Outing PUA tactics!

[dasein]

It's similar to parroting.

 

Ever notice how some sales guys nod their heads when they talk? It's been proven that subjects will agree more often when they do this than if they didn't do this at all. It has to be subtle enough to be recognized subconsciously without consciously drawing attention to it.

 

Exactly. When a guy CONSTANTLY uses my name in almost every sentence, for example, it annoys the crap out of me and feels so incredible insincere.

 

Nonono. There's much more to it than that. The parroting thing is just a way to get people to understand the gist of it. Have been in days long training sessions with elite companies over the years in a past life as a stockbroker, trust me, it's not just head-nodding. As far as -science- it is complete quackery. But so is astrology and millions of people swear by such in navigating their romantic lives, and men also use that to seduce women.

 

NLP sounds like a lot of work!

 

Examples of the bolded?

 

It's fun and easy, not work, unless one thinks of feeling really turned on as work. Pardon the lengthy forthcoming description, it is one of those things that takes much more in the typing than in the doing.

 

We are all governed by heuristic thought processes in the brain, shortcuts or rules of thumb that we use to categorize experience into neat packages. Keeps us from going insane with stimuli, especially in a message saturated world. Also deadens us somewhat in emotional response as part of the necessary modulation, such that when someone stimulates non heuristic emotion in us, our response can be drastic. Women dealing with new men are especially on guard with defense mechanisms, and so when they are taken down, they can be over-responsive. They aren't used to it in normal interactions or even dates. Most importantly, they like it and want it so I'm not forcing anything on them.

 

The point of NLP as I do it is to remove the heuristic defense mechanisms and encourage a shared experience of feeling that leads to heightened sexual feelings. It starts out with what I'll call a metronome, shorting out defenses by creating emotional dissonance via back and forth feelings, some positive, some negative. I will usually tell an amusing, interesting story about something that happened to me involving lots of conflicting emotional content.

 

These stories are true and real events, and short enough as it is, but will make one up for brevity (and confidentiality) sake, because I tell the same ones over and over based on how well they work. "I was cut off in traffic last week and almost had a wreck. My dog jumped out of the car window and was running right into traffic. The other party saw this and stopped their car in the median, grabbed my dog by the collar. I started to get angry and shout, then realized it was my HS English teacher. We laughed, gave her a hug, and went our separate way." Note all the conflicting emotional cues. To reiterate, the ones I tell are really true, never made up.

 

Then I will invite her to share similar, which she may or may not, but in telling my story and watching hers, I can tell some of her emotional cues, tells of how she processes information and emotion. The bare rudiment of this (much more to it) is whether people process more aurally, through ears, visually through eyes or mentally or kinesthetically through touch or sensation. Mostly, it's listening and watching, as people's verbal cues match the ways they think. "I think," "I feel," "I see," "I hear you." Also, women rarely wear high necklines on dates, so you get to watch bloodflow in the neck and chest (without tit staring hopefully), slight flushing and pulse increases that signal when attraction or at least emotion is building, peaking or absent, shields are coming down, the right buttons pressed.

 

Then there's cocktail play and area conversations to be interjected among the stories. Women generally order froofy drinks, appletinis, stuff like that, but can work with any drink. "That drink is sure fizzy, is it sweet or sour? How sweet?" Usually she will offer a taste. "Wow that is more sweet than I thought, do you like sour things too? or just sweet?" Give a choice and she is feeling two different feelings, you also get to start the touching when she hands you her drink and you give it back, and you are beginning to share feelings (always walking together or sitting next to each other on a bench or bar, never across a table). Everything out of my mouth subtly elicits emotional response with some contradictory negative response thrown in to keep the metronome moving back and forth. She thinks "he's so interesting!"

 

This goes back and forth for 20-30 minutes. More stories, more feelings, more sharing. Sometimes I can tell she doesn't find me at all attractive, and then I still do the feeling cues to see if I can change the tide, but it rarely works. Usually there is some attraction though or they wouldn't have gone out with me to begin with. By moderately careful attention, and yes some matching her breathing rate and posture, eye play and gesturing, I can hone in on her responses. The shields are now down and time to set up a makeout session in a public bar an hour or so into a first date.

 

One of my favorites is the little black dress. Once she is ready, I will slide in the question, "do you own a little black dress?" Well most do, so next comes "I can see you in it. Do you like to dance?" At this point I will usually take her hand as if I'm going to dance with her right there. If I've done my preliminary work right, this usually results in the "head caress," where she puts her head on my chest or shoulder for a moment or presses her breasts into me, even more stimulating. If I have time, I will give her ear a little tweak between my fingers when she does this. I stumbled on this, but for some reason that ear tweak is deadly, she will almost always escalate the touching then and we are both about ready to do it right there. At that point I keep up the emotional cues, escalate the touching, but let her break the plane more than I do, and usually find her putting her face right in mine wanting to be kissed or out and out kissing me. Sometimes, she will whisper "you're a dirty dirty boy aren't you?" or some other even more explicit thing. The best I've gotten here is "I want to f-ck your mind." Bwhahaha Sometimes they start pulling their top up a bit to show their stomach, and I will usually tone it down at that point as people start staring.

