MM wanted to go to counselling with me his OW??

[canuckprincess]

His argument for staying iss his small kids. He says there is no way he can pay for 2 homes - one for the wife and one for him. He says he is stuck ... but frankly I think it is awful for 2 kids to be living under one roof like that....

 

Yep that is why I think LC is the best thing to try. I am determined to make all my spare time as filled as possible. Then I am not free. I do not let other people down if I make plans with them. I do have plenty of friends - lots to do here in London....I am self-employed so can work extra days (money would be handy!) ... and I will not initiate any contact

 

Good luck, I do understand how difficult it is to break up with your lover, possibly best friend and maybe even soulmate ( if that actually even exists). It's hard to break up when chances are you never fight with this man or have any of the problems that most relationships break up over.

[fanine]

I read a study a while ago where therapy sessions were conducted with the MM, the BS, and the OW. Crazy.

 

Is MM suggesting a counselor, or will he let you pick? If he thinks a decent therapist is going to agree with him on this one, he's out of his mind. No therapist is going to tell you to stay in a dynamic that makes you unhappy.

 

The best thing to do is stay NC.

 

I'm glad you all seem to think this is as crazy as I think it is. I really am starting to think that my MM may be a bit screwed in the head.....to have such a non sensical suggestion........ but he keeps claiming oh I am not with my wife we just share a house. I should always think he lives with his kids - not her!! But if the marriage was really over they should not be putting up a fake front for the kids.

 

TBH too - I do sometimes get angry with his wife - not for being his wife per se - but for the fact, I have learnt that he has had a history of other women whilst with her - and she simply allows him to get away with treating women like this.

It seems she has always known abut the other woman and - and basically allowed him to act like this - so in a sense he thinks it is fine to have his cake and eat it - wifey isnt bothered and will never leave me, he thinks. I have seen the texts he sent her once (I was suspicious as when we first met he did say he was single...) things like I know you are not talking to me but I miss you and love you etc etc....

She has allowed him to act like this and not accept any responsibility for his actions.......god knows why I want to be with him eh?

[KathyM]

It is true. I do have low self esteem - yet I work as a serious journalist at a highly prestigious company in the UK!! but yes, I am not confident underneath it all. I had eating disorders for years when I was younger - well over that now. The last 7 years have been hard. My 39 year old brother died suddenly with no warning....then 4 years later my gran died - and she was like a second mother to me - followed by my 71 year old dad 2 months after that. PLUS in the middle of all this I got divorced.........I had to support first my parents and then my mum through all this - no-one would ask how I was, there was no-one to look after me. I learnt I had to protect myself, be strong.....I know I have issues and my MM thrives on them..........

Yes, I can see you are giving him all the power in this and letting him make the choice for you. MM are master manipulators and are quick to take advantage of and monopolize on women who have self esteem issues or are vulnerable because of life circumstances. Please consider seeing an IC to work on getting your power back and work on your self esteem. It's not healthy to feel so powerless. MM will take advantage of that, and he has.

[Got it]

Okay I will be the lone voice here and not only was the idea proposed, we did do couples counseling in the affair, through the separation into divorce and on.

 

It was actually my idea and one of the contingencies for the affair. I did not see it as a way to manipulate though I guess that could be done, but to focus on our relationship as well as also doing IC. He was planning to divorced and used therapy to help him work through the process.

 

So there you go, it does happen.

[jlola]

 

TBH too - I do sometimes get angry with his wife - not for being his wife per se - but for the fact, I have learnt that he has had a history of other women whilst with her - and she simply allows him to get away with treating women like this.

It seems she has always known abut the other woman and - and basically allowed him to act like this - so in a sense he thinks it is fine to have his cake and eat it - wifey isnt bothered and will never leave me, he thinks. I have seen the texts he sent her once (I was suspicious as when we first met he did say he was single...) things like I know you are not talking to me but I miss you and love you etc etc....

She has allowed him to act like this and not accept any responsibility for his actions.......god knows why I want to be with him eh?

 

 

Stop looking at her actions and look at your own. I cannot believe any woman will date a serial cheater and think she can change him. You see what he is.This is not a one time deal, but ingrained into him. Yet you too refuse to see reality and you are not even married to him or have children with him. It should be easier for you to walk away. Yet you put all the blame on the wife.

 

Look, you cannot control anyone but yourself. This man has no integrity ,no empathy and is very selfish.

