wife troubles...

[dingo]

My wife and I are both 38 years old, have been living together for almost 7 years and married for the last two. Our relationship has gone through good times and bad and up until recently had seemed pretty normal to me. We have a lot of common interests and were always able to laugh, joke and be affectionate with each other. There were times when I was somewhat absent from the relationship (spent a couple of years addicted to a video game, focused on work, etc) and didn't always hear her requests for attention. Similar things happened in reverse as well, mostly centered around time she spent with her family and friends.

 

We've had a very stressful couple of years. Just after our wedding, I began a new job that I was very excited about and poured a lot of energy into. My wife and I are both engineering consultants and she understands the work hours and focus on clients' needs that our job requires - no matter what time of the day. However, I still think she resented how much i focused on work. Around the same time, my dad revealed that his cancer had returned. After 9 months of treatment, he passed away in July 2012. During this time, my wife's mother's illness became terminal and she passed away in May 2013. Lastly, there has been a lot of pressure to have a child. While I always thought we would have a family, I could not bring myself to pull the trigger and go through with it. After an argument back in March 2013, i began to understand how much it meant to her and slowly my stance changed.

 

My wife admitted to an affair with a co-worker approximately 2 weeks ago. She claimed that before our argument concerning having a child, she had never questioned whether she was in love with me. After that argument, she began to question love and whether we were right for each other. During this time, she began to befriend this co-worker. Innocently enough at first, she says but as she got to know him more, he began to elicit feelings in her that had eroded in our relationship (from what i read, pretty typical for affairs). During the last weeks of her mother's life, I felt like I was there for her. However, she recalls an instance where she asked if we could go away for the weekend and I said 'no, we're saving money for a vacation in the fall.' Admittedly, this is probably something I would have said but I do not recall the conversation. In her mind, she needed a break from everything with her mother and I had callously denied her that. This is apparently when the affair started (mid-May2013).

 

She began to be distant, spent a lot of time away from home, did most of her activities on her own and we stopped having sex (again, typical behavior/warning signs). Her claim was that she needed time and space to figure out what she wanted. Although I wasn't always successful, I did attempt to give her space. I moved into my mom's house for a couple of days and she stayed at her 'girlfriend's' house for a couple of days (i later found out that this was a lie). Eventually I caught her in a lie and she admitted to the affair. She then walked out of the house and stayed somewhere else for the night. The following evening, she moved back in and claimed she wanted things to work. We began seeing a counselor individually and as a couple. The following weekend, I caught her in another lie. She claimed that she was going to visit her father but was in fact out of town with the OM. When I called her on that, she came rushing home, claimed no more lies and that she just needed one last 'date.'

 

Today we are continuing to see the counselor and the sessions tend to go pretty well. We have good days and bad days. She tells me she loves me some days and other days she acts strangely when that topic comes up. She tells me of conversations with her father and his advice to her was 'your mother and I had a lot of problems in our marriage, if you love each other, you will work it out.' I ask her if we love each other, and she says yes. Some days, she will come home and ask about how we're splitting the property/finances if we get divorced or will tell me she's casually looking at apartments. Other days its 'god forbid we get a divorce.' Some days she's very affectionate, holding hands, hugging, etc. and other days she's distant and standoffish. Some days she can't get enough of me and others she doesnt want me around at all. Sex has not yet happened since the admission. I think you get the idea...

 

She has assured me that all contact with the OM since the last date has been strictly professional. I obviously have no way to verify this (there are just too many ways for people to secretly communicate these days) but as things are generally much more positive than they were at the height of the affair, I tend to believe her.

 

I think its important to note that we've never really had a problem getting along and other than the topic of our future, that trend continues. When we're in the car and the conversation is light, we still laugh and joke and are very interested in each others' lives. We are still able to do the activities that we enjoyed together (bike rides, hiking, backpacking, wildlife watching, etc.).

 

The bottom line is that I feel there is still a lot of love there and am really at a loss as to what I should be doing. I do feel like she gets overwhelmed with some of the affection and attention I have been giving her but because the lack of attention is what supposedly drove her away in the first place, I am not sure the 180 is the right move. Of course now, the situation is reversed in that I desperately want to start a family and she is on the fence. Lastly, because of the past, when she is not with me and comes home late from the gym, work, etc., i get extremely anxious and tense.

