Here goes

[RightThere]

I hate playing this game.

 

My STBXW just emailed me asking if I could take our daughter tomorrow night. I already committed to some work stuff, but I could bail on it if I really needed to.

 

But I told her no. Which is so hard because I know that means she's just going to dump her off somewhere so she can do her social thing. I feel awful because our daughter just needs to have one of us around. But she can't even fulfill one friggin week of her obligation to look after her own daughter.

[Yasuandio]

Well, you know, she does have to make time on her social calandar for OM. I imagine it's filling up fast if she has to squeeze you in once in while, David. Try to be accommodating. Y

[dumped2013]

Dude,

You know what is going on so I don't even need to say anything. Just think about what she is saying. She can't decide between you or the om. I would not even have to think about what I would do. It is just the biggest cut down that a woman that is thinking about supposedly trying to r can tell her husband.

[beach]

She's not trying in any way to reconcile - she is willing to use you for whatever she needs, whenever she needs a favor. She needs you to watch the child because her plans with men are getting in the way of parenting.

 

She said she'd pay for half the fee to get the D finalized - best to get it done ASAP. She doesn't intend to stay married. The end result is the same if you do it now or wait around for ten more years.

 

You want to waste more time and energy wasted on this gal that isn't trying to live a decent life? Why?

 

She's acting like a tramp- she's not who you thought she was.

 

When you move forward and accept that she's done and the M is over - you can begin to look forward to a new life without the weight of her dragging you down.

[RightThere]

Well, you know, she does have to make time on her social calandar for OM. I imagine it's filling up fast if she has to squeeze you in once in while, David. Try to be accommodating. Y

 

Just so it's clear, it wasn't so she could go out with her OM (as per what she TOLD me). It was with girlfriends. Which to be totally fair, was also what she would tell me when she was going out with her other men.

 

Sooooo interesting that you threw the name "David" in there. It's not my name, but surreal to my storyline.

 

After I told her "no" I was shocked to get a response later on that said "I probably shouldn't go out anyways"

 

Definitely back in a rut, but I feel like I know I have to tools to work myself out of it. But still dealing with these resurfaced emotions about wanting to make an attempt to reconcile. I know I'm in a much better place than I have been in that I know I can move on if I choose to. I'm OK to be alone. So that makes be believe that I can cut it off if we don't make proper progress on it.

 

Of course the other side to that coin is everyone is telling me that is a horrible idea. Because they are looking at the situation from the outside, without emotion. And I need to take that in as well.

[Tripz]

RT, I don't mean to diminish anything you are going through, but at least you are getting some answers. My STBXW won't even discuss ANYTHING that pertains to us and what happened to our relationship, unless it involves our son. Perhaps she may be thinking that, by talking to me, I'll regress back into that "begging, pleading" stage again (yes, I'm certain it was pathetic at the time). Or, she's actually killed me so deeply in her heart that she could care less what I feel or know. I don't know if she'll ever get to a point where we can sit down, as adults and talk about what actually were the causes of the demise of our marriage. Since, I'm not really sure exactly, it's made it a lot more difficult to work on me. Would be nice to know what aspects were the deal breakers. I can only guess, but even then, it would be nice to talk about it. Talk about a mind eff. I'm finding that the whole NC thing is pretty much a non working item when you have a child in the mix.

 

I am glad she's at least not leading me on with little breadcrumbs of hope. That would suck. I KNOW she's done with me, forever, but leaving some of these questions unanswered isn't very mature on her part. I know she would actually benefit from both of us truly finalizing this. So much in the end was left open ended and "closure", true closure won't happen. Maybe that's something she can live with, but not me.

 

She's also dragging her feet signing the Dissolution paperwork, which is really weird. Makes zero sense, since this is what SHE wanted. You'd think, that when you are in an affair, you'd want to be done with your marriage as soon as possible, simply to legitimize the new relationship. Doesn't really matter to me, one way or another, since she's doing what she wants already. But, as it is, all I've gotten for the effort is a large bill from the lawyers office and some paperwork drawn up. Nothing technically legal has actually happened until she signs. At least that's my understanding. I truly do not understand people....

 

RT, in your case, if she keeps pulling you back in, you will just revolve and rotate on this never ending scale of hurt and disappointment. I don't know what she thinks she's doing, but it is NOT good. Not good for you or her. I really don't know what you should do, but I can totally understand how your heart keeps getting torn in two. Bad situation....sorry.

