is this cheating?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Really good points Trimmer. Jennifer you should ponder. Those a good long while, let me add a couple more.

 

You are in fact in an affair. An emotional affair, and those are as destructive to relationships as physical affairs. In your case, as in most affairs, there are two people involved who are negatively impacted, yet have not consented to the level of intimacy between you two. That defines affair.

 

When this is realized by the MM BS, some of the oft heard MM comments are, "I hate to lose my friend because we let it go too far" and "I miss him/her but I can't be friends and still invest in my marriage" and most importantly..."I see now that we were not just friends, and "friends" don't encourage each other to destroy their family"

 

I think you are a warm evening and a glass of wine away from a physical affair. So you need to decide if that's the person you want to be AND who you want to help him be and all the consequences.

[LBlanc]

He's not your SO then. He's not significant in any shape or form to you. I hate you.

 

A bit extreme don't you think...OP was probably just lonely and got no one else to turn to...besides she didn't do it to you...so no need for hate...

[jennifersmith]

Thank you for the great points. I do agree to a large extent on what I should be doing, and I think a lot of the things I am saying are just justification on why I wasn't taking a step to do the right thing. I am glad that I found this forum so that I can share what I can't normally. As you would expect, I can't share any of these with even my closest friends.

 

On my side, I would also perceive that this is an intense relationship, if not an affair. I honestly do not know what is his view about this relationship. I am sure he knows how I felt about him (I have expressed how important he is to me etc), he didn't react strangely or felt anything unusual about that. Perhaps many have expressed the same to him? It could be that he just perceive me as friend, but enjoy my company. I guess it is often hard to reject if this person is so accessible to you? It can also be the case that he is also equally attracted to me and just didn't know what to do with the situation.

 

I am pretty sure his wife is not happy about me, but I think she figures she cannot control what he does and would rather not comment on any of this. He never really hides that he has a close relationship with me, even when his wife is around, he acts the same way towards me. So maybe it is only me that is thinking too much into this?

[LBlanc]

Thank you for the great points. I do agree to a large extent on what I should be doing, and I think a lot of the things I am saying are just justification on why I wasn't taking a step to do the right thing. I am glad that I found this forum so that I can share what I can't normally. As you would expect, I can't share any of these with even my closest friends.

 

On my side, I would also perceive that this is an intense relationship, if not an affair. I honestly do not know what is his view about this relationship. I am sure he knows how I felt about him (I have expressed how important he is to me etc), he didn't react strangely or felt anything unusual about that. Perhaps many have expressed the same to him? It could be that he just perceive me as friend, but enjoy my company. I guess it is often hard to reject if this person is so accessible to you? It can also be the case that he is also equally attracted to me and just didn't know what to do with the situation.

 

I am pretty sure his wife is not happy about me, but I think she figures she cannot control what he does and would rather not comment on any of this. He never really hides that he has a close relationship with me, even when his wife is around, he acts the same way towards me. So maybe it is only me that is thinking too much into this?

 

How about dialing down your contact with him...don't send any messages unless he sends one first...keep responses to bare minimum...no personal stuff...treat him like a clerk in a convenience store you see everyday but barely know anything about save his name...

 

his reaction to all this could be a good indicator on how he feels about you...

[It-is-what-it-is.]

No probably not.

 

I am assuming that the wife is waiting or assessing or maybe building evidence or something...but again...at minimum his life will blow up if you guys continue the path you are in, because it in fact degrades his marital relationship. All she may have noticed is his emotional distance, his lack of engagement with their relationship (and children if they have any)

 

You said you don't care about your SO as much so I am assuming the loss of that relationship to you is irrelevant?

 

Maybe when his life blows up you will be together, then again, he may hate you for being the cause. Who knows.

[jennifersmith]

How about dialing down your contact with him...don't send any messages unless he sends one first...keep responses to bare minimum...no personal stuff...treat him like a clerk in a convenience store you see everyday but barely know anything about save his name...

 

his reaction to all this could be a good indicator on how he feels about you...

 

I guess, his "ACTIONS" to me are certainly beyond friends. He would arrange romantic dinners, various types of things to do with me, personally helping me with work things whereas he can just send his assistants to help me with it, if I just express I like something, it will likely appear the next day, and many small things where he do more than any BF , Husband ever would.

 

 

No probably not.

 

I am assuming that the wife is waiting or assessing or maybe building evidence or something...but again...at minimum his life will blow up if you guys continue the path you are in, because it in fact degrades his marital relationship. All she may have noticed is his emotional distance, his lack of engagement with their relationship (and children if they have any)

 

You said you don't care about your SO as much so I am assuming the loss of that relationship to you is irrelevant?

