wife troubles...

[2sunny]

Well we just got to her fathers house and she actually read womens infidelity for the entire 3 hour trip. I had downloaded and printed out a copy read the entire thing in about 90 mins and took notes/highlighted key points. We discussed some of it but mostly she just sat and read.

 

Conversation eventually shifted to the affair and what the attraction was. Apparently he was more attentive to her, was more fun to hang out with and was a good father (he has a son from a previous marriage). Apparently there was also 'if I get divorced' planning for the future. That was pretty tough to hear but I did appreciate her willingness to discuss it civilly.

 

He did agree to start looking for a new job and I told her she should too just in case. I told her I wanted her to be with me only if she is truely remorseful, loves me and is willing to do whatever it takes to make it work. She agreef to it all. She then asked if we could just try to hang out as a couple for the rest of the weekend, which I agreed to.

 

Optimistic but not letting down my guard and will continue to consider my side of the decision. Honestly, I was somewhat looking forward to meeting someone else earlier in the day.

 

Where is HER ACTION in all this?

 

Did she begin looking for a new job?

 

Did she hand you her phone to look through?

 

Give you her email passwords?

 

You are taking the lead and stating what you need - but is her response simply to DO nothing and offer some weekend fun instead of revealing her truth and how she intends to implement change?

[dingo]

Am I afraid to be alone?

 

Maybe I am. Havent thought about it. Maybe im attention starved as ive been little more than a roomate for 3 months.

 

I guess I dont know what to say about dating sites. It is giving me a distraction when I want her attention and is giving me some perspective that there are others out there. Im not asking for nor entertaining any dates. Is this such a horrible thing?

[dingo]

Where is HER ACTION in all this?

 

Did she begin looking for a new job?

So she claims

 

Did she hand you her phone to look through?

No

Give you her email passwords?

No

You are taking the lead and stating what you need - but is her response simply to DO nothing and offer some weekend fun instead of revealing her truth and how she intends to implement change?

 

She has revealed some but nothing definitive about change yet..

[2sunny]

Am I afraid to be alone?

 

Maybe I am. Havent thought about it. Maybe im attention starved as ive been little more than a roomate for 3 months.

 

I guess I dont know what to say about dating sites. It is giving me a distraction when I want her attention and is giving me some perspective that there are others out there. Im not asking for nor entertaining any dates. Is this such a horrible thing?

 

It's not positive for rebuilding your M.

 

How can you stay focused on the M - tell your wife what you need from her while spending your time and energy on other women? You can't do BOTH effectively.

 

Proper order is key!

 

IF you want to date - then do it AFTER you're divorced. IF you intend to save the M - then tell your W what you NEED from her! IF she's not willing to DO anything and everything for benefitting the M - then it's not HER priority!

 

Finish one thing BEFORE starting another.

 

It hurts feelings - just the thought of you focusing on single women while trying to get your wife's attention (which she's not really giving you) is backwards.

 

First figure out IF you intend to stay married. Figure out IF your wife meets your needs(obviously not) figure out what you need HER to be doing/not doing! IF she's not willing to act married - then divorce her BEFORE starting things up with other women.

[Oberfeldwebel]

Neither of you are committed to this relationship nor can it recover until you do. How can you trust her when she is still in daily contact with the other man? How can she be affectionate with a man that is on a dating site, in search of her replacement? This marriage doesn’t have to end, but it will unless you two start being brutally honest with one another and commit to reconciliation.

 

She has to get a new job ……period. If you remember in your own situation, you were exchanging emails with an ex and it affected your relationship. You weren’t having physical contact or even talking about relationship things, but still you got a tingle just getting an email from her. Think how much more that would be if you had saw her every day, even if the conversation was professional. There would still be the looks, the casual touch, or just physical closeness looking at the same drawing or whatever she does at work. Their relationship will always be defined by the affair. If he leaves, he is the martyr to the situation. It is a statement that he loves her enough to do this for her, with you on the other side demanding that he leaves. She has to leave, because she wants to save her marriage and no other reason.

 

You have to be secure enough that you will be fine regardless if she stays or goes, but you need to disenroll in the dating sites. Purposely trying to make her jealous is a poor plan to goad her into reconciliation. You need to show your attractiveness to her and the number one thing that attracts women is confidence. That is why you can see a man that is uglier than 9 miles of bad road with a beautiful women. Exercise is a good way to relieve stress and make for a healthier you. Hobbies can be a good thing to show you are an interesting individual. You don’t need to be glued to her, or be afraid to lose her, you are choosing to be with her.

