My gf kissed another guy :((

[Simon Phoenix]

It's cheating. There really shouldn't be a debate about that. She betrayed him. As for the "criminal" part, that was only mentioned because LittleTiger compared it to a misdemeanor.

 

I don't care about her age. Plenty of 20-year-olds don't kiss other people when they are in relationships. And I don't know if she's learned her lesson or not, because this saga isn't finished. We don't know her motivation for why she told him right away. She could have realized she screwed up horribly with a person she loved, she could have felt bad despite having doubts in the relationship, she could have tried to get ahead of the backlash, or she could have done it to simply absolve herself of guilt. We don't know why she did what she did at this point. I'm not going to assume either way.

 

It's up to the OP to question her directly on why she did what she did. She owes him a complete explanation of her actions. From there maybe he'll decide that it was a "mistake" or maybe he'll decide it's too much to handle.

[Simon Phoenix]

I'm not being flippant or dismissive in any way. What she did was undoubtedly wrong. However, it is not a crime.

 

If someone 'steals' an item from a store by walking out of the store without paying and then immediately realises what they've done and goes back inside to pay for the item, no crime has been committed - especially if they did it by mistake, and without thinking.

 

No crime has been committed either by someone who regularly gets aroused by people other than their partner - perhaps by mentally undressing someone in the street who has particularly attractive 'attributes', or by fantasising about other people whilst having sex with their partner, or by nurturing friendships with the opposite sex that extend a little too far into emotional intimacy (online or IRL) or by watching porn or visiting strip clubs etc etc

 

You could say that provided there is no physical touching involved in the above behaviours, then a real 'kiss' is worse. However, I would argue that, for some people and in some circumstances, mental infidelity is much worse than what the OPs girlfriend did - once, by mistake!

 

You may not agree with me, of course, but it's all a matter of perspective. I believe that 'intention' and the underlying cause of the behaviour are more important than the behaviour itself.

 

We're going to agree to disagree I guess, because I don't agree with any aspect of what you wrote. The result is what matters, not the intent. People have thoughts that betray them from time to time. But they don't necessarily act on them. She acted on it and the result was cheating. What she did is more important than what she might have thought. We live in a result-based society. Actions speak louder than words or thoughts. And her actions were unacceptable. Even the OP realizes that. Now it's up to him to figure out if the juice is worth the squeeze.

[therhythm]

No one in this story is a child. I'm not condemning her, and the comparison to a criminal was only to show the logic confessions only alleviate a guilty mind they don't make things right. My advice to dump her is about Fraser protecting himself and has nothing to do with hurting her.

 

Same exact scenario girl cheats and tells her boyfriend right away. He loves her and things are great he just wants to find a way to move forward. Only difference she gave the guy a bj and immediately regretted it. Wouldn't you still be giving the same advice?

 

Not.. the act is not the same... bj and a kiss are not the same..

 

Would you treat the same a guy who kicked in the ass someone than to a guy who murdered someone?

 

The severity of the act needs to be taken in consideration when making any judgment. You are not helping him to protect himself by telling him to get rid of what makes him happy

[Simon Phoenix]

Not.. the act is not the same... bj and a kiss are not the same..

 

Would you treat the same a guy who kicked in the ass someone than to a guy who murdered someone?

 

The severity of the act needs to be taken in consideration when making any judgment. You are not helping him to protect himself by telling him to get rid of what makes him happy

 

So she's his only happiness? There's no way he could be happy with anyone else? You don't know that, so don't speculate and don't belittle the OP and tell him that she's the only good thing in his life. That's not fair. We have no idea if he'll ultimately be happier with her or without her.

[therhythm]

So she's his only happiness? There's no way he could be happy with anyone else? You don't know that, so don't speculate and don't belittle the OP and tell him that she's the only good thing in his life. That's not fair. We have no idea if he'll ultimately be happier with her or without her.

 

You should read your posts before posting them...:rolleyes:

 

I have not belittle the OP at any moment... (definitely didn't call him emasculated because he doesn't do what I want ).

I haven't said that she is the only thing that makes him happy ...but she is something that makes him happy (comprehensive reading 101).