[TheBladeRunner]

RT, I don't mean to diminish anything you are going through, but at least you are getting some answers. My STBXW won't even discuss ANYTHING that pertains to us and what happened to our relationship, unless it involves our son. Perhaps she may be thinking that, by talking to me, I'll regress back into that "begging, pleading" stage again (yes, I'm certain it was pathetic at the time). Or, she's actually killed me so deeply in her heart that she could care less what I feel or know. I don't know if she'll ever get to a point where we can sit down, as adults and talk about what actually were the causes of the demise of our marriage. Since, I'm not really sure exactly, it's made it a lot more difficult to work on me. Would be nice to know what aspects were the deal breakers. I can only guess, but even then, it would be nice to talk about it. Talk about a mind eff. I'm finding that the whole NC thing is pretty much a non working item when you have a child in the mix.

 

I am glad she's at least not leading me on with little breadcrumbs of hope. That would suck. I KNOW she's done with me, forever, but leaving some of these questions unanswered isn't very mature on her part. I know she would actually benefit from both of us truly finalizing this. So much in the end was left open ended and "closure", true closure won't happen. Maybe that's something she can live with, but not me.

 

She's also dragging her feet signing the Dissolution paperwork, which is really weird. Makes zero sense, since this is what SHE wanted. You'd think, that when you are in an affair, you'd want to be done with your marriage as soon as possible, simply to legitimize the new relationship. Doesn't really matter to me, one way or another, since she's doing what she wants already. But, as it is, all I've gotten for the effort is a large bill from the lawyers office and some paperwork drawn up. Nothing technically legal has actually happened until she signs. At least that's my understanding. I truly do not understand people....

 

RT, in your case, if she keeps pulling you back in, you will just revolve and rotate on this never ending scale of hurt and disappointment. I don't know what she thinks she's doing, but it is NOT good. Not good for you or her. I really don't know what you should do, but I can totally understand how your heart keeps getting torn in two. Bad situation....sorry.

 

See the bold.....that's hardest part....not knowing the REAL reason why. I thought the same thing for awhile and finally came to realize I may never know. I know I will never get the truth either and frankly I don't care anymore. I have a better chance of winning the lottery or growing another 6 inches taller.

 

RT, keep hangin' in there my friend, what you are doing and what you are going through is all part of the process. I did the same stupid garbage and I have to say that although I wish I didn't do it, I knew I had to for my own piece of mind.

Edited February 13, 2014 by TheBladeRunner

[RightThere]

RT, I don't mean to diminish anything you are going through, but at least you are getting some answers. My STBXW won't even discuss ANYTHING that pertains to us and what happened to our relationship, unless it involves our son. Perhaps she may be thinking that, by talking to me, I'll regress back into that "begging, pleading" stage again (yes, I'm certain it was pathetic at the time). Or, she's actually killed me so deeply in her heart that she could care less what I feel or know. I don't know if she'll ever get to a point where we can sit down, as adults and talk about what actually were the causes of the demise of our marriage. Since, I'm not really sure exactly, it's made it a lot more difficult to work on me. Would be nice to know what aspects were the deal breakers. I can only guess, but even then, it would be nice to talk about it. Talk about a mind eff. I'm finding that the whole NC thing is pretty much a non working item when you have a child in the mix.

 

I am glad she's at least not leading me on with little breadcrumbs of hope. That would suck. I KNOW she's done with me, forever, but leaving some of these questions unanswered isn't very mature on her part. I know she would actually benefit from both of us truly finalizing this. So much in the end was left open ended and "closure", true closure won't happen. Maybe that's something she can live with, but not me.

 

She's also dragging her feet signing the Dissolution paperwork, which is really weird. Makes zero sense, since this is what SHE wanted. You'd think, that when you are in an affair, you'd want to be done with your marriage as soon as possible, simply to legitimize the new relationship. Doesn't really matter to me, one way or another, since she's doing what she wants already. But, as it is, all I've gotten for the effort is a large bill from the lawyers office and some paperwork drawn up. Nothing technically legal has actually happened until she signs. At least that's my understanding. I truly do not understand people....

 

RT, in your case, if she keeps pulling you back in, you will just revolve and rotate on this never ending scale of hurt and disappointment. I don't know what she thinks she's doing, but it is NOT good. Not good for you or her. I really don't know what you should do, but I can totally understand how your heart keeps getting torn in two. Bad situation....sorry.

