Moose Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by Monday He'll just make fun of me, Moose Monday, Humor me.....? Link to post Share on other sites
SadAndLonely Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 It's no wonder that your username is what it is. Moose, you DID read the rest of what I wrote, yes? He's going to continue to look at porn. If she can't get over it, she needs to leave him. I'm a woman and I have no problems with porn, but her harping on him won't make things better. Actually, I'm not SadAndLonely anymore, except in name only. My own situation is going pretty darn well, and has been for a little while now. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Sadandlonley, I read your post. Just because he's going to continue to look at porn, and she's not going to get over it, doesn't constitute leaving the marriage. Porn isn't the issue to begin with. It's about making promises and then breaking them, which to me is a much bigger issue, but still not one to leave a marriage about. Your solution, which is a common one by the way, is what leads to high divorce rates, and neglected children. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FolderWife Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by Moose Monday, Humor me.....? What's there to discuss at this point? Link to post Share on other sites
Author FolderWife Posted November 1, 2004 Author Share Posted November 1, 2004 I wanted to talk about this last night. He's now forced me to shut my feelings out, and now it's going to be hard to get them back again to discuss them. Besides, considering how he's been our entire marriage, if he DID open up and actually talk to me, I'd be so dumbfounded that I'd only get out one question, and then I'd be so...dumbfounded that I wouldn't have anything more to say. Link to post Share on other sites
Wolvesbaned Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Aww hun, I'm sorry this is happening. You've let him get the best of you again. I have no idea why people have their shorts up in a bunch with you ... It must be hard to be fighting with so many people at the same time. How do you keep up the strength? But I agree with one thing, it's not about porn. If you're doing so much for him and he doesn't even try for you... it's only human to be frustrated. You're no zen master & why the hell should you act like one? I don't understand it... so basically he's supposed to get away with everything while you're supposed to meditate in the corner? And all this talk about not treating someone like a child --- aren't real men suppose to stand up for themselves? Why isn't anyone on his case for acting like a 12 year old? Why does this man feel "bullied" into a corner? I'll tell you why --- because he wants his dinner hot, his clothes clean & a warm body that'll give it to him. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. So instead of fessing up & telling his outrightly distraught wife he wants it all, he lies and ignores her unhappiness. But there's a fatal flaw, if she's unhappy, he is too! No matter what he gets away with. Monday's told him the the reason for all her anger. He hasn't. He lied. She hasn't. She apparently is the one sitting here & thinking about ways to work this out. What the hell is he doing? So why is she the bad one? Monday, it's impossible to talk to a child --no matter what angle you're trying. Please don't let him continue to get the best of you. You're better than that and you know it. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by Monday I wanted to talk about this last night. He's now forced me to shut my feelings out, and now it's going to be hard to get them back again to discuss them. Besides, considering how he's been our entire marriage, if he DID open up and actually talk to me, I'd be so dumbfounded that I'd only get out one question, and then I'd be so...dumbfounded that I wouldn't have anything more to say. Monday, then it's obvious to me what you two need to do. Break the wall you two built between you and get the communication flowing! Your marriage is doomed without communication. If you two can't elaborate your feelings one to another, then you'll be stuck in this cycle forever. I know that you feel like you've done most of the work, but if you only stick to one goal, make it to break this barrier and establish a connection with him. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Spock Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 The fact that you continue to do the same thing, over and over again, expecting different results really makes me think this is some kind of cycle you enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites
Wolvesbaned Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Originally posted by Mr Spock The fact that you continue to do the same thing, over and over again, expecting different results really makes me think this is some kind of cycle you enjoy. This reminds me of a quote I read during my hell days. I don't remember it exactly, but I most likely read it here: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting to get a different result. It is so easy to literally go crazy with something like this. Link to post Share on other sites
