MM/MW not sleeping w/ BS a "myth"

[ladydesigner]

Am I the only one this didn't make any sense to? If you are so picky and want exclusivity in your relationship, you would never start up with a MM in the first place. Andthe "honesty" part, you just want the honesty to be to you. Who cares who else he lies to.

 

Sorry, but I can never understand this line of thinking. It is ok if the person is a thief, a liar, a con man. I am fine with that. As long as it is not done to me?

This is exactly what is wrong with society. It's all about ME! Who cares if the people I hang with have low character.

 

Are people actually raising kids with these sort of values? "Well dear, I know your BFF is a backstabber and basically steals from his parent,lies to them,manipulates them and disrespects them, But it's ok to be friends with her because as long as she doesn't backstab you. All is well" "Better to have backstabber as friend than no friend at all. "Just do not accept anyone backstabbing you, since you are oh so special. After all, I raised you to have no empathy for others, your only concern should be yourself"

 

It didn't make sense to me either and I am a fMOW and BS. MOW was convinced my WH only lies to me.

 

My WH is a LIAR period...end of story It is what he did best while in his A.

[MissBee]

It didn't make sense to me either and I am a fMOW and BS. MOW was convinced my WH only lies to me.

 

My WH is a LIAR period...end of story It is what he did best while in his A.

 

LMAOOO I don't know why this is incredibly funny.

 

@Jlola...I think some people are more insular thinking than others, and this is not an insult. Some people will date anyone really, so long as the person makes them feel good, with no consideration of larger qualities about the person and this person's larger impact on those around them. For them, as long as the person feeds their ego/need to be special/etc that suffices and they tune out anything else. I know women like this...now granted they tend to have other issues, but I know women who date men no one likes (for good reasons) but them, and they relish the us against the world, and he's good to me, so screw everything else...even though he doesn't support his kids, disses his mom, etc...he calls me honey and I love him! They genuinely derive a sense of specialness knowing the only person this guy is good to is them and that need to be special and loved or seeming like they were so wonderful they tamed this beast outweighs all other considerations.

 

I think others think of a broader picture and want this person to be "good" in their own right and care about their reputation outside of their one-on-one relationship and can't be comfortable if it's a case that they are only good to them but display questionable behaviors and character otherwise. It's just about your orientation and what's important to you and how insular or broad-minded you are IMO.

Edited August 2, 2013 by MissBee

[jan2012]

LMAO these men want sex all the time. Do you really think they are going home and keeping their hands off their wife especially after an amazing phone sex session? Don't you think it's possible you get them all sexed up for their wife?

 

this is sooooo true.

[ladydesigner]

LMAOOO I don't know why this is incredibly funny.

 

@Jlola...I think some people are more insular thinking than others, and this is not an insult. Some people will date anyone really, so long as the person makes them feel good, with no consideration of larger qualities about the person and this person's larger impact on those around them. For them, as long as the person feeds their ego/need to be special/etc that suffices and they tune out anything else. I know women like this...now granted they tend to have other issues, but I know women who date men no one likes (for good reasons) but them and they relish the us against the world, and he's good to me, so screw everything else...even though he doesn't support his kids, disses his mom, etc...he calls me honey and I love him!

 

I think others think of a broader picture and want this person to be "good" in their own right and care about their reputation outside of their one-on-one relationship and can't be comfortable if it's a case that they are only good to them but display questionable behaviors and character otherwise. It's just about your orientation and what's important to you and how insular or broad-minded you are IMO.

 

I know right Sometimes you have gotta find the humor in things. I am pretty far out from my RA and 18 months from DDay with WH. With time perspective changes and things aren't as bleak and dark as they once were.

[So happy together]

It didn't make sense to me either and I am a fMOW and BS. MOW was convinced my WH only lies to me.

 

My WH is a LIAR period...end of story It is what he did best while in his A.

 

So, is your WH a reformed liar? I am curious if you feel you can trust him now or if you'll never be able to trust him again. Since he is such a liar and all.

[jlola]

So, is your WH a reformed liar? I am curious if you feel you can trust him now or if you'll never be able to trust him again. Since he is such a liar and all.