 

I obviously love this woman very much and somewhere inside her, I believe she still loves me very much. I am not interested in this point at saving my pride, being right or proving points. I want to save our marriage. I wanted to get some advice on my general situation from some of the experts here as well as tips on some of my questions in the previous paragraph. Thanks for taking the time to read this post. Any comments/ideas at all are greatly appreciated.

[dingo]

Good questions Mack. The reasons behind some of my failings are simple.

 

When I moved back to my hometown, I was heartbroken from a previous breakup and hating that I had to move to get away from the on again/off again situation. I wished I was back with my old friends and old apartment. The video game was a way for me to maintain contact with those people and also something to immerse myself in while I tried to come to terms with my situation. Sometime in the middle of all this is when I met my wife. I knew she was someone that I could spend the rest of my life with but was not emotionally ready to commit. I took the coward's way out and continued to live with her and plan for our future, hoping that I could find out why i didn't love her as much as I felt I should and eventually overcome that hangup. One day, shortly after our marriage, I realized the weekly facebook messages from my ex were the problem. They were innocent enough but had been going on since I moved. They managed to keep the tiniest fraction of my thoughts and emotions oriented towards my former life and prevented me from living in my current situation. I immediately removed her from my friends list and there has been no contact since. Within a week of doing this, I fell completely in love with my wife. TUnfortunately, this is also when the **** hit the fan with other portions of our lives (deaths, new jobs, etc.). he video game addiction ended about a year prior. I realized I was wasting my time and life and one day just stopped playing.

 

With respect to work. I spent a lot of time being in debt and living month to month when I was younger. Eventually I began to realize more long term goals and started to work on them. Unfortunately I felt I was behind the ball towards saving for a good retirement and financial goals with respect to having a family. I changed jobs immediately after our marriage. This new job offered me many more opportunities for promotions and raises as compared to my old job and I felt like I was doing the right thing for my family by taking advantage of this. In hindsight, I spent a lot of time at work and when I was home I was generally tired, stressed out and unavailable.

 

With respect to her continuing to work with the OM. It is indeed a point that I am not really comfortable with. She works in a small office and has daily interactions with this person on various projects. That's how the relationship started to begin with. I have brought up the possibility that she or he find a new job and her response was to see how things go for a little while and if she/he can manage to keep things professional. Again, I have a lot of anxiety when I drop her off at work in the morning and usually can't help to ask if there was any non-work related interaction as soon as I pick her up. Not really a comfortable situation.

[dingo]

I really hope you aren't bending over backwards trying to please your wife, please tell me you aren't dripping with affection and attention.

 

Those are just excuses she used to justify her affair.

 

My H said the same thing: "You don't care about me!" WTF?? Are you kidding!

 

I did the 180 on his butt! Told him by all means, go get the greener grass! Bye Bye now! Good luck with it!

 

He's a much better man now.

Anyway, don't fall for her blaming you and complaints of lack of affection. PUHLEEEZE!

She CHOSE to go outside your marriage, no excuses! Don't kiss her butt for it. your just showing her she can cheat on you and you will treat her like gold for doing it!

 

Sorry to be blunt and to the point,

I'm sorry you are going through this but I think you should do the 180 for your own self. I really do. You don't have to be mean, just focus on your life, create a life without her, show her you will be just fine without her.

 

 

Of course Ive been bending over backwards. I am a pretty direct person and don't really like to play games or be manipulative. I tend to take people at face value and when she told me she felt neglected, it seemed to make sense. I guess im gullible.

 

I forgave her almost immediately at least as far as not being angry with her. Whether I can ever trust her again is another story. I definitely feel nervous and anxious whenever we arent together or when shes typing away on her cell phone. Its not a great way to live but i suppose its part of the process.

 

She has a very hard time talking about the future. Those conversations usually end with her being 'stressed out' and 'feeling like there's no hope for us.' Then of course its all better in the morning or after we've had a bit of time apart.

 

I guess i don't really have a choice but to do the 180. I have no control over what she does anyway....

[Yasuandio]

I just couldn't live like that. I'd be a complete psycho:rolleyes: thinking she was still carrying on with the OM. Having a hard time talking about the future is called "fence sitting".

