Here goes

[Giggle]

I have a 'friend' who gleefully tells me he told me so. It took me quite awhile to get to a place where I knew I was done, but nobody thought I would actually follow through. I talked too much and waffled. And of course it isn't actually final, but he's out of my house.

 

I hope you can get to a place where you really are done, just read through it all this morning and wanted to give you a big hug. My 1st ex left me for a younger version and I at one point asked if she could just be his mistress so I could keep him. *wince*

[RightThere]

It's gotten to the point that you've admitted she can treat you any way she wants - and you will find it acceptable.

 

I understand why you would say that. I think it's an exaggeration to say that she can treat me "any way she wants" but I can't disagree that she has continued to treat me poorly and I have not exploded on her for it.

 

Be ready - she will hurt you MORE = because you ALLOW IT.

 

I know. Her track record speaks for itself.

 

Watch = she'll be pregnant and get you to support her BF's child - just wait, it will happen.

 

I was just about to write how ridiculous that was, but I actually thought about it for a minute. I know I would draw that boundary today, but based on what I've said and done so far, I'm not 100% convinced in my ability to see that through. I can create a situation in my head where she might show up at my door in the pouring rain. She's got a baby and nowhere to go because her OM kicked her out and wants nothing to do with his own kid anymore. Am I strong enough to tell her to go and get a hotel?

[RightThere]

I have a 'friend' who gleefully tells me he told me so. It took me quite awhile to get to a place where I knew I was done, but nobody thought I would actually follow through. I talked too much and waffled. And of course it isn't actually final, but he's out of my house.

 

If you don't mind me asking, what makes it "not final" for you? Is it just paperwork at this point, or you are not finished with the relationship yet?

[2sunny]

I know. Her track record speaks for itself.

 

 

Yours does too.

 

That's just it - you think it's her - but actually it is you that ALLOWS it.

 

Blaming her at this point is ridiculous.

 

You are in charge of you.

[Yasuandio]

RT,

Check out the new post I just added to the Pinned Critical Reading section (also in my signature line). I just picked it up from another thread. I think, either now, or in time, you will appreciate the content of this site, and the particular article. Don't forget to vote! Yas

[RightThere]

RT,

Check out the new post I just added to the Pinned Critical Reading section (also in my signature line). I just picked it up from another thread. I think, either now, or in time, you will appreciate the content of this site, and the particular article. Don't forget to vote! Yas

 

I just did. During our first "fake" reconciliation, my STBXW did purchase both of her books and read them. At the time I was scared to pick them up because I think they are really hard for men to understand. It doesn't quite hit on justification for women, but definitely tries to push the boundaries of the reasons women cheat and how frequent.

 

I think for my own benefit, they would be a good eye opening read.

[RightThere]

That's just it - you think it's her - but actually it is you that ALLOWS it.

 

Blaming her at this point is ridiculous.

 

You are in charge of you.

 

I don't dispute that at all. I've allowed her to continue being in my life and I chose to let her keep hurting me. I rolled the dice on what I thought was going to happen and I lost.

[Steadfast]

I've disappointed all of you, and I'm sorry. I thought I knew who I was, and now I feel like a total stranger in my own body. I am far more broken than I realized. I know that I am because not only have I continued to allow myself to love and believe that she could change, I couldn't do what should have been done last night when it mattered.

 

Lots of pages in this thread. Lots of story. You've been through a ton RT.

 

Someone (2sunny I think) nailed it. This stopped being about her a long time ago. No question you're trapped between what you do and what you think you should do. Disappointed us? I do realize that a lot of people have invested a lot of time writing to you, but you've disappointed yourself.

 

People reach their breaking point at different times. Either you will reach that point and walk away from her for good, or she will successfully complete a total about face and become the person you desire her to be.

 

Which is more likely to happen?

 

You still control the outcome. At this point, you can safely say you've done all you could. It isn't about liking pain, being weak or denying love, its about time and the quality of life. You decide that friend, still. You still can.

[worldgonewrong]

RightThere- Love yourself first and foremost. Learn or re-learn. Know that you've not been wrong in dispensing love to her; it's just not honored and reciprocated, and won't be. But there is someone out there who WILL respect what you have to offer.