 

"Go and sin no more" is what Jesus said to Mary M. Not ,"Hey Mary, I know you are a sinner. It's ok to keep it up.No sweat. As long as you don't sin against ME"

 

See the part of being reformed means you are not going to do that anymore. We can forgive a person who chooses to reform. But when we sit there and call ourselves picky and do not want someone doing to us, what we will willingly help him do to others is a complete disconnect .

Edited August 2, 2013 by jlola

[So happy together]

Anyone can reform. Sure. There are reformed drug addicts, reformed thieves, reformed liars, etc. you are not talking about a "reformed" man when you who are so "picky" are willing to start an affair with a MM. And please do not say "you were in love". love does not hit you like that. It takes a while to develop those feelings and that usually happens with time,intimacy and sharing emotions.

 

You began not with a reformed cheater. But someone who was outright cheating. Big difference. Only thing is, you will ignore the cheating as long as it is not done to you.

 

Most people who have their boundaries straight are not going to accept a man who is a present liar and cheater.

 

"Go and sin no more" is what Jesus said to Mary M. Not ,"Hey Mary, I know you are a sinner. It's ok to keep it up.No sweat. As long as you don;t sin againt ME"

 

 

Why does it not occur to you that the MM that we began an A with reform? Hello??????????? What? Once a cheater always a cheater unless they stay with the BS and then it's totally fine?

 

She just sat there and called her H a liar.

 

I just love it that 'there is no excuse for an affair'. You're right. But there are reasons. Let me cite a few:

 

Lack of intimacy

Lack of sex life

Lack of common goals

Lack of common friends

Nothing in common

Alcoholism/drug addiction

Incompatibility

On

And

On

 

So... MAYBE... just maybe... we won't have to worry about it so much because our intimacy level is so much higher than the intimacy level was with the W.

 

Lots of excuses going on, I see.

 

Let me finish by saying that MY bf has been doing a lot of soul searching and dealt with his issues with a professional. And do you know what? He's dealing more with how to recover from living in that toxic environment, dealing with that garbage than having an affair. It probably saved his sanity. Sometimes cheating is an act of desperation because someone feels trapped. Frankly, I don't consider him a cheater. He was simply a man who had an albatross wrapped around his neck. Thankfully he got out of it.

 

And yeah, damned right we were/are in love. And I'm HAPPY about it. Proud of it. Proud of him.

[So happy together]

"Go and sin no more" is what Jesus said to Mary M. Not ,"Hey Mary, I know you are a sinner. It's ok to keep it up.No sweat. As long as you don't sin against ME"

 

See the part of being reformed means you are not going to do that anymore. We can forgive a person who chooses to reform. But when we sit there and call ourselves picky and do not want someone doing to us, what we will willingly help him do to others is a complete disconnect .

 

So it makes perfect sense that my bf is reformed and won't do that again. Thanks!

 

You see? It's every bit as possible that the 'cheater' won't cheat on us, just as you feel they won't cheat on you again. The difference is, he's never cheated on me. I give us a better chance.

[jlola]

Why does it not occur to you that the MM that we began an A with reform? Hello??????????? What? Once a cheater always a cheater unless they stay with the BS and then it's totally fine?

 

She just sat there and called her H a liar.

 

I just love it that 'there is no excuse for an affair'. You're right. But there are reasons. Let me cite a few:

 

Lack of intimacy

Lack of sex life

Lack of common goals

Lack of common friends

Nothing in common

Alcoholism/drug addiction

Incompatibility

On

And

On

 

So... MAYBE... just maybe... we won't have to worry about it so much because our intimacy level is so much higher than the intimacy level was with the W.

 

.

 

 

Happy, let me tell you something. All those things you wrote down my mother dealt with and more. My father is a malignant narcissist. Nothing crazier making than that. I see though she is a very good person, there was something internal that is just messed up. She is my mother and I love her. But I will admit to that. Even though she is from a culture that basically allows men to do as they please and would have no support from her family had she left, I still cannot fathom why she stayed.

 

Your MM is reformed now. But how did you know he would be? What made you take a gamble on this MM if you are so picky. With all the single men out there, this is where you go? A coward of a man who for some internal reason allows himself and his daughter to be in a toxic situation> And PLEASe do not tell me he did it for his daughter. Because as soon as she was old enough to decide, the courts would have allowed him custody if she chose to go with him.