 

Your right, you can only control your own actions. The 180 is really your best chance at getting control of the situation, as well as scraping up some self dignity / self worth. I'm not trying to be mean to you. Please understand that.

 

Forgiving her right away is a HUGE mistake in my opinion. Like I said you are showing her she can treat you like chit and you will treat her like solid gold for doing it.

 

Good luck on your path, wherever it may take you. There are tons of people here to help you. Keep posting, keep reading.

 

Nailed it, Beenkilled! What she said!^^^^^^^

 

I hate to tell you this, Dingo, but.....this guy at your wife's work, and the "situation," it's like one of THE key classic examples in the literature regarding infidelity. In fact a similar thread is going right now with a female poster named Mrs. S. (her husband stuck up a thing with a girl at the office, and it's getting complicated).

 

It is a confounding situation, that is why you need some solid direction. I recommend you look to the Marriage Builders Website. Dr. Harley, the creator of the site contends that reconciliation is impossible when the third party remain in the picture (see Plan A and Plan B in the pinned thread, link below).

 

Therefore, when you apply some common sense, your apprehensions that you are feeling are "spot-on.". Of course, attraction remains between these two. Attraction is innate - you do not turn it on and off like a faucet. Your wife is giving you a line of bull, and you are eating it up due to your, understandable, "wishful thinking.". But it is time to get real man. Your wife has so much cake in her mouth that her cheeks are plumper out like a dang chipmunk - you just don't see it, cause you are in shock, due to a fear of the loss of your marriage (stage 1: Denial).

 

Now, you need more than the 180. You need a logical, reasonable action plan, with consequences. It wouldn't hurt you to read the Homer 3 Sentence method. But Marriage Builder's entire website, especially Plan A & B are critical to you right at this moment. Hope this helps. Yas

[IndecisionIsTorture]

If you are going to make this move you need to do it yesterday, as there is a little urgency in your late 30's. After 40 you are considered 'old'.

 

What a ridiculous thing to say.

[Jstub]

Dingo - You may have contributed to the problems in your marriage, but it is not your fault that she cheated. You bending backwards is not helping you. Grow a pair and set it straight. What do you have to lose? HER? how has she treated you? like crap.

 

Her sentence of "let's see what happens" when you asked her to change her job (or him) is very alarming. Makes me think that she is just seeing how the affair goes to make her decision about you. Basically, you are plan B. Do you want to be plan B?

 

SHE has to want this marriage. SHE has to come after you. SHE has to beg and plead. SHE has to comfort you. SHE has to be remorseful. SHE has to quit her job to make you feel okay. I can go on and on... but guess what my friend.. she is not doing any of that is she?

 

RUN. You have no children with this woman.... it is so easy compared to what other people have to put up with.

 

Now you want children with her? ARE YOU CRAZY? you want children because you think you can tie her down and keep her to yourself? That's what you are thinking in your head... guess what... the same thing will happen after she feels better about herself and you will have to go through this again with a child this time.

 

BE SMART. THINK WITH YOUR HEAD.

 

I have been there and done that.... i have forgiven my stbxw for cheating and tried to work things out. Got screwed over and over again. When I left, I was so upset at myself for not leaving earlier.

 

Go to this link and read the first post I have made. I think it will be helpful to you.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/405339-trying-fix-marriage-overrated#post5012025

[dingo]

Dingo - You may have contributed to the problems in your marriage, but it is not your fault that she cheated. You bending backwards is not helping you. Grow a pair and set it straight. What do you have to lose? HER? how has she treated you? like crap.

 

Her sentence of "let's see what happens" when you asked her to change her job (or him) is very alarming. Makes me think that she is just seeing how the affair goes to make her decision about you. Basically, you are plan B. Do you want to be plan B?

 

SHE has to want this marriage. SHE has to come after you. SHE has to beg and plead. SHE has to comfort you. SHE has to be remorseful. SHE has to quit her job to make you feel okay. I can go on and on... but guess what my friend.. she is not doing any of that is she?

 

RUN. You have no children with this woman.... it is so easy compared to what other people have to put up with.

