Outing PUA tactics!

[Star Gazer]

But, isn't that the end goal for those who 'use' it?

 

Actually, I don't think so.

 

I think the men who rely on PUA want more than a piece of arse. They are deeply insecure and more than anything else in the world want to find love and be loved by a woman... but they play these games which backfire when the opposite of their affections finds a real man who's capable of sincere genuine affection, and then they become bitter, etc., etc., and the cycle continues.

[Treasa]

I cant really advise anyone to try and avoid techniques....because what may be seen as a practiced technique, might actually be someones natural way of behaving. Because as I said, PUA stuff is based on the behavior of men who are naturally good with women.

 

All I can say is women should lightly bring up certain dating topics and see how guys respond to it in order to see if they have any resentment towards women. Because as I also said, many dudes who follow PUA stuff have bitter attitudes towards women.

 

Thats what a girl needs to look out for. Dont watch out for techniques....watch out for a guys overall mindset and attitude towards females.

 

So, basically observe and don't rush into things?

[Divasu]

PUA is called Pick up artistry for a reason. It wasn't created for relationship focused men. It was created to maximize one night stands.

 

If guys have used it for other reasons, it doesn't change the initial concept of it being nothing more than tactics to get women in bed.

 

That was/is my impression as well. It is defined as:

Pickup artist, a man devoted to finding, attracting, and seducing women as a recreation

[kaylan]

From this little exchange of posts it sounds to me like there are two separate "techniques" that (at least in this thread) are being called "push/pull". Have I got that right? No wonder it's confusing!

Its not necessarily that the techniques are separate. Its just that guys in the PUA community generally bicker over several terms. Some guys argue over what it means to be alpha, while others over what makes a woman a quality chick.

[fortyninethousand322]

Has anything worked or definitely not worked for you? Has anything made you feel kind of gross for doing it?

 

As far as PUA? I don't use it. Actually, I've read some of the stuff and I really don't understand how to use it. So aside from reading some things online 6-7 years ago, I never bothered with it. Sort of like my brief attempt at learning C++.

 

I've only gone on dates with 3 women in my life. One was the "hands" girl who I met in one of my college classes about 5 years ago. The other two were from Okcupid. So, nothing really has reliably worked for me. Being my genuine self has not been very lucrative.

[joystickd]

Actually, I don't think so.

 

I think the men who rely on PUA want more than a piece of arse. They are deeply insecure and more than anything else in the world want to find love and be loved by a woman... but they play these games which backfire when the opposite of their affections finds a real man who's capable of sincere genuine affection, and then they become bitter, etc., etc., and the cycle continues.

You think but do you actually know. Funny thing is if you actually got on and read many of these forums most guys want relationships. Like: Oh there is this one women I know..............

 

Most learn PUA for that one girl

[Treasa]

As far as PUA? I don't use it. Actually, I've read some of the stuff and I really don't understand how to use it. So aside from reading some things online 6-7 years ago, I never bothered with it. Sort of like my brief attempt at learning C++.

 

I've only gone on dates with 3 women in my life. One was the "hands" girl who I met in one of my college classes about 5 years ago. The other two were from Okcupid. So, nothing really has reliably worked for me. Being my genuine self has not been very lucrative.

 

It's their problem, not yours. And you CANNOT prove me wrong, so there!

 

I also had a brief attempt with C++. Ugh...

 

I think your genuine self is fine.

 

I think part of the disconnect in this thread is the definition of PUA. Some people see it as a way to manipulate women into taking off their panties, and others see it as a way to get men the confidence to approach women. No wonder there's so much conflict!

 

If we were to assume one definition or another, this would probably go more smoothly.

[Anela]

:lmao: If that kind of stuff can "break down" a woman, then that's not much of a woman is it? Such a gal likely finds herself "falling on dicks" left and right, not the man's problem, but hers.

 

Some of ya'll make it seem like PUAs are prowling the halls of the mental retardation home not bars and clubs full of worldly, street savvy women. Not a very good opinion of women generally if they are that easily manipulated. My opinion of them is much higher. They want to do and feel something to start with, they want a man who can lead them to it, just like they want a man to lead dancing. I facilitate that... with their eager participation. Everyone gets what they want. Happy ending.

