I'm coping best I can.

 

Appreciate any replies.

 

 

Hi Z.....

 

Yes, xmm and I tried a friendship for a couple of years, but it was really weird to say the least. We went LC to NC for 3 or 4 months, then a phone call just to see if each other were alive, small talk. No it's really not the same anymore.

 

Now I tell him about my boyfriend (imaginary) and all he's got is work, kids, and I ALWAYS ask him how is wife is doing!! Pretty boring if you ask me...It just seems to fade away, the friendship that is! Oh and to throw in, I don't have an ounce of respect for him, so that also helps!!!

[zevahc]

Im in the same situation as you and im having a hard time with it as well. the only thing i can think of was to starting dating again. but my situation is worst because we work together, so i see her everyday...

 

I work with her too

[It-is-what-it-is.]

There have been some other threads with favors of this topic.

 

I think you asked if it is possible, some time down the road. Assuming down the road does not include a dd or disclosure because that would likely limit your options.

 

Yes, you can become friendly, but you won't want to.

 

The intimacy you shared and the secrets would come between you and any future relationship if you maintain contact. You don't want the new love to know that you were in love and had affair with the AP, she doesnt want her husband to know. It is like continuing the affair.

 

So it sounds like a good idea now, but if you try to find a successful monogamous relationship you need to be free of that kind of situation.

[zevahc]

There have been some other threads with favors of this topic.

 

I think you asked if it is possible, some time down the road. Assuming down the road does not include a dd or disclosure because that would likely limit your options.

 

Yes, you can become friendly, but you won't want to.

 

The intimacy you shared and the secrets would come between you and any future relationship if you maintain contact. You don't want the new love to know that you were in love and had affair with the AP, she doesnt want her husband to know. It is like continuing the affair.

 

So it sounds like a good idea now, but if you try to find a successful monogamous relationship you need to be free of that kind of situation.

 

I am almost certain most of the posts are right. It's hard for me to accept right now, but I'm sure the future will show different.

 

Past 2 days I've been insanely depressed. My daughter leaves this week to try a new adventure. I've raised her since she was a year old. She will try life at moms. It's all been so much to deal with. That, along with trying to drop xMW from my life even as a friend because I can't stop my feelings for her.

 

I posted because I needed to vent and needed a place to write. My future feels so rocky. I pray pray pray, and cry out for relief. This has been one of the hardest years of my life. Nothing right now feels right or good.

[zevahc]

Im in the same situation as you and im having a hard time with it as well. the only thing i can think of was to starting dating again. but my situation is worst because we work together, so i see her everyday...

 

What is your story. PM if you like...I noticed you joined in 2008 but have only posted once.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I am almost certain most of the posts are right. It's hard for me to accept right now, but I'm sure the future will show different.

 

Past 2 days I've been insanely depressed. My daughter leaves this week to try a new adventure. I've raised her since she was a year old. She will try life at moms. It's all been so much to deal with. That, along with trying to drop xMW from my life even as a friend because I can't stop my feelings for her.

 

I posted because I needed to vent and needed a place to write. My future feels so rocky. I pray pray pray, and cry out for relief. This has been one of the hardest years of my life. Nothing right now feels right or good.

 

Being a parent is so hard! Giving them what they need even when it is scary or painful? Remember she is still your child, just living somewhere else. It's scary for her too.

 

As for your affair and the MW, you need to do things to be healthy, mentally and physically. Get a new job, exercise, meet new people, go to church. You need to start new things with new people. Put one foot in front of the other.

 

Have you see a therapist? Or your internist? You have had a lot of emotional things going on you might find AD helpful.

[zevahc]

Being a parent is so hard! Giving them what they need even when it is scary or painful? Remember she is still your child, just living somewhere else. It's scary for her too.

 

As for your affair and the MW, you need to do things to be healthy, mentally and physically. Get a new job, exercise, meet new people, go to church. You need to start new things with new people. Put one foot in front of the other.

 

Have you see a therapist? Or your internist? You have had a lot of emotional things going on you might find AD helpful.

 

I have been going to IC since April. It has been so so...i've found a few other outlets more useful. My biggest issue has been getting to consistent NC...because we work together...and she has a relationship with my kid that I was trying to allow to be normal until my kid moved away. It's been good for my kid...rough for me.

 

I've definitely thought about AD. My IC only catches me on my good days...and doesn't want me to do it...she says I won't deal with my issues then...just mask them.

 

I do go to church...no single people my age.. Plan on changing once my daughter is gone. doing every possible thing I can think of right now...but have been extremely depressed with this happening...and the loss of my best friend at the same time.....whom I really needed to get through this other stuff...just not good timing. She's tried to be there at arms length...but we all know how different that is from where we've been past 2 years.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I have been going to IC since April. It has been so so...i've found a few other outlets more useful. My biggest issue has been getting to consistent NC...because we work together...and she has a relationship with my kid that I was trying to allow to be normal until my kid moved away. It's been good for my kid...rough for me.

