fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 So last time after I went NC saying I could not deal with the situation anymore, he contacted me after 3 days. He came around and we had a long, long chat. He said he was happy to go to counselling with me - does this sound really bizarre to anyone else??? What would a counsellor think if a married man and his OW turned up?? I do want to go. So I can have a third party there, so I can say what makes me unhappy being an OW....I don't think it will ever happen. I think it was one of his ways to try and keep me in the picture...but is it strange to anyone??? His position is he has two tiny kids. He claims there is no way he can leave the house and pay for 2 homes. He claims he needs to be there for the kids - that he and his wife are not a couple - but he will not leave her. He is pretty careful she doesn't find out about us - though she did know in the past..... Link to post Share on other sites
hippetyhop Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 So last time after I went NC saying I could not deal with the situation anymore, he contacted me after 3 days. He came around and we had a long, long chat. He said he was happy to go to counselling with me - does this sound really bizarre to anyone else??? What would a counsellor think if a married man and his OW turned up?? I do want to go. So I can have a third party there, so I can say what makes me unhappy being an OW....I don't think it will ever happen. I think it was one of his ways to try and keep me in the picture...but is it strange to anyone??? His position is he has two tiny kids. He claims there is no way he can leave the house and pay for 2 homes. He claims he needs to be there for the kids - that he and his wife are not a couple - but he will not leave her. He is pretty careful she doesn't find out about us - though she did know in the past..... This is utterly bizarre! Ending the A is in your court. Replying to him during NC is your choice (how it is mine). You know it isn't going to go any further, then why stay? He is doing what he can to control you. What would he do if you told him "no" to counseling? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 This is utterly bizarre! Ending the A is in your court. Replying to him during NC is your choice (how it is mine). You know it isn't going to go any further, then why stay? He is doing what he can to control you. What would he do if you told him "no" to counseling? Yep it totally was. I simply cannot ignore him if he contacts me - and he knows that too if I try and go NC. He knows I will usually go back....but I am glad you think this is strange too - I mean.......???? He is being a **** again to me now and I have had enough of this hot and cold. I'm surely it was merely empty words, i think he lives i cloud cuckoo land... Link to post Share on other sites
hippetyhop Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 How long have the two of you been having an A? Why can't you go NC? Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 So last time after I went NC saying I could not deal with the situation anymore, he contacted me after 3 days. He came around and we had a long, long chat. He said he was happy to go to counselling with me - does this sound really bizarre to anyone else??? What would a counsellor think if a married man and his OW turned up?? I do want to go. So I can have a third party there, so I can say what makes me unhappy being an OW....I don't think it will ever happen. I think it was one of his ways to try and keep me in the picture...but is it strange to anyone??? His position is he has two tiny kids. He claims there is no way he can leave the house and pay for 2 homes. He claims he needs to be there for the kids - that he and his wife are not a couple - but he will not leave her. He is pretty careful she doesn't find out about us - though she did know in the past..... This guy feels he can manipulate you and is not afraid to come up with off the wall solutions. He must be a great used car salesman.:lmao: This is really disrespectful! He wants your IC person to tell you to shut up and be his submissive concubine. Run for the hills!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 How long have the two of you been having an A? Why can't you go NC? 18 months....I just cannot ignore people. I find it impossible. If I see his number I just pick up, or I reply to a text. It feels like playing a game to me to go NC. Also every time I try to end it amicably he acts like he doesn't care and is very cold - so that actually stresses me out a fair bit more too. I don't like fighting. It would be so much easier though if he could say he understood, we had had a lovely time together blah blah, this was not fair on me, and just would wish me all the best... He has loads of stuff at my place, we run an ebay business, we have many of the same friends (his friends all know he has a wife but seem fine to welcome me as if it is all okay - they are cuban - living in London and from what I see many of them have girlfriends etc on the side)....... and of course despite all the roller coaster of having an A - I do love him...We usually see each other 3-4-5 times a week, he stays over a couple of nights. I guess it must be too the fear of that all going..... I have been through a divorce, other big break-ups....I didnt have NC then, just LC...this is very different though... My only other thought is I know he does respect a friend of mine - he's a bit fearful of her tbh - and also she speaks spanish like he does. She is one of my few friends who know his whole situation. I am half tempted to get her to talk to him and say look, stop contacting her when she says it is over. Your are hurting her by doing this and being selfish...maybe he might take more notice....dunno.... Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 18 months....I just cannot ignore people. I find it impossible. If I see his number I just pick up, or I reply to a text. It feels like playing a game to me to go NC. Also every time I try to end it amicably he acts like he doesn't care and is very cold - so that actually stresses me out a fair bit more too. I don't like fighting. It would be so much easier though if he could say he understood, we had had a lovely time together blah blah, this was not fair on me, and just would wish me all the best... He has loads of stuff at my place, we run an ebay business, we have many of the same friends (his friends all know he has a wife but seem fine to welcome me as if it is all okay - they are cuban - living in London and from what I see many of them have girlfriends etc on the side)....... and of course despite all the roller coaster of having an A - I do love him...We usually see each other 3-4-5 times a week, he stays over a couple of nights. I guess it must be too the fear of that all going..... I have been through a divorce, other big break-ups....I didnt have NC then, just LC...this is very different though... My only other thought is I know he does respect a friend of mine - he's a bit fearful of her tbh - and also she speaks spanish like he does. She is one of my few friends who know his whole situation. I am half tempted to get her to talk to him and say look, stop contacting her when she says it is over. Your are hurting her by doing this and being selfish...maybe he might take more notice....dunno.... As I said, he wants you be be his concubine. This could be part of his culture and you are expected to do your part. I bet his wife does not care and he will never leave his family. Your inability to say NO makes it easy for him. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
It-is-what-it-is. Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 18 months....I just cannot ignore people. I find it impossible. If I see his number I just pick up, or I reply to a text. It feels like playing a game to me to go NC. Also every time I try to end it amicably he acts like he doesn't care and is very cold - so that actually stresses me out a fair bit more too. I don't like fighting. It would be so much easier though if he could say he understood, we had had a lovely time together blah blah, this was not fair on me, and just would wish me all the best... He has loads of stuff at my place, we run an ebay business, we have many of the same friends (his friends all know he has a wife but seem fine to welcome me as if it is all okay - they are cuban - living in London and from what I see many of them have girlfriends etc on the side)....... and of course despite all the roller coaster of having an A - I do love him...We usually see each other 3-4-5 times a week, he stays over a couple of nights. I guess it must be too the fear of that all going..... I have been through a divorce, other big break-ups....I didnt have NC then, just LC...this is very different though... My only other thought is I know he does respect a friend of mine - he's a bit fearful of her tbh - and also she speaks spanish like he does. She is one of my few friends who know his whole situation. I am half tempted to get her to talk to him and say look, stop contacting her when she says it is over. Your are hurting her by doing this and being selfish...maybe he might take more notice....dunno.... Hey, if you and he and his wife all think a polyamory type relationship works for all of you then, sit down with the three of you and a counselor. Work out the bugs. But this only really works for him? Amiright? This is just cruel and manipulative. He has little kids and won't leave, but won't leave you alone knowing you will never cut him off. Why would he do anything differently? You need to address your inability to do what's best for you. Why do you need him to do the right thing? 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 As I said, he wants you be be his concubine. This could be part of his culture and you are expected to do your part. I bet his wife does not care and he will never leave his family. Your inability to say NO makes it easy for him. Yep I know all that is all too true. I have been to Cuba. It seemed totally the norm for the people there, the ones I met anyway, to have 2-3 boyfriends/girlfriends. That is why I think he cannot see why it is such a problem for me he is with his wife!!!! Frankly though he treats her like ****....I dont think I would want to be in her position - I actually have had the better deal Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 We've heard of other cases of MM/OW joint counseling before - usually prompted and arranged by the MM who wants to stay in his M and also keep the OW on the hook. It makes no sense to me. As to what the counselor would think if this sort of thing were sprung on him/her, it would be awkward. They want to keep a client happy, of course.... But it must be a poor sort of counselor, who provides advice on how to keep your secret dishonest life going. IMO. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Pierre Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Yep I know all that is all too true. I have been to Cuba. It seemed totally the norm for the people there, the ones I met anyway, to have 2-3 boyfriends/girlfriends. That is why I think he cannot see why it is such a problem for me he is with his wife!!!! Frankly though he treats her like ****....I dont think I would want to be in her position - I actually have had the better deal It depends I know many upright devout Roman catholic Cubans that don't lie or cheat, however they were from Miami and descendants of the original Cuban wave in the 60s. The Cubans left on the island may have different cultural values. I know that nice young women often have to work as "jineteras" prostitutes for the European tourists to make ends meet. Lastly, don't rationalize your OW role. In the end he will choose the wife and kids. You need to move on. Learn how to say no. I suspect you have low self esteem. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
canuckprincess Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Here's my take on it, I don't think you really want to end it. If you did and he still contacted you then you need to say, "if you disrespect me again and break NC then I'm calling your wife". That should stop it. Or perhaps you could just try low contact instead. Link to post Share on other sites
hippetyhop Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Here's my take on it, I don't think you really want to end it. If you did and he still contacted you then you need to say, "if you disrespect me again and break NC then I'm calling your wife". That should stop it. Or perhaps you could just try low contact instead. I have to politely disagree with low contact. The only downfall with that is depending how much "low contact" you have, you can still be easily drawn in. Tell him what canuck said re. telling his wife. Have him call your bluff. Link to post Share on other sites
Author fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Here's my take on it, I don't think you really want to end it. If you did and he still contacted you then you need to say, "if you disrespect me again and break NC then I'm calling your wife". That should stop it. Or perhaps you could just try low contact instead. I did that once before when he was being a **** and I got angry. He said okay I don't care if you contact her. She seems a real real doormat, I mean I hear him talk to her on the phone really badly. He stays away from the house all the time, and she obviously allows it. They don't go on holidays - me and the MM do...I go to parties with him, around to other people's houses, etc etc She did know about me at one point. She tried calling me. Then she stopped. I'm going to try LC. I would find it easier to talk and just say I am busy - rather than ignore. I can manage not contacting him - so I will continue doing that again.... If I work lots and make plans with my friends then I will not be free to see him. I'm not the type to let my friends down if I have plans if he did suddenly app will try and book a holiday too. Simply get on with my life....and try to slowly fade out of it..... Link to post Share on other sites
canuckprincess Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I have to politely disagree with low contact. The only downfall with that is depending how much "low contact" you have, you can still be easily drawn in. Tell him what canuck said re. telling his wife. Have him call your bluff. I suggested LC cause most times if you take sex off the table some mm will lose interest and leave you alone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
canuckprincess Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think we need to come up with a clever name to call mm/mw who break contact. Any suggestions? Link to post Share on other sites
hippetyhop Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I suggested LC cause most times if you take sex off the table some mm will lose interest and leave you alone. ahh...I never thought about. Even with LC, xMM wanted to do the deed. Link to post Share on other sites
KathyM Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think you should see an independent counselor ALONE and work on why you are such a people pleaser that you can't do what is in your best interests and have no perceived control over whether you accept his calls/texts. It's like you have no mind of your own and just do what someone else wants, even if it's not in your best interests. An IC will help you improve your self esteem and your assertiveness so that you will feel more powerful in your decision making and not just a victim of some guy's choices, but able to make your own choices and not feel powerless. You come across as someone who is not the decision maker in this and are just going with whatever he wants. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 I suggested LC cause most times if you take sex off the table some mm will lose interest and leave you alone. With him I dont think that would work. Yes the sex is important but we did a hell of a lot more together than that and often would meet and not have sex....we would see each other 4-5 times a week, spend all day working on stuff together, watching our favourite documentaries we both like, cooking, dropping around friend's houses for drinks, going to the park etc etc etc.......that is why it is also hard to let go. Link to post Share on other sites