 

I didn't fall on anyone's dick. He knew that I liked him, knew that I was in a very vulnerable place, and took advantage of that - he hadn't been involved with anyone for years, and lost his live-in girlfriend (that, it turned out, he was still pining for, because she was so sweet and gorgeous - the trophy) -he lost the girlfriend due to his jealousy, breaking up with her before she could break his heart. Then he became angry at the world - after having a physical relationship, and being rejected by her (she liked sleeping around), and I stumbled into him when he seemed to be better than he actually was.

 

If I'd not been so isolated, it would never have worked on me.

[tbf]

That was/is my impression as well. It is defined as:

Pickup artist, a man devoted to finding, attracting, and seducing women as a recreation

That's what it was created for. So if guys are using it for other reasons, it doesn't change the base premise of the techniques.

 

Analogous would be to say that rifles aren't dangerous to children, so they don't need to be locked away if you only use them as shovels.

[white]

Stargazer wants points on the OP but I think the thread has revealed a truth; to avoid PUA trickery is to avoid things that most of the women in the thread have validated as good practice and somehow not PUA trickery but actually natural (merely another form of saying "normal", with a blissful ignorance on their part of the fallacy of the concept of "normality" in human behaviour, but I'm done trying to explain that little bit of horizon-broadening).

 

So in fact what Stargazer apparently wants is how to avoid advanced and manipulative (by her definition, since essentially any flirting at all is manipulation) PUA trickery that to me seems pretty god damn obvious anyway, because it's freaky deaky. None of what you people are explaining they do is anything like your average man's behaviour or conversation. It's goddamn weird and it's obviously weird too.

 

So Stargazer, you want to know how to detect PUA tactics? Are they asking stupidass crap and spinning dodgy sounding spiders webs with their conversation? Then it's PUA tricks. If a woman came at me with any of this wank I'd laugh all the way home to my sofa alone.

[veggirl]

If PUA is so wide spread and well-known, and such a horrible thing, then how are women STILL "manipulated" by it. If the whole wide world knows what PUA is then what excuse is there to not see the signs and just walk away?

[fortyninethousand322]

It's their problem, not yours. And you CANNOT prove me wrong, so there!

 

I also had a brief attempt with C++. Ugh...

 

I think your genuine self is fine.

 

I think part of the disconnect in this thread is the definition of PUA. Some people see it as a way to manipulate women into taking off their panties, and others see it as a way to get men the confidence to approach women. No wonder there's so much conflict!

 

If we were to assume one definition or another, this would probably go more smoothly.

 

Well, like I said, PUA is an answer. It's not a very good answer, but for some guys a bad answer is better than no answer. And, honestly, most humans prefer to have a bad answer to any problem they're having over no answer at all. Just look at how long bloodletting was used as a medical treatment. Arsenic and mercury were both used orally to treat ailments.

 

So I can't totally hate on PUA as an industry. Until something better comes along, that's exactly what many people will turn to.

[Star Gazer]

So in fact what Stargazer apparently wants is how to avoid advanced and manipulative (by her definition, since essentially any flirting at all is manipulation) PUA trickery that to me seems pretty god damn obvious anyway, because it's freaky deaky. None of what you people are explaining they do is anything like your average man's behaviour or conversation. It's goddamn weird and it's obviously weird too.

 

So Stargazer, you want to know how to detect PUA tactics?

 

Negging, hoop theory, and intentional push/pull are pretty damn obvious and freaky deaky?

[Treasa]

Well, like I said, PUA is an answer. It's not a very good answer, but for some guys a bad answer is better than no answer. And, honestly, most humans prefer to have a bad answer to any problem they're having over no answer at all. Just look at how long bloodletting was used as a medical treatment. Arsenic and mercury were both used orally to treat ailments.

 

So I can't totally hate on PUA as an industry. Until something better comes along, that's exactly what many people will turn to.

 

Yes, which is why I wish I could honestly help other people. I can preach until I'm blue in the face (and often I do ) but it won't change anything unless that person wants to change his/her way of thinking or behaving.