 

Maybe when his life blows up you will be together, then again, he may hate you for being the cause. Who knows.

 

I am not sure if his wife is doing that or not, it might have affected their relationship somewhat (probably not in a great way) because he is very dedicated to her.

 

The loss of a relationship with my SO would be devastating and it is not irrelevant and I do care about him. Following the conversations here, It might be best to be open about this with him.

[LBlanc]

I guess, his "ACTIONS" to me are certainly beyond friends. He would arrange romantic dinners, various types of things to do with me, personally helping me with work things whereas he can just send his assistants to help me with it, if I just express I like something, it will likely appear the next day, and many small things where he do more than any BF , Husband ever would.

...

 

Crap...i think he has already made his intentions very clear...not by his words but by his actions...he's just waiting for you to take it out of bounds...that way he could say to his wife that you pursued him...

 

...your married friend had been setting up traps...baiting you with dinners and all that crap...and your falling for it...

[joannam]

If you spend all this time with him for so long and now you question it why???

 

I think if you question something you know it is wrong. The fact is he is married and if my husband was spending so much time with somebody else I would be really angry. I think it is disrespectful of you both to your partners. Just my humble opinion.

[JustAReformedGirl]

Crap...i think he has already made his intentions very clear...not by his words but by his actions...he's just waiting for you to take it out of bounds...that way he could say to his wife that you pursued him...

 

...your married friend had been setting up traps...baiting you with dinners and all that crap...and your falling for it...

 

I have to agree with the above; whether your married friend is intending to trap you is unclear. He may not be doing so in a vindictive manner. But, I think it's safe to say there are feelings there.

 

His wife is unhappy, though she doesn't make a big deal out of it. I imagine, even if you don't wind up going out of bounds, she will eventually reach her snapping point.

 

Now would be a good time to assess what you want in your life, what matters most, and to think about the impact this is having on both your boyfriend, and MM's wife.

 

You said your SO is important to you? You don't want to lose him?

 

You need to examine why you want to stay with your SO. Is it because of love, or is it fear of being alone? If it's the former, you need to start working on the relationship you have with him, and put some distance between you and your married friend.

 

Right now, you share and EA with him. If you cross the line into PA, there's no turning back. Do you want to be the reason his family life falls apart? The reason someone else hurts?

 

If need be, talk to your friend about all of this; be open and honest. Yes, you have feelings for him, but you don't want to cross a line, and you don't want him to wreck his family life. Tell him you need time away from one another, or make it limited contact.

 

Unless you're both willing to give up your current partners for one another, no good can come of this.

[carhill]

Is this acceptable?

 

Sure, if the behaviors are displayed in front of your respective spouses/partners and they approve.

[jennifersmith]

Crap...i think he has already made his intentions very clear...not by his words but by his actions...he's just waiting for you to take it out of bounds...that way he could say to his wife that you pursued him...

 

...your married friend had been setting up traps...baiting you with dinners and all that crap...and your falling for it...

 

I don't think he would ever want to be with me. In fact, I asked him a long time ago if he will ever divorce (not for me of course, but as a general question). And his answer is no.

 

 

If you spend all this time with him for so long and now you question it why???

 

I think if you question something you know it is wrong. The fact is he is married and if my husband was spending so much time with somebody else I would be really angry. I think it is disrespectful of you both to your partners. Just my humble opinion.

 

It is disrespectful. and to answer your question, I questioned it before too, but I only found this page yesterday, so you only see me questioning it now.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

JS

I am not sure if his wife is doing that or not, it might have affected their relationship somewhat (probably not in a great way) because he is very dedicated to her.

 

If she isn't noticing something then she will, and she is probably questioning herself since he is so "dedicated"

 

But so I again say...WHEN this blows up, he will hate YOU because you were no friend to participate in the destruction of his marriage. Think about it.

 

 

The loss of a relationship with my SO would be devastating and it is not irrelevant and I do care about him. Following the conversations here, It might be best to be open about this with him.

 

This does not sync with your previous statement where you said if your SO had any objections or asked you to limit your relationship you would choose the MM. So which is it?

[jennifersmith]

I have to agree with the above; whether your married friend is intending to trap you is unclear. He may not be doing so in a vindictive manner. But, I think it's safe to say there are feelings there.

 

His wife is unhappy, though she doesn't make a big deal out of it. I imagine, even if you don't wind up going out of bounds, she will eventually reach her snapping point.

