I think i figured out why...

[happy stillmore]

This is crazy long but I had a Eureka! moment.

 

First, let me say I am not a psychologist but I play one on tv. I have been running things over and over in my mind trying to figure my situation out. My situation being: unhappy in marriage, met xMM, saw him for a year when Dday, Couple months later, I initiated NC, 2 months later, xMM contacted me and we have been seeing each other for almost another two more years. I was happy but not 100% happy due to the constraints of the relationship. BS forbade him to leave the house alone and he was not able to text freely. Basically, I saw him for one lunch hour every week and spent the day together every 6 weeks or so. We did text a lot when he wasn't watched over by BS. I finally had to walk away when I needed xMM to stand up to xBS and he didn't. I am able to leave the house alone as my H and I are trying to live separate lives while living in the same house due to our finances. It is not like we are swingers. I don't flaunt or talk about my relationship with xMM to H. He just doesn't ask. Throughout my situation, I couldn't put my finger on it but something was not right with xMM and BS's marriage. I think I figured it out.

 

She is co-dependent! I came across an article and it is her to the letter. She is a textbook co-dependent wife. She was so controlling in every aspect of his life. Literally, picks his outfits and packs his lunch. Drives him to work. Calls him several times a day. I always thought he was a gentle soul and was easy-going. What I realize now is that he had been programmed after 30 years of marriage to be dependent on her. She always knew the passwords to every email or Facebook account he had. She made all of his decisions, paid the bills, did everything around him. Whatever he wanted, she would get him even though they were debt. He was a co-dependent's dream. He was from out of town, has no family here. He depends on her for all social life (which he is pretty much a loner). He financially depends on her. He can't survive on his own. I'm thinking she would chew his food if he let her. She would read her daughter's text on their phones. She found the phone xMM used for me and spent five hours figuring out the password. She read all of our texts.

 

What I learned about co-dependents: often grow up in a dysfunctional home (her father was an alcoholic), learn to suppress their emotions, eventually lose their sense of self and hate themselves, they fear abandonment and will do everything to keep someone there. Their actions are not true love, all actions are to manipulate those around them to stay, they bend over backwards in hopes you thank them for all they do even though you never asked them to do those things. They are pleasers to a point where they don't exist anymore. They only feel loved when they feel needed. That is why they seek partners with problems or weak so the partner can depend on them. They love to care for others and secretly hope they don't ever get 100% better because they just might leave them. When there is a threat of the partner leaving, she manipulates the partner and environment to hinder the person from leaving. They often resort to irrational behavior if left to no other options. They often deny there is a problem and won't confront the partner in fear he gets upset enough to leave.

 

I can rattle off so many examples that clearly support my diagnosis. (Having her daughter pick up the phone, her trying to give me advice?!, her bullying xMM to get my info, her passive-aggressive behavior, sending me friend requests, sending me texts about how she hates herself, how she slept in bed with her daughter while she cried herself to sleep, daughter 18 at the time, hovered over xMM, guilted xMM about hurting the girls, hid the affair for the last year from the girls so they wouldn't hate him anymore and make him leave. Oh yeah! The co-dependent does not see her partner as doing anything wrong! BS thought it was all me. He was the one that contacted me after we broke up the first time. The thing that really struck me is that she has known we have been seeing each other for the last two years. She acted like it wasn't happening. It did blow up once when we went on a real date once last summer while she was away(rare). Of course, she called (5x) and I heard the whole conversation. She threatened to call my house. XMM stood up to her (this one time) and told her he loved me. One day, she dropped him off at work because as usual, he isn't allowed to drive himself, can't be trusted, she noticed he wasn't wearing his work does. Dead giveaway that we were spending the day together. When she picked him up, she texted me and said she didn't "approve"of what we did. Like she was our mother. It all makes sense to me now. I would have divorced my H at that point. She didn't, she clung on harder.

 

Now I'm going to diagnose him. Ha ha. He is a conflict-avoidant person himself. Never talked politics. Probably explains why he had the affair. He couldn't stand to be controlled anymore but didn't have the guts to tell her. I believe she controlled when they had sex as well. I am wondering now whether he chose to stay with her because he knows even though she tries to control things, she is a doormat. He is not a big decision maker either. It would often be me that organized things. He didn't even carry a wallet! Only cash that she would take out. I made the final decision in the end like my gut told me all along that I would. Now that I think about all this, it is crazy, isn't it?