If he would be happier with her or without her is only up to OP to decide and till now he has been pretty consistent that he wants to move forward with her... it is just the how what he needs help with .... maybe you should try to answer his question in stead of pushing him to do what you want him to do ....

Edited August 2, 2013 by therhythm

[Simon Phoenix]

You should read your posts before posting them...:rolleyes:

 

I have not belittle the OP in an moment... (definitely didn't call him emasculated because he doesn't do what I want ).

I haven't said that she is the only thing that makes him happy ...but she is something that makes him happy (comprehensive reading 101).

If he would be happier with her or without her is only up to OP to decide and till now he has been pretty consistent that he wants to move forward with her... it is just the how what he needs help with .... maybe you should try to answer his question in stead of pushing him to do what you want him to do ....

 

Do you actually read what other people write, or are you too busy thinking of what condescending smilies to post? The OP is definitely torn. Sure, he'd like to go back to what he had with her, but he realizes that there are questions that need to be answered before he can do that. And if you've read any of my posts today, I've encouraged the OP to ask those questions and consider all of the possibilities, both positive and negative. For someone talking about comprehensive reading 101, you don't really seem to have a clue of what people are posting today.

 

Yes, I did write that he was acting emasculated yesterday because he was talking about how he could lose out on her (despite her causing this rift by her selfish action) instead of considering the fact that she could be losing out on him with her selfishness. And I still stand by that. Since then he seems to have backed off from that self-defeatist attitude and is looking at this a lot more logically and with a lot more inner strength. She's the one losing out, not him, if he decides to bounce, because it was her actions that cause that. He seems to be coming at this from a healthier mindset, which is what I was hoping he'd do.

 

But yeah, it might be wise to stop trying to condescend and belittle other posters. Just give advice and stop being a jackass. We're all on the same team and we want to help the OP, even if we don't agree on what the game plan should be. I don't necessarily want him to dump her -- he can do what he feels is best -- but I want him to get as much information as possible so he can make the best possible decision. But for as much guff as you gave me for what I posted yesterday, you are basically posting in the same manner today (albeit from the other side of the issue).

Edited August 2, 2013 by Simon Phoenix

[therhythm]

Do you actually read what other people write, or are you too busy thinking of what condescending smilies to post? The OP is definitely torn. Sure, he'd like to go back to what he had with her, but he realizes that there are questions that need to be answered before he can do that. And if you've read any of my posts today, I've encouraged the OP to ask those questions and consider all of the possibilities, both positive and negative. For someone talking about comprehensive reading 101, you don't really seem to have a clue of what people are posting today.

 

Yes, I did write that he was acting emasculated yesterday because he was talking about how he could lose out on her (despite her causing this rift by her selfish action) instead of considering the fact that she could be losing out on him with her selfishness. And I still stand by that. Since then he seems to have backed off from that self-defeatist attitude and is looking at this a lot more logically. She's the one losing out, not him, if he decides to bounce, because it was her actions that cause that. He seems to be coming at this from a healthier mindset, which is what I was hoping he'd do.

 

But yeah, it might be wise to stop trying to condescend and belittle other posters. Just give advice and stop being a jackass. We're all on the same team and we want to help the OP, even if we don't agree on what the game plan should be. I don't necessarily want him to dump her -- he can do what he feels is best -- but I want him to get as much information as possible so he can make the best possible decision.

 

That is what I often wonder... are we all in the same team and do we all want to help OP? Or do we need our values and expectations projected in OP life and we fight for him acting like we would?

Is OP wish of being with this woman contemplated by anyone? Are we giving the crime the right consequence or are we just so blinded by our own social and relationship expectations that we make a sport (a match) where we can win or lose by taking a side and try to influence OP in what way or another?

 

I do think OP has all the right to bounce and dump her girlfriend ... he doesn't need a reason for that actually he can just dump her at any moment.

The fact is that he has feelings for her... he has become invested in this relationship and the question is... and it is for OP to answer... does the fact that she was stupid and made a mistake (a kiss) worth more than anything else he has experienced in this relationship? Is this a deal breaker for him? If it is then I totally agree ... he should move on... but if it isn't a deal breaker I think he should be focusing on how to talk to his girlfriend so she understands she needs to learn to build boundaries around other men... and how she can't allow herself 1 to 1 meetings with other men till she hasn't learn that... and how to let this be part of his past and move forward if he wants to keep a healthy relationship...

