This is why I will never understand the female gender.. :-\

[Pompeii]

If you think not engaging in violent activity to resolve my issues is somehow me being a pussy, I think this speaks volumes as to why you've always had an issue with women and why they won't give you the time of day.

 

I never said violent activity. I said physical. Fighting is one expression of that physical activity. In some cases, talking is not enough to avoid a confrontation and fists must be used instead. You can't weasel your way out of every situation. The ones that do advocate "diplomacy", "civilized behavior", or whatever other politically-correct synonym are the ones who have the most to gain from society turning softer. They wouldn't last a minute in a physical altercation.

 

Again, if you're too much of a pussy to go to the gym or play a pickup game of whatever sport, then that's your problem.

[letsbeotherpeople]

I never said violent activity. I said physical. Fighting is one expression of that physical activity. In some cases, talking is not enough to avoid a confrontation and fists must be used instead. You can't weasel your way out of every situation. The ones that do advocate "diplomacy", "civilized behavior", or whatever other politically-correct synonym are the ones who have the most to gain from society turning softer. They wouldn't last a minute in a physical altercation.

Oh what crap.

 

If you measure the mark of a man and the society that he lives in as his ability to win a fight, you're doing little more than engaging in a juvenile dick waving contest.

 

Society doesn't turn soft by its ability to avoid altercation, it improves.

 

And do not, for one minute, make the mistake of thinking that a person that would avoid physical confrontation has an inability to conduct themselves well in it.

 

Again, if you're too much of a pussy to go to the gym or play a pickup game of whatever sport, then that's your problem.

And again, if the measure of a man is wholly based in the amount of physical activity he undertakes, then you have a very limited understanding as to what the word masculine means.

Being physical is one aspect, there are many more.

 

And if that comment is directed specifically at me, I'll add that you know exactly nothing about me. You have no idea how much physical activity I partake in. You know nothing about me, so I'll thankyou to stop making judgements on subject you know exactly jack all about.

[dasein]

Wearing makeup is the same as manipulating people? I don't think so! What a ridiculous load of crap.

 

1. Seduction is not "manipulating people," unless one's perception of women is as little babies, not adults, who can't think for themselves and choose what they respond to. Is that your perception? It's not mine.

 

2. Of course any degree of female enhancement, gigantic chicken cutlets, red lipstick, thick foundation, fragrance and shiny accoutrement is "just fine" because women do it. That about the size of it? Played out. Seduction skills are no different than makeup. People like interesting people, men often hae a narrow window to build on attraction, and "being oneself" is the surest way not to do that. Telling inexperienced or less gifted men they should just suck it up and take it is the equivalent of "let them eat cake."

[letsbeotherpeople]

People like interesting people, men often hae a narrow window to build on attraction, and "being oneself" is the surest way not to do that. Telling inexperienced or less gifted men they should just suck it up and take it is the equivalent of "let them eat cake."

 

Interestingly enough, its usually women, the very women that men are trying to attract, that tell men to just be themselves.

 

You'd think they'd learn to listen to the people they are trying to attract, rather than the dude at the back saying "No bro, be aggressive, be assertive, don't take no for an answer. They love that."

[fortyninethousand322]

Interestingly enough, its usually women, the very women that men are trying to attract, that tell men to just be themselves.

 

You'd think they'd learn to listen to the people they are trying to attract, rather than the dude at the back saying "No bro, be aggressive, be assertive, don't take no for an answer. They love that."

 

There's a concept called "revealed preference". Lots of people say one thing, but their actions indicate their true preference.

 

One look at who the kinds of men who consistently have success in the romance department are, will indicate what kind of man one should be or emulate.

 

Protestations from women or anyone else notwithstanding...

[serial muse]

I think some of you are misconstruing what I am trying to say....

 

First;

 

I judge people by actions, no words. Her actions / behavior changed after I told her that I was interested in her more than just a friend.

 

1) She showed up to the gym I work at, at odd times I had never seen her before. We're talking about 6am / 7am.

 

2) She would text at odd hours during the day. Real early, or real late. The texts didn't have any substance behind them. Just friendly texts.

 

3) To those who say "This is what friends do". Well... no. I don't have any friends that turn into 'mini-stalkers' in a blink of an eye.