 

I hear you. I really sucks not being able to get proper closure or understand where things when off the rails for them. Throughout this whole ordeal, I've been able to ask questions and get good answers (once all the truth started coming out).

 

I have to say, my STBXW and I communicate now better than we ever have in our relationship. We are talking on our own about times in the past where one of us was let down, and the other then gives their interpretation of the same events. It's given each of us greater perspective of how and when we were going wrong.

 

But you are right, these are bread crumbs right now, and I'm picking them up. But at the same time, I'm moving on with things. I guess I just figure one will finish before the other one does. I'm not trying to let either dominate my life, I'm just living each day.

[beach]

When you admit that she's simply selfish and self serving - you'll get your closure.

 

When you look at her actions - not her words - you'll get your closure.

 

When you decide what your plan is - and take action to carry that out - you'll get closure.

 

 

When you get the D finalized and are free from her toxic actions - you'll get a new life and can move forward.

[Tripz]

When you admit that she's simply selfish and self serving - you'll get your closure.

 

When you look at her actions - not her words - you'll get your closure.

 

When you decide what your plan is - and take action to carry that out - you'll get closure.

 

 

When you get the D finalized and are free from her toxic actions - you'll get a new life and can move forward.

I can totally agree, Beach, except for at least the next 4 years, I won't be able to completely NOT see her or even not know what she is doing. We have a 14 year old and until he's in college, it will be a weekly, if not even more frequent, meeting with her. If I could move away or if we didn't have a kid, it would be actually a lot easier. Once done...It would be done. As it is, I've requested a meeting with her on Sunday night to discuss some details neither of us counted on. One of those being the house, foreclosure or not, her signing off on the deed, but still assuming the debt, etc. I'm also going to find out why she has yet to sign her paperwork. What the hell is the hold up? With new information from my mortgage lender about how a loan modification works, I think she'll wish she hadn't procrastinated. She might also regret even moving out, since my income alone was able to sustain us before. Now that I'm paying spousal support to her, we are both going to crash and burn, big time. Would actually help if I got paid from my job, but alas, the economy hasn't helped that either. I guess there's never a good time to divorce, but now couldn't be worse!

 

A friend of mine told me recently that if he ever has to divorce his second wife, he's giving her both houses, both businesses, 2 of 3 cars, all the bank accounts and savings, everything. The only thing he wants are his dog, his truck and the clothes on his back. I asked him why? He said, "Because after the first divorce, I learned it's a LOT easier starting from zero, than slowly losing it all, only to be at zero 9 months and a lot more stressed out, later".

 

I'm beginning to see the wisdom in that. I will crash, I can see it now and really nothing can stop it. Had I given her everything including my business, "I" would be the one truly able to start fresh.

[beach]

I hear you. I really sucks not being able to get proper closure or understand where things when off the rails for them. Throughout this whole ordeal, I've been able to ask questions and get good answers (once all the truth started coming out).

 

I have to say, my STBXW and I communicate now better than we ever have in our relationship. We are talking on our own about times in the past where one of us was let down, and the other then gives their interpretation of the same events. It's given each of us greater perspective of how and when we were going wrong.

 

But you are right, these are bread crumbs right now, and I'm picking them up. But at the same time, I'm moving on with things. I guess I just figure one will finish before the other one does. I'm not trying to let either dominate my life, I'm just living each day.

 

YOU feel this way because you keep putting yourself in the position of her OM!

 

She doesn't intend to get back together. Stop acting like her friend.

 

Knowing what you may have done wrong can help you to NOT do it that way in your next relationship.

 

You either get busy LIVING - or you get busy dying. I suggest moving FORWARD and never looking backwards!

 

Since she isn't making YOU and the M her TOP priority - she's not going to make the M work! She is still the same cheater she was when this thread started! Remember? You stated IF my W were cheating I'd end the M! Then you found out she WAS cheating and you started bending YOUR boundary.

 

It's been over - there's nothing to work on but improving the man you are - and the man you CAN become!

 

She's wiping her dirty feet on you and you need to be capable of saying "NO more" and "I DESERVE better!"

 

When you let the fascade end - then you can allow room for a DECENT woman to enter your life! Until then - you're just ALLOWING her to take up way too much space in your head and your life.

 

Trash is trash - it's best to take it out and make room for lovely things that make you happy.

 

The woman you THOUGHT she was NEVER existed - or is now gone forever! What's so hard to understand about that?