 

At the end of the day... it is all in OP's hands... I don't think my opinion/advise is better or worse than yours... but I do think you way to give advise is to aggressive ...if that makes me look condescending...so be it

Edited August 2, 2013 by therhythm

[Simon Phoenix]

It's your passive-aggressive smilies and comments that give off the condescending vibe. I'm too aggressive, you are too passive-aggressive. But enough about that, we're just hijacking the thread at this point. Either way, the only way we win is if the OP can move forward, either with or without her. If he can do that, I don't really care what the specific result is, my personal thoughts on cheating aside.

 

But going back to what I said, I don't think your comment before gave the OP enough credit. Sure, she could ultimately make him happy, but she's not the only path to that happiness. I just want him to get all the information possible and consider all the paths. He has you and LittleTiger in the "no big deal" camp, me and T3h L337 d00d in the "better beware" camp. It's a balance.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Simon Phoenix

[salparadise]

That is what I often wonder... are we all in the same team and do we all want to help OP? Or do we need our values and expectations projected in OP life and we fight for him acting like we would?

Is OP wish of being with this woman contemplated by anyone? Are we giving the crime the right consequence or are we just so blinded by our own social and relationship expectations that we make a sport (a match) where we can win or lose by taking a side and try to influence OP in what way or another?

 

This is the motivation and agenda behind ninety-five percent of the hard liner posts in this thread and elsewhere, and frankly it's boring as hell. There are certain things you must be able to do in order to help people in tough situations... otherwise you're just beating your own drum.

 

• get your ego out of the way
  
• empathize and place yourself in their shoes
  
• meet the person exactly where they are
  
• understand and accept their values, beliefs, experience and world view
  
• understand their preferred outcomes, priorities, etc., and/or help them clarify
  
• suggest solutions that are consistent with the person's values, beliefs, priorities that help achieve a desirable outcome for them
  

[therhythm]

This is the motivation and agenda behind ninety-five percent of the hard liner posts in this thread and elsewhere, and frankly it's boring as hell. There are certain things you must be able to do in order to help people in tough situations... otherwise you're just beating your own drum.

 

• get your ego out of the way
  
• empathize and place yourself in their shoes
  
• meet the person exactly where they are
  
• understand and accept their values, beliefs, experience and world view
  
• understand their preferred outcomes, priorities, etc., and/or help them clarify
  
• suggest solutions that are consistent with the person's values, beliefs, priorities that help achieve a desirable outcome for them
  

 

That is exactly my point... Thank you!:bunny:

[LittleTiger]

We're going to agree to disagree I guess, because I don't agree with any aspect of what you wrote. The result is what matters, not the intent. People have thoughts that betray them from time to time. But they don't necessarily act on them. She acted on it and the result was cheating. What she did is more important than what she might have thought. We live in a result-based society. Actions speak louder than words or thoughts. And her actions were unacceptable. Even the OP realizes that. Now it's up to him to figure out if the juice is worth the squeeze.

 

I'm sorry, but thoughts are sometimes far worse than actions. Do you think it's ok for somebody to fantasise about sex with their neighbours 3 year old child - provided they never actually touch the child? An extreme example perhaps but it illustrates well that intent matters very much!

 

There are dozens of threads on LS alone talking about how betrayed some women feel when their man spends hours watching internet porn instead of having sex with them. I have a male friend who freely admits that he fantasises about other women when he's having sex with his girlfriend. To me, both examples are far worse than one accidental kiss which is confessed to immediately.

 

So, no, actions do not always speak louder than words or thoughts.

[LittleTiger]

He has you and LittleTiger in the "no big deal" camp, me and T3h L337 d00d in the "better beware" camp. It's a balance.

 

Where did anyone say this was 'no big deal'?

 

What I have said, several times, is that he needs to find out 'why' she was tempted to kiss another guy. If a machine is running along smoothly and suddenly it breaks - it doesn't break without cause. Find the fault, fix it if it's fixable, and carry on. If it's not fixable - time for a new machine.

