Here goes

[RightThere]

My back story: We've been together for 8 years, married for 5. One child (4 years old).

 

I know my wife hasn't been happy for a while, but this week she sent me an email (I know) at work that she wanted to separate for a while. We would trade on and off weeks at our house. She said she wants some space.

 

She said she loves me, but is not "in love" with me anymore. She doesn't feel desired or wanted anymore. She is a very social person so she is always out with her friends. I don't want to stop her, so I've always given her that freedom. I know she is not having a physical affair, but she does bounce from person to person for "emotional affairs". She also has a lot of "family and work baggage" but I seem to get the brunt of her frustration.

 

I'm still in shock right now and I told her I will work very hard to repair our marriage. But I have a question about this "180" approach.

 

If she's feeling ignored and undesired, wouldn't this approach probably push her further away? We've scheduled to go and see a counselor, but this wasn't something I thought I should bring up there.

 

If we schedule some family activity time, should I just act normal during it, and then just give her the "180" the rest of the time?

 

I have my faults in this relationship (I've missed some very important dates over the past year) but I feel like she is pushing all of the responsibility onto me to fix the relationship.

[Mr. Lucky]

I have my faults in this relationship (I've missed some very important dates over the past year) but I feel like she is pushing all of the responsibility onto me to fix the relationship.

Blaming you is part of a process on her part to justify something she's either done or contemplates doing. Her approach is very different from someone with a legitimate commitment to work on a struggling marriage. Spouses rarely jump this quickly (via email ???) without someplace to land.

 

Do you have access to email/cell/bank accounts? You should research the activity in each simply to know where you stand...

 

Mr. Lucky

[RightThere]

Do you have access to email/cell/bank accounts? You should research the activity in each simply to know where you stand...

 

I do have access, but I don't need to check. I know that there is no physical affair going on. And if I get to the point where I have to do this, then there is no trust in our relationship and I would move on.

 

And I could be wrong on the emotional affair, but right now they are much more companionship and common interests. My wife and I are definitely "opposites attract". And I always felt that a healthy relationship included interests outside of our own and being comfortable doing things on our own.

 

So if I'm playing the 180 game, and she's playing the 180 game, our relationship just dies right there?

[RightThere]

So right now then, we're in the same house, separate rooms. That will probably change in the next week or so, but in the meantime, do I just avoid her totally in the house? If she initiates talking, do I just keep it totally brief?

 

She says she is 50/50 on wanting to work it out. So I'm sure some of the discussion will be about changes we want to make for the better in our relationship. Do I entertain that? Or just simply push it back to her to initiate any change?

 

We're doing a little family outing this weekend, so do I just give her the cold shoulder the whole time and only focus on our child? Or just be pleasant but keep conversation to a minimum?

 

Also, has anyone every told their significant other they are getting the "180" until they make some changes? Pointless to do so?

[RightThere]

Who is moving? You or her? Help her pack her bags with a goofy grin on your face.

 

We're going to do separate weeks away from the house during our "break". Her away one week, me the next (so our child is not moving around.)

 

She'll be a her friend's house, me probably at my parents.

[Mr. Lucky]

I do have access, but I don't need to check. I know that there is no physical affair going on. And if I get to the point where I have to do this, then there is no trust in our relationship and I would move on.

There may indeed not be a physical affair going on. But spouses - especially wives - don't bail without notice unless there's a plan in mind. And in these instances, knowledge is power.

 

Again, her actions are not those of a spouse committed to working on your marriage. Right now, I'd guess you're her Plan B, the fallback position in case things don't work out. The 180 is one of the tools available to you to counteract that...

 

Mr. Lucky

[RightThere]

There may indeed not be a physical affair going on. But spouses - especially wives - don't bail without notice unless there's a plan in mind. And in these instances, knowledge is power.

 

Again, her actions are not those of a spouse committed to working on your marriage. Right now, I'd guess you're her Plan B, the fallback position in case things don't work out. The 180 is one of the tools available to you to counteract that...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

She did have a plan when she dropped this on me. She had already been talking to one of her friends and arranged to stay at her place. I've told her before I feel like probably the 5th most important person in her life. She said it's not true, but she is a "runner". Lots of abandonment issues so I really feel this 180 thing is going to make her run.

