Here goes

[RightThere]

We both committed to 3 months, no separation. So I won't be heading to the lawyers office until we get to that mark.

 

As for her level of commitment to the process, that is something I cannot control. As I've said before, if she's just "going though the motions" then that doesn't change what I'm doing today.

 

I'm committed to fixing our marriage so I'll put in my full effort into my portion of the marriage. If nothing is done with her portion, then that is where the chips will fall.

[2sunny]

So she feels undervalued...

 

And what action are you taking now to allow her to understand you are participating 150% in the relationship?

 

Actions is what I'm asking about...

[RightThere]

So she feels undervalued...

 

And what action are you taking now to allow her to understand you are participating 150% in the relationship?

 

Actions is what I'm asking about...

 

She is big on the "5 Love Languages" book. Two that were very important to her and that I severely lacked in were Words of Affirmation and Gifts.

 

For the words of affirmation, I've committed to finding 3 things a day to verbalize to her about. She looks great in the outfit, I appreciate her getting our little one dressed in the morning, offering supportive words to a problem she's having, etc. I'm making sure not to force it, so sometimes there is only one a day. And for her right now it feels like I'm just forcing it out. But a long as it become part of what I do everyday, it hopefully will become normal for me.

 

For gifts, I previously had missed her birthday, Christmas, and Valentine's day (and these were just the more recent disappointments in this area). So I've tried to find a little something to get for her every couple of days. We had a date night on Friday, so I did get her a nice outfit to wear out with me. This one is actually much tougher for me, because I can't just get flowers all the time. It's forcing me to think of small, creative ways to fulfill that "gift" part of her love language.

 

Aside from that, I'm also forcing myself to be more positive with her and things she wants to do. I'm a very "glass is half empty" person so if she suggested something in the past, I would always think of the worst case scenario and verbalize that. I would think of it as planning, but she would take it as criticism and "raining on her parade". So now I'm trying to be more positive and supportive on things instead of a Debbie Downer.

 

Lots of other stuff I need to work on, but these are my focus goals right now.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Nice job!

 

Mind some hints?

 

I think the trick if the "gifts" is that it's proof you are thinking of them. it's not just about having something in your hand. For example. A dozen red roses. Nice.

 

But what if you buy a book of what the color of roses mean and you buy ONE rose with a little note as to why she is special - bases on that color.

 

Or get a book of all flowers and get a different one each time, so you have to work at finding a different one.

 

For my anniversary a few years ago, my husband had a flower arrangement made out of my (unusual) bouquet flowers. That really was special.

 

Another would be a special type of (beer, jam, candy, wine) based on her favorite favors. So for example, if she really likes pomegranate then buy Pom cocktail mix, or Pom candy, or a fresh pomegranate. It's more about the "see

I know you" and not only about jewelry and fancy stuff (although that's nice too)

 

And words of affirmation, it's funny, but I used to suck at this. But I started with "thank you" -- so for example...thank you for making dinner that is so nice. I love asparagus. Or thank you for getting gas in my car, it makes me feel good that you did that for me it was so thoughtful.

 

I realized I started to do it at work too and people like it. It's not put on at all. It's not. I mean..."thank you for picking up the dog poop, I hate doing it and the backyard is so nice now." "Thank you for picking up my dirty socks, I know I left them on the floor and was dreading the mess, it's like having a little leprechaun" etc...it became more specific appreciation, but for me it was a start to authentic appreciation.

 

Good luck. This reminds me I need to thank my husband for sweeping down the spider webs (eek).... :-)

[RightThere]

Mind some hints?

 

I'd love some advice. Much appreciated.

 

My goal in this is to improve. The whole reason I came across LS was to learn, take bits and pieces from everywhere, and make my contribution better.

 

I still have a looooooong way to go. Even though I am "all in" I know my wife has her reservations that this is a temporary ruse. It's only been three weeks but I almost felt myself falling into bad habits last night. Had to give myself a bit of a wake-up call and say "What the f$^% is wrong with you? Pick your game back up!"