 

He is also a master manipulator. Yet you give him a free pass. He is manipulating his wife and manipulating you.

 

Chances are, he was not talking to her for something pretty stupid. She probably has to walk on eggshells around him. He is the kind is she is suspicious of something, he will twist it around to the point of having her apologize.

 

Look at the character of the man. Just to have a man in your life should not be the only goal. It is a man who is selfless, has integrity,morals,knows the meaning of true love and has empathy. This man is none of those. But like some sort of contest women compete for a prize not worth having because they place such little value on themselves.

[fanine]

Okay I will be the lone voice here and not only was the idea proposed, we did do couples counseling in the affair, through the separation into divorce and on.

 

It was actually my idea and one of the contingencies for the affair. I did not see it as a way to manipulate though I guess that could be done, but to focus on our relationship as well as also doing IC. He was planning to divorced and used therapy to help him work through the process.

 

So there you go, it does happen.

 

but yours was going through a divorce....mine says he will never do that .....

[KathyM]

Okay I will be the lone voice here and not only was the idea proposed, we did do couples counseling in the affair, through the separation into divorce and on.

 

It was actually my idea and one of the contingencies for the affair. I did not see it as a way to manipulate though I guess that could be done, but to focus on our relationship as well as also doing IC. He was planning to divorced and used therapy to help him work through the process.

 

So there you go, it does happen.

The problem is, this guy isn't suggesting counseling as a means to work through an exit plan, he is suggesting it to keep her as the OW to be satisfied with the status quo. He has no intention of leaving his wife and kids. He wants to pacify the OW so she will stay in that role.

[Pierre]

Okay I will be the lone voice here and not only was the idea proposed, we did do couples counseling in the affair, through the separation into divorce and on.

 

It was actually my idea and one of the contingencies for the affair. I did not see it as a way to manipulate though I guess that could be done, but to focus on our relationship as well as also doing IC. He was planning to divorced and used therapy to help him work through the process.

 

So there you go, it does happen.

 

Please read the thread again.

[2sure]

Since you cant stop yourself from speaking with him, why not call him on it?

 

You may gets something you need from going to a therapist with him. Maybe saying the words out loud to someone , with both of you right there, will give you a new perspective.

 

Id call him on it. Yes, lets go to therapy. Mkae sure he realizes its a process, not a one time thing.

 

He apparently is able to have lots of free time so going should not be an issue.

[whichwayisup]

So last time after I went NC saying I could not deal with the situation anymore, he contacted me after 3 days. He came around and we had a long, long chat. He said he was happy to go to counselling with me - does this sound really bizarre to anyone else??? What would a counsellor think if a married man and his OW turned up??

 

I do want to go. So I can have a third party there, so I can say what makes me unhappy being an OW....I don't think it will ever happen. I think it was one of his ways to try and keep me in the picture...but is it strange to anyone???

 

His position is he has two tiny kids. He claims there is no way he can leave the house and pay for 2 homes. He claims he needs to be there for the kids - that he and his wife are not a couple - but he will not leave her. He is pretty careful she doesn't find out about us - though she did know in the past.....

 

There's no point in going to counseling with him. He has NO intention of leaving his wife and children to start a new life with you.

 

If you do not wish to be the OW, end it and grieve the loss, stay in NC mode and let yourself heal so you can find love one day with a man who can offer you everything. I'm sure you want your own kids some day... If you stay the OW, you will not 'have' him in the way you want and you'll be lonely and miserable every holiday, birthday, etc while he's with his wife and children.

 

Don't settle for table scraps.

 

So, he intends on counseling with you to make the A work to his advantage? Keep you in life and make sure his wife never finds out about his 'double life'? That's just wrong and evil. He can't have it both ways and you shouldn't put up with it either. He's told you he isn't leaving..So, you leave. IF you can't, then accept your role in his life and be happy with the time you do spend with him for as long as it lasts.

[fanine]

Thank you everyone for your advice....it is so good to have people to chat to who do not judge at all. I do feel so stupid and ashamed about it all. I have called him on it - and said okay then - you suggested it - lets do it. I am yet to hear a response.

