Outing PUA tactics!

[kaylan]

I don't know (or really care) what it's called in PUA terminology, but matching the interaction/communication style and frequency in order to avoid wasting time on someone who seems uninterested just seems more like a sensible thing to do rather than something manipulative.

Thats what many guys see push/pull as. StarGazer is saying some guys use it to play games. But Im also saying that many just use it to go with the flow and not becoming overly invested in a girl who isnt that interested.

[tbf]

Yep. This is what was used on me, for the most part. It was the timing, left me feeling like everyone else would have the same response (to what I'd told him, before he disappeared on me for a while). It really hurts some of us; it's bad enough when used on someone who is healthy, but used on someone who already has insecurities? Then came the putting me down... I was better off when I clued in to what was happening, but he really did some damage, when I'd been doing better for myself.

I hear you, loud and clear.

 

Players weren't anything new to me, having played some myself as a younger woman. But I wasn't up on the newer PUA techniques during my marriage and hurting badly from infidelity post divorce, was ripe for the picking. I got suckered and hurt too, at the lowest point in my life which drove me lower. Luckily, I also felt unsettled throughout the time, that something was very wrong so my natural wall came down before any serious damage occurred.

[sillyanswer]

...avoid it, yes.

 

Please be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water, though.

[dasein]

Not every PUA site agrees exactly on what it is, but the places I frequent dont use push-pull for mind games. Its used to make sure a guy doesnt waste his time on a girl whos not into him.

 

This brings up a good point, regarless what secret squirrel code lingo is attached to common PUA behaviors, most of them are things average men do naturally that the dating challenged need help with. The coding language is part of the depersonalization of approaching women that many terrified men need to get over their fears.

 

1. Negging - Kid women you meet just like you kid your friends, female friends and sisters, mothers even. Women don't like being treated in a strained, supplicating way. Don't force it or be ugly about it, just give them a bit of a hard time. No one likes a "yes man" or "yes maam."

 

2. Push pull - when women give you noise or act up, test you, don't come running like a puppy dog, have some backbone and stick up for yourself. If a woman gives you a hard time, give her less of your precious time.

 

3. Peacocking - It never hurts to have something about your clothing that draws some attention. Women certainly do this, men can too.

 

4. Sets and staging - Be aware of your surroundings. If you want to meet a particular woman, don't ignore the people with her, that's rude. Involve them in your conversation, to win someone over, win over the group she's with first.

 

5. Cocky funny - Cultivate a sense of humor, and never let people see you sweat. If necessary, fake it til you make it. Works in AA, works in remedial dating.

 

6. AMOG - When out meeting new people, be prepared for dudes who want to freeze you out and have a dick measuring contest. Be ready to defuse with humor or make them look silly.

 

Sometimes I think it's not the actual "techniques" but the fact that they are coded into acronyms and shorthand. Get over this ladies, men have been doing this since forever. It doesn't mean we think you are pleasure nodes to be milked or robots. Go in any business and see all the jargon and acronyms men dream up. It's something we do, not nefarious. Go in any government office and look at all the acronyms and shorthand code at play, and maybe you will start to see PUA for what it is, insecure men making shorthand to depersonalize their dread of interactions that normal men have no problem with.

 

Be nice to PUAs, they are trying. Look past the surface to what they are trying to do, please you. You are in far, far more danger of being manipulated and used by a "natural" than a PUA anyway.

[Treasa]

 

1. Negging - Kid women you meet just like you kid your friends, female friends and sisters, mothers even. Women don't like being treated in a strained, supplicating way. Don't force it or be ugly about it, just give them a bit of a hard time. No one likes a "yes man" or "yes maam."

 

Sure, playfully tease, but know the person well enough to be able to know where to draw the line. And "tell me why I should want to be with you" is not playful kidding.

 

Any person who is genuinely shy/doesn't have great luck socializing with the people they're attracted to have my sympathy and my help, if they'd like it. But when it comes to manipulating people (and this goes for BOTH genders) or hurting people for your own gain, I lose all sympathy.

[Star Gazer]

Thats what many guys see push/pull as. StarGazer is saying some guys use it to play games. But Im also saying that many just use it to go with the flow and not becoming overly invested in a girl who isnt that interested.

 

If you're engaging a girl on the regular, and she's super responsive and makes it clear she's into you, and then you go out on a date, and you tell her how into her you are and how you can't wait to see her again, and then the next day and for a couple days after, completely flip the script and stop contacting her like you have been for weeks, intentionally withdrawing (pulling) to test her interest level and make her feel insecure and make her chase you?

 

That's f*cked up. That's not "going with the flow." And this intentional withholding of contact from a woman who's clearly into you *is* a PUA tactic.

 

Mirroring someone's interest level isn't manipulative. The above most certainly is.

[Anela]

I just can't buy that PUA is so widespread that people need to like, be aware and watchful for it. I've never met a single person outside of the internet who even knows what it is. Most people who are on this board probably never even heard about it UNTIL LS. Most of the "PUA" **** I have read about on LS is stuff that some guys have been doing since the beginning of time, except now it has a name. I've never felt like I was being the target of a "PUA"--I feel like this is something that exists in OLD and not real world interactions that didn't start on the internet.

