is this cheating?

[jennifersmith]

I have a friend who I am extremely close with, I felt very emotionally attached to him, and we spent a lot of time together. (Coincidentally, we also work together at the same place). Our job is very flexible, so it allows us to spend most of the day together on an everyday basis. We also go out on trips and spend vacation time together. I know he cares deeply for me as well. He is married and I am in a long term relationship. This has gone on for some time already (over 4 yrs).

 

Is this acceptable?

[todreaminblue]

I have a friend who I am extremely close with, I felt very emotionally attached to him, and we spent a lot of time together. (Coincidentally, we also work together at the same place). Our job is very flexible, so it allows us to spend most of the day together on an everyday basis. We also go out on trips and spend vacation time together. I know he cares deeply for me as well. He is married and I am in a long term relationship. This has gone on for some time already (over 4 yrs).

 

Is this acceptable?

 

for me, this is a rule i follow, if i am unsure of whether something is acceptable...for me...it normally isnt acceptable to pursue......I think you know you are on shaky ground the more time you spend with him, the more you are going to get emotionally attached to him....and he isnt available.....in my mind it makes him and the whole situation unacceptable and possibly hurtful to all involved......to you to him to his wife and family.....if he has a family that is......

 

 

 

vacationing with a married man.....would you like it if you were married to him and he went vacationing with a co worker.......

 

 

 

you have to have respect for his wife and his marriage vows whether he does or not.....to me that is unspoken necessity when thinking about a married guy, he has made a promise to a woman who loves him and that promise wasnt for you, but it is a promise you should respect ........i wish you well and happiness with a mr right for you not a mr right now..........deb

[jennifersmith]

Thank you for the reply, but maybe I was misunderstood. I am not going to "pursue" anything, and I am not going to break off a friendship with one of the person that I found important to me just because we're on "shaky" ground. While I know I care very much for him, and exactly because of that, I am not going to pursue anything further than just being friends, and I know very well he won't either (we have numerous opportunities to have physical relationship but he didn't take any advantage of those situations). I am not sure if that is construe as a betrayal to anyone,... Is it acceptable that there is an emotional relationship that is developed outside of a marriage? In some way, I believe most people cannot get everything out of a marriage and sometimes, it is better that there is a place for each other to go to when the relationship gets to be too much. We were both otherwise dedicated partners to our other halfs. If that is the case, why is it even wrong to begin with.

[jennifersmith]

I am not trying to justify it and it's not necessary to pass judgement. I hope this would be a place where people sharings are constructive and perhaps people that have similar experiences could share some thoughts on it.

 

Hypothetically speaking, if that person is not a married man and is a married woman (and assuming, I am also equally emotionally involved with this married woman), then I am sure no one will ask me to break off a friendship. What I am trying to say is, it often happens to be the case that someone that we are heavily invested in emotionally might not necessarily be our partner, but at what point it is unacceptable to all the parties involved, I am not sure.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I am not trying to justify it and it's not necessary to pass judgement. I hope this would be a place where people sharings are constructive and perhaps people that have similar experiences could share some thoughts on it.

 

Hypothetically speaking, if that person is not a married man and is a married woman (and assuming, I am also equally emotionally involved with this married woman), then I am sure no one will ask me to break off a friendship. What I am trying to say is, it often happens to be the case that someone that we are heavily invested in emotionally might not necessarily be our partner, but at what point it is unacceptable to all the parties involved, I am not sure.

 

Actually, the barometer should be the degree to which the side relationship impacts either or your committed relationships. Not the gender of the person. If you are turning to friend, instead of your spouse you ALWAYS negatively impact your relationship. Always always...so as it progresses or not it makes no difference.

 

Read NOT JUST FRIENDS.

[LBlanc]

I am not trying to justify it and it's not necessary to pass judgement. I hope this would be a place where people sharings are constructive and perhaps people that have similar experiences could share some thoughts on it.

 

Hypothetically speaking, if that person is not a married man and is a married woman (and assuming, I am also equally emotionally involved with this married woman), then I am sure no one will ask me to break off a friendship. What I am trying to say is, it often happens to be the case that someone that we are heavily invested in emotionally might not necessarily be our partner, but at what point it is unacceptable to all the parties involved, I am not sure.