Draw the line, move on, and FREE yourself.

[michele4]

Wow it took me a long time to read through this...and I'm sorry you're dealing with so much pain

RightThere I agree with steadfast and worldgonewrong in that you've shown her everything you can and now it is time to focus on yourself. Any more attention to her will just continue to hurt you

[RightThere]

No hiding. Just the truth.

 

As for an update, yes, I am still working on reconciliation with my STBXW (not quite ready to drop that acronym yet).

 

It may be in part to do with feeling like we hit that "rock bottom" point but it definitely feels much more like real reconciliation (as opposed to the fake or half hearted reconciliation we previously tried). Total open and honest communication right now. If her or I are thinking something, we say it. There is no fear (especially for me) of what may come after being totally honest about how we are feeling or needing at that moment.

 

She is genuinely remorseful about everything that has gone on. No excuses about "I did this because of that" like what I was getting during our previous reconciliation attempts. No counselling scheduled as of yet, but that will be on the docket in the near future.

 

And I've been thinking a lot about what 2Sunny said. This stopped being about her a while ago. It's about me, what I choose to do, and what I allow to happen. And I am choosing to try and work on this marriage and my relationship. In doing so, I am allowing some potentially very bad things to happen to me as well. I've allowed someone who cheated on me to possibly do the same thing to me again. But it's just another gamble I've decided I'm willing to take, and the results may be good or bad, but they will be because I decided what I was doing.

 

I am also working on making sure my mind stays open to everything that is given to me here. I may be having some type of "battered wife" syndrome where there is no limit to the amount of abuse I will accept and I allow it to cloud my judgement to what is really happening to me. But I am nobody's victim. The decision is mine, and what happens next will be owned by me as well.

 

I'm not looking for support or positive reinforcement. Just everyone's continued honesty.

 

Thanks again.

[2sunny]

Well - I suppose since you fully accept that this is the way it's going to be - and you're not willing to take any action that invokes change - then expect that this is as good as it gets.

 

If nothing else - I admire your honesty.

[RightThere]

- and you're not willing to take any action that invokes change -

 

Just so I'm clear, the only action you are encouraging is ending it and doing the 180, right?

 

If so, I'm not sure that it's totally fair to say I'm not willing to take any action. We are currently doing the required things that would be part of reconciliation. No contact with the OM. She owns 100% of the affairs. She's removed herself from all activities where OM was involved.

 

I'm sure your next question will be "What will you do if it happens again?" and that is totally fair. I won't pretend to say that is my line in the sand where I finally end it because I don't really know what I would do. I only say that because my own track record has shown I don't follow through on that.

 

All I can say is that this feels like the start of real reconciliation efforts. 100% commitment by both sides. I want to believe that if she decides she is no longer committed, then I would know that the relationship is ending at that point.

[2sunny]

Just so I'm clear, the only action you are encouraging is ending it and doing the 180, right?

 

If so, I'm not sure that it's totally fair to say I'm not willing to take any action. We are currently doing the required things that would be part of reconciliation. No contact with the OM. She owns 100% of the affairs. She's removed herself from all activities where OM was involved.

 

I'm sure your next question will be "What will you do if it happens again?" and that is totally fair. I won't pretend to say that is my line in the sand where I finally end it because I don't really know what I would do. I only say that because my own track record has shown I don't follow through on that.

 

All I can say is that this feels like the start of real reconciliation efforts. 100% commitment by both sides. I want to believe that if she decides she is no longer committed, then I would know that the relationship is ending at that point.

 

 

I suppose my response to no action was referring to you not wanting to take "contrary action" meaning doing things completely opposite of what you've been doing so far. That, of course, is for you to decide.

 

 

But you being hopeful now - when your wife just f-ed the other dude in the past week - doesn't make me see as "hopeful yet".

 

I guess since you're willing to wait it out - time will show you whether or not she does begin - and sustains - a ton more effort for the reconciliation.

 

I would hope that you decide what your healthy boundary looks like for you - and stick to it moving forward.

[Steadfast]

All I can say is that this feels like the start of real reconciliation efforts. 100% commitment by both sides.