hippetyhop Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think we need to come up with a clever name to call mm/mw who break contact. Any suggestions? HA! I like that idea! I've referred to MM as "Master Manipulators". 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 I think you should see an independent counselor ALONE and work on why you are such a people pleaser that you can't do what is in your best interests and have no perceived control over whether you accept his calls/texts. It's like you have no mind of your own and just do what someone else wants, even if it's not in your best interests. An IC will help you improve your self esteem and your assertiveness so that you will feel more powerful in your decision making and not just a victim of some guy's choices, but able to make your own choices and not feel powerless. You come across as someone who is not the decision maker in this and are just going with whatever he wants. It is true. I do have low self esteem - yet I work as a serious journalist at a highly prestigious company in the UK!! but yes, I am not confident underneath it all. I had eating disorders for years when I was younger - well over that now. The last 7 years have been hard. My 39 year old brother died suddenly with no warning....then 4 years later my gran died - and she was like a second mother to me - followed by my 71 year old dad 2 months after that. PLUS in the middle of all this I got divorced.........I had to support first my parents and then my mum through all this - no-one would ask how I was, there was no-one to look after me. I learnt I had to protect myself, be strong.....I know I have issues and my MM thrives on them.......... Link to post Share on other sites
canuckprincess Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 With him I dont think that would work. Yes the sex is important but we did a hell of a lot more together than that and often would meet and not have sex....we would see each other 4-5 times a week, spend all day working on stuff together, watching our favourite documentaries we both like, cooking, dropping around friend's houses for drinks, going to the park etc etc etc.......that is why it is also hard to let go. So why is he staying with his wife if he is spending all this time with you? So stop making yourself so readily available. Note to self, follow my own advise 2 Link to post Share on other sites
jlola Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Here's my take on it, I don't think you really want to end it. If you did and he still contacted you then you need to say, "if you disrespect me again and break NC then I'm calling your wife". That should stop it. Or perhaps you could just try low contact instead. I come from a similar culture than your Cuban. Let me make this clear. HE WILL NEVER LEAVE HIS WIFE!!! There is a completely different cultural mentality and your friend latina should be able to explain this to you. You see, many latin men think they are entitled to the wife and the mistress. EVEN IF the wife finds out, she will stay. She will never leave and his family will not allow him to. His family will never accept you. Family is very important to latinos . They separate Mistress/Wife and family. You will have your place and you will stay there. I also guarantee you that if you were "lucky" enough to get him to divorce. YOIU Will be next to be cheated on. You see he feels entitled to having a wife and a mistress. I am not saying all Cuban man are like that. But many. He is proving to be one of them. I am sure your friend has told you he will cheat on you too. But I know, you will not put up with it right? Yes you will. You proved you are rules by your emotions and cannot walk away. This man knows that and he understands whatever you say holds no value. You cannot even maintain no contact. He is the puppet master here. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author fanine Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 So why is he staying with his wife if he is spending all this time with you? So stop making yourself so readily available. Note to self, follow my own advise His argument for staying iss his small kids. He says there is no way he can pay for 2 homes - one for the wife and one for him. He says he is stuck ... but frankly I think it is awful for 2 kids to be living under one roof like that.... Yep that is why I think LC is the best thing to try. I am determined to make all my spare time as filled as possible. Then I am not free. I do not let other people down if I make plans with them. I do have plenty of friends - lots to do here in London....I am self-employed so can work extra days (money would be handy!) ... and I will not initiate any contact Link to post Share on other sites
threelaurels Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 We've heard of other cases of MM/OW joint counseling before - usually prompted and arranged by the MM who wants to stay in his M and also keep the OW on the hook. It makes no sense to me. As to what the counselor would think if this sort of thing were sprung on him/her, it would be awkward. They want to keep a client happy, of course.... But it must be a poor sort of counselor, who provides advice on how to keep your secret dishonest life going. IMO. I read a study a while ago where therapy sessions were conducted with the MM, the BS, and the OW. Crazy. Is MM suggesting a counselor, or will he let you pick? If he thinks a decent therapist is going to agree with him on this one, he's out of his mind. No therapist is going to tell you to stay in a dynamic that makes you unhappy. The best thing to do is stay NC. Link to post Share on other sites
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