 

I guess we'll just have to keep giving good advice and hope that it sticks over the gimmicky stuff.

[tbf]

If PUA is so wide spread and well-known, and such a horrible thing, then how are women STILL "manipulated" by it. If the whole wide world knows what PUA is then what excuse is there to not see the signs and just walk away?

It's a pop culture thing, where I hadn't paid attention to much pop culture while married. So once I figured it out, started learning more about and realized how crazy it was.

 

It's a good thing for other women to learn about and watch for.

[joystickd]

All I'm doing is asking questions about identifying PUA tactics. Can you help answer those questions? Can you?

Fast Seduction 101 - Pick Up Artist Forum - PUA Training

start here then. There is a lot you actually have to read other than this to know. If the problem with PUA is manipulation then looks should be an issue or the promise of sex. Women use that to manipulate. PUA when you actually read and research is to just get into the game. Men that have trouble with women are basically kind of benched. Most men want relationships PUA is just a start but some people like just starts. In all actuality this thread is unnecessary because there are very few actual men into PUA. I went through a bad time and checked it out and hated most of it but love the male self improvement aspects of it.

[Star Gazer]

That's not what you said earlier. You said they were things that men who are already naturals with women do, simply with a label attached.

 

Exactly. He equated his alleged natural suaveness and being good with women as being the very same thing as PUA.

[kaylan]

That's not what you said earlier. You said they were things that men who are already naturals with women do, simply with a label attached.

And men who are naturals with women tend to sleep around. How have I contradicted what I said. Pickup is mostly about dating around and getting laid. And pickup throws labels on the behavior of men who are natural at getting laid.

 

Wheres the contradiction?

[veggirl]

And now the PUA who I disagree with about his dating tactics attacks my professional integrity!!! It never ends.

 

If Kaylan is a PUA then you ladies have nothing to worry about because he is pretty straight forward and seems very legit. If he is a PUA then they actually seem like pretty honest dudes!

[fortyninethousand322]

Thing is, if someone is receptive to "PUA tactics" then that simply means that's how they prefer men act in the first place.

 

Revealed preference. It's a useful thing to learn about.

[kaylan]

If Kaylan is a PUA then you ladies have nothing to worry about because he is pretty straight forward and seems very legit. If he is a PUA then they actually seem like pretty honest dudes!

lmaoooo:lmao:

 

Oh lord, if I was a PUA. Imagine that reality show. So much better than that Mystery jerk off.

[Star Gazer]

If Kaylan is a PUA then you ladies have nothing to worry about because he is pretty straight forward and seems very legit. If he is a PUA then they actually seem like pretty honest dudes!

 

That's the funniest thing I've read on here in a long, long time! Thanks for the laugh! :lmao:

[kaylan]

Exactly. He equated his alleged natural suaveness and being good with women as being the very same thing as PUA.

I never said I was naturally suave. I merely said that some of the things pickup artists learn to do, I have done in the past. Stuff like chop busting or telling a girl to prove herself to me (in jest), are all small little things Ive done. I never said this made me a freaking casanova. Jeez.

[Drseussgrrl]

And men who are naturals with women tend to sleep around. How have I contradicted what I said. Pickup is mostly about dating around and getting laid. And pickup throws labels on the behavior of men who are natural at getting laid.

 

Wheres the contradiction?

 

That just proves what we've been saying, though. PUA doesn't work on quality women. Just women who are easily fooled into your bed.

[dasein]

Just out of curiosity, are any of you dudes defending PUA in satisfying relationships? If not, when was the last time you were?

 

Not now by choice (an important distinction), but whenever I want to be. As someone who does not want marriage or kids ever, my definition of "satisfying relationship" is likely much different from most womens' definition.

 

But once I started working on seduction skills, and tossing out bad formative advice, my life with women got much much happier due to having at least equal control in relationships. In younger days, was the picture of dating and relationship incompetence like many men here, and many men who turn to PUA, constantly getting blown off, placeholdered, backburnered, upgraded, GIGSed, used... no more. Not in a long time. I don't have to call all the shots, just a fair 50%.