 

4) Her level of communication went up. She would stick around at the gym just to talk.

 

5) When I mentioned other girls that I knew, you could see she would get slightly aggravated. For example; We were discussing one time about a location of a store. I said I could "Text one of my friends as to where it is, she would know." She kinda got a little peeved and said "No, you don't have to do that."

 

I chalked it up as another bit of competition from her.

 

Furthermore;

 

I am not looking to "Get her back". The ship has sailed.

 

I am trying to learn from the experience as to what to do next time.

 

I'm sorry, but based on your previous posts on this issue, I don't buy this for a second. You were looking for clues that her feelings might have changed, as yours did, and anything that you could latch onto, you did.

 

As I said before - bottom line, when someone tells you they're not interested, believe them. That's the takeaway lesson, and the only one worth remembering.

[ltjg45]

Interestingly enough, its usually women, the very women that men are trying to attract, that tell men to just be themselves.

 

You'd think they'd learn to listen to the people they are trying to attract, rather than the dude at the back saying "No bro, be aggressive, be assertive, don't take no for an answer. They love that."

 

I wish that was true because, so far, my results have been terrible.

 

Even if I were to have the balls to ask a woman out, she is almost always have a boyfriend and, on the rare cases that she doesn't have one, she wasn't interested enough to date me.

 

So being myself has got me nothing except an extended virginity contract.

 

That isn't very promising, I might add.

[fortyninethousand322]

I'm sorry, but based on your previous posts on this issue, I don't buy this for a second. You were looking for clues that her feelings might have changed, as yours did, and anything that you could latch onto, you did.

 

As I said before - bottom line, when someone tells you they're not interested, believe them. That's the takeaway lesson, and the only one worth remembering.

 

It's best to assume this is always the case. Unless they practically maul you.

 

I'm sure there are men who have been on several dates with a woman (like actual dates) and then six months or a year down the road she's like "yeah, I don't like you like that".

 

Avoid the confusion and heartbreak OP, just assume disinterest until proven otherwise...

[jma500]

Interestingly enough, its usually women, the very women that men are trying to attract, that tell men to just be themselves.

 

You'd think they'd learn to listen to the people they are trying to attract, rather than the dude at the back saying "No bro, be aggressive, be assertive, don't take no for an answer. They love that."

 

The problem with these guys is they believe women think alike. There are women that like assertive, aggressive men. There are others that do not. There are even some who prefer a happy medium of the two.

Edited July 31, 2013 by jma500

[fortyninethousand322]

The problem with these guys is they believe women think alike. There are women that like assertive, aggressive men. There are others that do not. There are even some who prefer a happy medium of the two.

 

And some people prefer flip phones to smart phones for their wireless service. That doesn't mean you're going to make a lot of money selling flip phones...

[letsbeotherpeople]

Yep. I'm sure that's EXACTLY what would happen.

 

I'm glad I got to play a part in your little story there Mary Sue.

[iaudio]

I'm a female, and I've had female friends who went out of their way to spend time with me as well. Crazily enough, I didn't see their behavior as 'mixed signals.'

 

Yeah.. cause the interactions of men and women are the same...

[dasein]

Interestingly enough, its usually women, the very women that men are trying to attract, that tell men to just be themselves.

 

No disagreement there. Men get lots of horrible advice from well-meaning women in their lives. It doesn't work.

 

You'd think they'd learn to listen to the people they are trying to attract, rather than the dude at the back saying "No bro, be aggressive, be assertive, don't take no for an answer. They love that."

 

You'd think people would ask a farmer how to milk a cow, not the cow, and not calling women "cows to be milked" either. Men should get dating advice from people who have lots of experience dating women in their pool.

[Pillow]

OP, I'm sorry. She is just not interested. I don't see anything she did that was out of line for someone she would consider a friend. Very rarely do women change their mind after they friendzone a guy.

 

If I have a physical attraction for a guy, I'm actually less likely to contact him first or show up at his gym or call him because I would want him to chase me.

 

If it's just my friend, I would do all sorts of things: hug, play, call, stalk, whatever, because I have no interest in them beyond that. Physical attraction changes the rules for me a lot, because there's a lot on the line.

[letsbeotherpeople]

Hey Sherlock, I did not state that ALL women cheat and they are hos... Just the unfortunate ones who date your girly ass.