SadAndLonely Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Yup, I have to agree with the last two posters. Moose, I wasn't aware that Monday had children. If I knew she did, I would have advised her differently. Monday, since you have children, stay in it and make it work. This is all tongue in cheek, of course. I was trying to make a point that she should work on getting over it or find out why she's so insecure or upset about it. My suggestion about her leaving was to prod her into realizing that it's really not as big of a deal as it's made out to be, especially when you consider the TRULY bad things that can happen in a marriage. But Moose, thank you for making an assumption about me and slamming my username anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
mymojo Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by Moose Sadandlonley, I read your post. Just because he's going to continue to look at porn, and she's not going to get over it, doesn't constitute leaving the marriage. Porn isn't the issue to begin with. It's about making promises and then breaking them, which to me is a much bigger issue, but still not one to leave a marriage about. Your solution, which is a common one by the way, is what leads to high divorce rates, and neglected children. I have no desire to have sex with my partner when he gets erections from viewing porn and would prefer that he satisfy his desires where he got em, How can I tactfully convey the idea that the erection obtained from staring at the monitor should also be satisfied there ? He has the right to view whatever he'd like without comment or interfence from me.. but when my body/emotions are drawn into it, then I have a right or two as well and I'd like to elect the right to withdraw on such occasions. Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by Monday What!? What did I say to make you think that I said that? After that comment plus the ones about how I'm setting him up, I'm wondering if you have me confused with someone else Nope.. What I am trying to point out here is that you have communication problems all around. Your problem isn't just with the porn. It's with him and the way he treats you. However, it seems like you can be a little harsh on him as well. Like I said, you two definetly need marriage counseling. It takes two to work out a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Ladyjane14 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I'm no defender of porn. I find it to be quite repugnant and a drain on society. It's a beast that twists up the more fragile minds among us, sometimes turning them into beasts as well. Witness rapists, pedophiles, and other sexual predators who feed off of this filth. But in the microcosm of our own marriages, I think that we have to deal first with the violation of trust. In your situation, he has violated your trust by promising one thing and then doing another. But you have violated his trust as well. Not only by snooping, but by "setting him up" in a situation in which you could bust him for lying. I had to decide in my own marriage whether I could tolerate the porn, and I can. It's better than dictating to my husband what his behavior ought to be. Afterall, he's not among the above "fragile-minded", at least not on most days! In my situation, I absolutely had to break out of the mold of the authority figure in his life. Even though I felt I had been unfairly cast in it, that was his perception. And perception becomes the truth in that when one person believes the situation is this or thus, that's the place from which you must deal with him. By reading through some of your previous posts, I can see that you two have made progress. It would be a shame to lose that now, that is, if you still want to stay with him. I think Moose and JMargel are giving you the man's point of view here. Right or wrong, that may be how your husband is viewing it too. Possibly they could help you understand his thinking in this. Have you considered doing some 'role playing' in PM with one of them? Let them maybe 'play' your husband and see how a discussion would progress? Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites
jade_nc Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 first, i am so very sorry that he's hurt you this way again and that he isn't talking to you about it. it sounds like what's upsetting you most is that he's hiding things from you again and then lying about it....is that right?? second, you do not have to accept porn or anything else in your intimate relationship because other people think that it's OK. the two of you had an agreement, he broke it. last, please know that this is not in any way shape or form your fault. you have no control over the choices that he makes. you cannot make him be forthcoming with you about things, and you can't stop him from lying to you. even if you had handled the situation differently it was still HIS choice in how he responded. people lie because they are afraid. it is his own insecurities that propel him, not yours. to everyone else who has been saying that porn isn't a big deal, that monday made him lie because she was manipulating, etc - you are missing the point!! porn is NOT a normal acceptable behavior in every relationship. it is clear that in THEIR relationship this is unacceptable! her partner broke a promise to her, tried to hide it, and then lied to her about it. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by jade_nc porn is NOT a normal acceptable behavior in every relationship. it is clear that in THEIR relationship this is unacceptable! her partner broke a promise to her, tried to hide it, and then lied to her about it. Ok, I agree that lying is the issue. Point of order, you can tell someone "don't lie" all day and it won't do anything. People lie for a reason (unless they have an issue with compulsive lying, which is a different and requires a different treatment mode). Address that issue, the lying will not continue. Keep pounding your head against a brick wall, it will continue and most likely escalate. Choice: keep doing the same sick dance and keep getting upset about it; change. Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Monday.. it basically comes down to this. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. To fix this issue you two either need to seek marriage counseling for the both of you or get a divorce. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 To fix this issue you two either need to seek marriage counseling for the both of you or get a divorce Nice going jmargel. I don't agree. You only gave her two options, not a good idea. Monday can read up on co-dependancy, or addictions, find a support group, seek counceling for herself.....to me divorce is way out of the picture. Unless she catches him screwing another woman, or she strays into infidelity, divorce should be absent from our vocabulary. Link to post Share on other sites
PatientOne Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Moose, your advice to her about the Discussion Ball was thought provoking and reasonable. Unfortunately, it won't work for this couple. It seems at this point that any meaningful communication between them is unlikely. Therefore, I have to agree with jmargel, if they don't get into counseling, they'll drive each other even more crazy than they have so far. This will only get worse. They may begin to hate each other. And at some point, divorce will be the welcome option. You're completely right, divorce should be absent from our vocabularies. Sadly, it is a necessary tool in our society. Some folks are just not meant to be together. Link to post Share on other sites
jmargel Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by Moose Nice going jmargel. I don't agree. You only gave her two options, not a good idea. Monday can read up on co-dependancy, or addictions, find a support group, seek counceling for herself.....to me divorce is way out of the picture. Unless she catches him screwing another woman, or she strays into infidelity, divorce should be absent from our vocabulary. I have given her these options because they can't work it out within' themselves. Even if she did all that reading and did all she could, he would still be neglecting her in ways. He needs to find out himself what he is doing. Since he has not taken the initative to do this, only counseling will show him. From what she is saying, he's not the type to go about looking for why the relationship is suffering (ie. reading books, going to these types of forums, etc..). It takes two to solve a relationship problem. I don't advocate divorce at all, but sometimes it needs to be thrown out there to show how serious the problem is. If nothing is done, then divorce will eventually happen, unless they both want to live in unhappy, unhealthy lives. Link to post Share on other sites
dizi Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 "If he wants porn, he needs to say, "I want porn. I'm meeting your needs, and I'm not mistreating you, so I don't see a problem with me having it." So, if he were to say this, it would make it ok?? You KNOW he wants porn, you said yourself that he's meeting your needs sexually,("Even though past experience has shown me that my husband and porn equals no sex and no love for me." -- It has happened, but not at the moment, right?) and I take it he isn't mistreating you (except the lies). He doesn't see a problem with having it, or he would never have it. "He doesn't do that though. He says, "I won't look at it any more." and then does it behind my back." So, if he can say the above, he wouldn't have to do it behind your back? Is that what it would take for you to let it go? Is it really necessary for him to say it when you already know it? You would deal with it? If the answer is no, him saying those words won't make a bit of difference. You will always be resentful and insecure. "My insecurity is not the problem here." (Him watching another woman have sex DOESN'T make you feel insecure? That wasn't the impression I got from you!) I completely understand, though. I've been prego three years in a row. Each year I get skinny again, luckily (hope this year!), but I had severe problems with my self esteem during pregnancy. I never got over-weight, just baby really. (Then there's the few weeks afterward that I can't have sex or fit in my regular clothes yet!) I still am insecure a bit this time, but it isn't so bad. My fiance had