Outing PUA tactics!

[New User]

Considering men on this forum are complaining about their issues all the freaking time and about the most stupid matters, I think lack of such thread clearly shows that it doesn't really bother them as much as you claim it does, not even close. And really? Lowering one's confidence level to get them to like and accept you (which can have long term negative effects on the person) to you is on the same level as one putting a bit more makeup on which results in her own humiliation in the morning anyway? And if makeup is manipulation, so is dressing in a flattering way or using a cologne...

 

And men knowingly go for a woman with boobjob, with tons of makeup, because guess what? They're aware of all these "tricks" and they just love the end result. I really wished you were right and they didn't, that they wanted a natural woman. But that's far from reality these days.

 

I still don't think that's really how it works (assuming that you're referring to "negging" here). I think that it's just a matter of building tension. Playful teasing accompanied by appropriate tone and body language isn't in the same category as intentionally humiliating someone. I suspect we've all both given and received the kind of playful banter that we're really talking about here. I further suspect that we've all enjoyed both giving and getting it.

 

I don't doubt that some men prefer or don't mind enhanced breasts, but I question how many. I'd much rather be with a flat chested natural woman than a silicone enhanced one. I'm quite certain I'm not anywhere near alone on that- in my group of friends I know of exactly one guy that thinks silicone enhanced breasts are cool. I don't really know much about makeup, but I can say that I've always thought the women I've been with were the most beautiful when they got out of bed in the morning. Maybe that's just because it's natural and it always seems like an intimate moment. I'm not self-aware enough to say exactly why- nor, honestly, am I observant enough to notice a significant difference between a woman who is wearing makeup and one that isn't- unless they're wearing really loud lipstick or pancake makeup. I've had several women tell me that they wear makeup for other women, not for men. I'm inclined to believe that.

[Treasa]

I think making yourself look as good as possible and purposely trying to bring someone's self-esteem down so you can have sex with them are two different things.

[fortyninethousand322]

I just don't get the PUA love nor the PUA hate. Someone might use it as a way to get a date. And as soon as they get that date they turn into their normal selves. So what?

 

On the other hand, it's probably not the most effective way to get better with women. But, as some have pointed out, being good at attracting the opposite sex is an innate ability.

 

So use it if you want, don't use it if you don't want.

[Negative Nancy]

If manipulating a woman into having sex is not wrong, then nor is manipulating a man into spending money or whatever else a woman decides. After all, nobody is forcing them right?

 

Very good point, men need to be shown their ridiculous hypocrisy.

[Treasa]

I just don't get the PUA love nor the PUA hate. Someone might use it as a way to get a date. And as soon as they get that date they turn into their normal selves. So what?

 

On the other hand, it's probably not the most effective way to get better with women. But, as some have pointed out, being good at attracting the opposite sex is an innate ability.

 

So use it if you want, don't use it if you don't want.

 

If it makes you feel better about yourself, that's fine. Assuming it doesn't involve intentionally hurting someone else.

[fortyninethousand322]

hmmm, not sure about that...I don't recall you ever asking me out

 

I'd probably be too scared of rejection if I ever saw you in real life. Women are scary in person. Especially with the kind of interactions I've had.

[dasein]

And men knowingly go for a woman with boobjob, with tons of makeup, because guess what? They're aware of all these "tricks" and they just love the end result. I really wished you were right and they didn't, that they wanted a natural woman. But that's far from reality these days.

 

You are proving my point. To repeat, most of my early dating life was full of heartbreak, of hearing "you are so smart and cerebral, but I just don't -feel- that way about you." Well guess what, they get more -feelings- than they can handle these days, and the results for all concerned are much more satisfying, certainly more fun. Haven't had any complaints, and haven't been friendzoned in years and years. I learned to PUA before such an inaccurate acronym existed, and won't be going back to the old way. Fact: Men learn what works and apply it. Women determine what works and what doesn't.

 

If men go for women with lots of "physical enhancement" then women are no different in their preferences for men with lots of charm, and "PUA" is just "charm" misspelled.

 

Perhaps the tossoff advice to men, "be yourself," "be confident" is better in your opinion? It isn't. It's like telling a blind person to keep walking through the woods and they'll eventualy stop running into trees.

