When is enough stregth training?

[dichotomy]

Question for those who lift weights and are trying to either build strength... or muscle size....at what point would you feel enough is enough?

 

Lifting 1.0 times your weight? 1.5 times your weight? 2.0 times ? as much as you can keep adding?

 

Body with a 8 inch drop, 10 inch drop, 12 inch drop, or 14 inch drop from chest to waist?

 

XXL shirts?

 

Kind of feeling (with comments from wife) that as a middle aged father of two kids and professional, I am approaching a decent enough limit and success - and need to pursue other fitness goals and activities. I have a few in mind. For sure more weight loss should be more a priority for me right now.

 

But darn it - I like challenging myself on the lifting.

 

Gals feel free to comment as well.

Edited August 6, 2013 by dichotomy

[tman666]

Strength is not always synonymous with size. While adding muscle mass (and therefore recruitable muscle fibers) will definitely help with strength, strength is largely an adaptation of the central nervous system.

 

As such, a person can still be quite strong without putting on a ton of muscle.

 

Here's the thing though: without chemical assistance and a lot of hard work-something which is not found in many gyms- most people will not end up looking terribly big anyway. Obviously, there's variations in genetic potential, but NOBODY wakes up one day looking like Ahhhnold or Phil Health.

 

I think there's a tendency amongst the untrained public to severely underestimate how much goes into building a "freaky" physique. Trust me, it doesn't happen by accident.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that, in my humble opinion, as soon as you allow yourself to say "I'm at my ideal and this is enough", you're going to stop making progress. I can't fathom how one would possess the drive and persistence to put in the blood, sweat, and tears, over a period of years or decades required to attain their ideal, and then just be able to "shut it off". Maybe just low standards and mediocre goals?

 

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying that there's something wrong with feeling good and accomplished about one's physique and abilities. Being constantly negative and talking down to yourself isn't healthy.

 

Given all of this, I form my opinion on this topic just like I form my opinion on other things: I weigh the evidence as I've experienced it and the pros and cons. I personally don't think there is such a thing as being "too strong". Too big? Too lean? Too tan? Those are certainly more debatable.

Edited August 6, 2013 by tman666

[dichotomy]

Yes I understand the difference of course between lifting for strength and bodybuilding.

 

I have been using the 5x5 strong lifts program for a while now. I have made lifting kind of a personal hobby, and benefit from some genetics, some decent hormone levels, and supplement. Arnold - ha ! not even close!!. not even in the ball park... but for my age and specific demographic, I think I am pushing some decent weight and also of a decent size (shirt/suit shopping is a challenge). I am considering if I should level off – still lift, but not try to continue to lift heavier …. and focus more on some other sports and fitness activities. I do jog a little and do yoga, but just as fillers when I need recovery.

 

So that's what my point was - at what point does a normal person stop trying to lift more ... be stronger and to a certain extent larger? Their are certain bench marks, by age, for what is considered excellent strength levels.

Edited August 6, 2013 by dichotomy

[thefooloftheyear]

I can only speak for myself...Ill only back off when i get hurt...

 

Strength and size is like money...You can never have too much..

 

TFY

[RonaldS]

A lot of guys that I talk to who are still active athletes have come to the same place I'm at....enough of the heavy weights. Don't want to be swoll, just want to be cut.

 

Almost everything I do know is lighter weights, and push-ups, pull-ups, kettlebell and TRX stuff. I don't lift anything over about 90lbs. Rather than heaving big weight around, the focus is on functional muscle. So, given that the primary sport I play is basketball, the emphasis is on speed, agility and endurance. I do a lot more explosive movements in one direction countered by slow negative resistance moves (eg push-ups....slow going down, hold it in the down position for 3 seconds, fast explosive push back up). When I was younger and just trying to throw a lot of weight up, I was strong but I wasn't as fast. I also didn't have the endurance. Now I have have a much more diverse work out regimine that focuses as much on flexibility, core strength and explosive movements. Shoulders feel better, back feels a ton better, and I'm running and jumping like I did in my early 20s....well, maybe my vertical isn't what it used to be, but still more than enough.

 

And my clothes fit nicely.

 

Anyway, I am more than happy with my strength and build, and don't need or want it to get 'better'.

Edited August 7, 2013 by RonaldS

[tman666]

In that case, I say that if you're not enjoying it, you're doing it wrong...

 

If you like lifting heavy, think it's fun, and feel gratified by hitting PRs, then why stop, barring injury or sickness? Conversely, if it's just a grind and you don't like it, then find something else to do that you actually enjoy.

 

Quality of life and longevity are also important. If you're in a constant state of fatigue, injury, and dread your gym sessions, then something has to change!

 

My opinion is that learning how to train hard is important, but learning how to train "smart" is more important. Anyone can run themselves (or others, in a training scenario) into a pulp. That doesn't take any thought, foresight, or talent.

 

Smart training includes hard training, but also includes mitigating recovery and mobility issues.

