risk aversion

[fortyninethousand322]

How many men on here do you think are single in part (or entirely) because they are reluctant to take risks? This could mean reluctant to flirt, reluctant to ask out a girl, or reluctant to make moves, whatever.

 

I think it's a huge problem for me. But it's something that developed over time, not something that's always been there. I used to take risks all the time. Ask girls for their number, ask them out on dates, took the initiative to try to hold a girl's hand once. Being rebuffed every single time has taken its toll.

 

I don't think I'd have the guts to do any of that today. Taking a risk has become associated with failure and embarrassment. So I guess that question is, how does one get back that feeling of fearlessness and risk tolerance? I think it would take a woman taking an interest in me and favorably responding to my overtures. But sometimes I feel like that's putting the cart before the horse.

 

Thoughts?

[Philosoraptor]

I think too many people complaining here about the opposite sex are too worried about rejection. It's just a stranger telling you they don't like you. Why should that have any impact on your personal self worth?

 

Getting past the fear of rejection is realizing you really aren't losing anything by a stranger not liking you. The only thing you can do is gain from the situation, as you're still alone if rejected so you're not taking a step back or anything.

[sabre80]

It is definitely cyclical. You get rejected, you anticipate rejection a bit the next approach. If you approach anticipating rejection often women will sense this and reject you. You have to project without being arrogant. If you would not date yourself no one would want to.

[New User]

Have you tried drinking heavily?

 

In all seriousness, your age (I don't know it) factors heavily into this. I'm guessing that you're middle aged and maybe questioning all the actions that have brought you to this point in life (whatever this point is for you). It sounds like a basic confidence problem. If that's the case, in my experience maintaining a physically vigorous lifestyle keeps confidence relatively high. As does maintaining an active social life- finding a social outlet that you enjoy and getting involved. Meetup has all kinds of groups for various interests and just being around new people that share your interests has a great positive effect on self-confidence.

[fortyninethousand322]

Have you tried drinking heavily?

 

In all seriousness, your age (I don't know it) factors heavily into this. I'm guessing that you're middle aged and maybe questioning all the actions that have brought you to this point in life (whatever this point is for you). It sounds like a basic confidence problem. If that's the case, in my experience maintaining a physically vigorous lifestyle keeps confidence relatively high. As does maintaining an active social life- finding a social outlet that you enjoy and getting involved. Meetup has all kinds of groups for various interests and just being around new people that share your interests has a great positive effect on self-confidence.

 

I'm a complete teetotaler. I've never drank, done drugs or smoked. At all, not even a sip.

 

And I'm 25. Though to be honest, I do look like I'm about 40 years old. I've never met anyone who guess my age as under 35 so.

 

I don't think it's a confidence issue because I used to be confident. I used to have no problem taking risks. It's just that, whenever I took those risks they never turned out well. So you get gun shy. This is probably why I prefer online dating sites. The rejection is a lot easier to take since the investment is relatively low...

[StanMusial]

How many men on here do you think are single in part (or entirely) because they are reluctant to take risks? This could mean reluctant to flirt, reluctant to ask out a girl, or reluctant to make moves, whatever.

 

I think it's a huge problem for me. But it's something that developed over time, not something that's always been there. I used to take risks all the time. Ask girls for their number, ask them out on dates, took the initiative to try to hold a girl's hand once. Being rebuffed every single time has taken its toll.

 

I don't think I'd have the guts to do any of that today. Taking a risk has become associated with failure and embarrassment. So I guess that question is, how does one get back that feeling of fearlessness and risk tolerance? I think it would take a woman taking an interest in me and favorably responding to my overtures. But sometimes I feel like that's putting the cart before the horse.

 

Thoughts?

 

Where is the risk, if you are rejected every time? A risk implies an uncertain outcome. Also, it seems like at some point you would just not care. Like build up a tolerance or something.

[fortyninethousand322]

Where is the risk, if you are rejected every time? A risk implies an uncertain outcome. Also, it seems like at some point you would just not care. Like build up a tolerance or something.

 

Because it's usually not just a rejection, it's a complete revulsion. Not just when asking someone out, but also on a date when I try to "make a move" (like to hold a girl's hand or something like that).

 

It's also just in general. Women are not very comfortable around me. Even in social non-romantic settings.

[StanMusial]

Because it's usually not just a rejection, it's a complete revulsion. Not just when asking someone out, but also on a date when I try to "make a move" (like to hold a girl's hand or something like that).