[revitup]

Look, everyone of us have been in your shoes (in some form or another). We all know how hard it is to deal with a spouse who checks out of your marriage suddenly. It sucks! I mean it royally sucks!

 

I remember being afraid to do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing, act the wrong way. I was terrified of pushing him further out the door, or ruining any chance of fixing it. BUT...BUT! I got to a point (and you may be getting there) where I just couldn't lay there like the doormat I was any longer.

I remember my brother (bless him ) say: Who the hell are you? My sister would tell him to go (you know) and then go do something fun! It was a moment I'll never forget because it was like the "blackness" cleared. He was right! I would never allow myself to be cheated on and lied to. I was perfectly happy before I met him and I knew I could be perfectly happy without him.

I stood up, and I walked away. I went canoeing, I went to the beach, I went out for drinks, hell I even had a bunch of cookouts on the weekends at our house. (he avoided the house like the plague) I didn't care if he was here or not! I took a vacation with some girlfriends, I took some night classes at the local college (computer crap) I came here and read others stories. I did the 180, the complete 180. I told him he could have a cheating whore (she was married too)good luck with it sucka! and I found me again. I found the girl I used to be. (it wasn't easy, and I cried alone every night)

I filed for divorce about a month after he said he wanted one. I gave him the attitude of "you don't have to tell me twice!!". He was living here, fence sitting, so I moved it along. You want out? Go! Find the greener grass stupid! ( a married ho half your age??? whatever) anyway...I wanted in my heart to save my marriage, but I just couldn't let him walk all over me like that, I just couldn't stay with a man who was such a coward. I knew I would be ok, that I would be happy again. I went out on a "date"...it was really just a guy friend who knew it wasn't a date, just dinner. WHOA!! My H came unglued! He was so angry! why? you want out remember? You don't call the shots here anymore, you gave that up remember? You got your little girl....go on with her, and leave me alone!

 

That was 2 years ago. We have a much stronger marriage now.

The 180 isn't a trick, or a game, or a technique. The reason it works is because you get yourself back, you get your MAN CARD back. You are no longer being a pansy that she can "toy" with. You become "Valuable" again. In the process of the 180, you may just find that you don't want her back. I mean let's face it.....

1. You were perfectly happy before you met her, you can be perfectly happy without her. That's a fact.

2. Would the man you were back then ever put up with this BS from a woman? NO!

3. She is in no way the ONLY woman on the planet earth that you can have a happy life with. I'd let her know it too!

 

Don't be afraid to let her go. Don't be afraid to push her too far.

You do what you want. I hope that learning about others experiences will help you move forward. And I sincerely hope that you get what you want. whatever it may be.

 

We were all afraid to do the 180 at some point (because every situation is different) I hope you see that it's not about her, it's about you and how she perceives you.

 

I think we all can learn from this post....not just OP.

 

Wow-I wish I had been invited to beenkilled' BBQ's.......she would be fun to just watch !!!!

 

I have to say-Beenkilled is spot on here,this is powerful stuff.And it helped to save (this is rare though) her marriage!

 

Beenkilled you have the nads many men need to have!

 

Cool stuff

 

And I bet you wanted to write something else when you wrote pansy?

 

REVITUP

[RightThere]

I know that there is no physical affair going on.

 

Guess who is the sucker now.

 

My wife keeps a journal that throughout our relationship I always promised I would never read as it is very private to her. However I recently thought "If I'm going to work on our marriage, I want to see some of the times she's been really let down"

 

Well surprise, surprise. She's been involved physically with two other guys. Two guys that I knew were her friends and guys who I have welcomed into my home because I knew I should try to be nice to my wife's friends.

 

So obviously I confronted her with this. She tried to downplay it at first, but eventually it all came out. I could tell it was like a huge weight came off her because it was all out in the open now. She even admitted that all the fighting recently has just been her emotional abuse of me. Now that it's all out, she would actually commit 100% to working on our marriage.