 

Just my $.02. I think the main questions to ask yourself are:

 

1) is this activity improving my life experience?

2) how does the time, energy, and injury potential of this activity stack up against the other things I like doing?

[RonaldS]

In that case, I say that if you're not enjoying it, you're doing it wrong...

 

If you like lifting heavy, think it's fun, and feel gratified by hitting PRs, then why stop, barring injury or sickness? Conversely, if it's just a grind and you don't like it, then find something else to do that you actually enjoy.

 

Quality of life and longevity are also important. If you're in a constant state of fatigue, injury, and dread your gym sessions, then something has to change!

 

My opinion is that learning how to train hard is important, but learning how to train "smart" is more important. Anyone can run themselves (or others, in a training scenario) into a pulp. That doesn't take any thought, foresight, or talent.

 

Smart training includes hard training, but also includes mitigating recovery and mobility issues.

 

Just my $.02. I think the main questions to ask yourself are:

 

1) is this activity improving my life experience?

2) how does the time, energy, and injury potential of this activity stack up against the other things I like doing?

Well, for me, I just don't enjoy lifting. Never have. I don't enjoy push-ups, pull-ups etc either...at least not in the moment. I do them because they're means to an end.

 

If I could have the body I have and never lift a single weight or do any kettlebell crap or whatever, I would be in heaven. I will say, I do like the way I feel after the functional movement classes. But other than that, no. I just don't like it.

 

But, if you want a nice, strong, balanced body, it's part of the program.

[Imported]

I like balance in my physical abilities. When I went from fat to fit, it was almost all based on lifting and diet. Since then, I have changed it up a lot.

 

I now go by:

 

Run 1 mile in X time

Run 3 miles in X time

Run 10+ miles non-stop

 

Do X amount of pull-ups

Do 7 pull-ups with X amount of weight

 

Do X amount of dips

Do 7 dips with X amount of weight

 

Dead-lifts.........I love doing dead-lifts.

Do X amount of dead-lift with three plates

Do 7 dead-lifts with X weight

Do X amount of dead-lifts with 2 plates

 

Push-ups till I puke or get bored at various angles.

I'll do some regular body split lifts every so often for a while using whatever.

 

Swimming.....OMG, I love to swim. When I was just lifting, I didn't even realize how much I would love swimming. Some days, I don't feel it for running, but I always feel like swimming (in the summer). And I always feel like dead-lifting....some weeks, I dead-lift every day. It is fricken crazy.

 

Anyway, I like the body I have now a lot more than when I just lifted and dieted.

 

Oh....X= as much weight or speed or repetitions as possible and I love the number 7. It is lucky and stuff.

[Eternal Sunshine]

Imported, what changed in your body now compared to when you just dieted and lifted?

 

I don't do much cardio now, just watch my diet and lift so I am curious.

[hppr]

It all depends on your goals. I just wanted to be big enough to where attractive women would actually notice me. I hit that goal around 185lbs and my benchpress is a measly 235, but then I have long monkey arms as well. If you are short and stocky you will put up a lot more per pound of body weight.

[EasyHeart]

In that case, I say that if you're not enjoying it, you're doing it wrong...

 

If you like lifting heavy, think it's fun, and feel gratified by hitting PRs, then why stop, barring injury or sickness? Conversely, if it's just a grind and you don't like it, then find something else to do that you actually enjoy.

 

Quality of life and longevity are also important. If you're in a constant state of fatigue, injury, and dread your gym sessions, then something has to change!

 

My opinion is that learning how to train hard is important, but learning how to train "smart" is more important. Anyone can run themselves (or others, in a training scenario) into a pulp. That doesn't take any thought, foresight, or talent.

 

Smart training includes hard training, but also includes mitigating recovery and mobility issues.

 

Just my $.02. I think the main questions to ask yourself are:

 

1) is this activity improving my life experience?

2) how does the time, energy, and injury potential of this activity stack up against the other things I like doing?

I think this is a nice summary. And as you get older, the injury potential becomes much more important. The simple truth is that as we age, it takes longer to heal. And some injuries never heal properly. There are guys at my gym around my age (I'm 51) who can't lift anything without wrapping themselves in braces and supports. Or who walk with permanent limps or have lost movement in their shoulders. I never want to end up like that. I don't see any point to it.

 

To me, the reason I exercise is so that I can live the rest of my life. A lot of my friends and colleagues have pot bellies, heart conditions, ED, diabetes, etc. They can't climb a flight of stairs without panting and can't play basketball with their teenagers. I spend two hours in the gym every week so that I don't have to think about any of those things. I have the same day-to-day functionality as I did when I was 25 and that lets me focus on work, community, family and friends instead of being limited by a non-functioning body. Add in a little stress relief and endorphin rush, and it's a pretty good deal.

 

But I don't delude myself into thinking I'm an athlete or there's any reason to continually push myself to my limit or compete with anyone else. I exercise for the same reason that I eat and sleep: It helps me to have a good life.