[Simon Phoenix]

I'm sorry, but thoughts are sometimes far worse than actions. Do you think it's ok for somebody to fantasise about sex with their neighbours 3 year old child - provided they never actually touch the child? An extreme example perhaps but it illustrates well that intent matters very much!

 

There are dozens of threads on LS alone talking about how betrayed some women feel when their man spends hours watching internet porn instead of having sex with them. I have a male friend who freely admits that he fantasises about other women when he's having sex with his girlfriend. To me, both examples are far worse than one accidental kiss which is confessed to immediately.

 

So, no, actions do not always speak louder than words or thoughts.

 

That's a ridiculously bad example and you should feel bad. How the hell do you bring pedophilia into this conversation?

[Simon Phoenix]

Where did anyone say this was 'no big deal'?

 

What I have said, several times, is that he needs to find out 'why' she was tempted to kiss another guy. If a machine is running along smoothly and suddenly it breaks - it doesn't break without cause. Find the fault, fix it if it's fixable, and carry on. If it's not fixable - time for a new machine.

 

You said earlier that it wasn't cheating. That's definitely minimizing it to a "no big deal" thing to me. And I've also said the OP needs to figure out why it happened before moving on in any direction. But yes, your insistence that he didn't cheat (which even my buddy therhythm disagreed with) is where I got that from.

 

And I was a little harsh in the above post and I apologize. The example you used wasn't a good one because people with those type of criminal/anti-social thoughts that recur unfortunately tend to act on them. I was thinking more along the line of the guy who gets cut off in traffic and thinks for a second "I want to kill that guy!" but then calms down and that thought disappears, never to return again. I don't think a fleeting thought of wanting to kill someone in traffic is worse than stopping your car at the next light, pulling him out of a car and punching him once in the face.

 

Plus, we have no idea if the OP's girlfriend hadn't thought of this before. I would gamble that she had. I don't think she just had an impulse and acted on it. I think she fantasized about kissing another guy and foolishly acted on it. But that's something the OP needs to try to find out. Maybe she realized the fantasy should have stayed a fantasy and that she loves the OP? Maybe she feels really guilty but has concerns about the relationship with the OP? Maybe she's just looking to try not to be the bad person and save face? Only time will tell.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Simon Phoenix

[Fraser]

As I said in my first post on this thread, they need to get to the bottom of 'why' she kissed another guy. The most likely answer is that she has a need that is not currently being met in this relationship.

Sure, he'd like to go back to what he had with her, but he realizes that there are questions that need to be answered before he can do that. And if you've read any of my posts today, I've encouraged the OP to ask those questions and consider all of the possibilities, both positive and negative.

 

Hey guys,

 

Yeah, I didn't really want the convo but I decided it was time to ask her to tell me everything leading up to it.

Basically what she said to me was -

he's home cause his grans ill (he works/lives abroad normally) and her and her friend were meeting up with him (he was quite close to her friend back at school). Her friend pulled out sick but Meg felt bad pulling out as well seeing as he was having a tough time.

Then she says that they were just chatting, he mentioned our trip to Paris (he'd seen her photos on facebook) and asked her how it was going with me, to which she apparently tells him how great we are, that im not like other guys. Then she tells me that he was like 'well I hope he knows hes a lucky guy' and she though he was messing about so just said 'don't worry I tell him'. Then apparently there talking about there grans. And she also said that he was paying her compliments but he's always been like that with all the girls since school, she says 'he's one of these people who thinks he's really charming but it comes off a little creepy or at the very least tying to hard'. But supposedly she felt sorry for him cause he was getting upset etc etc etc and she put her hand on his shoulder which he obviously saw as a green light and kissed her. She said 'I don't know why I kissed him back, I guess I was talking about something quite personal and its still raw, and I dunno, I was hurting frayz and so was he and it felt like a quick fix, except it didn't it felt really really wrong, I was like sh*t what are you doing!! but I feel like im making excuses and I don't want to do that - I f*cked up and I want to make it better if you'll let me fraser'

[Fraser]

I agree but there is no doubt she cheated. So the benefit of the doubt you want this guy to give his girlfriend is on whether she'll cheat again. All signs point to yes. At a minimum she will probably dump him for another guy at some point. Pull one of those out of one relationship straight into another cheater moves.