I do know I have to get out of it...I know I can only do NC again if I am really really determined I will keep it. So in the meantime I am going to slowly cut any ties we have that would give him a reason to get in touch - like his stuff here etc....and then somehow work out an exit plan

[Pierre]

Thank you everyone for your advice....it is so good to have people to chat to who do not judge at all. I do feel so stupid and ashamed about it all. I have called him on it - and said okay then - you suggested it - lets do it. I am yet to hear a response.

I do know I have to get out of it...I know I can only do NC again if I am really really determined I will keep it. So in the meantime I am going to slowly cut any ties we have that would give him a reason to get in touch - like his stuff here etc....and then somehow work out an exit plan

 

This man is taking advantage of your kind heart, innocence, and somewhat naive view. But, what is really awful is that he takes advantage of your low self esteem. That is borderline abuse. He only cares about himself. Are you able to see that? He says waht you want to hear. Can you see that?

[fanine]

This man is taking advantage of your kind heart, innocence, and somewhat naive view. But, what is really awful is that he takes advantage of your low self esteem. That is borderline abuse. He only cares about himself. Are you able to see that? He says waht you want to hear. Can you see that?

 

Yep I know that. I do. I know it is stupid. Im in my 40s, a professional successful woman in a stressful environment. I have been married and divorced. I ended it as the marriage was not giving me what I wanted. I have my own good home here in London. I have many friends...I look great for my age, I am pretty, I have a great figure. Most people do say I am amazing (I'm not being big-headed here!) but I do get compliments for being the person I am.

 

I don't understand why I have fallen under his stupid spell. He isn't even all that. He doesn't earn much, he goes in and out of work, he can drink too much. He has problems. ... I know he is selfish. I am aware more and more now he says the things he knows I want to hear.

 

I do want out of it. But every time I try NC, he gets back in touch. I find it impossible to not respond. That is why I think maybe if I get a friend of mine he knows and is a bit scared of as she is quite a formidable woman, to get his stuff back to him from my house and to tell him straight to leave me alone. She knows the whole situation. She is a straight talking Scot. If he knew someone else knew what was happening then it might make him take it in a bit more. He really doesnt like his dirty linen being washed in public. Also It would mean I would not have to see him again, or have any text or phone contact.

 

I know if I turned up on his doorstep also that could be a way he would cut all ties - he would be angry - if I told his wife to tell him to leave me alone - but I do not want to do that. YEs she is fully aware of who I am - but there are small kids there - I do not want to hurt her anymore, or for them to be there and to see all that drama...

 

Of course I can just stick to my guns and not reply....and try that again

[MissBee]

So last time after I went NC saying I could not deal with the situation anymore, he contacted me after 3 days. He came around and we had a long, long chat. He said he was happy to go to counselling with me - does this sound really bizarre to anyone else??? What would a counsellor think if a married man and his OW turned up??

 

I do want to go. So I can have a third party there, so I can say what makes me unhappy being an OW....I don't think it will ever happen. I think it was one of his ways to try and keep me in the picture...but is it strange to anyone???

 

His position is he has two tiny kids. He claims there is no way he can leave the house and pay for 2 homes. He claims he needs to be there for the kids - that he and his wife are not a couple - but he will not leave her. He is pretty careful she doesn't find out about us - though she did know in the past.....

 

Funnily, I made a thread about this a while back, as someone asserted as though it was par for the course for OW and MM to go to counseling together. In that thread I think only one person said they did that, but no other affair couple seemed to go to counseling together. I did see a parody on a comedy show of a couple getting counseling then the counselor realizing the woman was his OW...

 

But I'd be curious about how a counselor handles that. So I'd actually take him up on his offer and go to this counseling (if he doesn't back down when you're dead set on it) and then you can report back about how the counselor treated that dynamic.

 

Edited to add: I just saw Got It's reply, and in that thread she was also the only person to have said she did it. In the case of an exit affair like hers, I can see how it wouldn't be completely ridiculous, but in the case where a MM is making no moves to leave and the affair has been going on and on and he wants to ignore the fact that he is married and just try to address "other problems"...welllll....I would be interested in hearing how a counselor responds to that.

Edited July 30, 2013 by MissBee

[fanine]

Funnily, I made a thread about this a while back, as someone asserted as though it was par for the course for OW and MM to go to counseling together. In that thread I think only one person said they did that, but no other affair couple seemed to go to counseling together. I did see a parody on a comedy show of a couple getting counseling then the counselor realizing the woman was his OW...

 

But I'd be curious about how a counselor handles that. So I'd actually take him up on his offer and go to this counseling (if he doesn't back down when you're dead set on it) and then you can report back about how the counselor treated that dynamic.

 

Edited to add: I just saw Got It's reply, and in that thread she was also the only person to have said she did it. In the case of an exit affair like hers, I can see how it wouldn't be completely ridiculous, but in the case where a MM is making no moves to leave and the affair has been going on and on and he wants to ignore the fact that he is married and just try to address "other problems"...welllll....I would be interested in hearing how a counselor responds to that.

 

I am curious too. I mean it does seem a bizarre thing...I really would wonder how a counsellor would advise on this....if it does every happen I will update you all! I don't know if it will. I have said okay, you suggested it. Let's do it. Had no reply though. The only good thing I feel that could come out of it for me is I would be able to say all the things I want to say, but only get a half chance to say before he tries to convince me otherwise, or use a counter-argument, or just angry about. Having a third party there would mean he would have to listen, see why the situation is not something I can just 'accept'. Even if it meant it was all over after that - as I do plan first LC and then NC - at least I would feel I had my chance to say those words...

 

But I do think he will back out of it anyway...so I will just get on with my LC and then NC...

[MissBee]

I am curious too. I mean it does seem a bizarre thing...I really would wonder how a counsellor would advise on this....if it does every happen I will update you all! I don't know if it will. I have said okay, you suggested it. Let's do it. Had no reply though. The only good thing I feel that could come out of it for me is I would be able to say all the things I want to say, but only get a half chance to say before he tries to convince me otherwise, or use a counter-argument, or just angry about. Having a third party there would mean he would have to listen, see why the situation is not something I can just 'accept'. Even if it meant it was all over after that - as I do plan first LC and then NC - at least I would feel I had my chance to say those words...

 

But I do think he will back out of it anyway...so I will just get on with my LC and then NC...

 

I think he will back out too...

 

But if he agrees, the reasons why you want to go make perfect sense and I think would be an eye opener for both of you.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Fanine

If you cannot stop answering him when he calls, start with some other boundaries while you build up your confidence.

 

Whatever boundary you can enforce. Like him taking his stuff from your house. He does not live there. Make him sleep at home. Unless he is paying rent...you have a right to privacy.

 

You said you run a business together so you need to make changes there, so he is not coming and going at will.

 

Unless of course, deep down you want to keep it this way, but just stop the secrets and lying? Which, if the wife knows, could be on the table too. If everyone is cool with the setup, like the culture you talked about, then thats fine. Its the lies and secrets make it bad, and if you are prepared to remain the side piece indefinitely who are we to judge?

 

But by being his side piece, you are nt out building a relationship with someone to be their only. Never get married, never have a monogamous relationship, never have relationship with his children, or have your own. It's ok if that's ok to you. Do you want that or something more?

[fanine]

Yep mine wanted us to go to couples counseling as well.

 

I was like wtf? Our issues aren't based on communication or any other form of regular relationship problems, the issue is your married!

 

It is a real wtf isn't it? Are these guys just totally deluded...crazy even

[fanine]

Fanine

If you cannot stop answering him when he calls, start with some other boundaries while you build up your confidence.

 

Whatever boundary you can enforce. Like him taking his stuff from your house. He does not live there. Make him sleep at home. Unless he is paying rent...you have a right to privacy.

 

You said you run a business together so you need to make changes there, so he is not coming and going at will.

 

Unless of course, deep down you want to keep it this way, but just stop the secrets and lying? Which, if the wife knows, could be on the table too. If everyone is cool with the setup, like the culture you talked about, then thats fine. Its the lies and secrets make it bad, and if you are prepared to remain the side piece indefinitely who are we to judge?

 

But by being his side piece, you are nt out building a relationship with someone to be their only. Never get married, never have a monogamous relationship, never have relationship with his children, or have your own. It's ok if that's ok to you. Do you want that or something more?

 

I do want something more. Previous to this I had two 9 year relationships - the second one I was married to the guy. I miss sharing a home with someone. I may be too old to have kids now but I want a proper relationship. I am also very happy being single - before I met this guy I was single for over a year. I was not desperate to meet someone - we just met in a bar and it went on from there.

 

I am not the type who needs a man in my life - I would like someone that will compliment my life, someone special. Someone to love and grow with and share experiences with. And for affection and sex of course...

 

I really dont know how this guy got to me - how he put his spell on me....how I fell for it all. But I am determined to get out of it. I am making steps. I have to do it slowly, but I am working on it.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I do want something more. Previous to this I had two 9 year relationships - the second one I was married to the guy. I miss sharing a home with someone. I may be too old to have kids now but I want a proper relationship. I am also very happy being single - before I met this guy I was single for over a year. I was not desperate to meet someone - we just met in a bar and it went on from there.

 

I am not the type who needs a man in my life - I would like someone that will compliment my life, someone special. Someone to love and grow with and share experiences with. And for affection and sex of course...

 

I really dont know how this guy got to me - how he put his spell on me....how I fell for it all. But I am determined to get out of it. I am making steps. I have to do it slowly, but I am working on it.

 

Can I say this is freaking awesome? Cause it is...you seem like a cool chick, and smart. You deserve to be happy and free yourself from this weird situation.

[fanine]

Can I say this is freaking awesome? Cause it is...you seem like a cool chick, and smart. You deserve to be happy and free yourself from this weird situation.

 

Thank you I think my low self esteem after a harrowing few years of first my brother dying suddenly at 39, my gran who was like my second mother, then my dad suddenly - and a divorce - meant I spent years actually looking after other people - first my parents, then my mum. But I had no-one to give me affection and attention. Hardly anyone would ask how I was coping with it all. Always how are you parents? After my brother died. Then how is your mum? After my dad. I had to put on a strong front as I was the only one trying to hold it all together (I am an only child now so just me and my mum who naturally is still v much devastated by it all). My husband was so unsupportive with it all - one reason why he is an ex!

 

I guess this guy came along with all the old tricks. Gave me such great attention, treated me like a princess, opening doors for me, telling me he had never thought he would meet a woman like me. I felt really cared for. A month after we met I ended up suddenly in hospital for a week - he was incredible, looking after me, visiting me...

 

I fell for it all. He did say when we met he was single. I was in seventh heaven - I felt finally something great after all these tough years. When he is loving I have never had a man be like that with me before...but with that also comes the bull**** that has developed along the way and the little red flags along the way that I failed to spot (or rather just ignored...)

 

So I know much of it is to do with me letting him get away with this whole thing - and I know I have to work on that.

 

But thank you again for being so kind

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Thank you I think my low self esteem after a harrowing few years of first my brother dying suddenly at 39, my gran who was like my second mother, then my dad suddenly - and a divorce - meant I spent years actually looking after other people - first my parents, then my mum. But I had no-one to give me affection and attention. Hardly anyone would ask how I was coping with it all. Always how are you parents? After my brother died. Then how is your mum? After my dad. I had to put on a strong front as I was the only one trying to hold it all together (I am an only child now so just me and my mum who naturally is still v much devastated by it all). My husband was so unsupportive with it all - one reason why he is an ex!

 

I guess this guy came along with all the old tricks. Gave me such great attention, treated me like a princess, opening doors for me, telling me he had never thought he would meet a woman like me. I felt really cared for. A month after we met I ended up suddenly in hospital for a week - he was incredible, looking after me, visiting me...

 

I fell for it all. He did say when we met he was single. I was in seventh heaven - I felt finally something great after all these tough years. When he is loving I have never had a man be like that with me before...but with that also comes the bull**** that has developed along the way and the little red flags along the way that I failed to spot (or rather just ignored...)

 

So I know much of it is to do with me letting him get away with this whole thing - and I know I have to work on that.

 

But thank you again for being so kind

 

Boy do I get this...so many painful things...kinda leaves a hole in your heart, doesn't it? I see the ease with which a person can integrate themselves into your life, someone who shows you kindness during those times. It puts something into that empty space right? I get that. I wonder if, although he was kind, no doubt, but along with that kindness was a bit of rot? And that rot is spreading and a bit rubs off on you?

 

I understand this hole where your loved ones used to reside. You need to fill up your empty space some other way.

[Got it]

The problem is, this guy isn't suggesting counseling as a means to work through an exit plan, he is suggesting it to keep her as the OW to be satisfied with the status quo. He has no intention of leaving his wife and kids. He wants to pacify the OW so she will stay in that role.

 

The question was about a MM wanting to go to counseling with his OW. So I answered that. The reasons for it may be different but I really don't that matters.

 

As Kathy should be able to testify, therapy is a great neutral setting where both parties can talk about their feelings and work through what they want. So regardless of why he wants to go, it can EASILY worked through in therapy how unrealistic his expectations may be. What a wonderful place to be able to both speak from the heart and safe place.

 

He may want her to go to keep status quo, which I feel is speculation since he isn't on here discussing it, but regardless of that therapy may be the place for him to recognize where the other parties lie and maybe putting himself in their shoes.

 

What a NOVEL idea!

[fanine]

The question was about a MM wanting to go to counseling with his OW. So I answered that. The reasons for it may be different but I really don't that matters.

 

As Kathy should be able to testify, therapy is a great neutral setting where both parties can talk about their feelings and work through what they want. So regardless of why he wants to go, it can EASILY worked through in therapy how unrealistic his expectations may be. What a wonderful place to be able to both speak from the heart and safe place.

 

He may want her to go to keep status quo, which I feel is speculation since he isn't on here discussing it, but regardless of that therapy may be the place for him to recognize where the other parties lie and maybe putting himself in their shoes.

 

What a NOVEL idea!

 

Well I suggested it yesterday and he has not replied to me, not contacted me since. I am leaving him be. It was his suggestion, I said okay then, let's do it. I am not going to push any more or contact him at all. He can think about it. Frankly anyway I am not going to contact him. It might just have been something he said to keep me with him. We will see. He is incredibly selfish, he is no good for me, and in the end the situation is not good for me. But I would like that chance to say why with a third party there...

[findingnemo]

Thank you I think my low self esteem after a harrowing few years of first my brother dying suddenly at 39, my gran who was like my second mother, then my dad suddenly - and a divorce - meant I spent years actually looking after other people - first my parents, then my mum. But I had no-one to give me affection and attention. Hardly anyone would ask how I was coping with it all. Always how are you parents? After my brother died. Then how is your mum? After my dad. I had to put on a strong front as I was the only one trying to hold it all together (I am an only child now so just me and my mum who naturally is still v much devastated by it all). My husband was so unsupportive with it all - one reason why he is an ex!

 

I guess this guy came along with all the old tricks. Gave me such great attention, treated me like a princess, opening doors for me, telling me he had never thought he would meet a woman like me. I felt really cared for. A month after we met I ended up suddenly in hospital for a week - he was incredible, looking after me, visiting me...

 

I fell for it all. He did say when we met he was single. I was in seventh heaven - I felt finally something great after all these tough years. When he is loving I have never had a man be like that with me before...but with that also comes the bull**** that has developed along the way and the little red flags along the way that I failed to spot (or rather just ignored...)

 

So I know much of it is to do with me letting him get away with this whole thing - and I know I have to work on that.

 

But thank you again for being so kind

 

Interesting thread, Fanine. Regarding your MM, well what's there to say that hasn't already been said? He is from a culture where what he is doing is normal. You're from one where it isn't. I don't see him as being manipulative as much as being a bit dense. Can't he understand why you find his being M a problem? Gosh!

 

Now to self-esteem. You've had a rough time in the last few years. You are an accomplished woman who is perfectly capable of looking after yourself financially, right? Time to start enjoying your life. Since getting rid of MM is proving difficult, start accepting him as he is and life as it is. Accept that you don't want him or what you have any more. Accept that he will not change and that he will insist on maintaining contact. Stop fighting it, stop trying to find new ways to convince him it's over. Just stop and go with the flow. Whatever happens, deal with it then and there and do not let it stress you. YOU have made up your mind that it is over. That's all you can do. You can't control him and how he thinks.

 

While you're doing that, you need to start doing for YOURSELF the kinds of things you like. If you're ultra feminine like me, indulge in some nice shopping. One pretty thing a week. Shoes? Handbag? Diamonds? Clothes? Get a gradual makeover. Then organize a holiday. Do the kind of things that make you feel special, that make you appreciate life. For some people it is hiking in the woods, sailing, etc. For me, it is holidays in exotic places. Go to Prague, Paris, Venice, hey go to Zagreb in Croatia!!! Amazing places. And you could meet some interesting men there...

 

Start living the life you want and I can assure you MM will fade away. Right now you are giving him too much head space and he is a master at playing you. When he sees you change, when in reality your focus shifts from him to a better life in general for yourself, he will slink away like the serpent he is.