[MrRightNow]

I started lifting again last fall after a 6 year break from strength training. My goal is to be able to bench 1.5 times my body weight. Right now I can do about 1.25 times my body weight. After being weak and scrawny for so long, it feels great to get bigger and stronger every month. Some guys don't really care about strength and just want to look good on the beach, in which case being able to lift 1.0 times your body weight is enough as long as you keep your body fat at 10% or less.

[Phoe]

I don't pay attention to the weight when I'm lifting, I just pay attention to how my body feels.

 

I lift enough so that when I reach the last 2 of my reps in a set, I'm burning and almost at failure. Any lighter weight and it'd be too easy, any higher and my joints would be hurting.

 

 

Over time when I find that the weight I've sat at is getting easy, I bump it up.

 

 

I find that keeping this kind of philosophy about lifting keeps things so much simpler and easy. I don't care what the number is. No shame in lifting a little or a lot. Listening to my body is all that matters.

[Emilia]

Just my $.02. I think the main questions to ask yourself are:

 

1) is this activity improving my life experience?

2) how does the time, energy, and injury potential of this activity stack up against the other things I like doing?

Agree. What works for me is mixing things up a bit. I don't have a goal physique though I do have weight goals in powerlifting, it isn't something I can do exclusively though. I have to take a break from it occasionally and do something lighter, mainly because I need cardio more and with a full time job and social life there is only so much time I have for training.

 

I can fall into the trap of being competitive too much when I stop enjoying what I'm doing. To me progress and enjoyment are equally important, go along with accomplishment. Powerlifting, calisthenics, plyometrics, cardio (running), I need them all to feel strong, flexible and fit and I shift focus from time to time.

[dichotomy]

It all depends on your goals. I just wanted to be big enough to where attractive women would actually notice me. I hit that goal around 185lbs and my benchpress is a measly 235, but then I have long monkey arms as well. If you are short and stocky you will put up a lot more per pound of body weight.

 

235 is measly? Is this a one rep max, or your regular 5-10 rep bench press weight. Typically once you hit 225 your considered to have crossed over into a the strength zone.

[dichotomy]

I started lifting again last fall after a 6 year break from strength training. My goal is to be able to bench 1.5 times my body weight. Right now I can do about 1.25 times my body weight. After being weak and scrawny for so long, it feels great to get bigger and stronger every month. Some guys don't really care about strength and just want to look good on the beach, in which case being able to lift 1.0 times your body weight is enough as long as you keep your body fat at 10% or less.

 

http://www.nolimitbenchpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/acsmmensbp.jpg

 

The multiples you list of course are goals mentioned by others, but of course they do vary by age which is on my mind these days as I chase pushing more iron.

 

I tend to favor strength and functionality over appearance but the percent body fat is the kicker of course.

Edited August 8, 2013 by dichotomy

[Imported]

Imported, what changed in your body now compared to when you just dieted and lifted?

 

I don't do much cardio now, just watch my diet and lift so I am curious.

 

Well, I am just smaller. My chest, arms and quads lost a lot of size. My "V" taper went to more of a...errm...V"ish/T"ish taper. I am very much a "mesomorph" naturally. I put on muscle and lean out like I am on drugs. Lifting....using a bodybuilding....routine just took me away from looking like a natural mesomorph and gave me a body that can only be achieved in a gym, doing lifts that isolate different muscles growing them out of sync with the rest. I don't really want to argue it, people can do what they want.

 

I don't think it'll really matter as much for women, if at all. Unless you start shooting up on testosterone. However, if the **** ever hits the fan and zombies start trying to eat your brains......you're so screwed. It's not like you're gonna out-muscle them to stay alive. You're gonna have to run! Better work on your cardio, just in case.

[StandingO]

I can fall into the trap of being competitive too much when I stop enjoying what I'm doing. To me progress and enjoyment are equally important, go along with accomplishment. Powerlifting, calisthenics, plyometrics, cardio (running), I need them all to feel strong, flexible and fit and I shift focus from time to time.

 

I agree,

I had to let go of being driven from a competitive standpoint. I competed in a way with other guy friends in my younger days. I had strength and weaknesses and got in the habit of ignoring my weaknesses and focusing on my strengths. Got big in the upper half as a result. I should of worked on both. Today I can't compete with my GF in Lower Body strength. She has had a career in training and for me it was a hobby. At one point I could of got there in time but and would if I was super competitive but to me it was not worth it. Don't enjoy it and would probably injure myself being in a hurry. I take pride in what I can do and want to maintain. Same for her. She knows she could never get the size and strength in her upper body but she has made herself pretty strong there too while keeping a very feminine look. She never took the testosterone or roids etc thank goodness. Super competitive motivation can lead one down this crazy path.

 

It is a personal choice. Sometimes we are limited due to age, history, genetics, injuries and motivation. Set realistic goals. Reach those and then reset new and larger. Be consistant and have patients.