How Involved were the Kids?

[MissBee]

I dont see it as all that bad, its been a handful of times in parks, playgyms, etc. very casual. I also feel conflicted and unsure due to the mass opinion being against my thinking.

 

Alright.

 

So you only feel conflicted because other people are against it? Not sure if that is a true conflict. Example: I said I felt weird about my exAP sending me pics with him and his child or when he'd put his son on the phone, this was my own feeling it was inappropriate and I didn't need anyone else's weighing in for me to feel like that.

 

Are there boundaries you wouldn't cross with the children? Just curious about what your personal boundaries are in the situation.

[LilGirlandOW]

Although I dont call him daddy. but in googling that so much of it applies..

 

many little find themselves to be a princess, they revel in their ability to have no, or very little, responsibilities; but get to enjoy all of the perks of being a fully sexual being with someone who loves them beyond what most can fathom.

 

And finally, I guess it is so much easier to define what a little isn’t than what it truly is. However, to me a little girl is an adult consenting submissive who longs for the protection, support, reliability, trust, and loving care provided by a strong and positive dominate partner. Littles are playful but subordinate to their Daddy figure, in much the same way a child is toward a parent or authority figure. The Daddy does his best to guide, teach and nurture their behavior toward a positive choice and a positive relationship. He does all of this because he cherishes his little girl and wants only the best for her.

 

There is no greater gift than the submission of a little girl, Daddy Doms are very fortunate. To see her play dress up just for you; have her appear in that naughty school girl skirt, or just be wearing one of your old t-shirts in the morning with nothing else.

 

But yes not a BDSM relationship

[jlola]

I think the "why" is that in her A fantasy world, this highly inappropriate relationship with MMs kids is further validation and justification that they are meant to be. See how well I get along with them! See even THEY think we make a great couple! His W can't even be bothered to be warm & loving like I am!

 

I don't think that this is necessarily a deliberate manipulation by Lil, but in this fogginess, it seems like she is thriving off her relationship with his kids and at the same time, demonizing the BS. All of it helping to rationalize the A.

 

I cannot understand the lack of common sense between Lil and MM. Do they think if the children get to know Lil and if they end up together all will be rosy?

 

My father had an affair with my mother's best friend. she had no children and we adored her like an aunt. She and her husband would spoil us and take us places. We even went on family trips together.

 

All of the sudden, BFF and husband divorced and we never saw her again. We would ask my mother what happened to BFF and she would just say they grew apart. When I was a teenager I found out the truth. Again, from a relative. I felt shocked,hurt and betrayed. How dare she stand there and make a fool of my other and us. My father is a lowlife and his behavior is expected. But for her to stoop as low as him was a huge betrayal.

 

 

We never saw OW/BFF again. But I would have not spoken an word to her and acted like she was a non-person to me.

 

You see, it is easier to forgive someone who does not know you, than someone who does. Had my father ended up with her,much as we once loved her, we would have now grown to despise her. Not because she took my father away. But because our mother was our concern. and to come at us and behave as though she loved us while backstabbing us all was beyond comprehension.

 

You and MM do not know what damage you are causing by involving the children. One day mother will be told and all hell will break lose.

 

The children will realize the sick game you played with them involved(let's pretend we are a family. Let's get them to love me even if I am helping to betray their mother)

 

lil,would you like it if you had a husband and he was going around with your kids and OW? Would you like it if OW was going to your children's functions? What is the purpose? So you two can continue your fantasy of "happy family"?

[MissBee]

Whose idea was it to have her around the children? Did she hesitate the first time? In this instance they both have awful boundaries. Does he ever correct her? Does he just encourage her?

 

These are definitely questions which are germane to the topic...doesn't seem MM has any issues with it whatsoever...

 

I wonder if MW behave similarly? Thus far no MW has responded or OM to say his MW let him do this, but I suppose it is a different dynamic, and I can see where men play on many women's love for children/babies/seeing them being nurturing, so may subconsciously use the kids to score points, hence you see more MM having their OW fraternize with the kids, whereas a woman, even while neck deep in the A, may not feel the need to introduce the kids to OM or have him hang with them, as perhaps she is more protective OR it doesn't make a difference to an OM and tug at his heart in the same way so she doesn't think it will score her more points.

[MissBee]

Yes, I honestly believed he was going to be around forever. I believed every word he told me. I was completely in love and believed him when he told me he was too. This man could charm me like no other person ever could and still can. He knew how protective I am of my kids. Thats been my biggest source of anger since all this. He swore he'd be there and he wanted to be part of their lives.

 

I'm sorry about that.

 

I do understand the power of charm and falling in love...these days though, esp re children, no way Jose am I banking on how I feel without the evidence to prove it, when it comes on to my children.