 

It's also just in general. Women are not very comfortable around me. Even in social non-romantic settings.

 

Ouch.

 

Well, it sounds like you at least had a date at some point. There's that.

[New User]

I'm a complete teetotaler. I've never drank, done drugs or smoked. At all, not even a sip.

 

And I'm 25. Though to be honest, I do look like I'm about 40 years old. I've never met anyone who guess my age as under 35 so.

 

I don't think it's a confidence issue because I used to be confident. I used to have no problem taking risks. It's just that, whenever I took those risks they never turned out well. So you get gun shy. This is probably why I prefer online dating sites. The rejection is a lot easier to take since the investment is relatively low...

 

 

The drinking comment was a joke- mostly anyways.

 

Take a look at the bolded part- maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sounds like you're stating that rejection rattled your confidence which is kind of what I was getting at.

 

As far as getting your willingness to take risks back.... I still stand by my belief that leading a physically vigorous life increases confidence in all areas of life. Crossfit, MMA, biking, swimming, running (especially social trail runs) whatever you find that you enjoy. If you're already active then I'd suggest going to some meetup events and just being social.

 

I've also known a guy who was painfully shy with women. He worked through that by making an effort to simply say hello and smile at any female he found attractive..... and keep walking. You don't have to worry about getting rejected if you're not really trying to accomplish anything and he said that just getting a smile back and a hello from good looking gal pretty much set a positive tone for him for the next couple of days. During college he went from being painfully shy to something of a lady's man.

 

I wish you well.

[pcplod]

How many men on here do you think are single in part (or entirely) because they are reluctant to take risks? This could mean reluctant to flirt, reluctant to ask out a girl, or reluctant to make moves, whatever.

 

I think it's a huge problem for me. But it's something that developed over time, not something that's always been there. I used to take risks all the time. Ask girls for their number, ask them out on dates, took the initiative to try to hold a girl's hand once. Being rebuffed every single time has taken its toll.

 

I don't think I'd have the guts to do any of that today. Taking a risk has become associated with failure and embarrassment. So I guess that question is, how does one get back that feeling of fearlessness and risk tolerance? I think it would take a woman taking an interest in me and favorably responding to my overtures. But sometimes I feel like that's putting the cart before the horse.

 

Thoughts?

 

I can empathise but I think it is more from the point of view of not wanting to possibly get involved in an impending train-wreck that I couldn't step away from before it actually happened. The potential risk just isn't worth it to me. I mean, I know there are plenty of people who blissfully and ignorantly make a go of it, but for every one of them there is another who can't really believe what hit them. And being the ever-optimist I'll think, "Boy, knowing my typical luck".

[Els]

I'm generally very cautious, perhaps even paranoid by some peoples' standards, about risk. You only need to read my posts about pregnancy and contraception to agree with that. My bf is extremely risk averse and still asked me out.

 

But as for your problem... I'm not seeing exactly what you're 'risking' here. The only negative effects of a rejection, are those that you allow to happen. I could understand if there were a REAL risk of negative impact (for instance, asking out a colleague in a job that you really want to keep so you can't risk mucking things up), but in most cases they don't exist.

 

You know, whenever I applied for jobs or schools, I usually sent out a whole barrage of applications. Obviously some were going to be rejected. But I don't lose anything from the rejection, except a little time. On the other hand, there is potentially much to gain. I'm not necessarily advocating that you go the shotgun/cold approach style with regards to asking girls out, but the point is, you don't really stand to lose anything from a rejection.

 

I'm sorry, but I think you have your perception of risk the other way round.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Elswyth

[fortyninethousand322]

I'm generally very cautious, perhaps even paranoid by some peoples' standards, about risk. You only need to read my posts about pregnancy and contraception to agree with that. My bf is extremely risk averse and still asked me out.

 

But as for your problem... I'm not seeing exactly what you're 'risking' here. The only negative effects of a rejection, are those that you allow to happen. I could understand if there were a REAL risk of negative impact (for instance, asking out a colleague in a job that you really want to keep so you can't risk mucking things up), but in most cases they don't exist.

 

You know, whenever I applied for jobs or schools, I usually sent out a whole barrage of applications. Obviously some were going to be rejected. But I don't lose anything from the rejection, except a little time. On the other hand, there is potentially much to gain. I'm not necessarily advocating that you go the shotgun/cold approach style with regards to asking girls out, but the point is, you don't really stand to lose anything from a rejection.

 

I'm sorry, but I think you have your perception of risk the other way round.