[mesmerized]

I still don't think that's really how it works (assuming that you're referring to "negging" here). I think that it's just a matter of building tension. Playful teasing accompanied by appropriate tone and body language isn't in the same category as intentionally humiliating someone. I suspect we've all both given and received the kind of playful banter that we're really talking about here. I further suspect that we've all enjoyed both giving and getting it.

 

I don't doubt that some men prefer or don't mind enhanced breasts, but I question how many. I'd much rather be with a flat chested natural woman than a silicone enhanced one. I'm quite certain I'm not anywhere near alone on that- in my group of friends I know of exactly one guy that thinks silicone enhanced breasts are cool. I don't really know much about makeup, but I can say that I've always thought the women I've been with were the most beautiful when they got out of bed in the morning. Maybe that's just because it's natural and it always seems like an intimate moment. I'm not self-aware enough to say exactly why- nor, honestly, am I observant enough to notice a significant difference between a woman who is wearing makeup and one that isn't- unless they're wearing really loud lipstick or pancake makeup. I've had several women tell me that they wear makeup for other women, not for men. I'm inclined to believe that.

 

Well, guess what? I'm a woman dealing with and dating men. I know far better than you what men actually like. I see what they respond to and a natural non-enhanced look ain't it. Men are bombarded with images of airbrushed/enhanced women where ever they go, to the point that a normal/average looking woman is just not "hot enough". I guarantee you that the majority of men in this forum are going to call most celebrities "ugly" once they see their without makeup pictures. My very good friend has huge boob jobs and she even makes it known to men, yet she gets a great deal of attention for them. It is what it is.

[New User]

That's why it's better at the outset, to err on the side of being courteous with touch. Once you spend some time with her, then courtesy can shift to more flirtatious touching.

 

As an example, on a first date, the courteous touch is acceptable to the majority of women. At the end of the first date, most women won't mind a light kiss. Once that first kiss milestone has been passed, where she leans into the kiss, her acceptance of and body language has told the guy that he can move towards a bit more flirtatious touching. If her head snaps back in avoidance, as you lean in to kiss her, then you know she's not ready for further intimacies. She might not even accept a second date. But if she accepts a second date, this means that you may have moved a little too fast on the first date for her pace.

 

To me, this is really obvious stuff.

 

 

To you. Honestly, it's instinctive to me. I don't ever do these things consciously or even realize I'm doing them. It isn't obvious to the guys that need help. It borders on tragic (yeah- hyperbole) to me to watch a guy with no clue try to do a paint by numbers display of interest. It's kinda like watching a band try to play a song when they know the lyrics but not the music. At this point in my life I really feel for the guys that- for whatever reason- don't know how to do what has come naturally to me my entire life.

[mesmerized]

You are proving my point. To repeat, most of my early dating life was full of heartbreak, of hearing "you are so smart and cerebral, but I just don't -feel- that way about you." Well guess what, they get more -feelings- than they can handle these days, and the results for all concerned are much more satisfying, certainly more fun. Haven't had any complaints, and haven't been friendzoned in years and years. I learned to PUA before such an inaccurate acronym existed, and won't be going back to the old way. Fact: Men learn what works and apply it. Women determine what works and what doesn't.

 

If men go for women with lots of "physical enhancement" then women are no different in their preferences for men with lots of charm, and "PUA" is just "charm" misspelled.

 

Perhaps the tossoff advice to men, "be yourself," "be confident" is better in your opinion? It isn't. It's like telling a blind person to keep walking through the woods and they'll eventualy stop running into trees.

 

Am I? So women KNOW for a fact that you have certain rather questionable techniques you use on almost every woman to bed them and still go for it? If that's the case, sure, I have no problem with that!

[tbf]

Again, a woman doing anything to improve her own personal appearance simply cannot be compared to a man using insincere manipulation tactics to bed a woman.

 

*I* haven't done/said anything "over and over in threads like this."

 

But I do find it quite humorous that you're equating those men who believe in and rely on PUA to attract women to being handicapped.