 

I hope that anger helps you to get to the other side though!

[Lady2163]

Although I dont call him daddy. but in googling that so much of it applies..

 

many little find themselves to be a princess, they revel in their ability to have no, or very little, responsibilities; but get to enjoy all of the perks of being a fully sexual being with someone who loves them beyond what most can fathom.

 

And finally, I guess it is so much easier to define what a little isn’t than what it truly is. However, to me a little girl is an adult consenting submissive who longs for the protection, support, reliability, trust, and loving care provided by a strong and positive dominate partner. Littles are playful but subordinate to their Daddy figure, in much the same way a child is toward a parent or authority figure. The Daddy does his best to guide, teach and nurture their behavior toward a positive choice and a positive relationship. He does all of this because he cherishes his little girl and wants only the best for her.

 

There is no greater gift than the submission of a little girl, Daddy Doms are very fortunate. To see her play dress up just for you; have her appear in that naughty school girl skirt, or just be wearing one of your old t-shirts in the morning with nothing else.

 

But yes not a BDSM relationship

 

So many people are against what Lil and MM are doing with the children, I was trying to explain "why" she thinks it's all right. If my theory is right, it's complicated.

 

It's a lot like asking someone 'are you a friend of Bill W's?' and understanding more about them from their answer.

 

While not officially bdsm, probably nothing Lil says will surprise me, because I believe they have a version of it to their relationship.

 

I wasnt trying to do a hijack, just explain, that her mindset is probably going to be VERY different than many people here.

[MissBee]

So even though I was so little at the time it stayed in my head and when I was old enough I was able to take my memories of that night combined with other things I had overheard people saying and put it all together on my own. Do not underestimate children. Even if they are very little they are aware of their environment and even if they can't understand exactly what's going on, they will remember and understand later.

 

Indeed!

 

I realized throughout my entire childhood, I had memories of things my dad did which I later realized were him cheating. Don't bring your kids around your affair partner for an evening out or any such thing I say...it's just poor taste. But like your mom's bf, I just don't think these men esp are thinking anything about it and see it as no big deal or a chance to show how "wonderful a dad" they are.

[JustJoe]

Speaking from the kids perspective, I would say that any involvement between the AP's and the kids of the marriages is an iffy proposition , at best, and only gets worse the older the kids are. In the example of my Mom's affair, she and the OM tried to "blend" our families together. A truly stupid idea.

[veryhappy]

Did you meet the kids? Where? how?

No.

Did you speak to them?

No.

Were you sent pictures of them?

Yes.

Did you go to their events?

No.

How comfortable were you with interacting with or being involved in any aspect of their lives?

Answers in bold. I was comfortable offering advice about what was going on with them (that I'm sure the wife wouldn't have appreciated). One of the kids was given more attention than the other one and it was evident from the outside, but for some reason they were stuck into this pattern of treating one child better and giving him more time, attention and everything. I tried to make him see how serious this was for the other child.

[findingnemo]

Since there have been several threads about telling the kids after the fact about an affair, I was curious about how involved you were as an OW/OM with the kids of your MM/MW while the affair was going on?

 

Did you meet the kids? Where? how?

 

Did you speak to them?

 

Were you sent pictures of them?

 

Did you go to their events?

 

How comfortable were you with interacting with or being involved in any aspect of their lives?

 

I never met the kids. XMM once had me speak to one of them on the phone. I couldn't say no without us seeming awkward. After this I told him that it was disrespectful.

 

I have no pictures of them, have never been to their events (why would anyone do that anyway?)

 

I do know A LOT about them. I know how well or badly they did in school at certain points. I know about their pets and the sports clubs they are involved in. I know what they've accomplished in terms of awards and medals. I know of times when they were ill or when the daughter had a bad fallout with her best friend.

 

What I know is a result of being emotionally close to xMM. Whatever was on his mind at the time, he discussed with me. Or so it seemed. When he was happy about something one of the kids had done, he told me. When he was worried, he told me. I even knew about his W and her health issues or about certain accomplishments of hers. So I was involved to the extent that it affected xMM's thoughts but never to the extent of physically interacting with them.

 

I think that other people's children should be a no-go area.

[cocorico]

Since there have been several threads about telling the kids after the fact about an affair, I was curious about how involved you were as an OW/OM with the kids of your MM/MW while the affair was going on?

 

Did you meet the kids? Where? how?

 

Did you speak to them?

 

Were you sent pictures of them?

 

Did you go to their events?

 

How comfortable were you with interacting with or being involved in any aspect of their lives?