 

Anytime you ask someone out or make your feelings known, there's a risk. A risk that they'll say no a risk that they'll react extremely negatively, etc. Sometimes that risk is small, sometimes that risk is high.

 

Perhaps risk aversion was a poor way of stating it, but I've long ago stopped being carefree when it comes to my interactions with women. I don't like taking the chance that things won't work out.

 

Every single time I've expressed interest in someone (and we're not talking about good friends) or made a move (like trying to hold hands) things were not just met with rejection (which would be fine) but much more than that. Like it wasn't "ok" for me to be interested in them, even if the feelings weren't returned. You know what I'm saying?

 

The consequences I think has been that I've been totally reluctant to talk to women (unless they are in my social group already) and definitely reluctant to try to flirt or anything along those lines. Because it's not ok for me to do those things, based on the responses I've received in my life.

[Ryan R.]

I wouldn't consider myself risk averse. During college, I created and attempted to create two business enterprises and both of them failed. It paid off though because I was able to get a job at a big financial corporation here in Manhattan right after college, making a good wage.

 

The past two weeks, I approached well over 40 women in daytime, party, and bar scenarios and encountered some form of implicit/explicit rejection in all of them.

 

So that's not my problem. I wish it was, because it seems like it would be so easy to get over.

[Els]

Anytime you ask someone out or make your feelings known, there's a risk. A risk that they'll say no a risk that they'll react extremely negatively, etc. Sometimes that risk is small, sometimes that risk is high.

 

Perhaps risk aversion was a poor way of stating it, but I've long ago stopped being carefree when it comes to my interactions with women. I don't like taking the chance that things won't work out.

 

Every single time I've expressed interest in someone (and we're not talking about good friends) or made a move (like trying to hold hands) things were not just met with rejection (which would be fine) but much more than that. Like it wasn't "ok" for me to be interested in them, even if the feelings weren't returned. You know what I'm saying?

 

The consequences I think has been that I've been totally reluctant to talk to women (unless they are in my social group already) and definitely reluctant to try to flirt or anything along those lines. Because it's not ok for me to do those things, based on the responses I've received in my life.

 

Yes, there is a risk they'll say no.

 

But what REAL negative effect does that have? You learn how to take rejection in your stride with experience and practice, and you gain more chances at what you want. Win-win.

[fortyninethousand322]

Yes, there is a risk they'll say no.

 

But what REAL negative effect does that have? You learn how to take rejection in your stride with experience and practice, and you gain more chances at what you want. Win-win.

 

I don't like the feeling when I get particular kinds of rejections. Like the kinds that I listed. I'd prefer not to go through that.

 

Rejection is fine. As long as it's not particularly painful.

[MrRightNow]

I think you have to take risks to be genuinely happy and make the most out of life. This is true not only for dating, but for other aspects of your life, like your career for example. You might end kicking yourself years from now if you don't make a consistent effort to meet someone while you're still young.

 

Nobody likes getting rejected, but it's part of the game. The only time fear of rejection is understandable is when you're dealing with someone who you've known for a while and for whom you have strong feelings. Getting rejected by random chicks shouldn't phase you one bit. In most cases, you'll never see that person again anyway.

 

Your level of confidence shouldn't be based on how successful you are with women. There's a lot more to life than dating and relationships.

[skydiveaddict]

is, how does one get back that feeling of fearlessness and risk tolerance?

 

Thoughts?

 

I was just like you. So I changed everything I was about. I was afraid of college. So I went. I was afraid of heights, so I started jumping out of airplanes. I was afraid of violence so I joined the army. I was afraid of girls, so I began asking them out.

Anything I was afraid of, that's what I did. My life changed entirely.

 

Mark Twain said "Do the thing you fear the most, and the death of fear is certain." And he was right. I did it, so can you.

[Socks At Play]

You have a clear case of over thinking things. This puts a lot of people into a state of inaction in a variety of situations and for you it seems to be girls. Your state of constantly over analyzing things probably stems from an inflated fear of rejection.

 

I've experienced the same problem when it comes to women. When approaching, I'm sometimes pleasantly surprised if I don't think and just go for it. When I'm rejected, I find I actually don't feel too bad about it because at least I tried and I don't have to add another regret to my long list of regrets. There are too many faces of cute strangers burned into my brain that gave me clear signals to go for it but I chickened out and put up my shell instead.