 

THAT IS closure! Your wife isn't the wife you thought you had. Done.

[beach]

You've done all the work - and believed her when she bold faced lied! Taking all the blame on yourself and trying to improve self and the marriage!

 

And she lied constantly when she stated she wanted to work on the M!

 

She's a total liar!

 

Stop thinking she's suddenly going to turn into a decent person - she lies, she cheats and she uses you when it's convenient FOR HER!

 

Start looking out for YOURSELF!

 

She's doing you a favor! You don't have to live the rest of your life with a gal that lies and cheats!

 

Consider yourself lucky!

 

Read through your posts from page one - it SHOULD help you!!!

 

 

My back story: We've been together for 8 years, married for 5. One child (4 years old).

 

I know my wife hasn't been happy for a while, but this week she sent me an email (I know) at work that she wanted to separate for a while. We would trade on and off weeks at our house. She said she wants some space.

 

She said she loves me, but is not "in love" with me anymore. She doesn't feel desired or wanted anymore. She is a very social person so she is always out with her friends. I don't want to stop her, so I've always given her that freedom. I know she is not having a physical affair, but she does bounce from person to person for "emotional affairs". She also has a lot of "family and work baggage" but I seem to get the brunt of her frustration.

 

I'm still in shock right now and I told her I will work very hard to repair our marriage. But I have a question about this "180" approach.

 

If she's feeling ignored and undesired, wouldn't this approach probably push her further away? We've scheduled to go and see a counselor, but this wasn't something I thought I should bring up there.

 

If we schedule some family activity time, should I just act normal during it, and then just give her the "180" the rest of the time?

 

I have my faults in this relationship (I've missed some very important dates over the past year) but I feel like she is pushing all of the responsibility onto me to fix the relationship.

 

I do have access, but I don't need to check. I know that there is no physical affair going on. And if I get to the point where I have to do this, then there is no trust in our relationship and I would move on.

 

And I could be wrong on the emotional affair, but right now they are much more companionship and common interests. My wife and I are definitely "opposites attract". And I always felt that a healthy relationship included interests outside of our own and being comfortable doing things on our own.

 

So if I'm playing the 180 game, and she's playing the 180 game, our relationship just dies right there?

 

So right now then, we're in the same house, separate rooms. That will probably change in the next week or so, but in the meantime, do I just avoid her totally in the house? If she initiates talking, do I just keep it totally brief?

 

She says she is 50/50 on wanting to work it out. So I'm sure some of the discussion will be about changes we want to make for the better in our relationship. Do I entertain that? Or just simply push it back to her to initiate any change?

 

We're doing a little family outing this weekend, so do I just give her the cold shoulder the whole time and only focus on our child? Or just be pleasant but keep conversation to a minimum?

 

Also, has anyone every told their significant other they are getting the "180" until they make some changes? Pointless to do so?

 

We're going to do separate weeks away from the house during our "break". Her away one week, me the next (so our child is not moving around.)

 

She'll be a her friend's house, me probably at my parents.

 

She did have a plan when she dropped this on me. She had already been talking to one of her friends and arranged to stay at her place. I've told her before I feel like probably the 5th most important person in her life. She said it's not true, but she is a "runner". Lots of abandonment issues so I really feel this 180 thing is going to make her run.

 

I'm hoping this becomes more of a personal log for me. I'll keep throwing out my thoughts and actions and feel free to keep up with the feedback.

 

I will admit, the 180 is hard. I got out, did things, didn't seem at all interested in what was going on with her. While we were in the house together, she would try to keep up general conversation, but I kept my own answers short.

 

Sunday was a pre-planned family activity. As we were loading up the car, I broke the cardinal rule of the 180. I told her what I was really feeling. We have a meeting scheduled with a counselor, but I ask her "Are you interested in working things out? Not just so that we have a family unit and raise our child together, but also interested in working things out with just the two of us?"

 

She said she was. Not 100% committed at this point, but wanted to try that.

 

We also had a couple of open conversations (which I initiated) about where we were at. She admitted to "checking out" of our relationship for a while now. Someone once described their life as a bunch of buckets. They have their personal bucket, their career bucket, wife bucket, kids bucket, health bucket, etc. I don't know why it triggered that thought in my head, but I recognize my wife bucket has been on the empty side for a while.

 

I appreciate the responses on the flip side of the 180 approach. Although I don't view my situation as totally unique, and that the 180 approach does have merit, I believe the outcome for my wife and I with a total 180 approach (two very stubborn people who possibly do want to try and work things out) may have an opposite intended outcome.