 

Do you talk to your married friend about intimate things about your SO? Do you ask your married friend for advice on how to deal with relationship issues with your SO? Does your married friend know intimate and personal things about you that your SO does not? If you and your SO have a fight, would your married friend be the first person you talk to about it? Do you spend more time with this married friend than your SO? Do you enjoy spending more time with your married friend than with your SO? If something great just happened to you, would your married friend be the first person you tell about it? If something bad just happened to you, would your married friend be the first person you call for help or complain about? Are there things you talk about with your friend that you don't talk about with your SO?

 

If the majority of the answers to those questions are yes (on your part and your married friend)...i'd say both of you are on the borderlines of an EA...it doesn't matter if you don't have any intention to 'pursue' at the moment...at this point, things between you and your married friend could change at a drop of a hat without you realizing it...and it wouldn't take much...IMHO

 

P.S. how does your SO feel about your relationship with the married man?

Edited August 3, 2013 by LBlanc
ps

[jennifersmith]

Do you talk to your married friend about intimate things about your SO? Do you ask your married friend for advice on how to deal with relationship issues with your SO? Does your married friend know intimate and personal things about you that your SO does not? If you and your SO have a fight, would your married friend be the first person you talk to about it? Do you spend more time with this married friend than your SO? Do you enjoy spending more time with your married friend than with your SO? If something great just happened to you, would your married friend be the first person you tell about it? If something bad just happened to you, would your married friend be the first person you call for help or complain about? Are there things you talk about with your friend that you don't talk about with your SO?

 

If the majority of the answers to those questions are yes (on your part and your married friend)...i'd say both of you are on the borderlines of an EA...it doesn't matter if you don't have any intention to 'pursue' at the moment...at this point, things between you and your married friend could change at a drop of a hat without you realizing it...and it wouldn't take much...IMHO

 

P.S. how does your SO feel about your relationship with the married man?

 

 

Unfortuantely, the answers are yes to all of them, I do spend a lot of time with him, and have a lot of intimate sharings, the things we would do is no differ than what likely a couple would (for example have a romantic dinner, long walks, leisure and work trips etc).

 

My SO do not perceive him as someone that I could possibly romantically involve with and he is very invested with his own work and the nature of both of our jobs revolve around traveling a lot separately.

 

I know I'm treading on dangerous grounds, but I am unsure what I could do (or if I am willing to do) otherwise.

[2sunny]

If you speak of/do things things that you know your SO wouldn't like IF they knew - then it's more likely inappropriate.

 

Those are things that should be shared and valued between you and your SO - and for him, him and his wife.

[LBlanc]

Unfortuantely, the answers are yes to all of them, I do spend a lot of time with him, and have a lot of intimate sharings, the things we would do is no differ than what likely a couple would (for example have a romantic dinner, long walks, leisure and work trips etc).

 

My SO do not perceive him as someone that I could possibly romantically involve with and he is very invested with his own work and the nature of both of our jobs revolve around traveling a lot separately.

 

I know I'm treading on dangerous grounds, but I am unsure what I could do (or if I am willing to do) otherwise.

 

easy to find friends...but not someone to love...question is with whom are you really in love with?

[Realist3]

Unfortuantely, the answers are yes to all of them, I do spend a lot of time with him, and have a lot of intimate sharings, the things we would do is no differ than what likely a couple would (for example have a romantic dinner, long walks, leisure and work trips etc).

 

I would say you are definitely cheating.

[JustAReformedGirl]

I have a friend who I am extremely close with, I felt very emotionally attached to him, and we spent a lot of time together. (Coincidentally, we also work together at the same place). Our job is very flexible, so it allows us to spend most of the day together on an everyday basis. We also go out on trips and spend vacation time together. I know he cares deeply for me as well. He is married and I am in a long term relationship. This has gone on for some time already (over 4 yrs).

 

Is this acceptable?

 

I think what determines the acceptability is how his wife and your boyfriend feel on the matter. Are your respective partners aware of how much time you two spend together? If so, and they aren't bothered by it, I would say you're in the clear-as long as you never cross a specific line.

 

If either of your partners have expressed concern about this, then their feelings should be taken into account. Hopefully neither one of them would ask you to stop being friends with one another, but they may ask you to not spend as much time together, if it makes either of them uncomfortable.

