Here goes

[It-is-what-it-is.]

So lets change it up a bit Grasshopper.

 

What did you do just for yourself today?

 

Are you eating? Sleeping? Drinking plenty (of water?) getting out of the house?

 

I think maybe (because you are all calm and taking all the blame) we forget you are basically 2 days from DDAY. And we focus on the red flags but we are not being supportive.

 

My sincerest apologies.

 

How can we help you.

[grassisorisntgreener]

Why haven't you kicked her lying a$$ out the minute she lied again?

 

Because he doesn't want to be without her and because he wants this to work.

 

Why are you afraid of her?

 

He doesn't want to be alone.

 

It's so easy for everyone to say they would kick a liar/cheater out, but after a very long marriage, it isn't that easy to just let things or people go. Not without a fight. Whether she is genuine in wanting to reconcile, he can't control that, nor at this moment so soon after D-Day can he control his feelings. I am guessing he doesn't want a divorce, he doesn't want to be alone or raise his child alone. What he wants is his wife to be sorry and to come back home so they can be a family again.

 

That's how much husband would feel.

[RightThere]

Really, just really? And you think it's still ok?

 

She's lying! And lying - and giving you half truths, and trickle truths and lying by omissions.

 

Why haven't you kicked her lying a$$ out the minute she lied again?

 

I don't think we can help you- you have no boundary - and since that seems the case - she will just walk and trample all over you!

 

But YOU are ALLOWING it by not doing more to help yourself.

 

So at his point - allowing her to run the show is only your fault...because you're unwilling to set a boundary and do more for yourself.

 

Why are you afraid of her?

 

I appreciate your input. I do. And I read a bit of your background and how you handled your situation. I get it. But you're starting to go off the deep end here a little bit. We're different. And how you handled things is totally your prerogative. You're just starting to make a lot of assumptions on the situation because I'm sure you are frustrated with how I'm handling it.

 

But this is how I'm doing it. For now.

[RightThere]

What did you do just for yourself today?

 

Are you eating? Sleeping? Drinking plenty (of water?) getting out of the house?

 

Today I'll be going to the gym. Alone. I'm eating, had a good sleep, and taking care of myself.

 

I think maybe (because you are all calm and taking all the blame) we forget you are basically 2 days from DDAY. And we focus on the red flags but we are not being supportive.

 

My sincerest apologies.

 

How can we help you.

 

I'm not sure where the "taking all the blame" comes from. I'm not. Since Wednesday night, I've had 8 separate apologies for the affairs and the lying. No caveats of "but it's not all my fault". Just straight up owning it and being remorseful for it. As for actions to go along with it, she did not go to her running group, and she cancelled her trip this weekend. Today she threw away a purse that was a gift from one of them (I didn't know this until today). With the weekend upon us, I'm hoping to see more action.

 

I think maybe (because you are all calm and taking all the blame) we forget you are basically 2 days from DDAY. And we focus on the red flags but we are not being supportive.

 

My sincerest apologies.

 

How can we help you.

 

No apologies (from anyone) required. All of this is help. I want every bit of information, every opinion, and it all gets considered equally. Including all the red flags.

[RightThere]

Because he doesn't want to be without her and because he wants this to work.

 

If I'm being honest, I do want it to work out.

 

he doesn't want to be alone or raise his child alone.

 

I'm not afraid of this. This I know. Despite everything, I am a good parent and so is she. We could be separated but still raise our child well. As for being alone, I have no fear about that.

 

It's so easy for everyone to say they would kick a liar/cheater out, but after a very long marriage, it isn't that easy to just let things or people go. Not without a fight.

 

I believe that most people here understand the situation because they've been in it. But I do believe in the fight. Maybe it isn't all my fight to have, but I pick my battles. And this is one I want to fight today.

[Mr. Lucky]

I believe that most people here understand the situation because they've been in it. But I do believe in the fight. Maybe it isn't all my fight to have, but I pick my battles. And this is one I want to fight today.

Just to change things up a little bit, what do you plan on doing differently in terms of your actions and contributions to a healthier marriage ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[RightThere]

Just to change things up a little bit, what do you plan on doing differently in terms of your actions and contributions to a healthier marriage ???

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It's very important to her to feel wanted and desired. Some of the same stuff i mentioned pre-D-Day. Getting to the gym a couple times a week (for me and her). I think getting out and doing more things together is important too. Previously I let her do too much of her own thing. Or too many events/outings with just her and our kid.

 

She's run lots of races and I can count on one finger the number of times I've been at the finish line with our kid. That needs to be more.