 

Too long, sorry, but again, it's much easier to do than type out. That's the kind of thing I mean by NLP, and as far as it being work, I'm turned on myself just thinking about it and remembering certain results. Really just good clean fun that both enjoy. Oh, and I do not do it to women I won't be seeing again for whatever reason.

[fortyninethousand322]

You're not the only person involved in a PUA technique. There's another human being, a woman, who usually sincerely has some level of genuine romantic feelings for you, involved.

 

I don't use people. You'd use a woman to make yourself more confident? Wow.

 

I have never used PUA myself. I'm simply explaining that a guy who has absolutely no rapport with women could use PUA tips or tactics to get better at flirting or interacting with women. Contrary to popular belief, for the average "dateless loser" interacting with women is not the same as interacting with any old human being. It's a bit more complicated, and confusing.

 

So yeah, if a girl already liked you, you probably don't need PUA to aid you in any way. But if your last date was October 2009 (just throwing a random date out there), it's not like you're really manipulating someone who already likes you.

 

No offense, but since you're not a guy who's hard up for date, you probably wouldn't understand the psychology of why someone would resort to PUA. Walking a mile in someone else's shoes and all of that...

[Treasa]

I actually understand NLP very well. I've always used it in job interviews, and with ONE exception, have always gotten every job I've ever applied for.

 

But taking it too far is a bad move.

[ThaWholigan]

That was a big aspect of the George Sodini story. He'd paid money for these PUA seminars and been frustrated by the lack of effectiveness. That's the scary aspect of this pop psychology crap. It's delivered by marketing men - some of whom seem to think their cursory knowledge of basic psychology equips them to cure the interpersonal problems of people who have major issues.

I do kinda agree. David D'Angelo was a marketing genius who made money off of PUA/Seduction when he wasn't really about that life like that. He's now married.

 

As for Sodini, he actually became a poster-child for the anti-PUA movement among men (i.e. love-shy, puahate etc)

[sillyanswer]

Escalating touching (aka KINO)

 

It was years after I already knew that I did this that I discovered that it had a name and was a "PUA tactic". Sometimes I just can't keep my hands off the sexy wimminz.

 

What others are there?

 

Learning about common Sh,t Tests and having answers ready for them. (it's not just guys who have systems they follow...)

[Star Gazer]

This is from a blog I just found a guy talking about approaches.

 

Noticed her from across the coffee shop but the seating arrangement was sub-optimal, with her at small table at the wall and me on the opposite side of the store with no space to sit down. She was using a laptop but appeared to be glancing up once in a while, not completely engrossed in what she was doing. I waited for someone to leave and then snaked a seat two tables away.

 

I asked how she liked her laptop and rambled a bit more than usual about wanting to get something I could travel with, talked about how iPad was good but a tool for consumption and not production, etc. She was very receptive and started asking me questions about what I was doing there, where I went to school, etc. We talked for a few minutes, and I told her I had to get going but said we should get a drink sometime and asked for her number. She asked for my Facebook and I told her I didn’t have one. She gave me her number and we exchanged a few texts later that night. We ended up dating for a while.

 

Pros: Approached a very attractive girl with sub-optimal logistics. Rambled longer than usual to create more comfort, which had been a problem in past approaches. Did not cave into beta-bait Facebook request.

 

Cons: None.

 

There's no PUA there either. That's just an approach, not unlike how *I* would strike up a conversation with another woman about her laptop.

[Star Gazer]

Learning about common Sh,t Tests and having answers ready for them. (it's not just guys who have systems they follow...)

 

Oh yes, the alleged sh*t test. This is one I have yet to really understand.

 

Example?

[Treasa]

Wait, what? What's this **** test?

[GorillaTheater]

There's no PUA there either. That's just an approach, not unlike how *I* would strike up a conversation with another woman about her laptop.

 

I guess I know jack about PUA stuff in general (I always thought it was at least a way for some guys to start talking to women however ineptly), but why wouldn't this be PUA? PUA can't only be the laughably stupid stuff, can it?

[ThaWholigan]

Oh yes, the alleged sh*t test. This is one I have yet to really understand.

 

Example?

Sh*t-test = the girl is basically being a bitch to him to see how he will react. She will be unnecessarily rude and/or closed off to him and how he reacts will make or break the encounter. The theory is that women always test men, even in relationships. As the man, you have to project that you are "above her sh*t tests" and she will be interested, through intrigue ("Why didn't he take the bait? He's different.....")

[Star Gazer]

I guess I know jack about PUA stuff in general (I always thought it was at least a way for some guys to start talking to women however ineptly), but why wouldn't this be PUA? PUA can't only be the laughably stupid stuff, can it?

 

PUA in my mind goes beyond simply being a genuine, pleasant, positive human being and being engaging with a woman.

 

The very use of the word "tactic" or "technique" after PUA implies something insincere and underhanded about the whole thing.

[Star Gazer]

Sh*t-test = the girl is basically being a bitch to him to see how he will react. She will be unnecessarily rude and/or closed off to him and how he reacts will make or break the encounter. The theory is that women always test men, even in relationships. As the man, you have to project that you are "above her sh*t tests" and she will be interested, through intrigue ("Why didn't he take the bait? He's different.....")