 

Now would be a good time to assess what you want in your life, what matters most, and to think about the impact this is having on both your boyfriend, and MM's wife.

 

You said your SO is important to you? You don't want to lose him?

 

You need to examine why you want to stay with your SO. Is it because of love, or is it fear of being alone? If it's the former, you need to start working on the relationship you have with him, and put some distance between you and your married friend.

 

Right now, you share and EA with him. If you cross the line into PA, there's no turning back. Do you want to be the reason his family life falls apart? The reason someone else hurts?

 

If need be, talk to your friend about all of this; be open and honest. Yes, you have feelings for him, but you don't want to cross a line, and you don't want him to wreck his family life. Tell him you need time away from one another, or make it limited contact.

 

Unless you're both willing to give up your current partners for one another, no good can come of this.

 

You're right. I didn't think he 'set' up the trap intentionally, but I believe he did it because he did not think much about it. I know that nothing good is going to come out of it, and the limited contact is a good suggestion. I am going to be honest to say that I might not be able to do that though...

[jennifersmith]

JS

I am not sure if his wife is doing that or not, it might have affected their relationship somewhat (probably not in a great way) because he is very dedicated to her.

 

If she isn't noticing something then she will, and she is probably questioning herself since he is so "dedicated"

 

But so I again say...WHEN this blows up, he will hate YOU because you were no friend to participate in the destruction of his marriage. Think about it.

 

 

Yes, he might so i better not let that happen!

 

This does not sync with your previous statement where you said if your SO had any objections or asked you to limit your relationship you would choose the MM. So which is it?

 

I think what I have with the MM is that he is MORE than anyone I have met or I would meet. He has ALWAYS been here for me for good and bad, and I cannot be without him. So if I were to choose to have no contact with him than I won't be able to do so. That doesn't mean I don't care about my SO. ...

[It-is-what-it-is.]

IIWII:This does not sync with your previous statement where you said if your SO had any objections or asked you to limit your relationship you would choose the MM. So which is it?

 

JS:I think what I have with the MM is that he is MORE than anyone I have met or I would meet. He has ALWAYS been here for me for good and bad, and I cannot be without him. So if I were to choose to have no contact with him than I won't be able to do so. That doesn't mean I don't care about my SO. ...

 

Ok so let me ask you something differently.

 

Be your SO for a moment. Really sit in his shoes for a moment...

 

You love him, find him distant but not sure why, you are jealous of his friendship with the MW. You are not given an opportunity to deepen the relationship, resolve any issues or meet his needs because he is getting those needs met by her. You ask him to stop his relationship with the MW because it is harming your intimacy. And he refuses....you are clearly second to that relationship.

 

Would you stay? Would you expect anyone to advise you to stay? What do YOU get from that relationship?. All your emotional needs are secondary to the MW and you know that if she were to divorce, you would be dumped.

 

So JS...are you being fair to your SO?

 

What you are doing is maybe settling for an unsatisfactory relationship with your SO and investing in an emotional affair with an unavailable married family man.

 

You may want to read The other man/woman forum to see their pros and cons, I don't know if that's the lifestyle choices you are realizing you are making.

 

For the two people on the outside of this, I feel bad, because what you guys are doing is stealing from them.

[Jamie44]

Actually, the fact you wouldn't be taking your SO's feelings into consideration is a clear indication that you don't care. I think you came here only to justify yourself in your mind, I don't see why you're here if you believe you're doing nothing wrong and when told you are, you ignore it.

 

You go on "romantic dinners" with this man, you share intimate details about your relationship with him, you spend more time with him than your SO, if your SO didn't want you to continue this relationship with this man you say you'd leave him instead and you go to him first for everything. This isn't an appropriate relationship. Period. If your SO had a female friend he did the same thing with, I guarantee you'd be annoyed.

[LBlanc]

I don't think he would ever want to be with me. In fact, I asked him a long time ago if he will ever divorce (not for me of course, but as a general question). And his answer is no.

...

 

just because he doesn't want to divorce it doesn't necessarily mean he does not want to be with you...

 

...also when i said "trap" i didn't mean to imply he was some kind of predator...i was thinking something along the lines of fishing...

 

...

...I think what I have with the MM is that he is MORE than anyone I have met or I would meet. He has ALWAYS been here for me for good and bad, and I cannot be without him. So if I were to choose to have no contact with him than I won't be able to do so. That doesn't mean I don't care about my SO. ...

 

...never thought in a million years i'd loose 100 lbs either ...but yup...did it a month ago

 

maybe you should go on a married friend diet

[nescafe1982]

Jennifer, I revise my previous response: your relationship with this man is not merely "inappropriate," it is indeed an emotional affair.

 

If you care for him and yourself at all, you will dial it back immediately. No matter whether your interest in him is platonic or romantic, NO good will come from continuing things on course. The best case scenario is that you two carry on in this affair undetected for some time, and that your support actually props up his less-than-perfect marriage. But eventually, one or both of your partners will get hurt... and one or both of you will probably get hurt too.

 

TBH, your posts read to me like you're seeking justification for continuing to do what you're doing, despite that alarm bells are going off in your head that this thing is wrong. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't be looking for excuses to continue this behavior: I would be establishing some immediate distance from your married man, and in the coming weeks, I would be reappraising whether my own romantic relationship is worth saving. Because the more I hear about your affair, the more it sounds like you will lose on all fronts unless you check yourself.

[jlb1085]

You are in fact in an affair. An emotional affair, and those are as destructive to relationships as physical affairs. In your case, as in most affairs, there are two people involved who are negatively impacted, yet have not consented to the level of intimacy between you two. That defines affair.

....

I think you are a warm evening and a glass of wine away from a physical affair. So you need to decide if that's the person you want to be AND who you want to help him be and all the consequences.

 

That is exactly what happened with me and a MW. I've been following this thread because it does hit so close to home and I definitely agree with the comments/suggestions made. You know what the end of the road is ...whether you cross that line to a physical affair tomorrow or i a year from now. It's coming. And probably better to know the consequences so you can change your actions now (if that's the route you want to take).

 

My appropriateness threshold is this: if there are things about this relationship that you can not or would not share with your partner - from simple facts like when you have spent time together and what you do together, to intangibles like the depth of your feelings for the other person, etc. - then you've crossed the line.

 

In my case my MW used to share EVERYTHING we did/talked about with her husband and looking at it in retrospect, we *still* crossed the line, unbeknownst to her him. Well maybe not completely....he started to get jealous of us and underhandedly insult me, so she started telling him less, and we started hiding more......

[It-is-what-it-is.]

I use the term "consent" now because often these kinds of things start to happen and the spouse IS objecting, IS raising issues but they are being ignored.

 

So unless the spouse says, it's ok to have a girlfriend/boyfriend on the side, I don't mind. It's not OK.

[jennifersmith]

Ok so let me ask you something differently.

 

Be your SO for a moment. Really sit in his shoes for a moment...

 

You love him, find him distant but not sure why, you are jealous of his friendship with the MW. You are not given an opportunity to deepen the relationship, resolve any issues or meet his needs because he is getting those needs met by her. You ask him to stop his relationship with the MW because it is harming your intimacy. And he refuses....you are clearly second to that relationship.

 

Would you stay? Would you expect anyone to advise you to stay? What do YOU get from that relationship?. All your emotional needs are secondary to the MW and you know that if she were to divorce, you would be dumped.

 

So JS...are you being fair to your SO?

 

What you are doing is maybe settling for an unsatisfactory relationship with your SO and investing in an emotional affair with an unavailable married family man.

 

You may want to read The other man/woman forum to see their pros and cons, I don't know if that's the lifestyle choices you are realizing you are making.

 

For the two people on the outside of this, I feel bad, because what you guys are doing is stealing from them.

 

 

Yes, you are right, that's why I admit that I am selfish and did not tell him the truth. In any case, this should not go on any longer , so I am going to have a talk with him tonight. While people might misunderstand that I am nonchalant about his feelings, that's not the case. Otherwise, I won't have been pondering about these issues. The fact is, my SO has not been for me and has walked away when times were bad, and came back when things were good. I am guessing this is a separate issue, and merit separate discussion. MM has always been here for me.

 

I also know how it felt to be cheated on, where in my previous relationship my BF has cheated on me.

 

 

just because he doesn't want to divorce it doesn't necessarily mean he does not want to be with you...

 

...also when i said "trap" i didn't mean to imply he was some kind of predator...i was thinking something along the lines of fishing...

 

Yes I understand what you meant...I think he just enjoys what we have currently.

 

...never thought in a million years i'd loose 100 lbs either ...but yup...did it a month ago

 

maybe you should go on a married friend diet

 

Congrats on that!! I don't really need to lose any weight though, I used to be a part time fitness class teacher.

 

Jennifer, I revise my previous response: your relationship with this man is not merely "inappropriate," it is indeed an emotional affair.

 

If you care for him and yourself at all, you will dial it back immediately. No matter whether your interest in him is platonic or romantic, NO good will come from continuing things on course. The best case scenario is that you two carry on in this affair undetected for some time, and that your support actually props up his less-than-perfect marriage. But eventually, one or both of your partners will get hurt... andand one or both of you will probably get hurt too.

 

TBH, your posts read to me like you're seeking justification for continuing to do what you're doing, despite that alarm bells are going off in your head that this thing is wrong. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't be looking for excuses to continue this behavior: I would be establishing some immediate distance from your married man, and in the coming weeks, I would be reappraising whether my own romantic relationship is worth saving. Because the more I hear about your affair, the more it sounds like you will lose on all fronts unless you check yourself.

 

I know, I am, that's why it's good that people are talking some sense into me!

[JustAReformedGirl]

You're right. I didn't think he 'set' up the trap intentionally, but I believe he did it because he did not think much about it. I know that nothing good is going to come out of it, and the limited contact is a good suggestion. I am going to be honest to say that I might not be able to do that though...

 

 

You're not a bad person. I maintain that. You're definitely caught up in an emotional whirlwind though, which I am no stranger to, myself.

 

I know it's difficult, but really try to go LC, not just for the sake of your respective relationships to other people, but so maybe you can clear your head, and take time to think about what it is you want and need in your life.

 

You say your married friend's wife isn't exactly happy...but what of your SO? Sorry if you did mention his feelings and/or reactions. Has he shown any discomfort with how much time you and MM spend together?

 

I'd definitely say this is turning into an EA. There's some debate as to whether EA's or PA's are worse. I think it depends on the situation. An EA isn't more of a betrayal, IMHO, but it does tend to put the legit relationships on tenuous grounds.

 

hard as it is, I cannot stress this enough-try to go LC for a bit. You owe it yourself, as much as anyone else. You don't want to find yourself in a situation you'll regret later. It may feel good, at the onset...but eventually, the pain, the confusion...they will show up.

[jennifersmith]

Taking all of the suggestions, the first thing I did is to talk to my SO, finally I got a chance to do so yesterday. I found a chance to ask him how do you feel that I am so close to X (X refer to the MM). He responded by asking why would I suddenly ask about that. I told him that I think there are a lot of things I don't feel I can share with him and if I have problems I would run to X first... And it goes on. He said he respects X (X has actually helped him out of some difficult circumstances before, so my SO really appreciates and respect him), and he understand why women (in general, including me) would fall head over heel for him (because he's probably what all women want in a man). And I asked him, so he thinks it is OK that I feel so fondly about someone that is not my BF, and he said, no matter what, I still go home to him and that's what is most important. I said, perhaps we should work on communicating better and perhaps working out some issues we have, because it seems like we're in a stale relationship and it's not really going anywhere. (Also we are pretty much in a LD relationship, as his job needs to be away from his "home" base in alternate months, and I travel a lot as well). He then said he's really tired from this discussion, and wish I don't think too much about it.

what are your thoughts ?

[Realist3]

It sounds like you both are just existing together for the sake of existing together.

 

You said the relationship is stale. What is the point of staying with the BF if he doesn't really give a damn?

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Taking all of the suggestions, the first thing I did is to talk to my SO, finally I got a chance to do so yesterday. I found a chance to ask him how do you feel that I am so close to X (X refer to the MM). He responded by asking why would I suddenly ask about that. I told him that I think there are a lot of things I don't feel I can share with him and if I have problems I would run to X first... And it goes on. He said he respects X (X has actually helped him out of some difficult circumstances before, so my SO really appreciates and respect him), and he understand why women (in general, including me) would fall head over heel for him (because he's probably what all women want in a man). And I asked him, so he thinks it is OK that I feel so fondly about someone that is not my BF, and he said, no matter what, I still go home to him and that's what is most important. I said, perhaps we should work on communicating better and perhaps working out some issues we have, because it seems like we're in a stale relationship and it's not really going anywhere. (Also we are pretty much in a LD relationship, as his job needs to be away from his "home" base in alternate months, and I travel a lot as well). He then said he's really tired from this discussion, and wish I don't think too much about it.

what are your thoughts ?

 

Well...you appeared to tell him about 3/4 of the truth. So he made comments based on that.* But

 

You did get a strange response. So that means there is some piece of information YOU don't have. I would be curious about that.

 

First, huge kudos for telling him, wow nice job.

 

Second, you didn't really tell him the significance did you? I mean, that you guys have romantic dinners and chats and such. And that your feelings are becoming more than fond. And that you might NOT always come home. Be honest, if the SO doesn't step it up and invest you guys become roommates?

 

My two cents, for what it's worth.