 

I buy her things, but I actually realized yesterday in the 8 years we've been together, I've never gotten her sexy underwear. That needs to be moooooore.

 

And in counselling, we need to work on our communication. I'm sure very standard in failing marriage situations, but something else we need to focus on.

[Mr. Lucky]

And other than the obvious focus on fidelity, what changes are your seeking from her?

 

Mr. Lucky

[2sunny]

It's very important to her to feel wanted and desired. Some of the same stuff i mentioned pre-D-Day. Getting to the gym a couple times a week (for me and her). I think getting out and doing more things together is important too. Previously I let her do too much of her own thing. Or too many events/outings with just her and our kid.

 

She's run lots of races and I can count on one finger the number of times I've been at the finish line with our kid. That needs to be more.

 

I buy her things, but I actually realized yesterday in the 8 years we've been together, I've never gotten her sexy underwear. That needs to be moooooore.

 

And in counselling, we need to work on our communication. I'm sure very standard in failing marriage situations, but something else we need to focus on.

 

This is a good thought pattern - but you seem to overlook that SHE needs to be doing more for YOU too!

 

And communication, yes, she needs to start telling you what she needs from you instead of looking outside the M to fulfill her needs. Have you asked her if she's willing to do that?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

How you doing?

[RightThere]

And communication, yes, she needs to start telling you what she needs from you instead of looking outside the M to fulfill her needs. Have you asked her if she's willing to do that?

 

We did talk a lot about this. Specifically I asked about some of the "triggers" that happened which caused her to move away from me and look elsewhere for fulfillment. It was things I knew, but didn't realize how important they were to her.

 

She committed to me that if there is something that she is not getting, she will come to me to talk about it. And I will not be clamming up if I think there is something on either of our minds. Previously I think we both got pretty lazy (I wouldn't ask and she wouldn't tell).

[RightThere]

How you doing?

 

Thank you for checking on me. Weekends I won't post much as I work Monday - Friday and I need to get lots of family stuff in.

 

I am doing good, but I know there is a lot of work to be done. We've talked a lot and we are both still 100% committed to fixing this. We've definitely been falling back into a honeymoon phase and I totally recognize it. I even said to her that this is great, but we need to keep working for any of the potential bumps along the road.

 

One thing we talked about were her friends. She has a few different groups of friends, but one helped with the cover-up (2 girls in the group knew about the affairs). I know the standard practice is to remove any and all friends who are not friends of the marriage. They actually have a girls weekend planned upcoming that she offered to cancel out of.

 

I told her I wanted her to still go. Although they facilitated the affairs, I know they didn't push an affair on my wife. And they did challenge her on the affairs, but it was my wife's decision to do it.

 

I have no allusions about where I'm at today. I love my wife, I've chosen to forgive her for the affairs, and I'm handling the situation very contrary to much of the advice that is given to me. However I am going to fight for this. Even up until our last counselling session, I know my wife was looking for me to fight for this. There have been other things that have come up that I didn't fight for her on. Early on in our relationship she got an email from a co-worker where he invited her to come over one weekend when his wife was away. She showed it to me when she got it and I kind of dismissed it because this guy was a fat loser and I figured my wife had no interest in him. Nothing ever happened, but she admitted to me that she wished a part of me would have fought for her a bit.

 

Anyways, I'm still going to work hard on this.

[RightThere]

And other than the obvious focus on fidelity, what changes are your seeking from her?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I actually saw this on Fri and couldn't write a lot down about it. It's a little funny because at our last counselling session, my wife spilled the beans immediately to our counselor about the affairs. He actually showed us his notes and said that was the first thing he was going to ask her today because he could tell something was up based on how she had been at the last few sessions. In 3 hours this guy picked up on what I had missed for eight years.

 

In my mind, the focus on fidelity encompasses a lot of what was wrong with her. She wouldn't communicate well when something bothered her. If there were stresses in her life, she would avoid talking to me about them. Because of carrying around the secret she was verbally abusive, withdrawn and unaffectionate.

 

When my wife is good, she is great. Buying me gifts, planning events, looking to improve our house, lives and family. I think getting rid of the infidelity will help her focus back on those good things, but also help me know more about what she needs. I've been bad at receiving gifts from her. I know now that part of her joy comes from actually giving those gifts to me.

 

So to be honest, the only thing I've really thought about wanting from her is her commitment to our marriage. Plus she is a very sexual being. In the past she's been reluctant to explore that with me, mainly from being a bit shut down by me in the past. I told her that we're starting fresh on that. I want her to do anything and everything with me. I even took her copy of 50 Shades of Grey and told her I'm going to get into some serious research.