Star, he's setting up a strawman for you to knock down. In doing so, he's taken the upper hand and now you need to prove to him that he's wrong over something that's not relevant to this thread, while at the same time, he's thread jacking in order to shift the thread to gender wars.

 

Refuse to play.

[dasein]

Am I? So women KNOW for a fact that you have certain rather questionable techniques you use on almost every woman to bed them and still go for it? If that's the case, sure, I have no problem with that!

 

Who said I bed all of them? I set most of them free for awhile at least, to get the second stage of conditioning truly cemented in. I'm building an army you know, helter skelter and all that.

[fortyninethousand322]

Maybe women should be teaching these men how to be acceptably sociable and flirty, not other men. *shrugs*

 

I'll do it for free.

 

1. It can't be taught. It's innate. You'd be wasting your time.

2. PUA is a placebo. It doesn't actually work, just psychologically.

[Treasa]

1. It can't be taught. It's innate. You'd be wasting your time.

2. PUA is a placebo. It doesn't actually work, just psychologically.

 

Assuming that's true, it's still a better placebo to come from a woman. Because, y'know, women KNOW women and what they like...

 

Besides, if you have a trusted female friend, you can try things out on her (with her knowledge and permission, of course), and see what she says would work and what would get you a kick to the groin.

[mesmerized]

I'd probably be too scared of rejection if I ever saw you in real life. Women are scary in person. Especially with the kind of interactions I've had.

 

lol, men are scary in person too. Why do you think women are so deadly afraid of asking men out? same reasons!

Edited August 7, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[tbf]

1. Intellectually, it's probably obvious. Unfortunately in the real world, people panic and can't figure out how to act the right way.

2. You're a bit more cerebral than most on here.

3. It's not obvious to everyone. Which kind of goes back to point #1. And is probably a big piece of evidence for evolutionary biology/psychology...

The above are irrelevant to my motive for laying it out. I don't even think about any of it while dating. When I'm out on a date, I relax, enjoy and let it play out. If the guy's moving a bit too slow, I pick up the pace with encouragement. Say he's giving me a light kiss and I want a bit more. I'll deepen the kiss a hair and gauge by his reaction whether or not I've pushed it too far.

 

I don't think you understand how scary that is. Strong possibility of not being well received.

Scary to take someone's hand at a club? If we're winding our way through a crowded club, even if the guy doesn't initiate, I'll touch his back or arm or take his hand so we're not separated. This is so win/win in that it's practical to do so and also, that you get to touch someone you're attracted to.

 

To you. Honestly, it's instinctive to me. I don't ever do these things consciously or even realize I'm doing them. It isn't obvious to the guys that need help. It borders on tragic (yeah- hyperbole) to me to watch a guy with no clue try to do a paint by numbers display of interest. It's kinda like watching a band try to play a song when they know the lyrics but not the music. At this point in my life I really feel for the guys that- for whatever reason- don't know how to do what has come naturally to me my entire life.

It's unfathomable for me to imagine that kind of anxiety level over dating. Dating isn't a commitment.

[Star Gazer]

No. You get advice from men who are successful with women.

 

Success with women defined as what? Having sex with her? That's not success.

[Philosopher]

I think the success of any PUA tactics you use will depend very much on the women you are interacting with, in particular what sort of humour and jokes they like. Quite a few women I know enjoy the mild teasing and banter that PUA's seem to love. Quite often they will respond back with some teasing and banter of their own. PUA tactics will probably work great on these women.

 

However if you try some of these PUA tactics on women who regard that style of humour as just not funny or immature, you will probably get blank stares and at worst, a slap in the face.

[Treasa]

It's unfathomable for me to imagine that kind of anxiety level over dating. Dating isn't a commitment.

 

This is what it comes down to in my mind. Let go of expectations, pressure, etc. Learn to enjoy your life as it goes, not having a certain outcome in mind. You're almost always going to be disappointed otherwise, because while you can control yourself, that is ALL you can control. You can't control anyone else or outside influences.

 

When I let go of all of that fear of failure, fear of success, fear of other people, fear of the future...I really learned to LOVE my life. I'm happy about 99% of the time now, and it has nothing to do with anyone else. I have things in my life that make me feel fulfilled, and anything else is just bonus.