 

I wish I had figured this out before NC and could ask him some questions. I did however tell him that it was not normal for a 52 year old man to not stand up for himself. He never could answer me when I asked him a zillion times, why he follows her rules. I wonder if he is embarrassed now because I am the only one who ever got close to him to see this. He is really a boy. A 22 year old boy whose emotional growth stopped when he married his wife 30 years ago. I'm doing myself a favor. Though I loved him, I am afraid I would be taking care of him. Who wants that?!

 

Do you want to hear another crazy thing? I seriously had thoughts of emailing articles about co-dependency to him so he can see the reasons behind her actions. He is gullible and believes she loves him so much. What he doesn't realize is her actions are due to anxiety, to fear of losing him. She can't bear to be alone. He said it would kill her if he left and it probably would! What I also learned is the players in the co-dependency game don't love each other. They resent each other underneath but both don't know how to live without the other. I told xMM I felt used because I think he knew all along he couldn't leave. He is too dependent on her. I thought of enlightening them so perhaps they could have a happier marriage. I am off my rocker, I know. In a secret way, I hope they remain unhappy in a way. I am going to keep my theory to myself. It is hard to believe they do not see how they would be happier apart. They would both be whole people inside out. I know xMM loved me but just didn't have the courage (or lazy) to leave what he knows and how to stand on his own. I wonder if he is happy or relieved with his life now. The pressure is off. He can coast through life now and be taken care of.

 

I am going to end this novel with a twist. I am wondering if I have some of those co-dependent traits myself. I had questions all along but was afraid to ask for fear I would say something to upset him. I didn't want to come out and imply he was a coward, even though that was what I was thinking. I enabled him to continue to see me. He wasn't the one that stood up to BS (except once) in order to see me. It was always me who met him for lunch. He had to use sick days without her knowing. For too long, I put up with this arrangement until I realized I deserved more. He was the sweetest man but that was only in one plane of my life. I need a man in all aspects of my life. It would be a miracle if he somehow found the courage and lived independently.

 

Call me Dr. Freud.

Edited July 31, 2013 by happy stillmore

[happy stillmore]

Okay, I just re-read my post. I can see how one can look at my post and think I am choosing to see their marriage in a bad light. Like I'm distorting things to suit me. I don't know. It works for me. I admit I can be off-base with my theories. BS probably does love him and is afraid to be alone. I failed to mention xMM did have an affair before me. He thought it was love (but it was a "good time" for the xAP). He was heartbroken when BS scared her away.

 

Also, it is interesting to add that during one of my conversations with BS, she was in despair saying "nobody can care for him like I do." She made me promise to take good care of him! That is a trademark of the co-dependent, to put the other.s needs ahead of their, irrationally. I even asked xMM, is there something I should know? Do you need to be taken care of? He denied that he did. Strange.

[Lady2163]

Okay, Sigmund you,may be right...and you may not.

 

Since I don't know everything like you do, I am guessing.

 

He was born in 1961. His parents were born in late 1930's or early 1940's. Assuming it was an intact home, he was raised that this is what wives do. I'm assuming his wife does not work outside the home?

 

In a timeline sense XMM and BS could either go the way of a 1950s household OR they could embrace the newer model of thinking.

 

Modern women often think men like that are lazy and useless. Modern women don't usually put up with that shyt.

 

By the old standards, a wife is supposed to cook, clean, pack the lunch, take care of clothes, buy all toiletries (restock them without being told as well), run errands, get groceries and essentially take care of all the little stuff so he doesn't have to. I bet she is the one who buys, signs and mails birthday cards or presents for his sister (insert any of his family here). She probably does 99% of the Christmas shopping, he may buy 1-2 gifts for the children, but she probably buys them and puts his name on them.

 

His job is to bring home the bacon, take care of the yard, and take the garbage to the curb...preferably maybe with or without being told every time. If he is at all handy, he fixes things around the house. If not, his idea of fixing a problem is to tell her it's broken, then walk away. A few days later it is magically fixed, he took care of that, by Golly! He doesn't have problems since his wants and needs are predicted and catered to.

 

He doesn't need to carry a wallet. The elves magically make food and daily use items appear. All his materialistic day to day wants are right in front of him.

 

Now, one last thing...you know to take anything you've heard from MM, BS and daughter with a grain of salt, right? They all have an agenda and for two out of three that was removing you from their lives, by any verbal means necessary.