 

And that's not even the best part. I would actually consider forgiving her and working on our marriage. What kind of sad, pathetic f* would actually entertain this idea? I told her when we first started dating that to me, trust was the most important thing in our relationship. I give unconditional trust to very few people. I told her she took the most important thing I could offer her and abused it.

 

I feel better that everything is out in the open now, because things and events make much more sense to me now.

 

For anyone that has been through this, I don't know why, but I feel like I need to know some of the details (when, where). Part of me wants to know what exactly the physical affair was, but obviously the other part of me thinks "Is any answer going to make you feel better or worse?"

 

Last night I told her I would continue to work on our three month commitment, but today I don't know what to think. I feel like I should be going through some stages of emotion, but I'm just numb.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Guess who is the sucker now.

 

My wife keeps a journal that throughout our relationship I always promised I would never read as it is very private to her. However I recently thought "If I'm going to work on our marriage, I want to see some of the times she's been really let down"

 

Well surprise, surprise. She's been involved physically with two other guys. Two guys that I knew were her friends and guys who I have welcomed into my home because I knew I should try to be nice to my wife's friends.

 

So obviously I confronted her with this. She tried to downplay it at first, but eventually it all came out. I could tell it was like a huge weight came off her because it was all out in the open now. She even admitted that all the fighting recently has just been her emotional abuse of me. Now that it's all out, she would actually commit 100% to working on our marriage.

 

And that's not even the best part. I would actually consider forgiving her and working on our marriage. What kind of sad, pathetic f* would actually entertain this idea? I told her when we first started dating that to me, trust was the most important thing in our relationship. I give unconditional trust to very few people. I told her she took the most important thing I could offer her and abused it.

 

I feel better that everything is out in the open now, because things and events make much more sense to me now.

 

For anyone that has been through this, I don't know why, but I feel like I need to know some of the details (when, where). Part of me wants to know what exactly the physical affair was, but obviously the other part of me thinks "Is any answer going to make you feel better or worse?"

 

Last night I told her I would continue to work on our three month commitment, but today I don't know what to think. I feel like I should be going through some stages of emotion, but I'm just numb.

 

Sorry...they really do have a script...I know you wanted to be all in so I try to support that... The Advice is still good.

BUT

 

You need to take a little while to determine if this is a marriage that should be saved.

 

This changes the dynamics of marital recovery and I am not sure you should keep to the previous agreements which were based on marital issues.

 

First you need to deal with the infidelity. This means dealing with the lies, her lies, her bad choices and your feelings about all of that.

 

If you just continue on dealing with your love languages, and communication, you will never feel safe that you can trust her.

 

What is she doing to make you feel safe?

 

Has she admitted to your marriage counselor she lied?

 

Is she transparent, has she cut off those friends, and anyone who is not a friend of the marriage?

 

You both need STD testing.

 

She needs to give you all the information you need. It will be painful but it will prevent there from being secrets.

 

Give yourself some time to think about it. But she needs to do some serious heavy lifting if you have any hope.

 

Good luck.

[revitup]

I do have access, but I don't need to check. I know that there is no physical affair going on. And if I get to the point where I have to do this, then there is no trust in our relationship and I would move on.

 

And I could be wrong on the emotional affair, but right now they are much more companionship and common interests. My wife and I are definitely "opposites attract". And I always felt that a healthy relationship included interests outside of our own and being comfortable doing things on our own.

 

So if I'm playing the 180 game, and she's playing the 180 game, our relationship just dies right there?

 

Don't blame yourself for NOT KNOWING.The cheaters are always very slick at hiding the affairs.You were blind, and she is the one who blinded you.The good part is that you allowed her to blind you! It's good because you can simply OPEN your eyes now and see the truth.What she took from you was only what YOU allowed her to take.Therefore,you simply take it back!