 

I don't disagree with anything that you say.

 

 

 

Especially this. Because if this is where our relationship is, then I know I cannot stay in it.

 

However I do not feel as though we are at that point. Maybe she is, but until she says that she doesn't want to try and work it out anymore, then I will continue to work on my 50% of the marriage.

 

We are both very independent people. And I feel a strict 180 approach will have the effect of making us feel like the other is totally uninterested in working anything out.

 

If I'm wrong on all this, then everyone can come back here later and have an "I was right party" at my expense.

 

Went to our first couples counselling session. I won't be sharing details of what goes on in them out of respect for the process.

 

However we both committed to taking separation off the table for 3 months. I can tell you I was out of my mind before going into the session because I had a worst case scenario built up in my head that she was going simply to have the counselor counsel us through separating.

 

I was open about my failures within the marriage (she's been feeling undervalued). But she is very angry at the situation. And this had permeated into the rest of her life (or maybe other frustrations in her life have permeated into our marriage). I think the hardest part about it was when you are supposed to say three things that you like/love about your spouse. She struggled to come up with three on the spot (I anticipated the question was going to come so I was prepared). And the three that she did say were either not ones I really thought were important to our relationship, or just lousy ones.

 

It's difficult to be in this situation because I still don't know how it will play out. However I am committed to some parts of the 180 approach (getting out on my own, focusing on things to improve about myself) because I think that is an important part of the process.

 

So we're at the two week mark since my wife asked for a separation. We're both still committed to working on things for three months, no separation.

 

We've got another session with our counselor this week but we are still sleeping in separate rooms. Most physical contact is minimal. We've also committed to going out together this weekend. Probably dinner and a movie.

 

I think we've both been working on our parts of the marriage over the past week, but in talking with her last night, she still carried a lot of anger/resentment/disappointment from things that have happened in the past. No affairs, but fights, letting the other person down, not meeting expectations, etc.

 

I'm looking at it now thinking in the back of my head "If she's not able to move past these things, then we probably won't be able to reconcile." I feel like there are plenty of things that she has done wrong, but I just chose to forgive and forget.

 

For people that have been in similar boats as my wife, is there anything your significant other can do or say to help move past these things?

 

Had our counseling session yesterday. I really find it to run fairly aimlessly, but it was only our second one. I even said it to the counselor and he agreed that he doesn't want to push anything until he does understand our issues better.

 

To be honest, I find my wife an I communicate better the rest of the time about where we are at, but I know she still had all of her "walls" up. I wont' let myself worry about what she is doing in this however. Just continue to focus on what I need to do in our relationship.

 

Someone had posted a video elsewhere on the "Walkaway Wife Syndrome". Interesting just to give me better understanding of where she is at.

 

But there is so much conflicting advice out there. Some women were very unhappy their husbands didn't try to fight for their relationship after the "I Love You But I'm Not In Love With You" speech. Other women respond very well to the 180 approach.

 

I hope I'm not watering down the effects of any of these approaches, but I definitely have a blended approach. I am focused on improving all aspects of myself, including my relationship with my wife, but I know in my heart there will be lines that if they are crossed (affair, being a doormat) that I will have to move on with my life.

 

I just hate how "textbook" arriving at my current situation is. It is very possible that the damage has already been done and my wife is just going through the motions, but I know that however it ends, it won't be from lack of effort on my part (even though arriving at this point is due to lack of effort).

 

I have asked that, and she has said she is willing to work on it. She has not jumped in with both feet, however I will take what commitment she has offered (and there has been some).

 

And it is totally possible that she will go through this entire process only half-heartedly. If that's what happens, then it still won't change what I'm going to do over the next while. I will still work on my part. Either way I can't worry about changing her. She'll either change or she won't.

 

Appreciate all of this. Some I am doing (dates) and some we're working on (counselor brought up the question/answer type discussions).

 

I am without a doubt the over-reacting spouse now (way too much affection, attention, etc) and I've discussed with her that I know it probably comes across as disingenuous. However it's my responsibility that it isn't a temporary fix that trails off. It needs to become a real part of me because it is a love language of hers that I did not speak to her with.

 

And as a side note, if you're familiar with the "5 Love Languages" books, this was something she talked about with me almost since we met (8 years ago). I only just bought the book after she said she wanted to separate.