 

As for an affair. My mother happened to be an amazingly beautiful woman and for every woman my father could have pulled. She could have gotten 10 men with absolutely no effort. I saw men's reactions when they saw her. A fact my father knew since my mother had to be chaparoned by us if any man that came to the house when he was not home. He was paranoid someone would steal his prize.

 

We were not to leave her for a minute. But her values were such she never wanted to show an example of a cheating woman to her children. she would have left before she would allow herself to go down that path. This I respect. Thank goodness in all of her misery and all through putting up with my father's bad behavior, she did not add "cheater" to her history.

[So happy together]

You can drone on and on with all the excuses as to why your affair is so different and special. I think we all get it. Thing is, all those reasons you spouted off are valid reasons for divorce, not affairs. I know you lay the blame at the feet of his BS, she's a drunk, and a lousy housewife, mean, cruel, vile woman. Yet, he chose her, made vows with her, created a life with her, had a child with her, so it must be fair to say, that at some point they had all the intimacy and love, and commitment you now share with your long distance (still) MM.

 

While I know you love to rub in the fact that we are LD, it doesn't bother me. I know we're happy. I wouldn't change a thing. And yes, he did choose her. He was 19. They got married, had a child. She would not have any more. She then began refusing sex. Somewhere along the line in the last ten - fifteen years she began drinking to excess. He's catholic. So suddenly, marriage is for life. Guilt. Shame at his horrendous mistake. Someone who no longer wants him. He's lonely, he's miserable.

 

As I've said. I don't think it's an excuse. I don't think it's her fault he had an affair. I think she played a part in his misery, a LARGE part. But yes, he made the decision.

 

And it was a decision. We're fine with it. Without the affair he would have died a lonely old man who lived miserably. That is why I say I am not happy it began as an affair but I wouldn't change it.

[So happy together]

While I know you love to rub in the fact that we are LD, it doesn't bother me. I know we're happy. I wouldn't change a thing. And yes, he did choose her. He was 19. They got married, had a child. She would not have any more. She then began refusing sex. Somewhere along the line in the last ten - fifteen years she began drinking to excess. He's catholic. So suddenly, marriage is for life. Guilt. Shame at his horrendous mistake. Someone who no longer wants him. He's lonely, he's miserable.

 

As I've said. I don't think it's an excuse. I don't think it's her fault he had an affair. I think she played a part in his misery, a LARGE part. But yes, he made the decision.

 

And it was a decision. We're fine with it. Without the affair he would have died a lonely old man who lived miserably. That is why I say I am not happy it began as an affair but I wouldn't change it.

 

 

I'd like to add also that he takes responsibility for his part in the mess of their marriage. He shouldn't have stayed. He should have left first, he should have taken his daughter. All of those things. Fear sucks.

 

That's the difference I guess... why I don't blame her for the A but I still am not happy with her. Because he has, and is, working diligently to become a better person and she still sits on that sofa and drinks. And sends sh*tty emails. And talks crap about him to her daughter (which he DOES NOT DO)... you name it.

[MissBee]

Why does it not occur to you that the MM that we began an A with reform? Hello??????????? What? Once a cheater always a cheater unless they stay with the BS and then it's totally fine?

 

She just sat there and called her H a liar.

 

I just love it that 'there is no excuse for an affair'. You're right. But there are reasons. Let me cite a few:

 

Lack of intimacy

Lack of sex life

Lack of common goals

Lack of common friends

Nothing in common

Alcoholism/drug addiction

Incompatibility

On

And

On

 

So... MAYBE... just maybe... we won't have to worry about it so much because our intimacy level is so much higher than the intimacy level was with the W.

 

Lots of excuses going on, I see.

 

Let me finish by saying that MY bf has been doing a lot of soul searching and dealt with his issues with a professional. And do you know what? He's dealing more with how to recover from living in that toxic environment, dealing with that garbage than having an affair. It probably saved his sanity. Sometimes cheating is an act of desperation because someone feels trapped. Frankly, I don't consider him a cheater. He was simply a man who had an albatross wrapped around his neck. Thankfully he got out of it.

 

And yeah, damned right we were/are in love. And I'm HAPPY about it. Proud of it. Proud of him.

 

 

Must you do this every thread SHT?