 

I've known several people who introduce every love interest to their kids (dating Rs, not As in particular) and I've seen how disruptive it is for the kids to bond with someone new, only to have that person vanish from their lives due to factors beyond their control. So, to me, you only involve kids at the point where the R is established, long-term, and where the possibility of the kids maintaining a post-R R of their own with the person is possible, were they to want that.

 

So, I did not meet his kids during the A, only once he had left.

 

I did speak to them, and chat to them, on IRC and txt, during the latter part of the A, at their request, after he'd told them about me and they knew he planned to leave the BW.

 

Yes, I was sent pictures of them. They were shown pictures of me.

 

I only went to their events once we were all living together. It would have been inappropriate before, as we hadn't met.

 

I felt comfortable interacting with them in the lead up to his leaving, since we all planned to live together and it was only reasonable for them to want to get to know me a little before we lived together.

[LilGirlandOW]

My MM is not a pedophile and we have had many talks about introducing the kids to us as a couple if I'm still single when he and BS seperate. He is very logical on that topic and we both agreed its something we would do VERY slowly. And when he had his kids it would be their quality time together.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Lets just assume for a moment that Lil's AP' s wife is asexual. Lets just say she is a slob, never cooks, listens to country music loud and watches Jerry springer.

 

She is still the mother of those children.

 

So your Child's best friend's mom and family are being harmed by what you are doing (of course he is culpable too, but that's for another thread).

 

So lets just say, for the sake of argument that he leaves his wife tomorrow.

 

The wife knows its you.

 

The kids know or will know when you start hanging out what's what.

 

The best friend will rememnber thinking her father has a crush on you and will feel involved and responsible for the separation.

 

The best friend will, as children do, share this with your child. Likely be very angry with you and probably her. Will likely tell other kids at the school etc, etc.

 

Your child will need to take your side, because while you are a OW, and contributing to distructive behaviors etc. you are HER mother.

 

Your child feels the same way about you at her friend feels about her mother.

 

So...it's not a stretch at all to see this as being harmful to your own child...as well as his. All by your hand.

[bentleychic]

listens to country music loud

 

 

That's definitely a deal breaker right there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Sorry, couldn't help it.)

[Lady2163]

Lets just assume for a moment that Lil's AP' s wife is asexual. Lets just say she is a slob, never cooks, listens to country music loud and watches Jerry springer.

 

Great moment of levity.

 

I do feel like we're picking on Lil a bit.

 

I get what she is saying now. I originally thought she was 20 or 22 at the most. Her emotional maturity, emotional intelligence is a bit delayed.

 

That doesn't mean, she isn't getting everything done in her life. She could be a great mother, managing her money well, a fabulous employee. I have to tell you, she is probably a fun friend to be around.

 

I run my own business, I will pay my house off way early. My aging relatives depend on me. I have grown up responsibilities and manage the seriousness in my life very well.

 

I am in my 40s, yet I would put my emotional maturity between 27-32. The reason for that is because I never had kids, I've been single for 14 years and I've not had a boss for 10 years or so. I love to play board games and video games. I'm often self-conscious when I wait in line at the Pacman machine at those pizza arcade places. I'm already looking to "borrow" a friends child for Finding Nemo 2.

 

Lil genuinely believes her child is having a good time with mm children. And I don't doubt they are having fun at the park. But in her thought process, her maturity process, she can't quite she fathom the consequences from a fall out.

 

Once again Lil, I don't think you're a bad person. You may have actually hesitated before the first time you intermingled your children. I *think* if you ever voiced a concern, mm told you very soothingly, that is was fine, it was okay. From that point on, because Daddy said it was fine, your fears, doubts and worries were gone. Daddy took care of the problem, there isn't any fallout to concern myself with.

[Silly_Girl]

He didn't have kids. I knew deep down that it was a boundary I couldn't cross. And I remember when he said he didn't have kids thinking 'if I find out you do you'll regret lying to me!!!'.

 

But he didn't. Because they didn't have a sex life and she was not keen on looking at other options.

[MissBee]

Lil genuinely believes her child is having a good time with mm children. And I don't doubt they are having fun at the park. But in her thought process, her maturity process, she can't quite she fathom the consequences from a fall out.

 

Once again Lil, I don't think you're a bad person. You may have actually hesitated before the first time you intermingled your children. I *think* if you ever voiced a concern, mm told you very soothingly, that is was fine, it was okay. From that point on, because Daddy said it was fine, your fears, doubts and worries were gone. Daddy took care of the problem, there isn't any fallout to concern myself with.

 

Seems to be the only thing that makes sense.

[JustJoe]

Lets just assume for a moment that Lil's AP' s wife is asexual. Lets just say she is a slob, never cooks, listens to country music loud and watches Jerry springer.

 

Great moment of levity.

 

I do feel like we're picking on Lil a bit.