 

By accepting the fact that she is not truthful and hasn't been for a long time,you will be better prepared to see through her deception.By accepting your part in the blinding procedure-you can DECIDE to take your own life back.

 

As for the "facts and particulars" of what happened in the affairs....Don't ask! This is not what you want to see in your mind on a daily basis.That's a movie you will not want to watch forever.Leave it alone,for your own sake.

 

As for the Three Month Commitment....screw that! You based your decision to have this "commitment" on LIES from her.Therefore all bets are off as to the "commitment" deal.A deal is a deal only when BOTH parties abide by the contract.

 

She will see you as weak and walk all over you if you don't set some boundaries and rules right now.She will (all of the others here know this-especially women) never "love" a man who she does not respect.

 

You have nothing to lose.

 

REVITUP

Edited August 21, 2013 by revitup
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[revitup]

Well surprise, surprise. She's been involved physically with two other guys. Two guys that I knew were her friends and guys who I have welcomed into my home because I knew I should try to be nice to my wife's friends.

 

 

Not really a surprise at all,what is the difference? It wouldn't feel any better if it was only one,would it?

 

Bottom line is how many did she leave out of the journal ?

 

Any woman, who is writing in her journal,inside of your familial home,about her trysts then not thinking twice about it as you walk around in a daze....is not my type!

 

How about you?

 

REVITUP

[worldgonewrong]

RightThere- you gotta put this relationship out of its misery and end it, for your sanity & well being.

[karnak]

She's cheated on you with 2 guys?

 

That means she's in the affair business just for the sex thrill. Not even a ounce of emotion or feelings there, right?

 

Do you really want to mantain a relationship with a woman like this?

[RightThere]

That means she's in the affair business just for the sex thrill. Not even a ounce of emotion or feelings there, right?

 

Yes. I outright asked her if she had any feelings for these guys and she said no. That was the point. Just feeling desired was the point.

 

Do you really want to maintain a relationship with a woman like this?

 

I don't think anyone wants to know my answer to this right now. I'm battling between what my instinct is saying and what my head is saying.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Whatever you want is fine, but don't decide until you have the "discovery" chemicals out of your system.

 

We will challenge you no matter what you decide.

[RightThere]

Whatever you want is fine, but don't decide until you have the "discovery" chemicals out of your system.

 

I don't know what effect they are supposed to have, but I figure I should at least be going through some stages. I spent about 5 minutes in denial last night, but now I'm just totally numb and withdrawn. No anger, no sadness, nothing. But I know something is bottling up inside me. It's what I've always done and has served me well. But this is a lot to contain.

 

We will challenge you no matter what you decide.

 

Appreciate it. It is quite pathetic actually but I have no one I can go talk to about this. Most of my good friends are pretty far away. Also I don't want to bring it up with other family/friends. One, because we're not that close and also, not out of embarrassment, but to protect our child.

 

I actually had an individual counselling session I set up a couple days after getting the separation talk. More to explore why I was so bad in our relationship and how to improve. I cancelled it a few days ago mostly because I thought I was getting a lot of good stuff already from marriage counselling, books and here. Now although I'm sure I should reach out to someone, I really don't want to.

[2sunny]

You are reaching out here and that is something rather than nothing.

 

It may be useful to sort out your thoughts on paper.

 

Write down who you thought your wife WAS - and the. Write down who she actually is (based on what fats you know now).

 

Write out IF you can live with who she actually is.

 

Write out IF you want to decide to stay with her knowing she will most likely cheat again.

 

Look at her actions - not her words. Is she doing things to stop her old behavior (cheating) or is she doing behavior that makes you think she is justifying her cheating?

 

Is she facing her actions? Is she trying to change that about herself? Is she showing the M as her top priority or an after TOUGHT?

 

These things mean something to you - and can be added into your equation of pros and cons for what decision you make moving forward.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I understand, I really do.

 

So talking to someone in real life might be good.