a thing for porn too, and it killed me that he would stay up all night online and not come to bed with me when I really needed to feel secure, loved and adored, you know? I was crushed a lot. I understand why people are completely against it. I really do. However, I did the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em route, and like someone said earlier in the thread, the novelty wore off a bit for him. Now he doesn't hide it from me and it isn't all consuming, either. We live with his parents right now (going through financial difficulties) and can't sleep together because we aren't married yet (understandable, but weird and lonely! ), but we look at porn online and IM each other, showing what we like and what we'd do to each other. It's pretty fun, actually. Then he sneaks down to my room I'm not jealous or insecure anymore because he's not doing it without me. He isn't leaving me alone to watch it by himself. We also have the "no masturbation" rule, Pocky! I know a lot of people don't agree with it...I'm guilty...but really, I can live with or without it as long as I'm involved. At least we have a great sex life and we're happy for the most part! This may not be for you, but I'm telling you about it to make a point~ It doesn't sound like he can say the above and then get away with looking at porn! You need to feel number one in his life, and you should! "I wasn't doing what he wanted. So now, sex consists of me going down on him until he's ready for me to get on top. Then, he finshes whether I finish or not. Oh well, at least now I'm satisfied." Tell him that's not enough for you! Have you ever said anything of the sort? Get vocal. That's not acceptable. "And he said I'm all he needs. Why look at porn, when he has his own set of boobs. Then I find where he looked at a Playboy. His excuse? " I wanted to see if they looked as good as yours... " Puhlease. Then, I ask if he still needs to look at it...is there anything else. "NOPE!" he says, "YOU'RE ALL I NEED." This sucks. "Give him an ultimatum. He is addicted to porn, clearly. You want a man that is not. There *are* men out there that are not! You deserve to be treated better. He's betrayed you and he is a liar. He is a porn addict. He's getting the best of you. Tell him you're leavinge his sorry a$$, that he can try to sleep with his nasty porn tapes. Tell him his porn tapes can clean up after him, cook him supper, do his laundry, etc." If you're going to go that route, this is the best way to go! LMAO! I'm not saying you should. Definitely get counseling first. I'm pretty sure you love him. You can ask him to go too, by saying, " I have a real problem with porn. I'd like to be able to understand your fascination with it better, and my intolerance of it. I'd really like to get help before we lose our marriage. I found a (counselor, group) and I want us both to go."(non accusing) Then if he fusses say, "If I can't get you to agree that our marriage is worth it, I have no other choice but to leave you. " Then say all that stuff up there if he belittles you! I'm sorry my post is HUGE! I just know how frustrated you are. Thought I'd give it a shot...Hope I haven't managed to offend you! (or put you to sleep!~sheesh!) Link to post Share on other sites
Author FolderWife Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Ya know what the REALLY difficult thing is? We had just got finished playing a board game together. We've been doing so much cuddling and bonding. I was really feeling close to him. Then out of nowhere, I find a big NAKED lie right in front of me. It really hurts. I was feeling that there were no secrets, no lies, we were happy and in love, and then this elephant falls on me My husband thinks he's a modeling agent or something. I get hit on every single day. I get stared at. I get asked out. I get flirted with. But then I go home, and have this man who's too honest. "You need to quit eating so much junk food," Or, "We need to stop eating out," or, "We need to start excersising." All his ways of telling me that my body isn't perfect. I feel like he doesn't want to screw with my nasty lumpy body, but since it's the only one he's allowed to screw, he settles. Funny thing is, he ADORES me when he's not looking at porn. He'd been nagging me about eating so much lately, and I thought it was just because I was putting on that fat you put on in the winter, when you're not so figure concious. But no, it was, of course again, because he was looking and comparing me to "sexy" women. I mean YES, I'd love to have a tiny waste, and big boobs, and a big butt, but I DON'T. I have a medium waste...get over it. He treats me with so much adoration when he's not comparing me to models! So I went through the first year of my marriage dealing with my husband thinking that I'm just not good enough. I need to eat less, and work out more, and any amount of eating less doesn't get any compliments, I am still not trim enough. I did have to compete with those freaking models. Until I had enough, and told him that I wasn't dealing with it any more, and that porn had to go. He of course denied that he compared me to them, but he stopped nagging me about my weight as soon as they were gone. So I don't want them back. I don't