 

I think people are paranoid about being the "victim" of PUA. Some of the examples I've seen here "hmm I don't know if we would get along" or "what would your best friends say about you, good and bad" do not sound like anything suspect/special to me. I mean maybe you WOULDN'T get along and he really IS thinking that? And asking what people think about you...isn't that pretty common...? How would your best friend describe you and all that. IDK I just can't buy that a significant portion of the male population even knows what PUA is let alone employs it on the reg.

 

I found out about it five years ago, and was disgusted. More and more guys were talking about it, and it seemed like some form of lounge lizard pod people were taking over the male species.

[Star Gazer]

And "tell me why I should want to be with you" is not playful kidding.

 

 

"I'm not convinced I should go out with you."

 

"Let's see if you can impress me."

 

"Tell me a story; show me what you've got."

 

All hoop theory/negging, designed to break down a woman and make her prove herself to a man who's approaching her and trying to get her attracted. It's twisted.

[kaylan]

If you're engaging a girl on the regular, and she's super responsive and makes it clear she's into you, and then you go out on a date, and you tell her how into her you are and how you can't wait to see her again, and then the next day and for a couple days after, completely flip the script and stop contacting her like you have been for weeks, intentionally withdrawing (pulling) to test her interest level and make her feel insecure and make her chase you?

 

That's f*cked up. That's not "going with the flow." And this intentional withholding of contact from a woman who's clearly into you *is* a PUA tactic.

 

Mirroring someone's interest level isn't manipulative. The above most certainly is.

Again, since you have some trouble understanding what I am saying, not every guy interprets push pull the same way.

 

Some men use it to throw a girl for a loop, while other guys use it just to shadow the interest level of the female they had been pursuing.

 

Comprende?

[Treasa]

All hoop theory/negging, designed to break down a woman and make her prove herself to a man who's approaching her and trying to get her attracted. It's twisted.

 

And completely wasted on women with self-respect who know their own worth. And isn't that the kind of woman people want to be with? I like women, and I wouldn't settle for less.

[Divasu]

I dunno. I can't say it's anything specific, when my spidey sense is going off, I try to pay more attention to that versus anything else. Though, there have been a couple of instances where it was clear as day.

 

Having said that, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to focus in on specifics, sometimes that can create paranoia.

 

Sometimes, the best defense is a good offense.

Observe, watch...

If his foot goes way into his mouth where it's coming out the other end of his body, lights out.

And, pay attention to body language.

[Treasa]

I think for as many men there are that uses "PUA" theres just as many women who play hard to get, act unavailable, makes the man chase them and so forth. That's kinda like pua in reverse(or something)

 

If a man makes the woman "prove" herself to him. Then it's "stupid"... But women do it all the time to men don't they?

 

If a man posted here asking what to avoid, I'd happily tell him. I think some people are getting defensive when there's no malice or accusation aimed at them. It's confusing.

[tbf]

I just can't buy that PUA is so widespread that people need to like, be aware and watchful for it. I've never met a single person outside of the internet who even knows what it is. Most people who are on this board probably never even heard about it UNTIL LS. Most of the "PUA" **** I have read about on LS is stuff that some guys have been doing since the beginning of time, except now it has a name. I've never felt like I was being the target of a "PUA"--I feel like this is something that exists in OLD and not real world interactions that didn't start on the internet.

 

I think people are paranoid about being the "victim" of PUA. Some of the examples I've seen here "hmm I don't know if we would get along" or "what would your best friends say about you, good and bad" do not sound like anything suspect/special to me. I mean maybe you WOULDN'T get along and he really IS thinking that? And asking what people think about you...isn't that pretty common...? How would your best friend describe you and all that. IDK I just can't buy that a significant portion of the male population even knows what PUA is let alone employs it on the reg.

Yup, it's so unknown that there was a TV series on it that lasted for two seasons, where PUA is all over the Internet, PUA clips in profusion on youtube.

 

Now if you've never been hit on by a PUA, it would make sense that you wouldn't know they existed. Unfortunately, some of us have and wish to discuss it so other women become more aware of how it works.

[fortyninethousand322]

If you're engaging a girl on the regular, and she's super responsive and makes it clear she's into you, and then you go out on a date, and you tell her how into her you are and how you can't wait to see her again, and then the next day and for a couple days after, completely flip the script and stop contacting her like you have been for weeks, intentionally withdrawing (pulling) to test her interest level and make her feel insecure and make her chase you?

 

That's f*cked up. That's not "going with the flow." And this intentional withholding of contact from a woman who's clearly into you *is* a PUA tactic.

 

Mirroring someone's interest level isn't manipulative. The above most certainly is.

 

If I may, at the risk of sounding argumentative, I would like to point out that many women have complained on this forum (and in real life) that the man they're dating is too needy or clingy.

 

Going from texting everyday to less often, might be a way to not be a clingy person. Often people are doomed if they do, doomed if they don't...

[kaylan]

 

"I'm not convinced I should go out with you."

 

"Let's see if you can impress me."