 

More importantly, the feelings you and this friend share-are they truly platonic, or is there more at work, here?

[jennifersmith]

I am not sure how he felt about me honestly. It could be totally platonic on his side, and it's probably me that is thinking too much of the relationship. I would assume his wife won't know how I feel about him but he wasn't lying or anything (in most cases) if he's out to see me or if he's spending time with me. And i would not lie about spending time with him with my SO. I assume both parties are okay now and at least my SO has not asked me to keep any distance. If one day it comes down to it, and that my SO ask me to disengage from this friend, I would make the choice of separating with my SO instead.

[WisdomSeeker]

I have a friend who I am extremely close with, I felt very emotionally attached to him, and we spent a lot of time together. (Coincidentally, we also work together at the same place). Our job is very flexible, so it allows us to spend most of the day together on an everyday basis. We also go out on trips and spend vacation time together. I know he cares deeply for me as well. He is married and I am in a long term relationship. This has gone on for some time already (over 4 yrs).

 

Is this acceptable?

 

Honestly, the relationship between you and this other man seems highly inappropriate. He is married and is therefore under obligation to his spouse to abide by the stipulations of their union in both letter and spirit. No, you two have not done anything that is blatantly in violation of his marital commitment (no adultery just yet so he is following the letter of the contract), but you are rather obviously sharing an emotional bond that intrudes on that which he shares with his wife.

[Realist3]

If one day it comes down to it, and that my SO ask me to disengage from this friend, I would make the choice of separating with my SO instead.

 

Right there you admit your SO is second to this married man. I think the word is denial.

[nescafe1982]

Unfortuantely, the answers are yes to all of them...

 

I know I'm treading on dangerous grounds, but I am unsure what I could do (or if I am willing to do) otherwise.

 

I think it's pretty clear that this friendship is inappropriate as it stands right now. You will have to find new boundaries and lay them down, and the sooner the better. There's no reason this friendship couldn't thrive in a healthier setting... but YOU will have to be the one to establish that healthier setting.

 

With my married-men friends, I have the following (unspoken) boundaries:

- I don't share intimate details of my relationship, especially things I haven't spoken to my SO about. (Occasional advice is different than over-sharing... the point is to be less intimate with someone who is not your mate).

- I don't meet them one-on-one, over dinner, at the movies, or in any other setting that could be misconstrued as "romantic" by his SO or anyone else. Group gatherings are really the best option for a "recovering" inappropriate relationship such as the one you're describing.

- Where possible, I include the wife in social plans. I'm usually friends with the wives of my married friends, and my BF knows most of my friends too.

- No late-night calls, not too many texts, no communications that could be seen as too intimate by any party.

 

This is a good starting place. I agree with others here that the relationship you're describing sounds inappropriate. The good news is that it sounds like it could be fixed through a simple reinstatement of boundaries, and you two can likely remain friends without any weirdness.

 

Good Luck!

[JustAReformedGirl]

So, if you had to make a choice, you would disengage from your SO, instead?

 

Hmm...how long have you been with your SO?

 

Does your friendship precede your relationship with SO?

 

Have you sat down with your friend, and discussed your feelings? You assume his are platonic, but I'd also ask him about that.

 

If he has feelings for you that aren't platonic, you two need to discuss and decide a course of action to take. Yes, the friendship can continue-but you may need to lay down boundaries, as nescafe has stated.

 

Have you talked to your SO about these confusing feelings in regard to your friend? My guess is "no". So far, his wife and your SO haven't protested, but they may be feeling something about all the time you're spending together.

 

I think now would be a good time to be fully open and honest with everyone involved, before this turns into an EA or PA.

 

It's better to deal with it as it is now, than to ignore it, and find yourself in a much more complicated experience.

[drifter777]

I have a friend who I am extremely close with, I felt very emotionally attached to him, and we spent a lot of time together. (Coincidentally, we also work together at the same place). Our job is very flexible, so it allows us to spend most of the day together on an everyday basis. We also go out on trips and spend vacation time together. I know he cares deeply for me as well. He is married and I am in a long term relationship. This has gone on for some time already (over 4 yrs).

 

Is this acceptable?

If his wife doesn't know about all of the time you spend together then no, it's not acceptable.

[LBlanc]

Right there you admit your SO is second to this married man. I think the word is denial.