 

I don't know you from Adam, so I could be wrong, but this is what I get from your writing.

 

You probably are an average level of axxhole, like most of us. Meaning, no more no less, just normal. I think you think you are a bigger axxhole than you are.

 

You probably take on MORE responsibility for marital issues than is your fair share, even before you were aware of the affairs.

 

You stuff down your feelings, or you are afraid of what you would be like if you let yourself get angry, or you have trouble telling the difference between different feelings--(lots of men especially seem to do this, e.g. hurt=anger, sad=anger) but regardless...the feelings are normal, natural, and absence of them is a serious protection step. It's OK too.

 

Your feelings are your feelings are your feelings...whatever they are. Including if this just was the last straw. Or not. No judgements.

 

I am going to ask you to say one thing to your wife, today if possible.

 

Tell her she must meet with the MC and tell them about the cheating, with you there or not, but that you expect the next SEVERAL MC sessions to be about that as you decide where to go from here.

 

Tell her that on FRIDAY you want a written plan of what she intends to do to make the marriage safe for you and to figure out why.

 

No plan is a sign of no commitment.

 

Find out if your MC specializes in infidelity, because your marriage cannot be saved by buying her stuff...and that's why she was not all in. If your counselor isn't a specialist ask her to get you in to someone who is.

 

I know You would like this to be fixed and go away now..(don't we all) but you need to go through it...sucks but true.

 

Keep posting

[RightThere]

Tell her she must meet with the MC and tell them about the cheating, with you there or not, but that you expect the next SEVERAL MC sessions to be about that as you decide where to go from here.

 

We have one scheduled for tomorrow. She is committed to going because (in her words) now that everything is on the table she feels like we can work on the marriage.

 

You probably are an average level of axxhole, like most of us. Meaning, no more no less, just normal. I think you think you are a bigger axxhole than you are.

 

Everything else was pretty bang on so I appreciate the insight. This, however, is one I will say more about.

 

I have a mean streak in me. Nothing physical, but when I choose to allow myself to be mean, I am cutting to the bone. This was one thing my wife said as well to me last night was that she was very afraid, regardless of the outcome, how mean I would be. And I know that I have it in me because I've done it to people before.

 

Probably why everything gets bottled up. I function much better but I'm sure everyone will tell me it's not healthy.

 

More to this story that I didn't share.

 

We had a miscarriage just before Christmas. Affairs have been going on for about a year. I didn't think of it last night, but this morning I had that thought and I had to ask her. Was there a chance that it wasn't mine?

 

She assured me that 100%, it was mine. I believe her because we have one fail-safe mechanism when we ask the other a question, they have to answer honestly. However I know that question really hurt her today. It wasn't my intention, but I felt it was owed to me that I know.

 

Doormat is an apt description.

[vla1120]

I have a mean streak in me. Nothing physical, but when I choose to allow myself to be mean, I am cutting to the bone. This was one thing my wife said as well to me last night was that she was very afraid, regardless of the outcome, how mean I would be. And I know that I have it in me because I've done it to people before.

 

While it is good that you are willing to recognize and take responsibility for your faults, that does not make you more culpable than her for the failings in your marriage. Try not to put more blame on yourself. We all have our faults that we bring to the marriage. Unless you changed your spots the day you took your vows, I would imagine your wife was well aware of your mean streak.

 

It is good to work on your faults together, I just wanted to remind you that you have not done anything to betray her. You did not trample all over your vows. Like someone else said - she needs to do all the heavy lifting, here.

 

Keep working at it. You could become one of the success stories where your marriage survives and even becomes stronger, or you could become my story where you stay and stay and stay, sacrificing and losing more of yourself everyday and finally waking up one day to not recognizing yourself in the mirror. It is not pleasant. It took me 32 years to get this broken. It is going to take me a LONG time to recover, if I ever really do. Then there is the adverse affect that staying has had on my (mostly grown) children....and believe me. It takes a toll on them, no matter how you try to shield them.