 

Don't believe it unless you see it. Some things you have seen. Most of what you say translates to me as good, old fashioned wifeness (yuck).

 

I don't know how long he's been in town, but if you liked him, probably so did others. He could have made friends if he wanted to.

 

But I still haven't figured the car thing out yet. It could be control. It isn't saving gas. Is parking free and/or difficult?

[happy stillmore]

Thanks for giving me an objective opinion. It helps as I am a little twisted myself right now about things. Okay, to classify some things:

 

His wife is the breadwinner. Makes 90k/year. He makes 30k. Not that money makes a difference in a person's self worth. His inability to afford to live on his own is a barrier for him to be independent. He does not spend money. She spends money. She buys things for the girls after an argument. They are in great debt due to putting three girls through private school. Her choice, not his. She has said to him that she would help him make a life with me. I knew that was a lie. I never believed she would. I believe she was manipulating him into thinking she would do anything for him to be happy (although that is a co dependent statement there). She said that to have him believe she truly wanted him to be happy, but underneath I'm sure she could not handle that.

 

He has been in town 30+ years. He is a funny guy and would never say anything bad or rude to you. He is kind of an introvert. Prefers to research for writing a book. Anytime, he goes out of the house, she is with him or one of the girls. He can't go for a walk himself.

 

She had to drive an extra 50 minutes round trip to his place of employment. The crazy thing is they still are paying $90/month for a parking lot lease. He was driving when we at the beginning of our relationship. She stopped that after D day.

Edited July 31, 2013 by happy stillmore

[sadwithouthim]

Are you saying she doesn't let him drive anymore since DDay?

[TaraMaiden]

Who cares?

Does it really matter?

The fact is, he's still with her, and not with you.

 

No amount of speculation, educated guessing, psychological dissection, analysis or theorising will change that.

 

Don't 'over-think' things, you'll tie yourself in emotional Gordian knots.

 

Cut it out, cut it off and be free in your own mind, to not give a damn one way or the other.

 

[happy stillmore]

He is not allowed to drive by himself to go anywhere. Someone (wife or one of the daughters) had to be with him.He no longer can drive himself to work and park in the leased parking lot.

[happy stillmore]

Tara,

That does comes to my mind. What difference does it make? He chose to stay there. It is actually for the best. If that is what he wants, a mother, he can have it. I want an equal.

 

I have to just Stop thinking about it. Easier said than done.

Edited July 31, 2013 by happy stillmore

[Betterthanthis13]

I think he couldn't answer you why he didn't "stand up to her" because...he likes his situation. Obviously, that's not what you want to hear. I am sorry he is dragging you through all this.

 

I think he is brilliant. He doesn't have to make a lot of money, or pay bills, or cook, or drive himself, or do anything remotely involving adult responsibility, and has 24/7 attention from two women competing for his affection. He plays the helpless baby and all the ladies come running to save him and coddle him and clean up his mess. And they both want him so bad they will fight and bicker over him! Why on earth would he want to change anything about that? So he can have half as many women and have to grow up and be a big boy? This strategy worked during the first affair, and it's working again. Each time he gets more attention! If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[happy stillmore]

Yes, Alexandria, that is exactly what I was saying. The fact that I wanted to email what I thought was the situation made me realize I was co-dependent too! The BW did tell the girls at D day. She would tell me how the girls cried themselves to sleep. I, of course, felt terrible. What I meant to say in my ramblings is that two years after dday, the girls thought I was out if the picture because everyone is afraid to ask. BW denied everything. What they saw was their father always at home. How could their father still have a relationship when he is always at home?

 

You were right on about me. There is also a lot to support the same for his wife. You would have to hear the conversations I had to understand. The point I was trying to make with reading the texts and having access to all of his email accounts is that co-dependents often gather all the information needed in order to control the situation. But, I realize I would do the same too in her situation. Again, I am trying to reason this all out in my head so I can finally let it go.

 

I am driving myself crazy overthinking things. I wish I had answers to my questions. I have to accept that I won't. I think I have a general assessment of the situation. Maybe not 100%, but close. XMM may possibly be a narcissist after all.

 

I do have to say I have not contacted at all. I have been strong. As much as I want answers, I still won't contact him. I have to move on.