 

We both committed to 3 months, no separation. So I won't be heading to the lawyers office until we get to that mark.

 

As for her level of commitment to the process, that is something I cannot control. As I've said before, if she's just "going though the motions" then that doesn't change what I'm doing today.

 

I'm committed to fixing our marriage so I'll put in my full effort into my portion of the marriage. If nothing is done with her portion, then that is where the chips will fall.

 

She is big on the "5 Love Languages" book. Two that were very important to her and that I severely lacked in were Words of Affirmation and Gifts.

 

For the words of affirmation, I've committed to finding 3 things a day to verbalize to her about. She looks great in the outfit, I appreciate her getting our little one dressed in the morning, offering supportive words to a problem she's having, etc. I'm making sure not to force it, so sometimes there is only one a day. And for her right now it feels like I'm just forcing it out. But a long as it become part of what I do everyday, it hopefully will become normal for me.

 

For gifts, I previously had missed her birthday, Christmas, and Valentine's day (and these were just the more recent disappointments in this area). So I've tried to find a little something to get for her every couple of days. We had a date night on Friday, so I did get her a nice outfit to wear out with me. This one is actually much tougher for me, because I can't just get flowers all the time. It's forcing me to think of small, creative ways to fulfill that "gift" part of her love language.

 

Aside from that, I'm also forcing myself to be more positive with her and things she wants to do. I'm a very "glass is half empty" person so if she suggested something in the past, I would always think of the worst case scenario and verbalize that. I would think of it as planning, but she would take it as criticism and "raining on her parade". So now I'm trying to be more positive and supportive on things instead of a Debbie Downer.

 

Lots of other stuff I need to work on, but these are my focus goals right now.

 

I'd love some advice. Much appreciated.

 

My goal in this is to improve. The whole reason I came across LS was to learn, take bits and pieces from everywhere, and make my contribution better.

 

I still have a looooooong way to go. Even though I am "all in" I know my wife has her reservations that this is a temporary ruse. It's only been three weeks but I almost felt myself falling into bad habits last night. Had to give myself a bit of a wake-up call and say "What the f$^% is wrong with you? Pick your game back up!"

 

Guess who is the sucker now.

 

My wife keeps a journal that throughout our relationship I always promised I would never read as it is very private to her. However I recently thought "If I'm going to work on our marriage, I want to see some of the times she's been really let down"

 

Well surprise, surprise. She's been involved physically with two other guys. Two guys that I knew were her friends and guys who I have welcomed into my home because I knew I should try to be nice to my wife's friends.

 

So obviously I confronted her with this. She tried to downplay it at first, but eventually it all came out. I could tell it was like a huge weight came off her because it was all out in the open now. She even admitted that all the fighting recently has just been her emotional abuse of me. Now that it's all out, she would actually commit 100% to working on our marriage.

 

And that's not even the best part. I would actually consider forgiving her and working on our marriage. What kind of sad, pathetic f* would actually entertain this idea? I told her when we first started dating that to me, trust was the most important thing in our relationship. I give unconditional trust to very few people. I told her she took the most important thing I could offer her and abused it.

 

I feel better that everything is out in the open now, because things and events make much more sense to me now.

 

For anyone that has been through this, I don't know why, but I feel like I need to know some of the details (when, where). Part of me wants to know what exactly the physical affair was, but obviously the other part of me thinks "Is any answer going to make you feel better or worse?"

 

Last night I told her I would continue to work on our three month commitment, but today I don't know what to think. I feel like I should be going through some stages of emotion, but I'm just numb.

 

She's cheated on you with 2 guys?

 

That means she's in the affair business just for the sex thrill. Not even a ounce of emotion or feelings there, right?

 

Do you really want to mantain a relationship with a woman like this?

 

Yes. I outright asked her if she had any feelings for these guys and she said no. That was the point. Just feeling desired was the point.

 

 

 

I don't think anyone wants to know my answer to this right now. I'm battling between what my instinct is saying and what my head is saying.

[Yasuandio]

RightThere, as you know, I'm a total idiot sometimes, and I'm divorced. Reading through these selected quotes from Beach's post remind me of a great lesson I learned of why my problems with former husband persisted no matter how sweet, loving and forgiving I was.

 

The lesson is that by being sweet, loving and/or forgiving in the face of abhorant or eggregious behavior is a "reward" to the perpetrator. That makes it a good reason for the perp to continue on and repeat the behavior - even if they receive a bit of negative static, they are really rewarded in the end. And the goes on, perpetrator feels more and more powerful, and they are - they've effectively taken your power away from you.