 

Tread carefully.

[2sunny]

Practice using calm words in a conversation with her - I'd address her cheating... And practice telling her how that makes you feel.

 

See if she owns all of it - and see if she answers what you need to know - and see if you both can engage in a productive, civil conversation that addresses some of your problems - so that you can work through those issues to the other side = resolutions.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

.

I have a mean streak in me. Nothing physical, but when I choose to allow myself to be mean, I am cutting to the bone. This was one thing my wife said as well to me last night was that she was very afraid, regardless of the outcome, how mean I would be. And I know that I have it in me because I've done it to people before.

 

Probably why everything gets bottled up. I function much better but I'm sure everyone will tell me it's not healthy.

 

I stick by my previous statement. You are an average axxhole. I mean no offense, but from one average axxhole to another, I too am known for being able to kick some verbal axx. Not that it doesn't occasionally get me into hot water, and I must keep control of my verbal barbs and take them out only when they work for good. What I sensed was the bottling becomes like a bottle of champagne. When what you need is a more appropriate outlet. Like arguing with people on LS

 

Anyway it takes one to know one and our skilz are awesome in many situations, complaining, getting refunds, etc. just use your skills for good and not evil.. KWIM?

 

Don't be a doormat to overcompensate for being a skilled verbal warrior, just find the right battle.

[vla1120]

Don't be a doormat to overcompensate for being a skilled verbal warrior, just find the right battle.

 

Brilliant statement - you summarized in one sentence what it took me 3 paragraphs to express, but then, I am verbose.

[ShannonBanana]

Wow! I think I just heard the microphone drop after beenkilled's reply. That post needs to be printed and framed! It made my morning....day...week....next month.

[RightThere]

The hits just keep on coming. I don't know if this makes it better, worse, or the same.

 

Last night I got more confession on the chain of events. It's not just the past year. It's been much longer than that. We've been together for 8 years, married for 5. The first guy appears a few months before we got engaged. Ended when we got engaged (her doing). About 2 1/2 years ago, she started up again with the first guy. He ended it probably a year and a bit ago. Then the second guy showed up on the scene. That's probably been a year.

 

If I'm going to be honest with myself, after the first night of hearing about all this, I knew deep down in my heart I was going to forgive her and work on repairing our relationship. Now after knowing all this, I feel like it's a total game changer and I don't know why. Maybe because the deception has been for so long? Much longer than I thought she was unhappy?

 

Counselling session is today. I know she'll be coming clean with our counselor. She continues to say that now that it's all out in the open, she's committed to working on this. The part that kills me right now is that this weekend she was supposed to be going away on a girl's trip. But yeah, guy #2 was tagging along. I even asked her last night if something was likely to have happened this weekend, and she said yes. Even though we are in this "committed to 3 months of working on the relationship." She says she ended it with guy #2 yesterday as well.

 

I am just without emotion right now. I feel like I'm not even looking for that part of me that wants to work this out anymore.

[RightThere]

Practice using calm words in a conversation with her - I'd address her cheating... And practice telling her how that makes you feel.

 

See if she owns all of it - and see if she answers what you need to know - and see if you both can engage in a productive, civil conversation that addresses some of your problems - so that you can work through those issues to the other side = resolutions.

 

We did get into this last night. As for "owning it" she does. At first I got a little bit of "it's not all my fault" but I cut that off quickly. I told her there were plenty of faults in our marriage. Some mine, some hers, and some that we share. But crossing that line of cheating was all her. And she agreed.

 

I know both of these guys too. They are both total losers. Both fat, one is short, both old. But they made her feel wanted and desired. I don't know how to think about that part of it. Was she just using guys with even lower self esteem than her to fulfill that part of her life? She admitted to me that it got a bit passionate with the first guy, but the second guy there is nothing other than the physical. Is this a road even worth going down? I don't know what answers I would be looking for.