 

Now you want children with her? ARE YOU CRAZY? you want children because you think you can tie her down and keep her to yourself? That's what you are thinking in your head... guess what... the same thing will happen after she feels better about herself and you will have to go through this again with a child this time.

 

BE SMART. THINK WITH YOUR HEAD.

 

I have been there and done that.... i have forgiven my stbxw for cheating and tried to work things out. Got screwed over and over again. When I left, I was so upset at myself for not leaving earlier.

 

Go to this link and read the first post I have made. I think it will be helpful to you.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/breaking-up-reconciliation-coping/separation-divorce/405339-trying-fix-marriage-overrated#post5012025

 

 

Thanks for the advice and the link. I read all of the posts in that thread and think its one I will bookmark to read on the tough days. There are a lot of good truisms in that thread that will I will be very keen to remember.

 

As to why I want to save things. I guess right now, Im really not sure about a lot. I never thought I would have to deal with this, thought I had taken my time and chosen well. I suppose most people that face this think that. I guess the desire to stop the bleeding so I can figure out for myself where this is going to go in a less hectic environment may have been the reason for the forgiveness.

 

I don't know where my head will end up. I do feel that people can make mistakes and deserve second chances. However, I also have always felt that this type of betrayal was unforgivable - and now i find myself backing off of that. Loneliness, insecurity about meeting someone new, realizing that I put my heart and soul into this life (at the expense of friends and other facets of my life) probably has more to do with why than I would like to admit.

 

For every story about people making mistakes by taking their WS back, there is one about marriages becoming stronger from the reconciliation. I am not one to give up and do genuinely feel that the most rewarding things in life are the things we have to work the hardest at. Right now, its all so new and I don't want to act impulsively and emotionally.

 

Again, thanks to everyone for the support. I've been on this message board for one day and i think you all have been wonderful. Hell, you've probably done more for my self confidence and done more to help prop me up in this one day than my counselor has in the last 3 weeks.

[CarrieT]

And for the record I dont believe, 40 is old. Society does. Dont agree, just google.

Bullshyte.

 

Google is a search engine and with it, you can find any side to any argument. I can find an argument that states anyone over 12 is "old" so don't use the argument, "just google" to try and convince anyone.

 

I could add a million other links. There is a movie about being 40. 40 is considered probably too old to have kids.

And I could add a million links to contradict you. There is a movie about being forty? There are also hundreds of movies about being 56, 60, 14, 33, and every other age.

 

If you are going to try and convince someone of something, provide actual scientific data and information. You might get further in convincing someone of something you believe - even if rather erroneous.

[dingo]

 

Regardless of what Mack said and what society or anyone else thinks, the fact is that I do feel the pressure of age. I don't necessarily feel old but i do feel like the window of opportunity for me to have a family (with children ) is closing fast.

[hayewils]

I see some similarities in your situation and my own. My wife left almost 5 months ago. I truly believe that she was never really in love with me. I also begged, pleaded, believed that the marriage could be saved. I was so crazy, "blind", in love with her. Although I don't have any evidence that she was cheating, I believe she was up to something. Anyway, I tried really hard to fix things, I never received a response from her. She completely ignored me and everything I tried. I know she wasn't in love with me, I still have trouble understanding how someone you shared a life with can just walk out and away and never be heard from or seen again. That's why I believe that besides her not being in love with me, there is someone else.

Women have a much better ability than men to find open arms and affection through these times to help them move away much easier. What I am trying to get at is, that once a woman, or a man for that matter, decides and finds attention somewhere else, its almost impossible to get them back into the marriage and focus on just that. There is some tetter tottering going on, so there is uncertainty.

She thinks about your marriage but she seems also stuck on Mr. Goober.

Listen to the folks on her, work hard on the 180 cause they are hard to do when you love someone so deep. I failed to keep myself on the 180s. Im not real sure they would've done anything more than to help my wife move faster from me. You may later on see that you are trying to hard. I see that I did. I drove myself to the verge of insanity. Im not completely sane today but I am doing so so much better and on my way to happiness. Don't drive yourself to insanity trying to "fix" things. Remember, relationships take two. You didn't get married all by yourself, she was also there. Like my wife who quit on our marriage, yours also quit by doing what she has done. Had I found my wife cheated, I would've been hurt, but I would've been able to move on much much quicker cause that is a game changer for me. That is a boundary line! You don't break the covenant.