[Oberfeldwebel]

The 180 is not a cure-all to all marriage problems and sometimes can be counter productive. Where it works best is when she says she wants to leave, but what she really wants you to do is stay committed beg and plead for her to stay. This lets her know that you are a solid Plan B, if the need arises. She then is free to explore Plan A, even if it is not completely solid, because she has you in her back pocket. Now all she has to do is email, call or see you to keep you on the hook.

 

The 180 keeps the turmoil of the verbal interactions to a minimum, thus allowing you to heal. It also sends her the signal, maybe he is not going to be the obedient little puppy that I had hoped he would be. This Plan A thing will not look quite so good, because now there is a risk to her security and women are naturally big on security.

 

If she has changed her mind and is committing to try and save the marriage, then the 180 is not what you want to do as you are just distancing yourself intentionally, particularly where your lack of emotional availability was part of the problem. Many people on here will have an opinion and are very much well intended, but there is no way we can get the whole picture from a few posts of information. Therefore you have to take the advise and use it as it pertains to you. The only thing you can do in life is your best.

[Oberfeldwebel]

People separate for 2 reasons, one is two allow for healing and gain perspective or two to prepare for divorce. I am not sure of the purpose of this separation. If you intend to separate and alternate weeks that is fine, but what happens after 30, 60, 90 days? What is the long range goal?

If this is a transition to divorce then fine. However if the goal is to fix the marriage, then I recommend that you further define the timeline of the separations. For example:

1-30 days Alternate weeks in home. Limit contact to only essential communication for child and continuity. No dating other people. Possibly do individual counseling.

30-60 days Alternate weeks in home, but plan family events and light dates. Physical contact is fine but no sex, continue counseling.

60-90 days Alternate weeks in home, but plan weekends together and add sex back into the equation. At the end of the 90 days you will plan on how to move forward. If either party is not ready to proceed to the next step, renegotiate for the next 30 day period and beyond. If either party is not able to move forward, then look to negotiate an end to the relationship.

[RonaldS]

The 180 is not a cure-all to all marriage problems and sometimes can be counter productive.

 

Case in point:

 

When my XW left, she engaged in all that 180 stuff. I recognize it now that I'm more familiar with it. When she had left, very little damage had been done. But the message that I got was that she left and just worried about herself and her life and wasn't ever going to try for our marriage. She just acted like she was past it and she was moving on.

 

The way I took it is that she didn't care enough about our marriage to fight for it, that she wasn't committed to us, and that she was happy to be out of it. I figured, 'well, I guess it's over', and then some REAL damage occurred.

 

Months later the fog cleared and I went to her and told her what had happened but that I was beyond sorry, only wanted her, wanted to fix it, etc etc. She was DEVASTATED. She still is. Now, is it likely that things wouldn't have worked out ultimately? Maybe. But that move was a misstep and helped ensure it wouldn't. When your spouse expresses strong feelings that he/she isn't happy in the marriage, doesn't think it's remotely equitable, doesn't think you put effort into it or her/him, and he/she is questioning the entire nature of the relationship, don't turn around and run away and then pretend he doesn't exist.

 

Moral of the story? Things can and do backfire badly.

[RightThere]

I'm hoping this becomes more of a personal log for me. I'll keep throwing out my thoughts and actions and feel free to keep up with the feedback.

 

I will admit, the 180 is hard. I got out, did things, didn't seem at all interested in what was going on with her. While we were in the house together, she would try to keep up general conversation, but I kept my own answers short.

 

Sunday was a pre-planned family activity. As we were loading up the car, I broke the cardinal rule of the 180. I told her what I was really feeling. We have a meeting scheduled with a counselor, but I ask her "Are you interested in working things out? Not just so that we have a family unit and raise our child together, but also interested in working things out with just the two of us?"

 

She said she was. Not 100% committed at this point, but wanted to try that.

 

We also had a couple of open conversations (which I initiated) about where we were at. She admitted to "checking out" of our relationship for a while now. Someone once described their life as a bunch of buckets. They have their personal bucket, their career bucket, wife bucket, kids bucket, health bucket, etc. I don't know why it triggered that thought in my head, but I recognize my wife bucket has been on the empty side for a while.