 

Friend, judging your relationship by what you've written, her becoming 100% honest, faithful and committed would truly be a first. That being the case, I'd hope for a completely new dynamic and pray you don't have to suffer through another "reconciliation". Or, being reconciled to a cheater.

 

I want to believe that if she decides she is no longer committed, then I would know that the relationship is ending at that point.

 

I see you being in a very, very, dark place right now, and suffering from an extreme case of denial. Your addiction to see her to become what you want is more powerful than your ability to make healthy choices. You want to believe that you will leave if she betrays you...again? How many times must you be struck with the hammer before you start ducking the blows?

 

You are paralyzed with fear and justifying it with love. That's not love, it's need. The choice is yours to make but you asked for honesty. Here it is.

[trippi1432]

If I may, I've said this before.....sometimes it's best to stick with the "devil" you know than the "devil" you don't know. The "devil" you know is a relationship that can change when both apply an effort towards the dynamic. The "devil" you don't know becomes the bigger risk as nothing has been developed in experience, relationship...bond and trust.

 

The "devil" you know, has 3 of those 4 things......so the healthy boundary is developing the trust. That starts first and this is where RightThere is.

 

My only warning RightThere is a) Do not put your blinders on and b) Do not over react based on your past experience. Both are a slippery slope. There was a thread here before you came to LS....Done Wrong and What_Next?? Perhaps they resolved things....don't know now, but there is a difference in a healthy boundary and both of you just seeing each other for who you are. Do not lose your self respect...and even though she cheated, if you want this to work....infidelity is not an ace in the hole to "make" someone love you. On the other hand, her discrepancies aren't an excuse to make you jump through hoops. Healthy boundaries...mountains can be moved anytime, no one person can move an entire mountain alone.....

[Steadfast]

Yes, my dear friend Trippi. These things are never easy. There is no manual for love and romance...even though many have tried to write it.

 

One thing I can say for certain; if you don't love yourself, it will be impossible to accept love from someone else. The same is true for respect.

[worldgonewrong]

RightThere- Let me get this straight: on February 28, another man put his d*ck inside your wife. Now on March 7, a week later, you're talking about reconciliation again.

All of this self-pep talk about "it's about me now" is false. It WILL be about you IF you get your head together and get away from her. She's cheated on you multiple times.

Do you need to actually walk in on her & a lover to drive the point home that she's toxic for you and doesn't respect you?

This is suicide by degrees.

She will 'reconcile' for as long as it takes for her to notice another guy.

I'm sorry, but you need to hit a real 'rock bottom' which is facing the ugly truths. You're swimming in a hot-tub of muck & garbage & sickness, and you're deluding yourself by saying, "Oh hey, I'll just add some Mister Bubble."

Get OUT of the hot-tube, dude.

[worldgonewrong]

P.S. I honestly think, RightThere, that you're shell-shocked. Like a veteran that's suffering from PTSD. What's happened to you, over & over, is so repellant, so egregious, and nauseating, that you're having trouble coming to grips with it.

You keep getting blitzed by her, and you're in your foxhole (with metaphorical bombs going off) saying, "We can reconcile! We can reconcile!"

The minute you wake up and say, "Sweet Lord, this woman has put me through absolute HELL. She must really either hate my guts or not care one whit about me. Either way, it's NOT love, and I can't make her love me", then that's the minute you'll start to get YOUR life back -- and a new one, at that.

[worldgonewrong]

(I do enjoy my metaphors - e.g., hot-tubs, fox-holes. Sorry. )

[RightThere]

But you being hopeful now - when your wife just f-ed the other dude in the past week - doesn't make me see as "hopeful yet".

 

I guess since you're willing to wait it out - time will show you whether or not she does begin - and sustains - a ton more effort for the reconciliation.

 

I would hope that you decide what your healthy boundary looks like for you - and stick to it moving forward.

 

I think "time will show" is the crux of where I'm at right now. It's only been a week. I've had some positive progress, but it's ONLY BEEN A WEEK.

 

And just so everyone is clear, when I call it "real reconciliation" I only mean that this is the first time she's been 100% in and doing the required things for reconciliation to work. I don't know if it's going to actually work or be sustained, but it's just not he "fake reconciliation" work we did previously.