One more thing. I also went through all the ,"oh my, what am I going to do"? who will want me? I don't want to start over learning someone else and all that crap. I am 43 and I am looking forward to my future today, now that I have finally got some time between now and the day she left. Life is not over, maybe just a relationship. After that, a new life is born. Like the old, it is what YOU make of it. I have plans for myself. will take some time to get there but I know this, things are going to be better..

Keep your head up!

[hayewils]

 

Regardless of what Mack said and what society or anyone else thinks, the fact is that I do feel the pressure of age. I don't necessarily feel old but i do feel like the window of opportunity for me to have a family (with children ) is closing fast.

 

Bullpoop!

want some evidence your wrong? one name..

Simon Cowell..52 and having kids

[Steadfast]

It's a very frustrating to log in and see another story like this. You (as in me; talking about myself) know, along with others here exactly what the betrayed spouse is going through. How they're being played, how they feel and why they are reacting the way they are. We (the posters who have lived through this and understand) must remember that a broken heart almost always reacts instinctively. A natural reaction to pain is to make it go away. But sadly, for this poster and many others, it won't. It takes time, practice, and lots of desire to learn how to deal. Some will. Others will do anything to remain in limbo. Fear is the betrayed's worst enemy.

 

It is true that you've ruined your best chance for a successful reconciliation by taking the blame, giving space, forgiving/rewarding and generally accepting/acknowledging that your past actions (or lack of them) 'pushed' her to have an affair. Believe me when I tell you this 'trip' is only a handy excuse, and because it was done in the past, it's indefensible. That's on the page one of the cheater's playbook and she's running it smoothly.

 

You have received good advice, even if I don't agree with all of it. I too have studied Harley and the Marriage Builders site, and while I agree it's useless to try when the 'third party' is still in the picture, I disagree on the emphasis of the AP in the grand scheme. There's always an a-hole waiting to run game on any remotely attractive female, married or not. The real issue is your wife. Not him, not where she works. Unless her head and heart are in the right place removing her from the 'temptation' of one particular man, place, situation or circumstance is folly, at best. Cheating and remaining faithful are choices. If faithfulness is or becomes a burden, you're sunk because her selfish desire is stronger than her love. Changing her location won't change her heart.

 

This is why I only recommend Michelle Langley's 'Women's Infidelity' to betrayed men. Langley simply spells out (rather bluntly) the situation from an educated female perspective designed to enlighten and empower. There is no 'plan'. No coddling. Read it and you'll figure it out for yourself. In time, you're realize all you really have is what you'll choose, or not choose.

[Mr. Lucky]

The real issue is your wife. Not him, not where she works. Unless her head and heart are in the right place removing her from the 'temptation' of one particular man, place, situation or circumstance is folly, at best. Cheating and remaining faithful are choices. If faithfulness is or becomes a burden, you're sunk because her selfish desire is stronger than her love. Changing her location won't change her heart.

Incredibly well said. Dingo, you're focused on the "what" - where she works, what they did, how she feels, etc - when you should be thinking about the "why". Because when all is said and done, there's no reason to stay in the marriage absent a rock-solid conviction on your part that this won't happen again. And it that regard, since D-Day, she's done everything single wrong .

 

A marriage is two people. Sorry to tell you, one person can't save a marriage...

 

Mr. Lucky

[2.50 a gallon]

Sorry that you are here, and also sorry to say, as the others have said, until she quits her job, your marriage is over. The reason being chemistry.

 

Love Chemicals to be exact. Once she got involved with him and especially after she had sex with him, her body has began to produce love chemicals for him. They are flooding her brain right now. She knows what she had done is wrong. But now that the LC's have began to flow, her brain, like that of a drug addicted is addicted to them. And like a drug addict it takes time for them to wear off.

 

Every time she is in his presence, her body will produce more and she has to go through withdrawal all over again.

 

Unless he does something bad, like dump her, or disrespect her, he will have a hold on her and your life with her will be that of a yo-yo.