 

I appreciate the responses on the flip side of the 180 approach. Although I don't view my situation as totally unique, and that the 180 approach does have merit, I believe the outcome for my wife and I with a total 180 approach (two very stubborn people who possibly do want to try and work things out) may have an opposite intended outcome.

[Mr. Lucky]

I appreciate the responses on the flip side of the 180 approach. Although I don't view my situation as totally unique, and that the 180 approach does have merit, I believe the outcome for my wife and I with a total 180 approach (two very stubborn people who possibly do want to try and work things out) may have an opposite intended outcome.

There isn't a 90 version of the 180, no half and half. Its goal is simply to force your spouse to understand early on the consequences of the decisions they make. That they can't have someone else and you also. That if they leave, you won't be standing by. That if they move on, you won't be stuck in place. And that if they bail on their side of the marriage then that releases you also.

 

Supporting and empathizing with your wife while, by her own admission, she's checked out of your marriage points her towards a life without you. Is that what you want ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[RightThere]

I don't disagree with anything that you say.

 

That they can't have someone else and you also. That if they leave, you won't be standing by. That if they move on, you won't be stuck in place.

 

Especially this. Because if this is where our relationship is, then I know I cannot stay in it.

 

However I do not feel as though we are at that point. Maybe she is, but until she says that she doesn't want to try and work it out anymore, then I will continue to work on my 50% of the marriage.

 

We are both very independent people. And I feel a strict 180 approach will have the effect of making us feel like the other is totally uninterested in working anything out.

 

If I'm wrong on all this, then everyone can come back here later and have an "I was right party" at my expense.

[RightThere]

Went to our first couples counselling session. I won't be sharing details of what goes on in them out of respect for the process.

 

However we both committed to taking separation off the table for 3 months. I can tell you I was out of my mind before going into the session because I had a worst case scenario built up in my head that she was going simply to have the counselor counsel us through separating.

 

I was open about my failures within the marriage (she's been feeling undervalued). But she is very angry at the situation. And this had permeated into the rest of her life (or maybe other frustrations in her life have permeated into our marriage). I think the hardest part about it was when you are supposed to say three things that you like/love about your spouse. She struggled to come up with three on the spot (I anticipated the question was going to come so I was prepared). And the three that she did say were either not ones I really thought were important to our relationship, or just lousy ones.

 

It's difficult to be in this situation because I still don't know how it will play out. However I am committed to some parts of the 180 approach (getting out on my own, focusing on things to improve about myself) because I think that is an important part of the process.

[RightThere]

sorry for the double post....time lapse I guess

 

It was important, and worth hearing twice!

[RightThere]

So we're at the two week mark since my wife asked for a separation. We're both still committed to working on things for three months, no separation.

 

We've got another session with our counselor this week but we are still sleeping in separate rooms. Most physical contact is minimal. We've also committed to going out together this weekend. Probably dinner and a movie.

 

I think we've both been working on our parts of the marriage over the past week, but in talking with her last night, she still carried a lot of anger/resentment/disappointment from things that have happened in the past. No affairs, but fights, letting the other person down, not meeting expectations, etc.

 

I'm looking at it now thinking in the back of my head "If she's not able to move past these things, then we probably won't be able to reconcile." I feel like there are plenty of things that she has done wrong, but I just chose to forgive and forget.

 

For people that have been in similar boats as my wife, is there anything your significant other can do or say to help move past these things?

[Mr. Lucky]

I can only answer from a perspective similar to yours as my ex-wife blamed me for everything wrong in our marriage. And like you, she was probably half right.

 

Since I couldn't undo the past, I tried to get her - with our counselor's help - to focus on the future. It takes a certain emotional maturity to let go of the past - some, including my ex, can never do it. And if that's the case with your wife, the die is cast, might as well file now. As you put it, the past is filled with "anger/resentment/disappointment". If that's going to be her perspective going forward, hard to see how you can progress to a better relationship. Just my $.02...

 

Mr. Lucky

[RightThere]

Had our counseling session yesterday. I really find it to run fairly aimlessly, but it was only our second one. I even said it to the counselor and he agreed that he doesn't want to push anything until he does understand our issues better.