 

Have you read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson? It is a classic. In a nutshell - Dobson believes a "crisis" must be created when an egregious act occurs in the marriage (rather than instant, cheap forgiveness as Abrams would put it). The "simi-crisis" going on in your household is not convincing. Doesn't demonstrate how serious you are either (a weakness on your part). I think you should look at Dobson - it is inexpensive on Amazon.

 

I understand no one will change your mind. But your continuance as a weak person with no backbone, that just sucks it up after all that is quoted above, I fear, is going to gain you nothing but disrespect and contempt from your wife in the next go round. Dobson is good at explaining how this dynamic works. It's not to late to change direction. Hope this helps, Yas

[RightThere]

It's odd, and maybe I'm just kidding myself, but I don't feel weak. I feel in charge of my life and where it's going.

 

I remember how I felt in the immediate aftermath and the time during "fake reconciliation". I was needy, wanting affirmation, insecure. But I don't feel that way now. I feel like I have the ability to end it when I so choose. If we go backwards, I know I can end it and be OK being alone. I recognize that she needs to work on herself. What she does and what she says. But I feel like I'm not afraid of anything.

 

She could tell me today that she's decided not to work on anything with me anymore, and I know I wouldn't beg or plead. I would say "fine" and move on with myself.

 

But yeah, I feel like there is a little something there still. And Beach, I know you've said it to me a couple of times and I haven't addressed it. I did say early on if she was cheating, I'd leave. That if she broke my trust, it would be gone forever.

 

So in actuality, talk from me is fairly cheap as well. In spite of that, this has been the most horrific time in my life, but I've also been opened up to many things I didn't know about myself. I've had to reevaluate what I thought to be true, and what is really in front of me. All that means is I have changed in many ways. And some of those things I felt were right, maybe weren't what I thought they were to me.

 

The saying that has been ringing a lot with me lately is I can either be right, or I can be happy. I don't know which one I am right now, but I'm fairly sure I just want more to be happy.

[2sunny]

Happy is a decision the mind makes.

 

 

I want to ask - IF you were to reconcile - how could you ever trust this lying, cheating woman? I don't see how it's possible - unless she COMPLETELY changes all of who she is and stays changed for many years!

 

 

Your essentially (now) begging and hoping this cheater gives you more of the same. She hasn't changed for the better - and she doesn't intend to!

 

 

Waiting for her is just wasting your time and energy!

 

You CAN change you/ yourself/your actions- and reactions to no reaction at ALL!

 

That would be taking your power back - to not care about her and her scummy behavior!

 

Doing nothing is actually something!

[Yasuandio]

I recently came across this article by Evan Marc Katz that contains a very simple "System for Maintaining Healthy Relationships.". He is really speaking about women in the on-line dating community - but I think it applies to all situations, or eventually, it will.

 

1. Accept her how she is.

 

2. Show her how to please you.

 

3. If you can't accept her as she is and she's not pleasing you, dump her.

 

Yas

[RightThere]

I want to ask - IF you were to reconcile - how could you ever trust this lying, cheating woman? I don't see how it's possible - unless she COMPLETELY changes all of who she is and stays changed for many years!

 

I don't know if I could. You are absolutely right that she could keep on lying and cheating. The flip side to that is, how do I know the next person wouldn't do the same thing?

 

I guess what I'm getting at is I realize there are no guarantees in this. I could make myself much worse off. But I am much smarter and I know what I need to do better and I also know what she needs to do better. If either of us can't do those things, then I recognize that it will be unlikely to work.

 

Is it impossible for her to change? Or is it unlikely for her to change? Nothing is impossible but maybe it is in the realm of unlikely. If I'm honest with myself, I guess I do feel like we never got a real change to try reconciliation. If we go down that path, I would be much more guarded this time and much smarter about it.

 

But I've gotten through my recovery more lately by not thinking about things as much, not over analyzing and just getting through each day with whatever is presented to me. So in this situation, I'm no trying to over think it either. Just seeing what tomorrow has in store.

[2sunny]

What you aren't acknowledging is that she isn't changing.

 

You keep thinking she might - but she's not making ANY attempt to consider changing herself or reconciling.

 

She wasn't even doing it last fall when she SAID she was willing.