 

I get what she is saying now. I originally thought she was 20 or 22 at the most. Her emotional maturity, emotional intelligence is a bit delayed.

 

That doesn't mean, she isn't getting everything done in her life. She could be a great mother, managing her money well, a fabulous employee. I have to tell you, she is probably a fun friend to be around.

 

I run my own business, I will pay my house off way early. My aging relatives depend on me. I have grown up responsibilities and manage the seriousness in my life very well.

 

I am in my 40s, yet I would put my emotional maturity between 27-32. The reason for that is because I never had kids, I've been single for 14 years and I've not had a boss for 10 years or so. I love to play board games and video games. I'm often self-conscious when I wait in line at the Pacman machine at those pizza arcade places. I'm already looking to "borrow" a friends child for Finding Nemo 2.

 

Lil genuinely believes her child is having a good time with mm children. And I don't doubt they are having fun at the park. But in her thought process, her maturity process, she can't quite she fathom the consequences from a fall out.

 

Once again Lil, I don't think you're a bad person. You may have actually hesitated before the first time you intermingled your children. I *think* if you ever voiced a concern, mm told you very soothingly, that is was fine, it was okay. From that point on, because Daddy said it was fine, your fears, doubts and worries were gone. Daddy took care of the problem, there isn't any fallout to concern myself with.

I agree with your post, Lady, but boy is Lil in for it, big time. I have never heard of "blended " families being very successful. IN my own familie's case, the attempt to blend the families, lead to the end of the affair and the ruin of both families.

[Whisper Quiet]

I'm a little late posting here, but xMM sent me pictures of the kids and grand kids. Random photos. Photos of family events. Holidays. Graduation. Kids with their bf/gf...

 

He discussed the kids trials and tribulations with me. Even texted me repeatedly with photos when one of the kids got in to a bit of legal trouble during the wee hours of the morning. (Was not thrilled about this -- I had to work the next day.) When I asked him how BS was handling the scrape with the law, he told me she did not know yet. He did not wake her during the event, but waited until the next morning to tell her.

[MissBee]

I'm a little late posting here, but xMM sent me pictures of the kids and grand kids. Random photos. Photos of family events. Holidays. Graduation. Kids with their bf/gf...

 

He discussed the kids trials and tribulations with me. Even texted me repeatedly with photos when one of the kids got in to a bit of legal trouble during the wee hours of the morning. (Was not thrilled about this -- I had to work the next day.) When I asked him how BS was handling the scrape with the law, he told me she did not know yet. He did not wake her during the event, but waited until the next morning to tell her.

 

So how did you feel about it? Awkward? Special? Like it was inappropriate?

[Silly_Girl]

So how did you feel about it? Awkward? Special? Like it was inappropriate?

 

"Leading the witness, your honour..."

 

[Whisper Quiet]

Awkward, yes. Inappropriate, yes. Not special. Then and more so now, I feel it was just designed draw me in and manipulate me. At the time I could not see that, now it is painfully clear.

 

Over time, many many discoveries pointed to this.

[Whisper Quiet]

Leading the witness, your honour..."

:laugh:

[MissBee]

Awkward, yes. Inappropriate, yes. Not special. Then and more so now, I feel it was just designed draw me in and manipulate me. At the time I could not see that, now it is painfully clear.

 

Over time, many many discoveries pointed to this.

 

Well hindsight is 20/20 as they say .

[ComingInHot]

Our children were as involved as I was Before exow outed the "ended"A to me. Daddy was Never around (although he touted being father of the year...). When he came home he was detached w/them & they felt it, even at 8 & 5 years old. H had zero relationship w/his son (and daughter)& is just in the past year building a relationship founded on Time, love & respect. H would come home pissy then after kids went to bed would be totally romantic w/me but could never be bothered w/anything family/home life related.

It was a HORRIBLE time for our children and me!

After the A was outed, it fell during a time when we were in process of moving out of state. Daddy did not join us. He wasn't "invited".

I demanded he "go & be w/exow" we'd be just fine, and I would Not be one to "interfere" or prevent his happiness w/exow or his children.

Exow was divulging a pregnancy to me & I told her all babies are blessings and I'd be happy to have "their" child over to get to know his/her half siblings. (it would, of course be w/out her presence... Hey, I can only go so far*).

 

H pleaded for 6 or so weeks for a second chance. Exow pleaded for H to at least meet w/her (he refused to see her).

 

The children asked why daddy wasn't here. I explained only that we were having some issues and there was a-lot of hurt involved (which they agreed & felt too). I then explained that no matter what the outcome, they were Greatly Loved and that would NEVER change!!

They were good with this as they had No relationship at this point w/their father & frankly didn't much care for the way he had been treating them.