 

Right. What sh*t tests do men do?

[ThaWholigan]

I guess I know jack about PUA stuff in general (I always thought it was at least a way for some guys to start talking to women however ineptly), but why wouldn't this be PUA? PUA can't only be the laughably stupid stuff, can it?

 

It isn't. I just think it's convenient to paint all of PUA as this bad thing that is both stupid and evil.

 

No offense ladies, I get that there's a lot of sh*t in it.

[Anela]

I do kinda agree. David D'Angelo was a marketing genius who made money off of PUA/Seduction when he wasn't really about that life like that. He's now married.

 

As for Sodini, he actually became a poster-child for the anti-PUA movement among men (i.e. love-shy, puahate etc)

 

Wait a minute: so puahate, the people really do hate PUA? And they hate women, too?

[ThaWholigan]

Right. What sh*t tests do men do?

 

Well, PUA theory doesn't cover a man's ****-test - the man's version would really be qualification and a bit of negging.

 

Or he will attempt to get away with some outrageous sh*t, usually "innuendo" or "kino" related - if he's brave

[fortyninethousand322]

It's a tactic because for some people, engaging in a sexy or flirtatious way with the opposite sex is about as easy as reading Ancient Cuneiform backwards, in Wingdings font...

[Anela]

I guess I know jack about PUA stuff in general (I always thought it was at least a way for some guys to start talking to women however ineptly), but why wouldn't this be PUA? PUA can't only be the laughably stupid stuff, can it?

 

PUA would be more like, "Your laptop is in my way," or something like that, or the noise was annoying him. "You have really bad taste in computers."

[Taramere]

I do kinda agree. David D'Angelo was a marketing genius who made money off of PUA/Seduction when he wasn't really about that life like that. He's now married.

 

As for Sodini, he actually became a poster-child for the anti-PUA movement among men (i.e. love-shy, puahate etc)

 

I remember reading a couple of PUA sites soon after that Sodini thing to see what they were saying about it. I saw a lot of "if only he'd come here/taken advice from some of us/we could have sorted the guy out..." It brought to me how delusional some of them are. When the PUA stuff was popular several years back there seemed to be this belief amongst its followers that they were tapping into some secret well of knowledge about human behaviour.

 

You'd think "come on - just read some basic psychology. Attachment theory, object relations theory - all of this PUA stuff is just a watered down version of theories that any person who's done a basic course in human behaviour is going to be familiar with." Yet if you were to direct any one of them to the source theories, unless you were an established PUA guru you would probably be met with sneers and mockery.

[Treasa]

Well, PUA theory doesn't cover a man's ****-test - the man's version would really be qualification and a bit of negging.

 

Or he will attempt to get away with some outrageous sh*t, usually "innuendo" or "kino" related - if he's brave

 

And here I thought Kino was a game like Bingo or someone's actual last name. Wow, I'm really naive to this stuff.

[ThaWholigan]

Wait a minute: so puahate, the people really do hate PUA? And they hate women, too?

 

They do hate PUAs - probably far more than they hate women. I think some of them hate women, while the others really believe that everything centers on how you look, how much money you have and how much social power you have (hence Looks Money Status theory).

 

Strangely enough, I don't think they hate women - they're just damaged by their experiences and use the internet to take it out on women.

[Star Gazer]

Or he will attempt to get away with some outrageous sh*t, usually "innuendo" or "kino" related - if he's brave

 

Such as, "I don't think you can handle me!" followed by c*ck shots?

[GorillaTheater]

PUA in my mind goes beyond simply being a genuine, pleasant, positive human being and being engaging with a woman.

 

The very use of the word "tactic" or "technique" after PUA implies something insincere and underhanded about the whole thing.

 

Perhaps, and I get that the whole PUA concept drives most women crazy, but to me it seems that some guys need a little assistance in being engaging with a woman. Tricks and negging and BS aside, that doesn't seem to be particularly evil to me.

[Treasa]

They do hate PUAs - probably far more than they hate women. I think some of them hate women, while the others really believe that everything centers on how you look, how much money you have and how much social power you have (hence Looks Money Status theory).

 

Strangely enough, I don't think they hate women - they're just damaged by their experiences and use the internet to take it out on women.

 

I think they hate women who don't validate them, even though they are the ones who should be validating themselves.

[Treasa]

Perhaps, and I get that the whole PUA concept drives most women crazy, but to me it seems that some guys need a little assistance in being engaging with a woman. Tricks and negging and BS aside, that doesn't seem to be particularly evil to me.

 

So, basic social skills?

[Star Gazer]

Perhaps, and I get that the whole PUA concept drives most women crazy, but to me it seems that some guys need a little assistance in being engaging with a woman. Tricks and negging and BS aside, that doesn't seem to be particularly evil to me.

 

I agree; problem is, the guys that seek out help with women on the interwebz rely on the BS form, not the "be a genuine, engaging guy" with common sense and social skills-form (which, IMO, can't really be taught - it's innate).