 

I don't know if that was really an answer to your question, but after 4 days of thinking about it, that really is the best I could come up with.

[2sunny]

That's good that she's willing to be honest in front of the counselor!

 

Is she willing to be honest with you when your not in that office?

 

Has your wife looked into whether or not she may be bipolar? Some of the extreme swings in her actions and words make me think she may be inconsistent/unstable.

 

You only need a commitment to the M... What, exactly, does that look like for YOU? Be specific.

[RightThere]

That's good that she's willing to be honest in front of the counselor!

 

Is she willing to be honest with you when your not in that office?

 

When I see something is on her mind, I ask and I get good answers/information (outside of the obvious previous omission). I think that she will not always be forthcoming with things that bother her. Although she committed to work on that, it will probably be something I need to be on top of and not ignore.

 

Has your wife looked into whether or not she may be bipolar? Some of the extreme swings in her actions and words make me think she may be inconsistent/unstable.

 

She definitely feels like she is undiagnosed ADHD. As for putting a label on anything else, I think that the balance of what causes these things for her is much more Nurture versus Nature. I'll just say that she's been a very damaged person her whole life.

 

 

You only need a commitment to the M... What, exactly, does that look like for YOU? Be specific.

 

She's offered some, I just haven't taken all of them. She offered to quit her running group. I told her that she just either needs to just make sure he's not there, or she's not there. She even talked about dropping her group of friends that helped in the cover-up of the affairs. I told her that I wouldn't make her do that. Although I know this weekend she was working on re-establishing some old relationships with other friends.

 

I'm going to be honest and say I don't know what that looks like today. I had the wool totally over my eyes for so long that all the great things in our marriage to date, the things that I thought were a commitment to our marriage, are all a little tainted because the affairs were going on at the same time as all the great things in our marriage that I loved.

 

I guess it's just going to be the quality time we spend together now. If she's going to run errands, I will want to come along. Not because I want to keep tabs on her, but because I enjoy spending even that kind of time with her (I always have). We'll need to do more things together as a couple. Fewer "doing our own things" with friends.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

When I see something is on her mind, I ask and I get good answers/information (outside of the obvious previous omission). I think that she will not always be forthcoming with things that bother her. Although she committed to work on that, it will probably be something I need to be on top of and not ignore.

 

She definitely feels like she is undiagnosed ADHD. As for putting a label on anything else, I think that the balance of what causes these things for her is much more Nurture versus Nature. I'll just say that she's been a very damaged person her whole life.

 

She's offered some, I just haven't taken all of them. She offered to quit her running group. I told her that she just either needs to just make sure he's not there, or she's not there. She even talked about dropping her group of friends that helped in the cover-up of the affairs. I told her that I wouldn't make her do that. Although I know this weekend she was working on re-establishing some old relationships with other friends.

 

I'm going to be honest and say I don't know what that looks like today. I had the wool totally over my eyes for so long that all the great things in our marriage to date, the things that I thought were a commitment to our marriage, are all a little tainted because the affairs were going on at the same time as all the great things in our marriage that I loved.

 

I guess it's just going to be the quality time we spend together now. If she's going to run errands, I will want to come along. Not because I want to keep tabs on her, but because I enjoy spending even that kind of time with her (I always have). We'll need to do more things together as a couple. Fewer "doing our own things" with friends.

 

Grasshopper...why would you not accept, at least for the near term, her offers of changes? The running group? Especially the friends? These friends facilitates the affairs, encouraged them and did not tell her she was screwing up. They should not be part of her life while she is trying too recover and likely never again. You will hinder HER recovery by not encouraging her to do this, if not for you but for her.

 

You continue to accept too much responsibility for her actions, and ultimately this provides her with the ability to not dig deep and figure out her mess. You seem to have KISA (knight in shining armor) and unfortunately this, in the end, keeps her from growing up.

 

You are not helping either one of you by letting her have a pass on all of this.

[2sunny]

Grasshopper...why would you not accept, at least for the near term, her offers of changes? The running group? Especially the friends? These friends facilitates the affairs, encouraged them and did not tell her she was screwing up. They should not be part of her life while she is trying too recover and likely never again. You will hinder HER recovery by not encouraging her to do this, if not for you but for her.

 

You continue to accept too much responsibility for her actions, and ultimately this provides her with the ability to not dig deep and figure out her mess. You seem to have KISA (knight in shining armor) and unfortunately this, in the end, keeps her from growing up.