 

You haven't even met the woman with three truckloads of baggage who is going to royally screw you over and you are already defending / making excuses for her. You are going to be quite the little bitch / "Captain Save A Ho".

 

PS: Since your daddy wasn't around when you were young and you were raised primarily by women... Do yourself a favor and go find some STRONG MALE ROLE MODELS before it's too late.

 

Yes ladies, he is available.

 

Form a orderly queue now.

[Simon Phoenix]

Interestingly enough, its usually women, the very women that men are trying to attract, that tell men to just be themselves.

 

You'd think they'd learn to listen to the people they are trying to attract, rather than the dude at the back saying "No bro, be aggressive, be assertive, don't take no for an answer. They love that."

 

Honestly, the last person I would ask on how to attract a woman is a woman. Because a lot of them will tell you what you want to hear, or what they think they are supposed to like, instead of what actually attracts them. What women think they are supposed to want and what ultimately gets them going aren't always the same.

[Simon Phoenix]

Yes. They really don't know their own minds, do they, the silly little things.

Aren't they lucky they have us men around to tell them what they really want.

 

You're just being unreasonable at this point. You've really never have met a woman who complains about there "not being any nice guys" who continues to choose guys that are anything but "nice"? You've honestly never seen this happen? You have never noticed that "players" who tend to be arrogant and walk a fine line between being assertive and being a cocky prick tend to go through women by the truckload, with many of the women they hook up being the type who feign disgust at guys who act like that? I mean, this is just mind-boggling. Do you have sisters? I mean, I thought the way you did in high school. And I didn't get laid in high school.

 

Most women won't tell you how to push their buttons. They want you to be able to push them on your own, because they feel a real man will be able to figure that out without needing a list of instructions.

[letsbeotherpeople]

You're just being unreasonable at this point. You've really never have met a woman who complains about there "not being any nice guys" who continues to choose guys that are anything but "nice"? You've honestly never seen this happen? You have never noticed that "players" who tend to be arrogant and walk a fine line between being assertive and being a cocky prick tend to go through women by the truckload, with many of the women they hook up being the type who feign disgust at guys who act like that? I mean, this is just mind-boggling. Do you have sisters? I mean, I thought the way you did in high school. And I didn't get laid in high school.

 

Most women won't tell you how to push their buttons. They want you to be able to push them on your own, because they feel a real man will be able to figure that out without needing a list of instructions.

 

After 40 years, one marriage, three engagements, a reasonable number of girlfriends, one or two one night stands, a healthy number of nightclub fumblings and a large number of female friends, I like to think I've met my fair share of women and shared relationships with them from purely platonic to marriage.

 

Through this time I've learnt two things.

 

1. No two women are the same, and applying a standard that you see in one woman to all women is false,

 

2. Any woman who isn't honest with herself isn't going to be honest with me, and I have zero interest with them.

 

As a consequence, the women I've formed relationships with, have tended to be very straight talking, willing to express themselves without playing mind games, and honest.

 

So when they told me to just be myself, I was, and we got on better as a result.

 

So yes, there are women like you suggest out there. But they are by no means the majority, nor are they representive of all women.

[Simon Phoenix]

After 40 years, one marriage, three engagements, a reasonable number of girlfriends, one or two one night stands, a healthy number of nightclub fumblings and a large number of female friends, I like to think I've met my fair share of women and shared relationships with them from purely platonic to marriage.

 

Through this time I've learnt two things.

 

1. No two women are the same, and applying a standard that you see in one woman to all women is false,

 

2. Any woman who isn't honest with herself isn't going to be honest with me, and I have zero interest with them.

 

As a consequence, the women I've formed relationships with, have tended to be very straight talking, willing to express themselves without playing mind games, and honest.

 

So when they told me to just be myself, I was, and we got on better as a result.

 

So yes, there are women like you suggest out there. But they are by no means the majority, nor are they representive of all women.

 

I never said it was all women, but there are certainly enough out there that give relevance to what I'm saying.

[letsbeotherpeople]

I never said it was all women, but there are certainly enough out there that give relevance to what I'm saying.

 

Well yes, and if we just take America as a sample, a small minority of 150 million people does mean a lot of people. But it's still a small minority.