think I'd have a problem if I were with a NORMAL man who looked at porn. If I were with a man that found me crazy sexy after I got done mowing the lawn. My husband isn't like that though. He thinks I should be perfect. If I'm eating a candy bar, he'll get a puppy dog face, and say, "Don't get fat." I'm like, "One candy bar is not going to make me fat..." I'M NOT FAT!!! I'M HOT!!! I told him the other day, that I wasn't going to even BOTHER trying to be sexy for him, because every other man in the world appreciates my looks, EXCEPT HIM! I hadn't had this problem with him for a long time. Lo and behold, I find porn again, and now I see why that I'm suddenly not skinny enough. Why he makes pig noises when I eat. Why he makes a face when I take my shirt off. I see now. If he is so insane that he thinks that I'm going to have the time, energy, and money that a model, who's whole career revolves around looking a certain way has, then I should be allowed to expect him to stop looking at models, since he doesn't know how to diferentiate between fantasy and reality. And when I'm feeling extremely close to the man that I love, and then find blaring evidence that he's LYING to me, then I'm going to be hurt, and I'm going to feel crushed. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FolderWife Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 It's NOT JUST my insecurity. It's the way he treats me. When he's not looking at porn, an I take my shirt off, he whistles. When he is looking at porn, and I take my shirt off, he makes a face. When he's not looking at porn, he asks me if I wanna go out for dinner. When he is looking at porn, he says, "We need to stop eating out." When he's not looking at porn, he tells me how good I look. When he is looking at porn, he makes snorty pig noises when I eat. I don't want to be pretty much told that I need to starve myself to look good, by a man who's so mentally chalenged that he thinks that women are SUPPOSED to look like that. I know I look good. Everyone else thinks I look good. A co worker's husband made it a POINT to call me the other day, and tell me how beautiful he thought I was. He said he wasn't hitting on me, but he just thought that I was so pretty that he wanted to tell me. He said now he knows why his wife hasn't invited me to dinner, because I'm so good looking. So if some straaaaaaange man that I've never met before in my life, and who has NO IDEA what my self esteem goes through feels the need to tell me this, then WHY IS MY HUSBAND SO MESSED UP THAT HE TELLS ME POINT BLANK THAT I'M EATING TOO MUCH!?!?!? Because I'm a noraml, good looking woman, who's married to a man who doesn't know the difference between fake and real. I had no problem with boyfriends looking at porn. Until I married this man, who will look at a woman going down on a guy, think it's so hot to watch her that he has to masterbate, then when I walk in tells me that we need to stop eating out. HELLO!!!! if I have self esteem problems, it's his fault. He's not normal at all! I thought that I was really that unattractive for a while, and I'd starve myself, and excercise, and go sexless, and finally, I realized that I wasn't the problem, but his messed up head was. So I started crying, and when he asked me what was wrong, I told him that he looked at porn too much, and he got rid of it. So then I threw out all the old junk we had lying around, and had a long talk and told him that I couldn't deaL with it any more, and he said that he didn't need it, and since it hurt me, he wouldn't look at it any more. BUT I'VE TOLD THIS STORY A HUNDRED TIMES. It's not worth repeating. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 When he's not looking at porn, he tells me how good I look. When he is looking at porn, he makes snorty pig noises when I eat. IF my husband did that to me I would f**k'n throw the plate of food his way and just say, Hmm, this piggy is pissed off! See ya when you grow up abit! I hope things get better for you Monday. Maybe go stay at a friends house for afew days or tell him to go away for afew days?? Just a thought... Link to post Share on other sites
Nocturnalkitee Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Your husband needs a reality check!!! Most of those women don't look anything like that in person. A lot of them have stretch-marks, cellulite,and flabby stomachs, a person would not notice because of all the different angles and lighting they use when filming. I wonder how your husband would feel if you started comparing him to other men. Link to post Share on other sites
Author FolderWife Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 Originally posted by Nocturnalkitee I wonder how your husband would feel if you started comparing him to other men. Good question! The only problem with giving him his own medicine, is that stupid me loves him, and I don't want to put him through that. Yes, I have personal doubts about myself, but I feel that I am mentally capable of realizing that he's too dumb to realize what he's saying. However, if I'd treat him like he treats me, it would do irreparable damage. I don't want to stoop to his level...but it's about to come to that Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts