A hypothetical about telling the kids

[So happy together]

My bf's daughter found out from her mother after her dad left. She then destroyed his guest house completely. She broke things, she ruined some things of his that can never be replaced.

 

I understand her anger, they've since made peace. She's getting better about his R with me.

 

But that temper... if I had been anywhere near where they were I don't know what would have happened. But I'm not violent. I would not have been the one who ended up in jail. Who ruined her life and dreams of a great career with assault charges on her record.

 

So... my point is violence can happen.

 

Also, she now says after seven months of separation and divorce proceedings nearly completed, that she understands how it was to live with her mother, and that the affair probably shouldn't have occurred but that she understands why it did. And that she's glad he's moved on and will be better off. She has a R with both of her parents. But it is the one wtih her mother that is strained because of her Mom's actions since the separation, and also well before.

[thomasb]

I'm really not trying to be hateful when I say this and maybe I'm wrong, but should the OW just wear a hairshirt and have nowhere free to go to talk about their anguish? This is the place for that. I mean, they're trying to put their feelings aside and think of what is the best situation for WS and the lives of others.

 

I realize it's an anonymous place here. But from what I've read, most (certainly not all) the op here are not the ones to break no contact. Should we be vile and say it's really your fault for not taking his phone away? It isn't, in the slightest.

 

I'm going to make a blanket statement and assume the OP posting on this forum are not the ones who had an affair with your WS...or your father if you aren't a BS. Why do you want to make them feel worse, when many are trying?

 

I'm trying to extricate myself the way that I feel is best for me...and him.

 

I was a wandering husband. I have four sons.

It is not only mine but my wife's place to teach my sons morals and decency. I slipped badly in this concept. My wife never would.

My children have been brought up to never lie, cheat or steal by myself and my wife. I did. Would never do so again, but I did. My sons knew before my wife. If they asked though, they would expect and deserve the truth. Just like we all do. Just like my wife deserved and didn't get from me until I felt sick enough about myself and what I had done to confess and beg forgiveness.

It took a long time to achieve an open, honest relationship with my wife again. Even longer to achieve this with my sons. Good always comes from truth and moral behavior. Says a lot about affairs which are all a bunch of lies and reprehensible deception now doesn't it. Also funny the deceiver is lecturing on it being wrong to tell the truth.

[ComingInHot]

This is the WEIRDEST TOPIC I have ever read. A whole lot of "what ifs"...

 

So are you saying by trying to give the perfect series of events leading to the murder of the OW/OM, that it becomes the fault now of the BS for being honest w/the children who are trying to piece together why one of their parents is acting like a total douche to their other parent and to them (saying they are old enough to understand and feel and see that something isn't right)??

 

A's can end in tragedy. It's one of the consequences of cheating & lying. Sadly, in your "scenario" you're painting TRUTH as the enemy.

The enemy is not the truth and being Honest but the lies & actions of the WS & OW/IN.

 

But ya know, what's Another lie... (I'm being a titch sarcastic with this last line)*

 

The children, depending on age, maturity, understanding & what the may have possibly overheard or read may need to be told the truth W/OUT details. Then counseling for everyone!! WooHoo!! not.

[whichwayisup]

Teasing...you what you can do with that butterfly and..

 

I did spin this off from the gun comment and from not wanting to tell the children. But I was also thinking about two cases in the news lately and how there are "yes, buts" attached to them.

 

Trayvon Martin may have 'thrown the first punch'. Yes, but he didn't deserve to die.

 

Travis Alexander may have been screwing with Jodi Arias' head. Yes, but he didn't deserve to die.

 

Jane Doe may have been screwing a married man. Yes, but,she didnt deserve to die.

 

Add to that, them much older horrifying case of Betty/Dan/Linda Broderick and that's why I created my hypothetical

 

People are capable of many things when pushed past their emotional limit. OW and OM men, not just BS's or BS's children. Though it's rare that a child takes matters into his/her hands when an A is exposed to the extent that you're implying.

[MissBee]

This is the WEIRDEST TOPIC I have ever read. A whole lot of "what ifs"...

 

So are you saying by trying to give the perfect series of events leading to the murder of the OW/OM, that it becomes the fault now of the BS for being honest w/the children who are trying to piece together why one of their parents is acting like a total douche to their other parent and to them (saying they are old enough to understand and feel and see that something isn't right)??

A's can end in tragedy. It's one of the consequences of cheating & lying. Sadly, in your "scenario" you're painting TRUTH as the enemy.

The enemy is not the truth and being Honest but the lies & actions of the WS & OW/IN.

 

But ya know, what's Another lie... (I'm being a titch sarcastic with this last line)*

 

The children, depending on age, maturity, understanding & what the may have possibly overheard or read may need to be told the truth W/OUT details. Then counseling for everyone!! WooHoo!! not.

 

 

Precisely.

 

I see it so many times where everything else but the real issue, i.e. the choice of the WS to engage in an affair, are painted as the culprits for what results because of the affair...and I'm left totally confused as to why something which happens as a reaction is being focused on, instead of the original event which led to that reaction.

Edited July 31, 2013 by MissBee

[Betterthanthis13]

The hypothetical example in the OP suggests the following parenting skills are appropriate for a 13 year old:

 

WS teaches by example: values and ethics: lying, lying by omission, adultery, placing personal desires above your family, the end justifies the means, disrespecting a spouse is fine, marriage vows are worthless, men should always think with their genitals first and foremost, don't worry about doing the right thing if its going to be difficult and you think you can get away with the easier thing that you really want to do

 

BS teaches by keeping the WS activities a secret: everything your dad did is perfectly fine, do as we say not as we do, my feelings are completely unimportant, I do not respect my child enough to teach him any lessons about making good choices in relationships, it's better to not talk about humongous problems and just pretend everything is fine no matter what, it's ok if nothing makes sense or seems logical right now, the most important thing is to keep control over your emotions no matter what the cost

 

I didn't use these particular parenting skills on my kid... I had honest, open discussions with him throughout his teenage years about many topics. I must have missed the parenting book that taught this stuff.

[Lady2163]

You know ....the post by the BS you refer to here...honestly sounded like she was speaking to WS, and AP' s in general. Not as though it were addressed to any particular OW. If felt that way to you though.

 

And I'm Being as kind and sincere here as possible. This stuff is hard to not take personally isn't it? But if we try, we can.

 

Yes it is hard not to take it personally. Many of them have hac some doozies of op in their lives. I'm not one of them. It also seems they are only dogging on the OP. But, I suppose to say what jerks their husbands were would fit in better on the infidelity forum?

 

I also see them avoiding some of the things I've said that may ring true.

 

It's especially painful to me, since I am in the process of ending it. I genuinely like the man. It's been seven years. We've got friendship history. I'm don't the right thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to have fun memories. Someone made a post about awkward or humorous moments and another person jumped in with (paraphrasing) "there's nothing funny or humorous about destroying innocent lives of his wife and children"

 

Sheesh, if not here, then where?

 

The anger they feel toward the OW in their life is brought to this board.

 

The disgust I feel about the married men and women I have known who have been priming the pump for the other spouse to wander is probably on target with their anger. I just want to shake my friends and scream, "don't ignore them, don't withhold sex, don't take them for granted. You don't know what the dating pool is like and I do." Why do people treat each other that way?

 

I had a woman say to me once, "So I haven't wanted to have sex for two years. He married me for better or worse."

 

No I was not sleeping with her husband, but I remember thinking, "someone is".

 

I do not think his children will show up on my door with a gun. Truly, i don't anticipate the affair will even be known. Should his wife call me 20 years from now and accuse me of something, I probably will say, "I beg your pardon, who?"

[LBean]

Yeah, I knew my mother was banging her little weasel boyfriend well before my father figured it out... I was 9. Kids are more perceptive than some people give them credit for.

 

Though I didn't go out and kill the guy, and my uncle owned a gun range, I did hate him. I also lost all respect for my mother. The two of them ripped our family apart. All that and they didn't even end up together.

 

I still love my mother dearly, she's my mom, but I look back on those months and can't help but be filled with disgust and contempt. She was a morally challenged, trashy woman - at the time.

[Spark1111]

Yes, I am the other woman.

 

I'm not speaking as the other woman, when I say"don't tell the children until the dust settles."

 

While it may be a huge conflict of interest, for me to say this, I'm saying it as a human being.

 

It's what I've told friends, acquaintances. In counseling, I usually determined as non threatening as possible, "why" the betrayed spouse wanted to tell. "why" can be very accusatory.

 

No, I don't have kids. Our 30 year old foster child only keeps in touch with me. 14 years later I still don't bash my ex-husband. But, if he cheated (he might have) I've never told her I have my doubts. Shes definitely old enough to handle it. Not the same thing, but my nieces and nephews don't know details either.

 

To not speak poorly of the spouse while divorcing is tough. I truly, sincerely admire the men and women who are able to do it.

 

When the op is a stranger to the child, I just don't see the purpose of telling the child their personal info. Once again...why would you?

 

You see, I read the posts about how the op should lose everything for having an affair with your WS. I don't see as much vitriolic rhetoric toward the wandering spouse - particularly if the bs is staying with the WS.

 

I read things that say the op should lose their spouse, their kids, their job, their standing in the community. Meanwhile the WS, is in for a tough road, too. He is, going to have to earn the respect and trust of spouse and kids again. But they don't have to lose their jobs or homes.

 

I created the hypothetical due to gun violence and the predominant opinion that it is okay to give the children the op personal information.

 

It is a far out hypothetical. I wanted to see if people had their limits as to how far the OP should be punished. I could have accepted, "That's a whacked out butterfly wing hypothetical. Yes, the op did wrong, but they don't deserve to die."

 

Not a lot of "Yes, buts" here.

 

One side note: A 14 year old neighbor used to mow my lawn. I left, he mowed my lawn. I came home, my $500 lawn mower was broken. Two days later I find out it was broken beyond repair. While the John Deere repair truck was here, another neighbor came over to tell me that she didn't want to be involved, she intentionally saw him mow over a big branch numerous times. She showed me the spot and there were branch remnants. When I confronted, his parents took his side and refused to pay even half. When I told him he was fired and banned from my property, he cut loose with words his parents probably hadn't heard. The look of hatred and loss of control made me go by some window/door alarms. I took my dog and left town that night for three days to give him time to cool off.

 

Why? He and his dad hunted. He was on the junior shooting team. He had a gun cabinet in his BEDROOM.

 

So I have a question for you.

 

WHY do you believe the affair partner is owed anonymity after DDAY?

 

Do you not realize the BS, children, friends AND family are obsessed with one question only: WHO was it? Who was the AP?

 

it is the very first question asked, and not politely I may add. WHO COULD DO THIS? IS IT ANYONE. WE. KNOW?

 

YOU have no idea what transpires at DDAY. What the children know, knew, suspected, might or might do pales in comparison to the BS now trying to keep EVERYONE CALM and contained so we can have the necessity of boarding the crazy train and dealing with our own rampaging emotions.

 

Can some spouses go on the warpath and enlist their children as allies in their cause? Of course. Happens during acrimonious divorces NOT related to infidelity ALL the time.

 

But to hold the BS to a higher moral ground than the two affair participants is simply the height of hypocrisy.

 

Don't want to hurt children? Do NOT have an affair with their mother or father, especially if you hypothesize they will not find a gun and kill you because the BS has told them the TRUTH.

[Spark1111]

Do you REALLY believe most MM have affairs because of a lack of sex at home? Not a desire to have a variety of new and different sex with a variety of partners?

 

You are quoting examples to support your affair stance....so, by deduction, that same loveless, frigid spouse will certainly poison the children against their parent, name and identify the OW, and cause possibly a violent gun death against her.

 

Vicious, horrible woman that she is.

 

Yeah, makes perfect sense in the affair triangle hypothetical bubble of delusion and blame.

[thomasb]

Let me tell you a little fact, Lady. The spouses actions or inactions are NOT the cause of an affair. My wife is and has always been the best wife a man could ever have. She has more class in her little fingernail than the OW has in her entire body. And there were no problems in my then four year old marriage. My problem and why I cheated? I was a stupid, drunken 26 year old who made a mistake and figured I would lose my wife anyway and then I would be alone. It took me puking up my guts one night out of guilt, after my wife had done a particularly sweet thing for me to confess. Before I did I told OW to leave me alone it was over. Then sat my wife at the kitchen table and told her.

My oldest, (they are step-sons), came in and my wife was crying. He looked at me and asked if I thought they were all stupid. He was 17 yrs old at the time. My wife worked nights and I was able to hide it from her. But, turns out the boys knew and compared notes pretty damn quick. He told me it was about time I acted like a real man and took the smaller boys to his grands. Hardest day of my life until the day I got the call 6 years later that he was dead. Then I felt even worse that I ever made such a beautiful soul ashamed to call me dad. I have never made that mistake again. Nor will I ever!

[freestyle]

My SO is a sad example of the damage done by NOT telling the kids.

 

His father was a serial cheater.

I guess D-day happened when he was very young.

 

He told me that growing up, there was always this tension in the air between his parents, even though they put on a good show. The 800 pound gorilla in the room that everyone pretended wasn't there.....

 

As he got older, he started to think he was being excluded from something important, that they weren't talking about in front of him---so he presumed that HE must be the problem....For years, and years.........

 

He internalized all of the upset & tension, and assumed it was because he wasn't a good enough kid. He still struggles with self-esteem, at times now, although I try my best to validate him, and build him up.

 

He didn't find out until his early twenties, from his older brother, what had actually happened---he said everything fell into place, then---but he felt defrauded. Like his childhood had been a lie....

 

How on earth could his father presume to lecture & teach him about ethics, & morality---when he hadn't been living by what he was preaching?

 

So leaving the kids perpetually in the dark, when they sense something's wrong can have a lot of fallout, too.

[2sure]

Yes it is hard not to take it personally. Many of them have hac some doozies of op in their lives. I'm not one of them. It also seems they are only dogging on the OP. But, I suppose to say what jerks their husbands were would fit in better on the infidelity forum?

 

I also see them avoiding some of the things I've said that may ring true.

 

It's especially painful to me, since I am in the process of ending it. I genuinely like the man. It's been seven years. We've got friendship history. I'm don't the right thing, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to have fun memories. Someone made a post about awkward or humorous moments and another person jumped in with (paraphrasing) "there's nothing funny or humorous about destroying innocent lives of his wife and children"

 

Sheesh, if not here, then where?

 

The anger they feel toward the OW in their life is brought to this board.

 

The disgust I feel about the married men and women I have known who have been priming the pump for the other spouse to wander is probably on target with their anger. I just want to shake my friends and scream, "don't ignore them, don't withhold sex, don't take them for granted. You don't know what the dating pool is like and I do." Why do people treat each other that way?

 

I had a woman say to me once, "So I haven't wanted to have sex for two years. He married me for better or worse."

 

No I was not sleeping with her husband, but I remember thinking, "someone is".

 

I do not think his children will show up on my door with a gun. Truly, i don't anticipate the affair will even be known. Should his wife call me 20 years from now and accuse me of something, I probably will say, "I beg your pardon, who?"

 

Wha?? The thread is regarding telling the children or not about an affair, correct?

I do understand you are looking for support ending an affair....but, I'm not sure of the direction you're taking .

 

In any event, back on topic ...why the affair happens , like in your example of lack of sex, probably isn't so important to children of any age. I don't think they want to know about intimacy or the lack of it. Children know something is wrong , or they know of an affair...but the reasons why? Probably not.

[Lady2163]

I think many affairs start because of a breakdown in communication and when either spouse starts taking the other for granted.

 

Kudos to Thomas, but in the case where men weren't just...stupid and drunk (or the women) I do think many of the *excuses* or reasons given are the same old standbys.

 

My own affairs started because I was young and didn't have the skills to communicate. We tried marriage counseling and struggled to communicate with him. Looking back, he wasn't very skilled, but we never thought about trying again.

 

I have seen one DDAY as a counselor. I knew spouse was going to confess. Bspouse didnt know that is was going to be a two hour session, but I did. This was years ago, before email and cell phones were prevalent.

 

"who" was it was the third question. When did you have time? Was the first. Why? Was the second.

 

He told her it was Jane, someone he used to work with, she had never met her who had ended the affair and was later transferred. Bspouse did want to know last name, where she had been transferred. He didn't want to tell. I said something along the lines of "let's focus on what he wants to talk about together with you and work up to that."

 

When it is a stranger, I just feel there has the potential to be focused on the wrong issue.

 

I am slightly curious if there are any ow/om here who would like to discuss their telling thier bs and kids. Did I miss a post somewhere?

[2sure]

Yes! There is another thread OW are posting in. I hope it helps you! Same subject matter.

[Lady2163]

I think many affairs start because of a breakdown in communication and when either spouse starts taking the other for granted.

 

Kudos to Thomas, but in the case where men weren't just...stupid and drunk (or the women) I do think many of the *excuses* or reasons given are the same old standbys.

 

My own affairs started because I was young and didn't have the skills to communicate. We tried marriage counseling and struggled to communicate with him. Looking back, he wasn't very skilled, but we never thought about trying again.

 

I have seen one DDAY as a counselor. I knew spouse was going to confess. Bspouse didnt know that is was going to be a two hour session, but I did. This was years ago, before email and cell phones were prevalent.

 

"who" was it was the third question. When did you have time? Was the first. Why? Was the second.

 

He told her it was Jane, someone he used to work with, she had never met her who had ended the affair and was later transferred. Bspouse did want to know last name, where she had been transferred. He didn't want to tell. I said something along the lines of "let's focus on what he wants to talk about together with you and work up to that."

 

When it is a stranger, I just feel there has the potential to be focused on the wrong issue.

 

I am slightly curious if there are any ow/om here who would like to discuss their telling thier bs and kids. Did I miss a post somewhere?

 

 

I screwed up my abbreviations....that should be ww and wh

[Lady2163]

Wrong topic

[cocorico]

My H told his kids about the A during the A. They were teens. He told them that he loved someone else and wanted to leave their mother. They had lived through the previous separation, the failed R, and the worsening daily situation, so it came as somewhat a reliefs to them. After all the dust settled they told him they appreciated his speaking to them about it, treating them as people, with a say in their own future. The first separation had been handled so badly they felt completely pinch drink, out of control and rudderless. Also, they went to family counselling with him to prepare for the transition, so it all went as smoothly as could be hoped.

[Owl]

Do you also tell them that you are arguing with your husband/wife because they won't sleep with you? That does damage to the family, as the parents fight/give silent treatment/divorce.

 

Do you tell them that your child is an only child because "your mother refused to have any more"? That hurts the child, the family dynamic (if the child wanted siblings, or the husband wanted more kids)...

 

There is no reason to discuss your sex life with your children. If you'd like to say "Mom and Dad are having a difficult go of things, we're arguing, or we are trying to sort things" that's one thing, but really? Telling them "Daddy screwed the meter maid" is ridiculous.

 

There's a world of difference between telling them about your sex life, and telling them about why their family dynamic is now changing...why their world is turning upside down.

 

Your argument is in no way similar.

 

And if Daddy didn't want anyone to know about the meter maid...he probably should have just slipped her a nickle instead.

[Spark1111]

There's a world of difference between telling them about your sex life, and telling them about why their family dynamic is now changing...why their world is turning upside down.

 

Your argument is in no way similar.

 

And if Daddy didn't want anyone to know about the meter maid...he probably should have just slipped her a nickle instead.

 

I'm confused.

 

Who, IN THEIR RIGHT MIND, would ever discuss their sex life or lack thereof with their children????

 

That COULD cause them to get a gun and take EVERYONE out.

[Owl]

My H told his kids about the A during the A. They were teens. He told them that he loved someone else and wanted to leave their mother. They had lived through the previous separation, the failed R, and the worsening daily situation, so it came as somewhat a reliefs to them. After all the dust settled they told him they appreciated his speaking to them about it, treating them as people, with a say in their own future. The first separation had been handled so badly they felt completely pinch drink, out of control and rudderless. Also, they went to family counselling with him to prepare for the transition, so it all went as smoothly as could be hoped.

 

Another example of when telling the kids not only didn't cause anyone to be physically assaulted or attacked, but resulted in a positive outcome for them as well.

 

Interesting...Coco and I don't often agree, but on this it makes sense that her H (now) told them so that they could deal with it and work through it.

 

It made sense for my wife to tell in our own situation as well...they weren't stupid, they'd have figured it out quite quickly given the way things were going both before, and after, d-day. Better to hear it from her in the best way she could tell them, with her support and mine, than to let them figure it out when she called from his house in another state.

[road]

I think many kids probably do know anyway. I know when I was 13 my dad was having an affair. He worked away a lot. He was away one week. That morning the post came and I saw my mum open a letter and then just seem odd. She left the room. I looked at the letter (always been nosey - guess that's why I'm a journalist!) It was a poison pen letter saying my dad was sleeping with another woman......Then there were the silent phone calls in the house.

Then when I was 17 and my brother 20 we both guessed independently something was up. We saw our dad at the local phone box (days before mobiles) He would go out early evening always to buy the evening paper when he was home. We looked in his desk. He had letters, photos...

This all had a big affect on me growing up. I never really trusted him after the first incident. I thought how could he do it to my mum? It affected my view of boys as a teenager. I thought they werent to be trusted, they just wanted sex. I was scared of them. Wasn't until I was 19 i had my first boyfriend.....

Affairs do affect the kids even if you think they never knew...

 

 

Also why children must be told. They must be taught that what the WS is doing is wrong.

 

Many kids assume they were the fault that the marriage is over. Denying them the truth the blame themselves for the divorce.

 

Their thinking goes only if I could be the perfect kid my parents would stay together.

 

The child should never think that they contributed to the failed marriage.

 

The burden of taking on such a blame must never be placed on a child.

 

Telling the truth will protect the child. It will place the blame on the WS were it belongs.

 

To those that like true stories. Two strapping young men found out their mom was cheating. Their dad did not know. These two sons went and saw the OM.

 

The told the OM that the affair was over now.

 

OM ran for the hills never to be heard from again.