[jma500]

After 40 years, one marriage, three engagements, a reasonable number of girlfriends, one or two one night stands, a healthy number of nightclub fumblings and a large number of female friends, I like to think I've met my fair share of women and shared relationships with them from purely platonic to marriage.

 

Through this time I've learnt two things.

 

1. No two women are the same, and applying a standard that you see in one woman to all women is false,

 

2. Any woman who isn't honest with herself isn't going to be honest with me, and I have zero interest with them.

 

As a consequence, the women I've formed relationships with, have tended to be very straight talking, willing to express themselves without playing mind games, and honest.

 

So when they told me to just be myself, I was, and we got on better as a result.

 

So yes, there are women like you suggest out there. But they are by no means the majority, nor are they representive of all women.

 

This is 100% correct. At least from my experience as well

[Simon Phoenix]

Well yes, and if we just take America as a sample, a small minority of 150 million people does mean a lot of people. But it's still a small minority.

 

Not nearly as small as you seem to think it is.

[dasein]

Well yes, and if we just take America as a sample, a small minority of 150 million people does mean a lot of people. But it's still a small minority.

 

Well for U.S. daters, that would be half the population, certainly not a small minority. And in our mixed up dating pool, eliminating people based on whether they respond to seduction or not is eliminating a whole lot of normal people.

 

Lots and lots of women want a clever, charming man as opposed to someone who implies by behavior or attitude "I am what I am, take it or leave it." "I don't dance, take it or leave it." "I am not at all romantic, take it or leave it."

 

Men have been seducing women for ages (and vice versa). Was the troubador under the window singing to her that she has the "face of an angel" despite never seeing an angel being an inauthentic cad? Of course not. True or false, that men aren't "romantic enough" or "assertive enough" is a common complaint women make and have been making?

 

The strawman assumptions in all these types of threads are that a) seduction skills are necessarily employed in dishonest, manipulative ways to get sex and then leave. Most inexperienced men here, at least judging by their threads and posts, are looking for dates and girlfriends. Few come here stating a desire for mere bedpost notching. If they want that, there are different places than LS to get that kind of advice. b) that learning how to charm a woman is somehow "selling out," as opposed to simply learning to be a more attractive man in the dating world. c) that women are helpless victims to seduction, and shamble like mind controlled zombies into thralldom the second a charming or seductive man pulls out the "hypno ray." Really?

 

Fact is many if not most of the men who make threads here have issues getting dates. Some are short, some are shy, some are terrified of rejection, terrified of women, have trouble stating sexual interest, are laboring under numerous incorrect assumptions about what a broad swath of women are likely to respond, etc. Honestly how valuable is the mere advice "be yourself," or "be confident?" to a man with these types of issues? It's not valuable at all in my estimation, yet is dispensed constantly.

 

Most men would prefer a world where they could walk up and say "Hi my name is X, may I call you?" and have that be enough without more. That is not the dating world we live in, not in the U.S. anyway. To have any degree of control over dating success, inexperienced daters who aren't genetically blessed must learn about social value, charm, seduction, in order to work to succeed.

 

I still contend that the woman in question in this thread may have had a baseline level of sexual attraction to OP at some point in time based on OP's posts. It's not out of the question that she lost that attraction based on OP's not becoming more assertive, striking when the iron was hot, taking a physical chance while doing things alone with her. OP was "himself" and that failed. Like developing any other skill, muscle, body of knowledge, it's time to -improve- or likely face the same result again.

[jma500]

Well for U.S. daters, that would be half the population, certainly not a small minority. And in our mixed up dating pool, eliminating people based on whether they respond to seduction or not is eliminating a whole lot of normal people.

 

Lots and lots of women want a clever, charming man as opposed to someone who implies by behavior or attitude "I am what I am, take it or leave it." "I don't dance, take it or leave it." "I am not at all romantic, take it or leave it."

 

Men have been seducing women for ages (and vice versa). Was the troubador under the window singing to her that she has the "face of an angel" despite never seeing an angel being an inauthentic cad? Of course not. True or false, that men aren't "romantic enough" or "assertive enough" is a common complaint women make and have been making?