 

One other piece of truth I'll add is that her and her OM spoke last on Friday (a week ago). At that time, she told him she didn't want to be with him anymore and that she wanted to work on getting back together with me. This was the version of the story I was told. Since then, she has had no contact with him (that I know of). But so it's on the table, he has not tried to contact her either.

[RightThere]

I see you being in a very, very, dark place right now, and suffering from an extreme case of denial. Your addiction to see her to become what you want is more powerful than your ability to make healthy choices. You want to believe that you will leave if she betrays you...again? How many times must you be struck with the hammer before you start ducking the blows?

 

You are paralyzed with fear and justifying it with love. That's not love, it's need. The choice is yours to make but you asked for honesty. Here it is.

 

I don't feel like I'm in denial (which is exactly what someone in denial would say). I don't think I've discounted anything that she's done or tried to play it off as "little mistakes". I only said I want to believe that I'll leave if she cheats again because I don't want to make that false promise. That is just being honest. I said before that is what I would do, and I didn't when the situation was right infront of me. For me to now say "This time for SURE I'll leave her if I cheat" is hollow because I didn't follow through last time.

 

Obviously I want to say that this time if we're not reconciling, we're separating. If she breaks any of the reconciliation rules, I'm out. I just had to add the caveat not as a backdoor excuse, but so I don't lie to anyone here or myself about when I'm unsure of my own abilities.

[worldgonewrong]

I think "time will show" is the crux of where I'm at right now. It's only been a week. I've had some positive progress, but it's ONLY BEEN A WEEK.

 

And just so everyone is clear, when I call it "real reconciliation" I only mean that this is the first time she's been 100% in and doing the required things for reconciliation to work. I don't know if it's going to actually work or be sustained, but it's just not he "fake reconciliation" work we did previously.

 

One other piece of truth I'll add is that her and her OM spoke last on Friday (a week ago). At that time, she told him she didn't want to be with him anymore and that she wanted to work on getting back together with me. This was the version of the story I was told. Since then, she has had no contact with him (that I know of). But so it's on the table, he has not tried to contact her either.

 

There's so much that bothers me about this post, on your behalf.

Random notes:

1. "this is the first time she's been 100% and doing the required things for reconciliation to work" -- hot off 1 week after screwing another guy? Really?

2. "This was the version of the story I was told." -- and what's the value of her word now, in the immediate aftermath of all this? If you had to take a hard look at what you've been told, coupled with the grim reality of what she's done, you're willing to accept it so easily as gospel?

3. You're basing your "positive progress" on her word in the aftermath of her horsing around just one week ago.

 

You're a stronger man than me, or maybe more foolish. I'd be vomiting blood if I were in your shoes.

[worldgonewrong]

I said before that is what I would do, and I didn't when the situation was right in front of me.

 

Obviously I want to say that this time if we're not reconciling, we're separating.

 

She has no respect for rules, reconciliation or marital.

What exactly are you putting your faith in? Her word?

 

You keep drawing lines in the sand; she keeps stepping over them.

Nothing is going to change until you change; do not rely on her to change. You're putting your faith in something that has already been proven as failure. And you know what they say about the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over & over again, and expecting different results.

[RightThere]

My only warning RightThere is a) Do not put your blinders on

 

No blinders. I definiltly feel like the entire experience has awakened me to everything in my life and what is going on around me. I'm not afraid to jump on situations now that seem unusual to me.

 

b) Do not over react based on your past experience.

 

I wanted to ask you. When you say "Don't over react" do you mean don't throw infidelity back in her face if she leaves some dished lying around?

 

Do not lose your self respect...and even though she cheated, if you want this to work....infidelity is not an ace in the hole to "make" someone love you. On the other hand, her discrepancies aren't an excuse to make you jump through hoops. Healthy boundaries...mountains can be moved anytime, no one person can move an entire mountain alone.....

 

I think I understand what you mean here. She shouldn't feel guilted into loving me because of her infidelity. I shouldn't feel guilted into jumping through hoops to make her happy (her unhappiness led to her infidelity).

 

Or did I miss it altogether.