 

To be honest, I find my wife an I communicate better the rest of the time about where we are at, but I know she still had all of her "walls" up. I wont' let myself worry about what she is doing in this however. Just continue to focus on what I need to do in our relationship.

 

Someone had posted a video elsewhere on the "Walkaway Wife Syndrome". Interesting just to give me better understanding of where she is at.

 

But there is so much conflicting advice out there. Some women were very unhappy their husbands didn't try to fight for their relationship after the "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You" speech. Other women respond very well to the 180 approach.

 

I hope I'm not watering down the effects of any of these approaches, but I definitely have a blended approach. I am focused on improving all aspects of myself, including my relationship with my wife, but I know in my heart there will be lines that if they are crossed (affair, being a doormat) that I will have to move on with my life.

 

I just hate how "textbook" arriving at my current situation is. It is very possible that the damage has already been done and my wife is just going through the motions, but I know that however it ends, it won't be from lack of effort on my part (even though arriving at this point is due to lack of effort).

[2sunny]

I'd ask her point blank "are you working to save this marriage or to end it?"

 

You need to know what her goal is!

 

If she's not working toward getting rid of her resentments - then she's really only looking at you to be mad at - and that's not useful to your marriage.

 

What is her goal in attending counseling? To help the M get better or to soften the blow when she tells you she wants to divorce?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I feel like the 180 is an awesome tool, and effective for many situations. And the is no "partial" but also it's mostly effective for personal healing and separating. Sounds like that's nor where you are at...yet.

 

Ok, so from my perspective you may need to fully commit. During the couple months and know that it might not work then implement the 180 at that point.

 

I do think that you should try a couple things, take it or leave it.

 

1. Take one single issue or disappointment she had and discuss it, to death. Poke at it, talk ask how she wished you handled it. Accept what you did wrong, clarify, but do not excuse or justify. Make a deal on how to handle next time.

 

Write it down, both sign it.

 

One at a time. Once or twice a week no more, make an appointment with each other. Till neither of you have ones that need resolution.

 

KEY: talking means back and forth, not one person lecturing the other. If you have trouble hearing the feelings just ask questions.

 

2. Have one date night once a week. No talk of problems. You plan it, make arrangements (incl. child care if needed) just tell her what to where. Every week. Choose different activities.

 

3. Continue to spend time alone, working out, having hobbies, but share your day and thoughts with her.

 

4. I really really like the previous posters idea of asking her level of commitment. It sounds like you don't believe there is anyone else (do I have that right?) so I am curious if there is some other reason for lukewarm commitment? Because if you knew why...then you can customize your approach to address.

 

5. Don't forget you have feelings too, it looks and feels disengenuous if you don't have "issues" to discuss too, like you don't care enough to be pissed off (ok, I know it sounds stupid just bear with me.) so make sure you too have something to contribute.

 

6. This is mushy and all, but while you are "dating" do the romancing things that we forget to invest in over time. I love you notes, texts...pictures of your dates, keep the ticket Stubbs of your dates. Maybe make a scrap book of this whole thing. Your dates, your agreements, your momentos.

 

7. Kiss and hold hands. In public.

 

Good luck.

[RightThere]

I'd ask her point blank "are you working to save this marriage or to end it?"

 

You need to know what her goal is!

 

If she's not working toward getting rid of her resentments - then she's really only looking at you to be mad at - and that's not useful to your marriage.

 

What is her goal in attending counseling? To help the M get better or to soften the blow when she tells you she wants to divorce?

 

I have asked that, and she has said she is willing to work on it. She has not jumped in with both feet, however I will take what commitment she has offered (and there has been some).

 

And it is totally possible that she will go through this entire process only half-heartedly. If that's what happens, then it still won't change what I'm going to do over the next while. I will still work on my part. Either way I can't worry about changing her. She'll either change or she won't.

[RightThere]

I feel like the 180 is an awesome tool, and effective for many situations. And the is no "partial" but also it's mostly effective for personal healing and separating. Sounds like that's nor where you are at...yet.

 

Ok, so from my perspective you may need to fully commit. During the couple months and know that it might not work then implement the 180 at that point.

 

I do think that you should try a couple things, take it or leave it.