 

In any case...you've gone off on your own tangent....as the initial post which sparked this was Jlola asking Anna-Belle about the dissonance between wanting exclusivity and honesty WHILE the A was going on....her question to Anna-Belle about that then sparked a response from Lady. The situation in question wasn't about reformation, reconciliation or post-A scenarios...but those expectations and excusing WHILE THE A is on.

 

So you and your bf being in love and happy, how much the relationship with you is better than his wife ( I know this entire script by heart btw) misses the mark yet again to address the actual point. Jlola is talking about starting an affair with a man who is currently cheating...how can you be "reformed" WHILE the A is currently happening???

 

SHT sometimes I think you just want to talk about you and your bf regardless of how off topic or non sequiter it is to the post at hand. I don't care if you want to tell us about your happiness...I don't, but sometimes it's a let down when you quote someone and I'm reading thinking your response will be addressing the points in the post you quoted, but then it's not at all about that, just a tangential rehashing of what you've told us before. Then you say it's because we force you to talk about it and we attack you so you have to and I'm like no it's not...you do it all the time without provocation.

Edited August 2, 2013 by MissBee

[So happy together]

Must you do this every thread SHT?

 

In any case...you've gone off on your own tangent....as the initial post which sparked this was Jlola asking Anna-Belle about the dissonance between wanting exclusivity and honesty WHILE the A was going on....her question to Anna-Belle about that then sparked a response from Lady. The situation in question wasn't about reformation, reconciliation or post-A scenarios...but those expectations and excusing WHILE THE A is on.

 

So you and your bf being in love and happy, how much the relationship with you is better than his wife ( I know this entire script by heart btw) misses the mark yet again to address the actual point. Jlola is talking about starting an affair with a man who is currently cheating...how can you be "reformed" WHILE the A is currently happening???

 

SHT sometimes I think you just want to talk about you and your bf regardless of how off topic or non sequiter it is to the post at hand. I don't care if you want to tell us about your happiness...I don't, but sometimes it's a let down when you quote someone and I'm reading thinking your response will be addressing the points in the post you quoted, but then it's not at all about that, just a tangential rehashing of what you've told us before. Then you say it's because we force you to talk about it and we attack you so you have to and I'm like no it's not...you do it all the time without provocation.

 

On the upside, I didn't quote the Bible.

[MissBee]

On the upside, I didn't quote the Bible.

 

 

Not sure if that's an upside lol.

 

The Bible quote at least addressed a pertinent point in the discussion, it was germane to the conversation. You can quote FOX News if you want, heck, lol, so long as it is a legitimate response to the question at hand and isn't just a random gloat which adds no value to the conversation.

[thefooloftheyear]

Must you do this every thread SHT?

 

In any case...you've gone off on your own tangent....as the initial post which sparked this was Jlola asking Anna-Belle about the dissonance between wanting exclusivity and honesty WHILE the A was going on....her question to Anna-Belle about that then sparked a response from Lady. The situation in question wasn't about reformation, reconciliation or post-A scenarios...but those expectations and excusing WHILE THE A is on.

 

So you and your bf being in love and happy, how much the relationship with you is better than his wife ( I know this entire script by heart btw) misses the mark yet again to address the actual point. Jlola is talking about starting an affair with a man who is currently cheating...how can you be "reformed" WHILE the A is currently happening???

 

SHT sometimes I think you just want to talk about you and your bf regardless of how off topic or non sequiter it is to the post at hand. I don't care if you want to tell us about your happiness...I don't, but sometimes it's a let down when you quote someone and I'm reading thinking your response will be addressing the points in the post you quoted, but then it's not at all about that, just a tangential rehashing of what you've told us before. Then you say it's because we force you to talk about it and we attack you so you have to and I'm like no it's not...you do it all the time without provocation.

 

 

Agree,...

 

Ive said it before..but its like the drunk crashing the AA meeting..

 

TFY

[MissBee]

Agree,...

 

Ive said it before..but its like the drunk crashing the AA meeting..

 

TFY

 

Several people have said it and commented on it...and IDK maybe we are all conspiring against SHT out of all other OW here.

[jlola]

He's catholic. So suddenly, marriage is for life. Guilt. Shame at his horrendous mistake. Someone who no longer wants him. He's lonely, he's miserable.