 

You are not helping either one of you by letting her have a pass on all of this.

 

Yes, I agree!!!

 

Accept her offer to quit the running group - heck, she will need to SEE him to know he's there!

 

And she re establishing more friends- ask to see her conversations with them - see what she's telling them.

 

This IS about what SHE'S willing to CHANGE - so roadblocking change just keeps things the same.

 

The OLD marriage died! Create a NEW marriage. EVERYTHING MUST CHANGE. Is she willing to let you look at all her correspondence with others?

[Mr. Lucky]

You are not helping either one of you by letting her have a pass on all of this.

Agreed. Much research in the business world showing that people value what they pay for and are willing to pay for what they value. As a couple, you are "0 for 2" is this regard. You don't demand and, as a consequence, she doesn't perform. A toxic combination in a familial setting that leads to spoiled children and wayward spouses...

 

Mr. Lucky

[RightThere]

The running group? Especially the friends? These friends facilitates the affairs, encouraged them and did not tell her she was screwing up.

 

The running group she is actually reaching out to another totally separate group. So change is happening there. Her friends did facilitate. But they did not encourage or keep silent about her screwing up. Out of the three friends that knew, one was very critical towards her of the entire thing. Never facilitated, just knew about it. The other two friends did question her about if she was sure, if this was the right thing to do. So it wasn't a circle of encouragement, just support (if that makes sense). May six of one, half a dozen of the other, but that was the situation.

 

They should not be part of her life while she is trying too recover and likely never again. You will hinder HER recovery by not encouraging her to do this, if not for you but for her.

 

I will discuss this upcoming trip again with her. Maybe it was a small plea from her saying "please tell me not to go".

[It-is-what-it-is.]

The running group she is actually reaching out to another totally separate group. So change is happening there. Her friends did facilitate. But they did not encourage or keep silent about her screwing up. Out of the three friends that knew, one was very critical towards her of the entire thing. Never facilitated, just knew about it. The other two friends did question her about if she was sure, if this was the right thing to do. So it wasn't a circle of encouragement, just support (if that makes sense). May six of one, half a dozen of the other, but that was the situation.

 

 

 

I will discuss this upcoming trip again with her. Maybe it was a small plea from her saying "please tell me not to go".

 

Read the rest of what I said. Let her grow up and learn to deal with the consequences of her choices.

 

Anyone in her life that planned trips, allowed them to be used as cover, etc. that is facilitation. Those people need to be gone.

 

But really, the more you talk the more I can tell you are PROTECTING her against consequence, blaming yourself, not requiring or accepting changes that might be painful or disappointing to her.

 

This is totally wrong.

 

You prevent her from being able to help herself, or prove to you she is trying. It also is like putting a drunk in a job in a bar as soon as they are dry. Eventually might be ok, but at first a very bad idea, because no matter how bad she might want it, she does not have enough stable time behind her.

 

I am not blaming you...I am not. Please stop being afraid of what will happen if she has to face the consequence of her choices.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I will discuss this upcoming trip again with her. Maybe it was a small plea from her saying "please tell me not to go".

 

She should not be going on pleasure trips for some time to come.

 

This is a big mistake for you to allow this and not draw the line right there.

 

This is a mistake for both of you.

 

I do not want to find you here in a month when she had another affair because she is still foggy and looking for a way to dull the pain in the way she is most familiar.

[RightThere]

I don't really need a lot of replies to this because I already know. But to be fair to the whole process, I'm going to post it anyways.

 

My wife had a seminar today that she organized at work. She didn't think much was going on for lunch so this morning she said that she wanted to go for lunch with me if the presenters were going to be leaving at lunch. She said she'd call me and let me know either way.

 

I haven't heard boo yet. Not quite a new low for me, but on my way.

[revitup]

She probably got tied up.

 

REVITUP

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I don't really need a lot of replies to this because I already know. But to be fair to the whole process, I'm going to post it anyways.

 

My wife had a seminar today that she organized at work. She didn't think much was going on for lunch so this morning she said that she wanted to go for lunch with me if the presenters were going to be leaving at lunch. She said she'd call me and let me know either way.

 

I haven't heard boo yet. Not quite a new low for me, but on my way.

 

Sorry. Let us know if we can help or not.

[2sunny]

When the one who cheated doesn't keep their word - its hard to believe that their actions will change.

 

Have you left her a message stating that her lack of follow through doesn't match her words?

 

Read the four agreements Don Miguel Ruiz. The first agreement is "be impeccable with your word".

 

How can she be believable if she doesn't DO what she says?