Edited July 31, 2013 by happy stillmore

[Goodbye]

I say spend less time thinking about her. Seriously. Maybe she is co-dependent, maybe he is programmed to be controlled by her. Regardless, he is a grown man, and is staying with her...not standing up for you. Just end it. Be done.

[Goodbye]

He is not allowed to drive by himself to go anywhere. Someone (wife or one of the daughters) had to be with him.He no longer can drive himself to work and park in the leased parking lot.

 

 

Sorry, but what a loser. Seriously.

[Spark1111]

Isn't it possible he is both co-dependent AND passive aggressive?

 

Isn't it possible she WAS willing to set him up and he reneged?

 

Isn't it possible that he has asked for total transparency and they as a family have decided he gets driven EVERYWHERE so that he can be trusted again?

 

The fact that he still texts you sounds to me that he is enjoying rebelling against his mean and controlling mommy( wife) but is also enjoying all her attention and control as they attempt to reconcile once again.

 

Or, is her hyper vigilance due to the fact that he has done this before?

 

Are you sure you have been his only affair?

 

The man is screaming for attention in any sick, diabolical, even being driven everywhere by daughters....kind of way, don't cha think happy?

 

Stop feeding into his childish rebellion and hit delete, delete, delete on his texts.

[Pierre]

His wife is the breadwinner. Makes 90k/year. He makes 30k.

 

His inability to afford to live on his own is a barrier for him to be independent.

 

And you wonder why he stays?

 

And now has two women doing stuff for him. Even a private psychoanalist. Just kidding!

 

What is OM supposed to do? 30k versus 90k, no contest. How much do you make?

 

His wife is controlling and insecure. If he made 90 k and she 30k the wife could not control as effectively.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Pierre

[2sure]

Your situation with your BS and the situation you described with your MMs marriage...sounds very similar in a couple of ways.

 

You cannot leave because of finances. Your MM cannot leave because of finances. So, whose fault is that in both cases?

 

Your husband knows about but doesnt ask about your affair partner.

Your MMs wife knows about the affair and ..what? asks?

 

You are both big time enabling him to get all of his needs met by others , and not having to do a thing for himself including make a decision or think.

 

As far as Im concerned every one can be diagnosed with something.

[Spark1111]

Your situation with your BS and the situation you described with your MMs marriage...sounds very similar in a couple of ways.

 

You cannot leave because of finances. Your MM cannot leave because of finances. So, whose fault is that in both cases?

 

Your husband knows about but doesnt ask about your affair partner.

Your MMs wife knows about the affair and ..what? asks?

 

You are both big time enabling him to get all of his needs met by others , and not having to do a thing for himself including make a decision or think.

 

As far as Im concerned every one can be diagnosed with something.

 

I am TOTALLY with 2sure on this one.

 

If you stop being the avenue he uses to rebel against the UberAlpha wife....the one he definitely LOVES being controlled by on some level....because of the attention she now pays to him....I predict he will settle comfortably into her control BUT milk it for all that it is worth ( see; daughters driving him everywhere)

 

Everyone is where they choose to be, even a man who uses women to get attention from that highly successful, over-controlling, domineering wife....

 

happy.....I think you are a pawn in his revenge and anger about the wife who doesn't even have him on her radar....until now....most likely convinced by those daughters to give him another chance and we will help!

 

Bow out gracefully darling....and leave them to their own patholgies. You are sweet and kind and being played to bolster his weak ego and need for attention....from HER.

[Lady2163]

Tara,

That does comes to my mind. What difference does it make? He chose to stay there. It is actually for the best. If that is what he wants, a mother, he can have it. I want an equal.

 

I have to just Stop thinking about it. Easier said than done.

 

My own opinion is because we (ow/om) can't talk about the end of our relationships freely with friends and family, we do have a tendency to "why" ourselves to distraction and obsession.

 

You have a lot to process. Work it out, post it out.

 

But also start thinking how you can change or alter your life.

[whatatangledweb]

I could live off 30k a year. It might not be a lavish lifestyle but if I was truly miserable and "In Love" with someone else......30k would do just fine.

 

Finances = piss poor excuse.

 

He's a cake eater.

 

If you want to analyze his wife you have to take out her behaviour after she found out about the affair. I know many BS including myself became totally different people for quite some time after finding out. Doing things we would never do before.

[whatatangledweb]

Sorry did not mean to quote you Beenkilled