 

OP I would just like to add that i think your staying with your SO only because you can't have your married friend...seems like your just using your SO as a stop gap...definitely not cool..

 

seems like the better part of discretion is to step away from both your SO and your married friend...i mean what's the point? you're not in love with one but can't have the other...

 

and i don't think i need to point out what would happen if your true feelings are all laid out in the open for everyone concerned to see...

[jennifersmith]

Thank you for all the suggestions and great advices. Lblanc, I think you're half right. I don't think I'm using my SO as a stop gap, but I'd admit I found my married friend to be perfect. That said, it doesn't mean I want to be romantically involved with him at all (Because that would risk the relationship not working out and what we have now). Of course, in a perfect world, everyone are moral and everyone oblige to their marriage vows etc., but this is not a perfect world and I am selfish (I won't want to fix something that's not broken, so to speak), if I lay things out in the open, it will leave him with no choice but to 'leave' this relationship or to act on this relationship. Neither of the above is something I want at this moment.

 

My SO and are have been together for a long time, but, there are things that my married friend can give me where no one could (not my SO, or my ex BFs, or anyone in the future). Therefore, in sum, I am very happy with my SO otherwise, though, it seems to be not fair to him if I am so emotionally invested with another person at the same time. I am not sure how to relate these to my SO, and if he even wants to know about this. If i tell him frankly the above, what can he do? He can only exit the relationship, because I am not asking him to change anything, except that I am telling him he would never compare up to my married friend in my heart. Am I ready to leave him and is it best to do so at this point?

[LBlanc]

Thank you for all the suggestions and great advices. Lblanc, I think you're half right. I don't think I'm using my SO as a stop gap, but I'd admit I found my married friend to be perfect. That said, it doesn't mean I want to be romantically involved with him at all (Because that would risk the relationship not working out and what we have now). Of course, in a perfect world, everyone are moral and everyone oblige to their marriage vows etc., but this is not a perfect world and I am selfish (I won't want to fix something that's not broken, so to speak), if I lay things out in the open, it will leave him with no choice but to 'leave' this relationship or to act on this relationship. Neither of the above is something I want at this moment.

 

My SO and are have been together for a long time, but, there are things that my married friend can give me where no one could (not my SO, or my ex BFs, or anyone in the future). Therefore, in sum, I am very happy with my SO otherwise, though, it seems to be not fair to him if I am so emotionally invested with another person at the same time. I am not sure how to relate these to my SO, and if he even wants to know about this. If i tell him frankly the above, what can he do? He can only exit the relationship, because I am not asking him to change anything, except that I am telling him he would never compare up to my married friend in my heart. Am I ready to leave him and is it best to do so at this point?

 

Sorry OP, but i'm no Solomon...you have to decide what is best...

 

my situation a short time ago was slightly different...i walked away from a potential disastrous situation with a close married friend ... even though at that time i had no SO...didn't want to...felt like $hit after i did it (even now) because i walked away at a time when she needed me the most...but i thought it was for the best...

[jennifersmith]

Lblanc, apparently you did the right thing, though in the eyes of your married friend, she would likely want you to stay and be supportive. (though I am not sure what is the status with you and your close married friend is like).

How did your married friend react afterwards? How long did you know her?

I will never be able to just 'walk away' from this married man, obviously... So I guess the next best thing to do for myself is to at least relate this to my SO.

[LBlanc]

Lblanc, apparently you did the right thing, though in the eyes of your married friend, she would likely want you to stay and be supportive. (though I am not sure what is the status with you and your close married friend is like).

How did your married friend react afterwards? How long did you know her?

I will never be able to just 'walk away' from this married man, obviously... So I guess the next best thing to do for myself is to at least relate this to my SO.

 

knew her all my life... her parents and mine were close...how did she react?...her last message made me fell like the lowest scum on the earth...status?...haven't had contact in 10 months...also, i moved to another city...planned on it for months and didn't tell her about it so it would be easier (?) to walk away

[jennifersmith]

Lblanc, that's heartbreaking just to hear about it, can't imagine how the both of you felt. If you have known her all your life, is it possible to have a life together with her? It seems that both of you see others as very important.

[LBlanc]

Okay to be completely honest...the real reason I left was (1) the "feelings" was more one sided on her part and (2) I was fast becoming a surrogate father to her children while her husband worked overseas...