 

Reconciliation cannot begin until you two take down the fences and commit to the relationship. This must start with honesty, both of you need to give up passwords to phones and social media site (except LS). You need to take down dating site connections. You may want to talk to counselor one on one about the direction of the counseling, she works for you. It does you no good if you have no confidence or resent her technique. If both of you aren't committed then you are just marking time until you divorce. Time to get serious.

[dingo]

It's not positive for rebuilding your M.

 

How can you stay focused on the M - tell your wife what you need from her while spending your time and energy on other women? You can't do BOTH effectively.

 

Proper order is key!

 

IF you want to date - then do it AFTER you're divorced. IF you intend to save the M - then tell your W what you NEED from her! IF she's not willing to DO anything and everything for benefitting the M - then it's not HER priority!

 

Finish one thing BEFORE starting another.

 

It hurts feelings - just the thought of you focusing on single women while trying to get your wife's attention (which she's not really giving you) is backwards.

 

First figure out IF you intend to stay married. Figure out IF your wife meets your needs(obviously not) figure out what you need HER to be doing/not doing! IF she's not willing to act married - then divorce her BEFORE starting things up with other women.

 

Obviously all good points. Im struggling with the attraction vs attachment. Its clear that the attachment is there. I need to see the things that come with the attraction. How soon should I expect to see those things come back? She says shes working on them but is not a switch.

 

Hobbies friends exercise etc havent been a problem and arent now. In hindsight, I probably should have maintained my individual plans this weekend instead of going with her despite the family emergency.

 

maybe its important to consider that she is back in the house, says shes committed and appears to have stopped the shady behavior? Maybe I cant demand instant change?

 

My intent is not to make her jealous. Nevertheless if the consensus is that I stop the social sites, I will bow to your collective wisdom.

[2sunny]

It's not likely to work out - because neither one of you seem to be "all in"!

[dingo]

I certainly felt like I was. What I see as her lack of all in has probably begun to sink in. Maybe I need patience

[aliveagain]

Install a keylogger, you will find out quickly if she has any secret email accounts. You can't fix a marriage by yourself, she needs to be just as committed to the marriage or why waste a couple of years in false reconciliation? In the time you would waste in false reconciliation you could be well on your way to being healed. You have nothing to prove to her friend, it's the other way around and sometimes you just need to walk away before they take you seriously. Wayward's count on your fear of loss to maintain their control over you, they want to keep you for stability while they get their other needs met by the excitement of the affair. The affair is a total illusion because neither of them are showing each other who they really are. They have to live together for a few months before that happens and by then it's too late, your gone. What respectable husband would want the OM's sloppy seconds after he becomes tired of her?

 

You need to tell her very clearly that she as an adult is free to date who ever she wants, just not as your wife. Continued contact with him is the same as dating because you won't be able to see the difference, trust me on that one. Don't accept any more hurt, you can stop this any time you want not by trying to control her but by removing yourself from the drama. Get your dignity back by refusing to be her doormat, remember, she did this to you willingly, it was a conscious choice.

[2sunny]

I certainly felt like I was. What I see as her lack of all in has probably begun to sink in. Maybe I need patience

 

Does that "past tense" mean that NOW you aren't "all in"?

 

IF you aren't all in - why not tell her it's simply over?

[dingo]

That is good, sound advice alive.

 

Here is my conflict, wife and counselor are saying patience, let her go through her withdrawl and no ultimatums. Most folks here are saying opposite. Its easy to say just quit a 80k per year job but the reality and practicality is different. Unfortunately, my gut (even prior to starting this thread is more in line with the advice im getting here while she is using the counselors advice as her backing.

 

Am I all in? I guess I am in general. I have my moments where I am ready to toss it in if I dont see more from her.

[aliveagain]

Don't make it an ultimatum just tell her what you need to stay in the marriage, ie: transparency, no contact with OM, ever, fidelity(be clear on what that entails, meeting men for drinks, dinner or lunch on her own). Let her decide for herself if you and the marriage are worth those boundaries. If she won't agree to them why wait, she already left the marriage when she became emotionally attached to the other man. You are your strongest at time of confrontation, the longer it takes to get her to agree on your boundaries the less likely she will be willing to do so. The problem here is she's not really remorseful yet because she doesn't fear loosing you. A remorseful spouse will do anything to save their marriage, they will show it emotionally not matter-of-factly. Take steps to protect yourself, talk to a lawyer, protect finances, plan for the worst and hope for the best but leave nothing to chance. Weakness, waiting for her to choose the marriage are traits that Wayward spouse's find unattractive. Take control of yourself because you don't know what she will ultimately decide. You may not like who she now is.