 

The strawman assumptions in all these types of threads are that a) seduction skills are necessarily employed in dishonest, manipulative ways to get sex and then leave. Most inexperienced men here, at least judging by their threads and posts, are looking for dates and girlfriends. Few come here stating a desire for mere bedpost notching. If they want that, there are different places than LS to get that kind of advice. b) that learning how to charm a woman is somehow "selling out," as opposed to simply learning to be a more attractive man in the dating world. c) that women are helpless victims to seduction, and shamble like mind controlled zombies into thralldom the second a charming or seductive man pulls out the "hypno ray." Really?

 

Fact is many if not most of the men who make threads here have issues getting dates. Some are short, some are shy, some are terrified of rejection, terrified of women, have trouble stating sexual interest, are laboring under numerous incorrect assumptions about what a broad swath of women are likely to respond, etc. Honestly how valuable is the mere advice "be yourself," or "be confident?" to a man with these types of issues? It's not valuable at all in my estimation, yet is dispensed constantly.

 

Most men would prefer a world where they could walk up and say "Hi my name is X, may I call you?" and have that be enough without more. That is not the dating world we live in, not in the U.S. anyway. To have any degree of control over dating success, inexperienced daters who aren't genetically blessed must learn about social value, charm, seduction, in order to work to succeed.

 

I still contend that the woman in question in this thread may have had a baseline level of sexual attraction to OP at some point in time based on OP's posts. It's not out of the question that she lost that attraction based on OP's not becoming more assertive, striking when the iron was hot, taking a physical chance while doing things alone with her. OP was "himself" and that failed. Like developing any other skill, muscle, body of knowledge, it's time to -improve- or likely face the same result again.

While you make a valid point or two you lost me with women being helpless victims and mind controlled zombies. No one here ever stated anything even remotely close to these statements.

[ThaWholigan]

Well for U.S. daters, that would be half the population, certainly not a small minority. And in our mixed up dating pool, eliminating people based on whether they respond to seduction or not is eliminating a whole lot of normal people.

 

Lots and lots of women want a clever, charming man as opposed to someone who implies by behavior or attitude "I am what I am, take it or leave it." "I don't dance, take it or leave it." "I am not at all romantic, take it or leave it."

 

Men have been seducing women for ages (and vice versa). Was the troubador under the window singing to her that she has the "face of an angel" despite never seeing an angel being an inauthentic cad? Of course not. True or false, that men aren't "romantic enough" or "assertive enough" is a common complaint women make and have been making?

 

The strawman assumptions in all these types of threads are that a) seduction skills are necessarily employed in dishonest, manipulative ways to get sex and then leave. Most inexperienced men here, at least judging by their threads and posts, are looking for dates and girlfriends. Few come here stating a desire for mere bedpost notching. If they want that, there are different places than LS to get that kind of advice. b) that learning how to charm a woman is somehow "selling out," as opposed to simply learning to be a more attractive man in the dating world. c) that women are helpless victims to seduction, and shamble like mind controlled zombies into thralldom the second a charming or seductive man pulls out the "hypno ray." Really?

 

Fact is many if not most of the men who make threads here have issues getting dates. Some are short, some are shy, some are terrified of rejection, terrified of women, have trouble stating sexual interest, are laboring under numerous incorrect assumptions about what a broad swath of women are likely to respond, etc. Honestly how valuable is the mere advice "be yourself," or "be confident?" to a man with these types of issues? It's not valuable at all in my estimation, yet is dispensed constantly.

 

Most men would prefer a world where they could walk up and say "Hi my name is X, may I call you?" and have that be enough without more. That is not the dating world we live in, not in the U.S. anyway. To have any degree of control over dating success, inexperienced daters who aren't genetically blessed must learn about social value, charm, seduction, in order to work to succeed.

 

I still contend that the woman in question in this thread may have had a baseline level of sexual attraction to OP at some point in time based on OP's posts. It's not out of the question that she lost that attraction based on OP's not becoming more assertive, striking when the iron was hot, taking a physical chance while doing things alone with her. OP was "himself" and that failed. Like developing any other skill, muscle, body of knowledge, it's time to -improve- or likely face the same result again.

 

I agree with this to an extent.

 

Be yourself, while not particularly wrong IMO, is a vague enough piece of advice that the intent behind it could end up being seriously misinterpreted. There are, in my opinion, many versions of oneself - and learning how to slightly tweak your social persona and all relating parts of your being will be beneficial regarding attraction.