 

 

I'm Catholic also and the Catholic church is pretty lax these days. You can even get an annulment. But as good a Catholic as he was, he chose to break one of the ten commandments"Thou shalt not commit adultery " I love how people pick and choose which what they will obey.

 

As for your MM, like my mother he did not leave because he was exactly where he wanted to be all these years. the pity play came about because he found an audience.Then she became all those horrible things. Sounds like he looks for a mother rather than a spouse.

[2sure]

Since being redundant seems to be the norm...

 

MM lies to his wife about having an affair. Because she may divorce him, or maybe be upset. Who cares why, he lies to her to get what he wants without consequence.

 

MM then lies to his OW about his marriage. Because if he says it's great, or bad but never leaving, she may break up with him. Who cares why, he lies to her to get what he wants without consequence.

 

Sure, one could possibly happen without the other . But MM is completely comfortable and good at telling lies to get what he wants without consequence.

 

Especially in cases where M and OW are hundreds if not thousands of miles apart...no way to validate anything except by grasping at whatever he hands you. That's not an affair, it's OLD without the dating. So, if he's having sex with his wife or not ...what could possibly be the difference?

[MissBee]

Since being redundant seems to be the norm...

 

MM lies to his wife about having an affair. Because she may divorce him, or maybe be upset. Who cares why, he lies to her to get what he wants without consequence.

 

MM then lies to his OW about his marriage. Because if he says it's great, or bad but never leaving, she may break up with him. Who cares why, he lies to her to get what he wants without consequence.

 

Sure, one could possibly happen without the other . But MM is completely comfortable and good at telling lies to get what he wants without consequence.

 

Especially in cases where M and OW are hundreds if not thousands of miles apart...no way to validate anything except by grasping at whatever he hands you. That's not an affair, it's OLD without the dating. So, if he's having sex with his wife or not ...what could possibly be the difference?

 

Yuppp!

 

My curiosity as well.

 

Yes I understand as Anna-Belle pointed out that people often want exclusivity with their SO..but sorry, if you choose a married person, you have chosen not to receive this or for it to be HIGHLY unlikely! Hence, like Jlola was saying, it seems confusing that someone values exclusivity but is willing to date a married person for almost a decade, who by definition is not in a relationship exclusively with them...and yes we know people will say he was and it happens...I'm sure it does...but just on basic principle: "Want exclusivity and Honesty? Date a MM!" would be a HORRIBLE campaign ad...as it seems oxymoronic and MOST times is.

 

I say, enjoy your affair and stop worrying about if MM is sexing his wife or not...he has a wife...he lives with her....if that doesn't bother you...then what's a little sex??? You won't know for sure if he does it or not anyway, unless you have a wetness detector on his penis which alarms at your house and shows you when he is inside of another vagina. Without that, it is very likely he will have sex with a woman he used to have sex with before, was attracted to at some point, who may initiate with him and with whom he still shares a bed or house with, and you will never know. So don't get hung up on this aspect. If you found a way to be okay with him having a wife, another life, etc...why can't you accept the sex too? I didn't worry about this. I didn't like the thought but I didn't get my panties bunched up over it anyway as I knew the score...

Edited August 2, 2013 by MissBee

[thefooloftheyear]

Since being redundant seems to be the norm...

 

MM lies to his wife about having an affair. Because she may divorce him, or maybe be upset. Who cares why, he lies to her to get what he wants without consequence.

 

MM then lies to his OW about his marriage. Because if he says it's great, or bad but never leaving, she may break up with him. Who cares why, he lies to her to get what he wants without consequence.

 

Sure, one could possibly happen without the other . But MM is completely comfortable and good at telling lies to get what he wants without consequence.

 

Especially in cases where M and OW are hundreds if not thousands of miles apart...no way to validate anything except by grasping at whatever he hands you. That's not an affair, it's OLD without the dating. So, if he's having sex with his wife or not ...what could possibly be the difference?

 

 

All true....Agree 100%

 

Or....

 

MM/MW tells 100% the truth..Falls for the OW/OM...Then after the honeymoon period ends decides its not worth blowing his/her life over someone that isnt compatible...or the "fog" lifts and its just "the same old same old"...