[aliveagain]

When I read your post I only see you as the committed one in this marriage. She is not really remorseful, if she were she would have changed jobs without you having to ask. She never considered your feelings when she started her affair and she still isn't because she chooses to stay working with her other man. Why are you waiting for her to decide anyway, she already made a decision against you and your marriage, by doing so are you giving her the power over your future. She should be on her knees thanking you for your gift of reconciliation and doing everything possible to make you feel safe, that isn't the case. You've only been married a couple of years and she's already cheating, how will you survive a lifetime with her if she isn't honoring her commitment to you? You have no children with her, ask yourself "Is this the person I see myself growing old with?" Be truthful with yourself, if you can't answer yes, get yourself out of this situation. Regardless, talk to a lawyer, understand your rights, expose OM if he is in a relationship and get both of you tested because they always lie about using protection.

[dingo]

I guess its hard to say exactly what is driving me right now as its a little new. Fear, stability (haha - lets just say past stability, which I guess is a pipe dream that this can all go away and things will get back to normal), loss of investment, etc.

 

I do try to be honest with myself about the situation and I don't know where I stand just yet. Alot of what people on both sides of the argument are saying seem to make sense and I guess I just need to come to terms of when enough is enough for me. In the meantime, I am inclined to try before I know, as opposed to toss in the towel before I am sure of what I want to do.

 

After some of the encouragement I got on here, I slept in the guest room last night and did a lot of thinking. When she came in in the morning, (she was already asleep when I went to bed) she seemed hurt that I didnt sleep in our bed and asked me why. My answer was: get a new job or OM has to get a new job - non-negotiable; more effort, more focus on this marriage if you want it. if you dont want it, leave; this marriage comes first, before work, before your father's issues, before your sister's issues. If you cant do that, leave. She didnt say a word and left to get in the shower. I didn't chase her or initiate contact with her after she got out. She came back and said she didn't like me demanding things but agreed to work on all of those things i mentioned. Again, talk is cheap, we'll see what actions follow it up. In the meantime, I have to steel myself to be strong and make consequences if she doest follow up.

 

One issue I do have is that our counselor is, in my opinion, weak. While she acknowledges my wife's selfish, reckless and immature behavior, she appears to enable it by not asking her tough questions or pushing for her to give the tough answers. While I try very hard to look critically at myself when she pushes on me, she lets my wife squeak by whenever she's put on the spot. Not being familiar with counselors, I dont know if this is standard or if we should look for another one.

 

Back to present, something did seem to shift in my thoughts last night. I thought pretty hard about the OM (in that thread Jstab recommended, someone mentioned the phrase - cheaters always cheat down, BS's always recover up). I realized that in the grand scheme of things, that's exactly the case in this situation. I won't list what I see as his shortcomings (beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there is someone for everyone) but lets just say prior to her affair, this guy banged one of her friends on a neighbor's front porch while walking back from the bar drunk one night. I bring this up only because at some point last night, i began to look at this situation as if something was wrong with her - that she needs a lot of help, that she is (at least right now) not the person I thought she was when we got married - the pedestal is crumbling a little bit.

 

I guess there is no doubt that our relationship may not have gotten off on the best start but I dont think that necessarily invalidates the relationship. We did have a lot of happy times, we were in love at one point but things may have just gotten off track.

 

The strange thing Mack is that the changes that occurred in me started before the affair. I won't be naive enough to say I have changed completely and am a new man but I did realize (on my own) that I was not putting enough effort into the marriage and making my wife happy.

 

Unfortunately, her sister was in a bad motorcycle accident last night and we are headed to her family's house and hospital over the weekend (the hits keep on coming...). I questioned whether I should go or not and decided that I wanted to do right by her family and be there. I do intend to toughen up and take control of the situation. I will let you all know how it goes.

 

Again - you all have my deepest appreciation for your comments.

[dingo]

This is why I only recommend Michelle Langley's 'Women's Infidelity' to betrayed men. Langley simply spells out (rather bluntly) the situation from an educated female perspective designed to enlighten and empower. There is no 'plan'. No coddling. Read it and you'll figure it out for yourself. In time, you're realize all you really have is what you'll choose, or not choose.

 

Thank you for recommending this book. The introduction to it on her website is fascinating and describes exactly everything thats happened to my wife and our relationship in the last 6 months. I passed the link onto her in the hopes that she would read the introduction and offered to buy the book if she would read it with me. Regardless of her answer, I will be buying the book and reading it myself.