 

I've definitely thought about AD. My IC only catches me on my good days...and doesn't want me to do it...she says I won't deal with my issues then...just mask them.

 

I do go to church...no single people my age.. Plan on changing once my daughter is gone. doing every possible thing I can think of right now...but have been extremely depressed with this happening...and the loss of my best friend at the same time.....whom I really needed to get through this other stuff...just not good timing. She's tried to be there at arms length...but we all know how different that is from where we've been past 2 years.

 

Well, I question the continued contact with your child. Not good for anyone and keeps the wounds open for everyone....you will have to end it sometime you do not want to have her ask to see her when she is visiting.

 

I believe in antidepressants, I know many don't and your therapist is officially a nut ball for suggesting it masks anything. Goodness sakes, we don't tell diabetics not to take insulin because it masks diabetes.....(pet peeve) call your internist, tell him/her the truth (affair, kid issues) and tell them to give you something, unless you have a condition that is contraindicated. Sorry, should be a topic for another thread.

 

One thing about your best friend statement. This is nothing personal about her, frankly I would give her the same advice about you if she were on here.

 

You are not friends. You are not healthy for each other. Like sugar for the diabetic you can't continue to have it and expect to get better. I know you used to be friends, but you crossed the line and there is no going back. Not really...maybe never, but certainly not for a long time.

 

Having any contact at all keeps you anticipating, wishing for contact, hoping for no contact, being angry if there is none, being sad if there is.. Rinse and repeat. It's crazy making and you must stop it.

 

You should look for another job too.

 

And while you are at it find another counselor....you should be getting something out of it.

[zevahc]

Well, I question the continued contact with your child. Not good for anyone and keeps the wounds open for everyone....you will have to end it sometime you do not want to have her ask to see her when she is visiting.

 

I believe in antidepressants, I know many don't and your therapist is officially a nut ball for suggesting it masks anything. Goodness sakes, we don't tell diabetics not to take insulin because it masks diabetes.....(pet peeve) call your internist, tell him/her the truth (affair, kid issues) and tell them to give you something, unless you have a condition that is contraindicated. Sorry, should be a topic for another thread.

 

One thing about your best friend statement. This is nothing personal about her, frankly I would give her the same advice about you if she were on here.

 

You are not friends. You are not healthy for each other. Like sugar for the diabetic you can't continue to have it and expect to get better. I know you used to be friends, but you crossed the line and there is no going back. Not really...maybe never, but certainly not for a long time.

 

Having any contact at all keeps you anticipating, wishing for contact, hoping for no contact, being angry if there is none, being sad if there is.. Rinse and repeat. It's crazy making and you must stop it.

 

You should look for another job too.

 

And while you are at it find another counselor....you should be getting something out of it.

 

I think this is all good advice...and each component is something I'm considering. I had to find a new internist because mine shut down his practice awhile back. I have an appointment with new one in 2 weeks. I will discuss these issues.

 

I'm thinking of new counselor, but the one I found was my second. First one didn't think I needed further sessions. Problem is, I often catch them on a good day. Go figure.

 

The relationship/friendship with my daughter was a choice I made back when we we began to shut things down 2.5-3 months ago...though I started trying in January...and realistically last year. They had things scheduled and I did not want to make issue or break those things with my daughter....because there were aspects that were good for her...(aside from our A). It won't matter now with her leaving..which is why I allowed it to go on for a few more months. It was a decision...right or wrong that I chose.

 

I don't agree we aren't friends...but I do agree we are no longer healthy for each other. We can't be right now...but she was my best friend...and now I'm without one....that's it...that simple.

 

Thank you for your note...It-is...

[zevahc]

You should look for another job too.

 

And I've thought about this too...been waiting b/c I've got a great one...and as a single parent they work with me incredibly well as a single parent...something I can't guarantee will happen elsewhere. I wish it were that simple.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I hope you can find some parenting group or meetup or something that can help you get to know people outside of work. Separating those parts of your life might be good. Since the job change is unlikely, are you trying to avoid contact at work? You really are going to feel better if you aren't interacting all the time (and so will she)

 

I am sorry you feel so alone now, and obviously an anonymous forum doesn't really make that better.

 

We can agree to disagree on the friends thing, and soon, when you feel a lot stronger we can start a nice thread with quotes and analogies and smart mouth comments. Let me know when you are up for it.

 

So I will pray for you too--for peace and healing of your mind and heart. For you to be able to forgive yourself and allow your life to become filled with people who can love and support you.

 

Take care.