 

So, in reality it ends similar to any other relationship that happens in everyday life, with the unfortunate residual remnants of a betrayed spouse and a MM/MW that now has to live with a lifetime of guilt.

 

You see, its not always the "predatory" MM/MW...There is no "boilerplate" affair as far as I can see...They all have their own dynamics..

 

The only constant is that its a terrible idea to enter into one....

TFY

[HopingAgain]

Agree,...

 

Ive said it before..but its like the drunk crashing the AA meeting..

 

TFY

 

LOL! I'm sorry, but the imagery on that just cracked me up!

[HopingAgain]

Why does it not occur to you that the MM that we began an A with reform? Hello??????????? What? Once a cheater always a cheater unless they stay with the BS and then it's totally fine?

 

She just sat there and called her H a liar.

 

I just love it that 'there is no excuse for an affair'. You're right. But there are reasons. Let me cite a few:

 

Lack of intimacy

Lack of sex life

Lack of common goals

Lack of common friends

Nothing in common

Alcoholism/drug addiction

Incompatibility

On

And

On

 

So... MAYBE... just maybe... we won't have to worry about it so much because our intimacy level is so much higher than the intimacy level was with the W.

 

Lots of excuses going on, I see.

 

Let me finish by saying that MY bf has been doing a lot of soul searching and dealt with his issues with a professional. And do you know what? He's dealing more with how to recover from living in that toxic environment, dealing with that garbage than having an affair. It probably saved his sanity. Sometimes cheating is an act of desperation because someone feels trapped. Frankly, I don't consider him a cheater. He was simply a man who had an albatross wrapped around his neck. Thankfully he got out of it.

 

And yeah, damned right we were/are in love. And I'm HAPPY about it. Proud of it. Proud of him.

 

I think for your own sake and sanity you should stop trying to rationalize what is often irrational (reasons for an affair or having one) and also stop making justifications and being so blase about the way your relationship started. If there is one pitfall I can assure you that will trip you up in the future (unintentionally at that) it is your ATTITUDE about infidelity. You are too "ok" with it and that is likely gonna cause issues going forward if you don't address it. O.k., MM is working on his issues with it, but what about YOURS? You seem entirely too comfortable, even proud, of how all of this came to be in the first place.

[ladydesigner]

So, is your WH a reformed liar? I am curious if you feel you can trust him now or if you'll never be able to trust him again. Since he is such a liar and all.

 

I'll never trust him 100% again. Hope he can reform, he has to prove that to me.

Edited August 2, 2013 by ladydesigner

[So happy together]

Miss Bee,

 

I'm going to answer your question. You think I rambled on and what I said was not pertinent to the conversation... so here is a list of why it was. Please try to follow along.

 

Anna-Bella talking about wanting honesty and exlusivity with their partner.

 

Several posters saying it makes no sense

for her to expect that. MM are liars.

 

Lady Designer saying her WH is a liar

 

Me asking LD if suddenly she can trust her

liar husband.

 

Jlola changing her post. Her original said

Anyone can reform, druggies, etc. But not talking

about a reformed man.

 

I asked why it doesn't occur to anyone that

our MM could be reformed. Citing reasons

for an affair and that it may no longer be a

worry as the R is different.

 

Jlola talking about her mom... not having an

affair despite all she dealt with regarding

her father, that she didn't cheat.

 

Wiser now rubbing it in that I am still LD, I have

my reasons. But that is neither here nor there.

Saying the reasons I cited were reasons for

D not affair. How he chose his stbx, that

he could do that to me (paraphrasing)

 

I explained why it was different. that he

takes responsibility for his actions etc.

 

 

Then you said I was making no sense, which of course I was. If you don't

want to read my posts, then please don't. I'm sorry, I guess perhaps I don't follow proper ettiquette... I haven't been in a forum for decades rehashing why I should be happy and I'm not.

[So happy together]

Several people have said it and commented on it...and IDK maybe we are all conspiring against SHT out of all other OW here.

 

And this was just rude. Don't worry. I know you hate that I won't apologize to you and all the other poor BS's... not going to happen. If I ever did apologize, why in the world would it be to you? I just laugh at the things you say sometimes, seriously. You think you know it all because you've lived it... but you are just a pendulum that has swung entirely the other way. And that's fine. But don't try to prescribe my morals to me.

 

Have a good day.