[dingo]

I oversimplified the conversation. There were no ultimatums. More along the lines of:

'As long as you have daily interactions with OM, you cannot be 100% in this relationship. To give our marriage a real chance, I would like you to start looking into a different job.'

 

She brought up the idea of asking him to change. Supposedly he offered it to her when she first told him no more contact. He apparently 'cares about her so much that he's willing to do that for her marriage' - i read that as 'lemme say some sensitive **** to get into your pants again.'

 

The other issues of focus on us and effort, etc were stated similarly. I can't give ultimatums now because I am probably not prepared for her to call my bluff. When/if they become appropriate, I want them to have some teeth and consequences.

[2sunny]

I think you are taking action to gain some power back - which is good.

 

Is your wife showing you ALL her communication with everyone? Complete transparency?

 

My gut says they ARE STILL talking on intimate terms/ levels. His "offer" to change jobs means they've talked intimately ! And I'd bet money there's a plan in place for them to continue communicating after he changes jobs!

 

IF she's willing to repair the damage SHE caused - SHE should take that consequence!!!

 

Is it her habit or pattern for others to always do her dirty work? It shows her sense of entitlement!

 

It puts the ACTION into another persons hands - making YOU at the mercy of what HE does or DOESN'T DO! NOOOOOOO!

 

IF she intends to save the M - SHE needs to be taking ACTION! SHE needs to also be completely transparent!

 

Start checking her phone bill meticulously! I think she's still cheating!!!

[Jstub]

Dingo - you seem like a very intelligent person. I really like the way you look at yourself and you seem very realistic and honest with yourself.

 

I understand when you say, you don't want to give up on this and just throw in the towel in a sense without trying. That is honorable and may be the right thing to do. However, it is very very important to understand that, saving your marriage now in the wrong way, means the same thing happening a couple of months down the line. Please believe me, I have been through this - I have "saved" my marriage from 2 affairs... 2... you get it? It's a very tricky situation. The key is, the steps need to come from her - the fact that you asked her to change jobs is just a red flag in itself. REMORSE is key - if she was remorseful... guess what? She would have quit her job long time ago. She would have never said "let's see what happens"... come on...

 

Let me give you an example. I once cheated on a person, because I was just plain stupid. It was eating me alive...I confessed and begged for forgiveness, I explained myself a 100 times over and over again, I put up with her anger outbursts, I was understanding, I INSTANTLY cut all communication, I was FULLY transparent, I took the time to comfort my partner etc. Had my partner back then instantly forgiven me, I would have definitely lost respect for her.

 

You got it backwards my friend. If she is serious about this marriage, she should take all the steps towards you... it is very very important. The key issue here is that, she completely blames you for her cheating and the fact that you are agreeing with her in a sense, is making her lose respect for you (YOU CANNOT LOVE A PERSON YOU DO NOT RESPECT) and trying to validate her actions and possibly seeing how things go with OM. A woman wants to secure some kind of support, prior to moving on. It is natural, as they are more emotional.

 

As for your ego and self esteem, damn right they are screwed up right now. Your wife cheated on you!!!! You feel worthless, not good enough, oh I had the best one out there, how will I ever find someone like her... I was not man enough to keep her satisfied... This is all normal and it's part of the process.

 

I can assure you though - There are MANY women out there that will appreciate you. I am not saying you will find someone right away that is perfect and that should not be your goal anyway. You may find someone who will fulfill certain needs you have at the moment. Life works in mysterious ways. You attract what you put out there. This is very true. When I needed to be with someone nice, caring and a great listener, I found someone that fit that role EXACTLY. When I needed to have some crazy sex to blow off some steam, yup, I met someone that gave me EXACTLY that. I can go on and on. If you sit there and feel that you are not worthy - that is EXACTLY what you will get - just crap, nada. Think about it and remember be honest and do not trick people - that will come back to you.

 

Don't let the "oh i will not meet someone like her" be the reason you stay. Do not be afraid.

 

I am glad you are feeling better by reading the posts of LS people. It is really funny - When I was going through my situation and had made my 20 page post - I was getting great advice and a lot of times, I never listened to it, because I was just too afraid, too in love etc. After a few months, I reread my post and what I thought to myself - that would have been the exact advice I would have given to that person (meaning me...) It is a good exercise - What advice would you give yourself if you were the observer?