 

"Tell me a story; show me what you've got."

 

All hoop theory/negging, designed to break down a woman and make her prove herself to a man who's approaching her and trying to get her attracted. It's twisted.

Ive said similar things LONG before I EVER heard about PUA stuff. I do it to be playful and yes because I think a girl should show me what shes got. Dating isnt all about the guy being good enough. Remember who holds the keys to commitment. Its usually the guy, and the more selective guys want more than a pretty face.

 

Even if I the one initially showing interest in a girl, I want her to show me what shes about. Cus its possible shes not my type once I get past her looks. Looks draws me in, but it wont keep me.

Edited August 7, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Treasa]

Originally Posted by kaylan

If youre on typical scammy PUA sites that try to sell guys books and courses, than those guys are full of crap. By the sounds of it, thats where you get your info.

 

My reply: "Her original post was asking what PUA techniques were. I assume in an effort to know what to avoid?

 

I didn't get the feeling that she came here to bash men, but rather to get more information. She asked people in the beginning to stay on topic.

 

And I like you both just fine."

Edited August 7, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Star Gazer]

You cant avoid them, because PUA tactics are just labels for things men who are naturally good with women do.

 

I absolutely can avoid the men who use them. A neg? Hoop theory? He gets punted, immediately. Men who are innately good with women don't have to use BS tactics.

[kaylan]

I absolutely can avoid the men who use them. A neg? Hoop theory? He gets punted, immediately. Men who are innately good with women don't have to use BS tactics.

You arent understanding what Im saying. Men who are innately good with women is what PUA tactics are based on. PUA tactics takes the behavior of "the naturals" and applies labels and theory to it. Thats all.

 

So you CANT completely avoid anything that seems like PUA stuff. Because much of PUA stuff is labeled common sense and common dating interaction.

[Treasa]

Kaylan, since you've been on the "bad" sites, what are techniques that women should avoid?

Edited August 7, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[sillyanswer]

Again, since you have some trouble understanding what I am saying, not every guy interprets push pull the same way.

 

Some men use it to throw a girl for a loop, while other guys use it just to shadow the interest level of the female they had been pursuing.

 

Comprende?

 

From this little exchange of posts it sounds to me like there are two separate "techniques" that (at least in this thread) are being called "push/pull". Have I got that right? No wonder it's confusing!

[Divasu]

And that's why it doesn't work in the long-term. It only gets you laid.

 

But, isn't that the end goal for those who 'use' it?

I'm sure others don't use it for that specific goal, but, the ones that do kinda ruin it for those who don't.

[Treasa]

I won't call you a name. I will say it just feeds my martyr's/victim's complex.

 

I know you can't take my dating opinions seriously, however, I'm exactly the kind of guy that PUA markets to. I'm exactly the type that would use it, and I'm exactly the kind it appeals to. So take my thoughts with a grain of salt, but I guarantee you my perspective is much more useful that that of a guy who gets dates on the regular.

 

If you want advice on being a bench warmer, you don't ask an All-Star...

 

Has anything worked or definitely not worked for you? Has anything made you feel kind of gross for doing it?

[kaylan]

If I'm gonna be your secretary, you're gonna pay me upfront.

 

In my humble opinion, people are feeling threatened and defensive and lashing out. I don't think any single person on this thread is a bad person. But this is seriously getting out of hand.

 

Kaylan, since you've been on the "bad" sites, what are techniques that women should avoid?

I cant really advise anyone to try and avoid techniques....because what may be seen as a practiced technique, might actually be someones natural way of behaving. Because as I said, PUA stuff is based on the behavior of men who are naturally good with women.

 

All I can say is women should lightly bring up certain dating topics and see how guys respond to it in order to see if they have any resentment towards women. Because as I also said, many dudes who follow PUA stuff have bitter attitudes towards women.

 

Thats what a girl needs to look out for. Dont watch out for techniques....watch out for a guys overall mindset and attitude towards females.

[dasein]

 

"I'm not convinced I should go out with you."

 

"Let's see if you can impress me."

 

"Tell me a story; show me what you've got."

 

All hoop theory/negging, designed to break down a woman and make her prove herself to a man who's approaching her and trying to get her attracted. It's twisted.

 

:lmao: If that kind of stuff can "break down" a woman, then that's not much of a woman is it? Such a gal likely finds herself "falling on dicks" left and right, not the man's problem, but hers.

 

Some of ya'll make it seem like PUAs are prowling the halls of the mental retardation home not bars and clubs full of worldly, street savvy women. Not a very good opinion of women generally if they are that easily manipulated. My opinion of them is much higher. They want to do and feel something to start with, they want a man who can lead them to it, just like they want a man to lead dancing. I facilitate that... with their eager participation. Everyone gets what they want. Happy ending.

[tbf]

But, isn't that the end goal for those who 'use' it?

I'm sure others don't use it for that specific goal, but, the ones that do kinda ruin it for those who don't.

PUA is called Pick up artistry for a reason. It wasn't created for relationship focused men. It was created to maximize one night stands.

 

If guys have used it for other reasons, it doesn't change the initial concept of it being nothing more than tactics to get women in bed.