 

1. Take one single issue or disappointment she had and discuss it, to death. Poke at it, talk ask how she wished you handled it. Accept what you did wrong, clarify, but do not excuse or justify. Make a deal on how to handle next time.

 

Write it down, both sign it.

 

One at a time. Once or twice a week no more, make an appointment with each other. Till neither of you have ones that need resolution.

 

KEY: talking means back and forth, not one person lecturing the other. If you have trouble hearing the feelings just ask questions.

 

2. Have one date night once a week. No talk of problems. You plan it, make arrangements (incl. child care if needed) just tell her what to where. Every week. Choose different activities.

 

3. Continue to spend time alone, working out, having hobbies, but share your day and thoughts with her.

 

4. I really really like the previous posters idea of asking her level of commitment. It sounds like you don't believe there is anyone else (do I have that right?) so I am curious if there is some other reason for lukewarm commitment? Because if you knew why...then you can customize your approach to address.

 

5. Don't forget you have feelings too, it looks and feels disengenuous if you don't have "issues" to discuss too, like you don't care enough to be pissed off (ok, I know it sounds stupid just bear with me.) so make sure you too have something to contribute.

 

6. This is mushy and all, but while you are "dating" do the romancing things that we forget to invest in over time. I love you notes, texts...pictures of your dates, keep the ticket Stubbs of your dates. Maybe make a scrap book of this whole thing. Your dates, your agreements, your momentos.

 

7. Kiss and hold hands. In public.

 

Good luck.

 

Appreciate all of this. Some I am doing (dates) and some we're working on (counselor brought up the question/answer type discussions).

 

I am without a doubt the over-reacting spouse now (way too much affection, attention, etc) and I've discussed with her that I know it probably comes across as disingenuous. However it's my responsibility that it isn't a temporary fix that trails off. It needs to become a real part of me because it is a love language of hers that I did not speak to her with.

 

And as a side note, if you're familiar with the "5 Love Languages" books, this was something she talked about with me almost since we met (8 years ago). I only just bought the book after she said she wanted to separate.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Yes I am, incredibly insightful book. Simple, easy. Stupidly easy.

 

Good luck.

[Darren Steez]

If she wants space, why not get a divorce?

 

I love the saying, "There's no such thing as a half way crook.."

 

Here are the words you are hearing..

 

50/50 on reconciliation, separate house stays, you say she was a very social person always out with her friends (she went out without you), in emotional affairs if I read right.

 

So two independent people (I read two stubborn people).

 

She 180 you a long time ago, but it was preparing for this detachment. The separation is not for the cliched "finding herself", it's for getting a taste of what the real life is without you.

 

I'll give you a scenerio, think of it this way. One plans a holiday to hawaii, perfect beaches, nice hotels, good food. In your head you're looking forward to this vacation, you see yourself on the beach, having lots of fun, relaxing having a good time, then someone comes and says no lets go to a motel across town and eat at the gas station's restaurant.

 

Your wife is saying 50/50 but that's probably because she doesn't want to let you down. She's detached in her heart and head. Already planned for life outside without you (has been for a while) So when you say let's fix this, you're offering her the motel across town but in her head she's already in Hawaii!

 

180 is not a game. 180 is not pretend. 180 is detachment and letting go. It is clear you want to work on the marriage and fix it, but all the begging in the world is not going to turn her head. She's been unhappy for a while, but either you both act like grown ups and say this is serious, no more playing games, if you want to fix this marriage then we do it but no more leaving you in limbo, because that isn't fair. Be sincere. I want to work on this marriage with all my heart but you must too. If not then let's part ways and you can find your smile without me. Maybe later on you'll discover its me you want but by then it might be too late.

[2sunny]

She's barely throwing you crumbs - but you're willing to take them.

 

Start playing hard ball with her. She doesn't respect you. Without respect - she doesn't love you.

 

Take the lead. Start the divorce papers. She wants to live separate lives - give it to her.

 

She will either wake up or not - but if she's served D papers and she doesn't start acting like your wife - with 150% effort - then she never intended to make it work.

 

Some wives (and husbands) will "ease their way out of the M - all the while making it "appear" that they are working toward reconciling - but really their goal is to divorce.

 

By filing - you will find out if your W is "all in" or simply doesn't care and is "all out".