[Darren Steez]

Of course she's confused. She had a two year affair? She still works with OM. You fully admit you can't control her so you still dont know what she's up to..how things are suddenly professional after a two year affair, you expect her and OM to suddenly turn off their feelings and emotions. Little stolen moments between the two of them..then she comes home to you. Reality hits her.

 

She cannot fight for the marriage while she still works there. Classic cake eating.

[dingo]

2 month affair..but youre right. The co-employment cant continue. I will bring this up in our counseling tomorrow.

Edited August 4, 2013 by dingo

[Steadfast]

Of course she's confused. She had a two year affair? She still works with OM. You fully admit you can't control her...

 

True, but he never could. Nor should he try. That's not love. It's true for all of us dingo and the basis of a happy, healthy relationship. Unless the two wish to be together, it'll crumble. You are rebuilding, which means you're attempting to back out of the mess. Because of that, it'll get...messy.

 

It's conjecture on my part, but I think many betrayers are reluctant to try because they fear a power shift. I'd wager your wife isn't keen on kissing your ass until you feel all better, but her actions dictate that's exactly what she should do. She ordered the meal but isn't crazy about paying the bill.

 

The positive aspect of divorce is often increased awareness of one's own faults and weaknesses. This can make us better, stronger, more humble and self-sufficient people. Fact: It isn't your wife's job to make you happy, nor is it your responsibility to 'make sure' she's telling the truth and being transparent. Shame, fear, and sense of obligation only drive people towards reconciliation but those emotions are incapable of sustaining it.

 

The key is, and always has been, desire. In my opinion, the time and energy invested installing key-loggers, VAR devices or hiring P.I.s could be better spent on items needed to restore balance and productivity. Will it ever be enough? Will positive results from them replace faith and trust?

 

I'd rather just file and move on than live that miserable existence.

[karnak]

It's conjecture on my part, but I think many betrayers are reluctant to try because they fear a power shift. I'd wager your wife isn't keen on kissing your ass until you feel all better, but her actions dictate that's exactly what she should do. She ordered the meal but isn't crazy about paying the bill.

 

The positive aspect of divorce is often increased awareness of one's own faults and weaknesses. This can make us better, stronger, more humble and self-sufficient people. Fact: It isn't your wife's job to make you happy, nor is it your responsibility to 'make sure' she's telling the truth and being transparent. Shame, fear, and sense of obligation only drive people towards reconciliation but those emotions are incapable of sustaining it.

 

 

Very true. Most betrayed spouses, after finding out they've been cheated on, want to create a sort of "fantasy marriage", where infidelity never happened and things are as if no wrong ever occured.

 

And they want the betrayer to act like if he/she suffered amnesia and the OM/OW never existed. No sex, no intimacy with a 3rd party. NOTHING.

 

Alas, no-one can erase the past.

[Mr. Lucky]

Alas, no-one can erase the past.

Marriage do recover from infidelity but it take a committed and forgiving BS and a committed and remorseful WS. Right now Dingo has only half of the equation covered. Specifically:

I caught her in another lie. She claimed that she was going to visit her father but was in fact out of town with the OM. When I called her on that, she came rushing home, claimed no more lies and that she just needed one last 'date.'

Were she truly trying to repair your marriage, she'd have gone NC with the OM.

With respect to her continuing to work with the OM. It is indeed a point that I am not really comfortable with. She works in a small office and has daily interactions with this person on various projects. That's how the relationship started to begin with.

As part of going NC, she'd have immediately taken a LOA from her job while she looked for other employment.

She has a very hard time talking about the future. Those conversations usually end with her being 'stressed out' and 'feeling like there's no hope for us.' Then of course its all better in the morning or after we've had a bit of time apart.

And lastly, rather than being caught up in her own angst, she take on the burden of reassuring you.

 

It's admirably male of you to want to do the heavy lifting involved in fixing your marriage. But unless she contributes equally, she'll have no equity in the outcome. And sticking with the real estate analogies, that usually means a marital "short sale" in the future...