[kaylan]

So, as I learn more about PUA tactics, I'm better able to identify them and their users. The ones I see the most often are:

Push/Pull

 

Negging

 

"...see if you can impress me." (I don't know the name/term for this)

 

Escalating touching (aka KINO)

What others are there?

All PUA terms are really just over-analytical ways of describing basic flirting and dating interactions.

 

Push/Pull = Giving someone what they give you in terms of attention

 

Negging = Chop busting and feisty jokes

 

KINO = Flirting by touch

 

None of that stuff is really PUA stuff. Its all common stuff that anyone who isnt socially dumb should be doing in dating.

[fortyninethousand322]

The above are irrelevant to my motive for laying it out. I don't even think about any of it while dating. When I'm out on a date, I relax, enjoy and let it play out. If the guy's moving a bit too slow, I pick up the pace with encouragement. Say he's giving me a light kiss and I want a bit more. I'll deepen the kiss a hair and gauge by his reaction whether or not I've pushed it too far.

 

Well, I'll be perfectly honest with you. Every single moment on a date is something I think about over and over. Should I touch her? Should I smile at her? Should I try to hold her hand? Should I hug her? Does she like me? Should I try to joke around?

 

I mean literally every single thing is analyzed. The only thing that comes on instinct is normal casual conversation. Like I'm talking to someone in the checkout line at the grocery store.

 

Scary to take someone's hand at a club? If we're winding our way through a crowded club, even if the guy doesn't initiate, I'll touch his back or arm or take his hand so we're not separated. This is so win/win in that it's practical to do so and also, that you get to touch someone you're attracted to.

 

I was on a date once (not even a first date either) and I went to hold her hand as we walked towards the boss stop for her to get her ride home from college. She immediately recoiled and took her hand back.

 

Now, maybe perhaps I misread her signals, which is possible. But, if so, then I have no idea what signals indicate interest vs platonic feelings. I mean at the time, if I had ever been sure that a girl liked me, it was her.

 

So yeah, the prospect of going to take a girl's hand is very scary to me. Sure, the worst that could happen is she'll take her hand away. But, that feeling is horrible. Liked getting punched in the gut.

 

It's unfathomable for me to imagine that kind of anxiety level over dating. Dating isn't a commitment.

 

Hang out with me sometime. You'll begin to fathom it pretty easily...

[tbf]

This is what it comes down to in my mind. Let go of expectations, pressure, etc. Learn to enjoy your life as it goes, not having a certain outcome in mind. You're almost always going to be disappointed otherwise, because while you can control yourself, that is ALL you can control. You can't control anyone else or outside influences.

 

When I let go of all of that fear of failure, fear of success, fear of other people, fear of the future...I really learned to LOVE my life. I'm happy about 99% of the time now, and it has nothing to do with anyone else. I have things in my life that make me feel fulfilled, and anything else is just bonus.

I agree. As it relates into PUA, don't be outcome dependent.

[sillyanswer]

Success with women defined as what? Having sex with her? That's not success.

 

In a thread about PUA... well, it might be!

[Star Gazer]

Push/Pull = Giving someone what they give you in terms of attention

 

Wrong. It's intentionally giving and then withdrawing attention.

 

Negging = Chop busting and feisty jokes

 

Wrong. It's intentionally creating insecurity and fear in a woman.

[Treasa]

 

I was on a date once (not even a first date either) and I went to hold her hand as we walked towards the boss stop for her to get her ride home from college. She immediately recoiled and took her hand back.

 

Now, maybe perhaps I misread her signals, which is possible. But, if so, then I have no idea what signals indicate interest vs platonic feelings. I mean at the time, if I had ever been sure that a girl liked me, it was her.

 

So yeah, the prospect of going to take a girl's hand is very scary to me. Sure, the worst that could happen is she'll take her hand away. But, that feeling is horrible. Liked getting punched in the gut.

 

I can definitely understand why that would hurt. However, it's not a reflection of YOU. For all you know, she had a wart on her hand. Or her hands were sweaty and she was embarrassed. It could have been anything.

 

You can choose to be happy without changing anything in your life. Honest. OK, I'm getting away from the topic...