 

Now if it's somebody I want to kiss and she recoils when I go in for one... Yeah, there's no denying that hurts deeply. At the very least though it's a good way to get a definitive answer when her actions and words towards me are sending mixed messages. (It took me a little while, but I've learned to pay most attention to actions to save me some frustration.)

 

The reactions of women to me in the past (or how I've reacted to them) are not going to predict how future women are going to react to me. I wasted a decade of my life assuming every answer from a woman was a no and that totally sucked. Do not do that.

[PJKino]

Every rejection i get to me is just more proof that women arent attracted to me..If i had just one women into me i knew it would get the ball rolling because id realize there are women out there who are atttracted to me and rejection wouldnt hurt me as much as it does..

[PJKino]

You've never had ANY girl into you?

 

Not that im aware of

[soccerrprp]

The one truism in life is that nothing is gained without risk. Yes rejection hurts, but loneliness hurts a damn sight more.

 

Amen to that! I've taken some serious risk(s) in the past 6-months in the realm of relationships and it is paying off thus far, but I certainly would not recommend what I am doing now to others. Part of taking risks is knowing thyself and what or how much pain one is willing and capable of sustaining.

[DannyMason]

I think there's a certain mindset that people get locked into, which is that to met women they have to go out and look for women. Whilst that is one method, and one some people have a great deal of success with, it is by no means the only one.

 

The best way, the way that worked for me, is to just go out and meet people. What are your hobbies and interests? Join a club. Do a course in something. Build a social circle, build a new group of friends. Meet their friends. The more you interact with people, the more you build your social skills, you build your confidence and the easier it is to do.

 

When I split from my second fiancé, I spent two months at home revelling in my singleness, then I spend two months climbing the walls. Then I went back to working behind a bar in addition to my full time job. It was hard work and I was knackered half the time, but it enabled me a few nights out whilst earning more money. I got to know the regulars, I got to make new friends, and it was on a night out with my new friends that I met my wife. Granted, bar work is not for everyone, but it was something I was good at, and when I first started it was something that brought me out of my shell and made me into the person I am today.

 

The one truism in life is that nothing is gained without risk. Yes rejection hurts, but loneliness hurts a damn sight more.

 

Why are you acting like those are mutually exclusive? If you're rejected, it's not like you gain something for it; you go right back to being lonely, just with some added hurt this time.

[Philosoraptor]

Why are you acting like those are mutually exclusive? If you're rejected, it's not like you gain something for it; you go right back to being lonely, just with some added hurt this time.

You gain knowledge, experience, and the ability to knock one more person off your potential list.

[fortyninethousand322]

I think there's a certain mindset that people get locked into, which is that to met women they have to go out and look for women. Whilst that is one method, and one some people have a great deal of success with, it is by no means the only one.

 

The best way, the way that worked for me, is to just go out and meet people. What are your hobbies and interests? Join a club. Do a course in something. Build a social circle, build a new group of friends. Meet their friends. The more you interact with people, the more you build your social skills, you build your confidence and the easier it is to do.

 

When I split from my second fiancé, I spent two months at home revelling in my singleness, then I spend two months climbing the walls. Then I went back to working behind a bar in addition to my full time job. It was hard work and I was knackered half the time, but it enabled me a few nights out whilst earning more money. I got to know the regulars, I got to make new friends, and it was on a night out with my new friends that I met my wife. Granted, bar work is not for everyone, but it was something I was good at, and when I first started it was something that brought me out of my shell and made me into the person I am today.

 

The one truism in life is that nothing is gained without risk. Yes rejection hurts, but loneliness hurts a damn sight more.

 

The issue is that I'm afraid to let a woman know that I'm interested, that I like her. Like the thought of a woman knowing that I like her brings severe anxiety to me. Doesn't matter how I met the woman, the internet, chess club, sports, whatever.

 

I wasn't always this way. For a long time I was pretty fearless in just going out there and not hiding how I feel. But, every single time a woman found out I was interested she acted repulsed.

 

One lone exception was the girl from college. She hung out with me all the time even though she knew I liked her. She just made sure to keep me at arm's length (no kissing, no hugging, no hand-holding, etc.). Head games I suppose, but I don't know.

 

So, I've learned to be scared. And I don't know how to unlearn that...

[fortyninethousand322]

Not in high school? College? Post-college? Nothing?

 

Have you ever had sex? Kissed a girl?

 

I can't speak for PjKino but as for myself, never had sex, never kissed a girl.

 

I tried holding hands once, but the girl immediately took her hand back. It wasn't even like it was the first date or anything...