 

Mr. Lucky

[dingo]

Very true. Most betrayed spouses, after finding out they've been cheated on, want to create a sort of "fantasy marriage", where infidelity never happened and things are as if no wrong ever occured.

 

And they want the betrayer to act like if he/she suffered amnesia and the OM/OW never existed. No sex, no intimacy with a 3rd party. NOTHING.

 

Alas, no-one can erase the past.

 

 

I am not expecting, nor do I want this. My goal in all of this (I know it seems like I want to save the marriage - and that is certainly a secondary goal) is to understant what happened, why it happened, try to overcome it and in the process, both become better people for it - regardless of whether we move onto other relationships or stay together. Analyzing and understanding this can only help us both. At the very least, I am committed to that. What she does with this opportunity (to learn about herself and reality) is, just like everything else, something I cannot control.

 

While I do not deny the fact that she is not yet 100% committed, I do believe that her level of commitment is steadily increasing. As an example, I just snuck downstairs to peek on what she's doing and she's reading Women's Infidelity (for a second time - without me asking her to). I am trying to provide leadership and a stern rudder while also being patient with the things she's coming to terms with in her own head. Primarily that she's not the 100% innocent person that most people think they are and is capable of doing hurtful things to people she loves. When I've had enough, I've had enough. While I agree that the ideal solution is a 100% remorseful WS that flips on like a switch, I don't know if thats always a fair expectation.

 

Regardless of whether she becomes committed to reconciliation, I will be considering my own position in the meantime (can I trust her, do i want to live through the misery of anxiety and tension to get to where I trust her, etc). Again, that's all I can control.

[2sunny]

You can control what YOU expect.

 

You can decide on a healthy boundary for yourself...and what that looks like for you.

 

You can decide (and state) what you need from her in order to feel as if she's owning her bad behavior and taking steps to repair the damage she caused.

 

You can also ask her about things you need to know before you see the counselor - and expect her to answer all your questions calmly.

 

Are you doing those things?

[dingo]

I am definitely doing those things. The needs have been spelled out, my expectations are clear in my mind (and have been communicated). The only thing that I still don't know is what my boundary will be as far as how long I can be patient.

 

I have made her aware of some of the books and websites recommended here and some that I have found on my own (I found Marriage Builders back before I knew there was an affair - in fact, information there made me start to consider it). Thus far, she has been foundering on her own (except for our counselor who, as I have said, has yet to impress me much). I hope she reaches out and starts to get some real perspective as to what is going on in our relationship and with her.

 

I also intend to give our counselor Women's Infidelity and ask her to read it, if she has not already. I want to start talking about those topics in our joint sessions.

[2sunny]

Besides reading a few books - what has your wife been proactively doing?

 

Don't list crying... Tears can be for a million reasons.

 

What solid action is she doing to prove you should be able to trust her again someday?

 

She should be willing to do 4 times the effort you're doing - after all - she's the one who's broken on the inside and needs to figure out what made her cheat - and how she's never going to be that vulnerable and needy again.

[dingo]

Besides reading a few books - what has your wife been proactively doing?

Nothing

 

Don't list crying... Tears can be for a million reasons.

hasn't cried much either - neither of us have.

 

What solid action is she doing to prove you should be able to trust her again someday?

Nothing, though I havent been able to find any records of contact with om or otherwise shady behavior.

 

She should be willing to do 4 times the effort you're doing - after all - she's the one who's broken on the inside and needs to figure out what made her cheat - and how she's never going to be that vulnerable and needy again.

There will be a very difficult conversation at counseling tomorrow and firm decisions will be made - hopefully by her but if not, by me.

 

ten characters

[Mr. Lucky]

Nothing, though I havent been able to find any records of contact with om or otherwise shady behavior.

I'm going to assume you mean other than the 8+ hours they spend together five days a week at work ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[2sunny]

Almost 3 weeks in and she's doing nothing?

 

That wouldn't show me willingness to own bad behavior and changing what made the cheating occur.

 

I think she expects you to overlook her cheating without any consequences for her.

 

 

She needs a new job today!

[dingo]

I'm going to assume you mean other than the 8+ hours they spend together five days a week at work ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

yes, clearly besides that.

 

I decided not to wait for counseling - the gauntlet has been thrown down. You have to get a new job to for me to stay in this marriage. We'll talk about it when we get home tonight.