 

When a woman shows you she's done and it's over = you're better off believing it and taking the action that shows it is over.

 

Your false hope seems to be based on your delusions.

[trippi1432]

I don't know if I could. You are absolutely right that she could keep on lying and cheating. The flip side to that is, how do I know the next person wouldn't do the same thing?

 

I hate to say this, but he's right and that makes sense. I hear it all the time at work....better to go with the devil you know than the devil you don't know. Is that always right? In some cases. sure....if you want to become stagnant...but to grow, is to take the devil by the tail, and move forward.

[beach]

Who cares what she is or isn't doing at this point.

 

You should learn to be happy on your own!

 

Handing any woman that much power that it controls all your emotions is absurd when she's treated you like crap.

 

 

Your happiness doesn't need to be based on any woman.

 

Are you doing counseling?

[RightThere]

I hate to say this, but he's right and that makes sense. I hear it all the time at work....better to go with the devil you know than the devil you don't know. Is that always right? In some cases. sure....if you want to become stagnant...but to grow, is to take the devil by the tail, and move forward.

 

I guess I didn't mean it in the same sense of "the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know".

 

I guess my point was I do not know if my STBXW can be faithful. I do not know if any woman I date could be faithful. I wouldn't consider reconciliation because I'm more afraid of meeting another woman who could possibly cheat. I would consider reconciliation because my STBXW was putting in the work to try and change.

 

I don't know if that's even different than what you said actually.

[RightThere]

Who cares what she is or isn't doing at this point.

 

You should learn to be happy on your own!

 

Handing any woman that much power that it controls all your emotions is absurd when she's treated you like crap.

 

Your happiness doesn't need to be based on any woman.

 

I think it's being assumed that I need my STBXW to be happy. That could not be further from the truth. I have been able to find my own happiness without her. It is something I'm still working on, but I am perfectly happy without her right now.

 

Any possible reconciliation would just be that. I don't need it for happiness or making me whole again. It would be my choice because it would be something in addition to what is already in my life. Without it, I'll be just fine.

 

Are you doing counseling?

 

No I'm not. I don't feel like I need it right now. I've got plenty of things in my life, including this place, to give me enough info and perspective. If you think I need counselling so that a counselor will tell me I should not even consider reconciliation, then you're not suggesting I should see a counselor. You're suggesting I should talk to someone with your opinion.

 

But I still love ya beach.

[beach]

I was suggesting counseling to help you understand why you might consider reconciling.

 

Why you wouldn't think you deserve a better life than with someone who cheats and lies.

 

And how to be strong enough to consider that you deserve more than a gal that's making no effort for your well being.

[RightThere]

I was suggesting counseling to help you understand why you might consider reconciling.

 

Why you wouldn't think you deserve a better life than with someone who cheats and lies.

 

Why might I consider reconciliation? Because I do still love her. Because we do still have a good time when we do things together. Because we compliment each other. Because I do recognize much better what she needs from me in a relationship. Despite some of the horrible things she has done to me, she has also done some very wonderful things for me as well.

 

Why do I think I don't deserve a better life without her? First off, where have I ever said I don't deserve a great life? Because I'm open to the thought of reconciliation, that only means I would accept it if I thought I would be making my life better. I believe I'm smart(er) enough and strong enough now to know if reconciliation would make me worse off.

 

And how to be strong enough to consider that you deserve more than a gal that's making no effort for your well being.

 

As for "no effort" that's not entirely fair at this point. I am by no stretch getting full effort from her right now. She is putting some forward, but obviously not enough to make it work. And I am aware of that. I'm allowing some effort to be made, but guarding myself that I know before making any decisions one way or another, I need to see tons of effort and commitment.

 

My head space is much better than it ever has been. It's not the best it's been since D-Day, but that's because I've allowed some of my emotions into play that are clouding my judgement. However I'm aware of those emotions so I can work on keeping them in check so I don't make any decisions based on them.

 

Appreciate the concern, though.

[RightThere]

So I just got a message from my STBXW that she officially ended it with her OM.

 

To be totally honest, I don't feel any different than I did before I got that news. She's in the process of sending me her half of the money for the separation agreement. Once I get that, I can pay for it, pick it up, get it signed, and we're officially separated.

 

She asked for some space, which I told her take as much as she needs (and not in a condescending way).

 

I've noticed the past two weeks I have not been sleeping well at all. I have my suspicions about what is causing me to be so restless, but I think they are things I'm not quite ready to confront.