Woah that's a bit of a leap out of the blue no mate? I dont get what your basing that on?

[Fraser]

Same exact scenario girl cheats and tells her boyfriend right away. He loves her and things are great he just wants to find a way to move forward. Only difference she gave the guy a bj and immediately regretted it. Wouldn't you still be giving the same advice?

 

Obviously that's a big step up the ladder and I doubt we could move past that...for one thing I really don't believe you can blow a guy and call it a mistake - it takes time (depending on the guy ) it takes time and she'd know exactly what she was doing throughout and she'd of kept on doing it - making her bf a long way from her thoughts.

At least I was in megans thoughts - she did stop it, walk away.

[Simon Phoenix]

Woah that's a bit of a leap out of the blue no mate? I dont get what your basing that on?

 

Most that cheat once on a person tend to cheat again on that very same person. It's human nature -- they've already gotten away with it once so why not try it again? The whole "if you give me an inch, I'll take a mile" train of thought. That's where that post came from.

 

Will it happen to you? Who knows, but situations like yours (assuming you take her back) usually play out in two ways. Either a) they stray again or b) the person that's cheated on is so paranoid about the cheater straying again that they suffocate the other person and there is a breakup because of that.

 

As for what your ex said to you about the situation, you need to dig deeper. The fact that he's charming isn't a good enough explanation. She's going to meet other charming guys and she can't be weak like that. I would ask her, and insist if she tries to avoid the question, if she's thought about doing something like that before. A kiss is easily avoidable -- I've had plenty of women who were able to deflect my kissing advances through my life And I would still take more time to think -- don't let her pressure you into making any decision before you want to.

[Fraser]

Most that cheat once on a person tend to cheat again on that very same person. It's human nature -- they've already gotten away with it once so why not try it again? The whole "if you give me an inch, I'll take a mile" train of thought. That's where that post came from.

i guess i feel like if our relationship means anything to her then it shouldnt be a me about how fare can push me - i would like to believe relationship means more than that to her and i feel like it does..but if it doesn't then id walk, lives too short for that.

will it happen to you? Who knows, but situations like yours (assuming you take her back) usually play out in two ways. Either a) they stray again or b) the person that's cheated on is so paranoid about the cheater straying again that they suffocate the other person and there is a breakup because of that.

Yeah i mean a's a difficult one fo me, i fit so hard to picture her cheating -even now when i know she has done. B is actually under my control, we've had such a great time together and i ent want it o end yet BUT as i said earlier i ont play the jealous insecure gd who dosent let his gf breath - ifi cat get past it id rather ilk away now with my pride and while we still like ea other and the memories are good ones. Sayingthat i ont want to chuck it all away without trying tomove forward.

for what your ex said to you about the situation, you need to dig deeper. The fact that he's charming isn't a good enough explanation. She's going to meet other charming guys and she can't be weak like that.

well she said he thinks he's charming but it comes off creepy

I would ask her, and insist if she tries to avoid the question, if she's thought about doing something like that before. A kiss is easily avoidable -- I've had plenty of women who were able to deflect my kissing advances through my life And I would still take more time to think -- don't let her pressure you into making any decision before you want to.

i kind of did..well along those lines - she was like 'there's never been anyoe but you frayz, not even him, i didnt think when i was with him - that was the whole problem'.

[Fraser]

So she's his only happiness? There's no way he could be happy with anyone else? You don't know that, so don't speculate and don't belittle the OP and tell him that she's the only good thing in his life. That's not fair. We have no idea if he'll ultimately be happier with her or without her.

 

she's not the one and only thing that makes me happy there's other things: family, friends, sport, fishing, work, donuts...but she's sure up there!

[Shaun-Dro]

I'm going to chalk this one up to boredom, especially when you mention the fact that the relationship had no problems whatsoever.

 

Women crave drama, any form of it actually, and she hoped that this kiss in spite of it hurting you, would've stirred the pot a little bit, and made things a little more interesting for her.