 

The difference is, when you give advice to other people, you think with your head, because you have no emotional investment. Whereas, the actions you take for yourself, are plagued by (sometimes toxic) emotions. Listen to your head my friend. That is EXACTLY why, after any rough break up, a few months down the line, you think back and you say "WHAT THE F WAS I THINKING?" ... yea.. you were not thinking, that is the problem.

 

Keep STRONG!

[dingo]

His offer to change jobs was presented two weeks ago when she told him the affair was over. Are they still talking on intimate terms? Who knows? probably? they work closely together, how does the conversation not turn into personal topics at some point? The simple fact is, i don't know and I will never know so there's not a lot of point in trying to figure it out. Her actions will tell me where she is with me which will then tell me where she is with him.

 

Same is true for complete transparency. I have access to her cell phone and facebook and primary email accounts. Is there another account that i don't know about? If she reveals that one, what is stopping her from opening another free account. Again, its impossible to know.

 

Yes, she does have a sense of entitlement. She's always been Daddy's girl.

 

Unfortunately she has a great position and he's a bit of a deadbeat. On his exceptional days, he's a mediocre performer and doesn't have the respect or support of the people he works with (she really shot for the moon on this....). While it may be a convenient excuse, it really would be better for everyone (from a strictly practical standpoint) if he left his job.

 

Will you be better, stronger, happier, no matter what? YES! YES you will!

I know this is the case and I also know that healing for me will be a much cleaner process than healing for her. It keeps me strong.

[dingo]

Well we just got to her fathers house and she actually read womens infidelity for the entire 3 hour trip. I had downloaded and printed out a copy read the entire thing in about 90 mins and took notes/highlighted key points. We discussed some of it but mostly she just sat and read.

 

Conversation eventually shifted to the affair and what the attraction was. Apparently he was more attentive to her, was more fun to hang out with and was a good father (he has a son from a previous marriage). Apparently there was also 'if I get divorced' planning for the future. That was pretty tough to hear but I did appreciate her willingness to discuss it civilly.

 

He did agree to start looking for a new job and I told her she should too just in case. I told her I wanted her to be with me only if she is truely remorseful, loves me and is willing to do whatever it takes to make it work. She agreef to it all. She then asked if we could just try to hang out as a couple for the rest of the weekend, which I agreed to.

 

Optimistic but not letting down my guard and will continue to consider my side of the decision. Honestly, I was somewhat looking forward to meeting someone else earlier in the day.

[Steadfast]

Optimistic but not letting down my guard and will continue to consider my side of the decision. Honestly, I was somewhat looking forward to meeting someone else earlier in the day.

 

Sending encouragement to you for this very positive change of direction. Keep your head and heart working in harmony. It isn't who's wrong or right, it's what's wrong or right. Diet and rest are critically important. Breathe.

[dingo]

Thanks for the positive thoughts. Today is a new day. Still struggling with the transparency. Shes resistant and wants my trust back easily- which I cant do. I want more affection and attention - which isnt easy for her to give. Neither turn on and off like a switch so we seem to be at an impasse. It sucks because in my mind, giving one will make the other much easier to give. We do seem to be getting along and enjoying ourselves so thats something good.

 

Im also match.comming. so thats a boost for me when I feel needy.

[2sunny]

Thanks for the positive thoughts. Today is a new day. Still struggling with the transparency. Shes resistant and wants my trust back easily- which I cant do. I want more affection and attention - which isnt easy for her to give. Neither turn on and off like a switch so we seem to be at an impasse. It sucks because in my mind, giving one will make the other much easier to give. We do seem to be getting along and enjoying ourselves so thats something good.

 

Im also match.comming. so thats a boost for me when I feel needy.

 

Unless she's willing to start showing all her cards and get completely open about her methods of communication - she's still hiding something(s).

 

How could you begin to trust her if she's blocking you from seeing what she's up to? You can't!

 

And if you are referencing being on a dating site - I'm disgusted... I hope you're not trailing other women to date while you say you're trying to fix the marriage.

 

Are you afraid to be alone?