 

truth is I panicked. though we were quite close, it never crossed my mind that we would be that "close"...never told her how suffocated I felt with our friendship...I just left...I guess i'm a coward? or something like it...

[Trimmer]

P.S. how does your SO feel about your relationship with the married man?

Ah, finally someone got to the question. Do each of your partners (your SO and his wife) understand the true nature of your relationship in all its facets?

 

My appropriateness threshold is this: if there are things about this relationship that you can not or would not share with your partner - from simple facts like when you have spent time together and what you do together, to intangibles like the depth of your feelings for the other person, etc. - then you've crossed the line.

 

Sunny says the same here:

If you speak of/do things things that you know your SO wouldn't like IF they knew - then it's more likely inappropriate.

 

Those are things that should be shared and valued between you and your SO - and for him, him and his wife.

 

I think what determines the acceptability is how his wife and your boyfriend feel on the matter. Are your respective partners aware of how much time you two spend together? If so, and they aren't bothered by it, I would say you're in the clear-as long as you never cross a specific line.

I would agree with this, as long as both partners have a clear and full understanding of the relationship. For example, if they know where you go together, and for how long, but they don't know that you share an intimate emotional bond, then it doesn't work to say "Oh they know about us and it's all OK." That only works if they really, honestly, have a true and complete view of your relationship.

 

I am not sure how he felt about me honestly. It could be totally platonic on his side, and it's probably me that is thinking too much of the relationship. I would assume his wife won't know how I feel about him but he wasn't lying or anything (in most cases) if he's out to see me or if he's spending time with me.

Uh, that "in most cases" comment kinda sticks out just a little bit there - can you clarify that? If you mean he occasionally lies about particular elements of his relationship with you - perhaps just a few little difficult ones, maybe? - then he's lying to her about his relationship with you. He's either got to be fully open about it, or he's holding things back.

 

And i would not lie about spending time with him with my SO. I assume both parties are okay now and at least my SO has not asked me to keep any distance.

But I go back to my point: it's not just about telling your SO that you're "spending time with him", the question is, does your SO have a full and clear view of your relationship? If not, then you're holding things back.

 

If one day it comes down to it, and that my SO ask me to disengage from this friend, I would make the choice of separating with my SO instead.

As I think others have pointed out, doesn't that pretty much tell you a lot here? As a matter of fact, if your SO doesn't know that about the importance of this relationship, then I think you're holding back something pretty major.

 

That said, it doesn't mean I want to be romantically involved with him at all (Because that would risk the relationship not working out and what we have now).

I think you're already romantically involved with him: "...the things we would do is no differ than what likely a couple would (for example have a romantic dinner, long walks, leisure and work trips etc)." The difference is, you have this "plausible deniability" built in - since you both have partners, you can lie to yourselves and claim "oh of course it's not romantic". But it sure quacks like a duck.

 

Of course, in a perfect world, everyone are moral and everyone oblige to their marriage vows etc., but this is not a perfect world...

This is fine as a statement of the human condition, but it is extremely thin as a rationalization for behavior. You could use this to excuse anything from rudeness to crime. Do you really want to BS yourself this way? Don't you expect just a little more of yourself - and for yourself?

 

... I am selfish (I won't want to fix something that's not broken, so to speak)

I am concerned that what is broken here are the two relationships other than yours with MM, but your partners just don't know it yet.

 

Therefore, in sum, I am very happy with my SO otherwise, though, it seems to be not fair to him if I am so emotionally invested with another person at the same time. I am not sure how to relate these to my SO, and if he even wants to know about this. If i tell him frankly the above, what can he do? He can only exit the relationship, because I am not asking him to change anything, except that I am telling him he would never compare up to my married friend in my heart. Am I ready to leave him and is it best to do so at this point?

I appreciate that you recognize that it's not fair to your partner, but then you lost me again with the "maybe I won't tell him because he proabably doesn't want to know, and what could he do about it anyway?" rationalization.

 

What he can do is to be treated like an adult, and to be able to make a decision about his relationship with you, while being fully informed of all the facts and information that he deserves to know in making that decision.

 

Put another way: if it really wouldn't matter to him, then why not tell him? And if it would matter to him, then how can you possibly justify keeping it from him?