 

Now, in a way it has, because you broke up with her and she's trying to win you back, so now the relationship has gone on its first roller coaster stop.

 

Good luck to you on whatever your decision is going to eventually be, but I figured you'd want to know what waits in the wings between you guys. And trust me on this: there will be more problems if you go back to her. This is just the beginning.

[therhythm]

What kind of boundaries is she willing to keep in the future. Is she going to continue to meet with guys alone. It was just her and this guy spending time together.

 

That is a great question and I have asked this myself too... I think OP should really focus on explaining his boundaries to his Girlfriend and she needs to be very (VERY) understanding!

 

The example about the bj by the way was to test the waters with therhythm I wondered if he would answer the question.

 

My answer is bellow quoted ... I already answered you :eek::confused:

 

 

Look go ahead date her it already seems like that's what you're going to do. Don't let her paint you as the bad guy if a few days, weeks, months you decide you don't want to move forward because you could never get over this.

 

I agree with this!

 

Not.. the act is not the same... bj and a kiss are not the same..

 

Would you treat the same a guy who kicked in the ass someone than to a guy who murdered someone?

 

The severity of the act needs to be taken in consideration when making any judgment. You are not helping him to protect himself by telling him to get rid of what makes him happy

[Simon Phoenix]

So he's charming but creepy? And she still kissed him? Maybe the poster who was talking about her trying to add some drama is right, maybe she was looking to stir the pot a bit. I don't know. I do agree that you have to set boundaries with this girl if you are going to take her back and you have to adhere to them. Maybe this is her "get out of jail free" card, but you need to come up with some boundaries, explain them thoroughly and if she really loves you, she won't object. If she does object, that's a red flag. And if she screws up a second time, then you should definitely bail.

[Fraser]

What kind of boundaries is she willing to keep in the future. Is she going to continue to meet with guys alone. It was just her and this guy spending time together.

hmm, see this is another thing im confused on - like im pretty certain she'd agree to anything right now but on the other hand like I say I want us to move forward being normal I don't want to be the jealous bf, like if I cant trust her what have we got? I don't want to be laying down the law on what she does....I just, I dunno what to do on that front!

 

Look go ahead date her it already seems like that's what you're going to do. Don't let her paint you as the bad guy if a few days, weeks, months you decide you don't want to move forward because you could never get over this.

 

I do want to give it a crack I just I don’t want to like rush to put it back together cause ithink if I’ll do that I’ll just break it.

 

I was having a really good chat today with my mate at ourswim meet, like normally she’d be there but I told her not to be cause I neededto focus, so we were just chatting afterwards and he said to me (as best as I canremember it):

 

The thing is you and megan always reminded me of my folks –not as in like age or looking after me but as in how stable you were, you mightas well of been married for 25 years with two grown up sons and a daughter atuni for all the chance I thought you had of ever splitting up. You’re a stable,reliable kinda person frayz and I always thought she was too, but if you take that away do you still want to be with her? She’s still pretty, funny &down to earth but if you take away her stability do you love her regardless and not for the girl she was 3 days ago? For what its worth I hope you work it out –but make sure you do what you want and don’t just do it to protect her – Courtney[that’s his gf] saw her the other days so I know shes a mess bud but if you make your decision just so as not to hurt her you’ll hurt her more in the long run.

[Fraser]

I'm going to chalk this one up to boredom, especially when you mention the fact that the relationship had no problems whatsoever.

 

Women crave drama, any form of it actually, and she hoped that this kiss in spite of it hurting you, would've stirred the pot a little bit, and made things a little more interesting for her.

 

Now, in a way it has, because you broke up with her and she's trying to win you back, so now the relationship has gone on its first roller coaster stop.

 

Good luck to you on whatever your decision is going to eventually be, but I figured you'd want to know what waits in the wings between you guys. And trust me on this: there will be more problems if you go back to her. This is just the beginning.

 

See thatwa the thing with me and Meg it was never teen-relationship-drama, never...we were set up, hooked up and that was it - no drama.

I liked that, I'm not a party boy, im not a player, I liked being in a rock solid relationship...I thought she was completely on the same page