Outing PUA tactics!

[Star Gazer]

That just proves what we've been saying, though. PUA doesn't work on quality women. Just women who are easily fooled into your bed.

 

It can confuse them; lord knows, it did me in January!

 

("What's this about him telling me I need to tell him a story, and make him want to take me out? Hmm, I don't understand...")

[fortyninethousand322]

That just proves what we've been saying, though. PUA doesn't work on quality women. Just women who are easily fooled into your bed.

 

Value is subjective.

 

Basic rule of praxeology.

[kaylan]

That just proves what we've been saying, though. PUA doesn't work on quality women. Just women who are easily fooled into your bed.

Yeah, because quality women NEVER have casual sex. Do you consider yourself quality? And havent you had a good bit of casual sex and even with a random couple in a bar?

 

Dont pick and choose logic. PUA stuff is about dating around and getting laid. And all kinds of people date around and get laid, not just low quality folks.

[kaylan]

Sure I've had casual sex. It wasn't with anyone using lame-azz crap like PUA, though. I was horny, not stupid.

Thats the thing, you wouldnt even know if they were doing PUA stuff if they were good at it. Because a natural is just natural, and the guys whos good at using PUA (which is based on the naturals) wouldnt have a girl thinking hes anything but natural.

 

Based on your logic, quality women dont fall for PUA stuff, but they slut around though huh?

[Imported]

Exactly. He equated his alleged natural suaveness and being good with women as being the very same thing as PUA.

 

Along with the silly "tactics" of.......PUA, are some very useful "tactics" that every guy should know, understand the feedback and react to appropriately. It's very basic things. Some guys learn it "naturally" through life and some guys have had their head in a hole and don't know a damn thing about it. There is actually not really that much to know though and the majority of it is fluff trying to convince the guy to leave the nest or the water is fine.

[white]

Negging, hoop theory, and intentional push/pull are pretty damn obvious and freaky deaky?

 

I'm still not 100% on what they are.

 

Let me explain. If I'm on a date, I'm excited. I'm warm. I'm doing my best to be charming and funny, and I'm listening to what she has to say, and remembering it, and relating to it if I can, and noting how much we have in common. I'm talking a load of old toss about my childhood or why I work in my sector or how awesome chilli peanuts are. I'm telling her I like her shoes or her brooch or whatever. I'm asking how her [whatever] went last weekend because I want to hear it went well and she's happy. It's really very straightforward. There's no games. I don't have the speed of thought to play them while all that is going on, and I'm at the place in life where I don't want to because I only want relationships and I only want someone who wants one with me, as I really am.

 

Now maybe your dates are different. Maybe because you're apparently a professional dater you've developed the speed of thought to play games and you expect them in return. Maybe you date the wrong goddamn men who always try to pull ****. If so, it's all the same point: your date starts pulling tricks like that out, negging, hoops, push/pull, that isn't natural. It's forced. A guy says "Why should I date you"? That's a weird thing to say, OK. Or "Oh you like action movies? I don't like action movies, they really suck". That's weird, that's a weird thing to say and do on a date, a sour note right? A guy sets about (if I understand this push/pull thing right) saying things that make you anxious? Why the **** would you do that to your date? That too is weird. Not sure about hoop theory, but I'll put money on it being a weird thing to crowbar into a date.

 

Because these are all funny little tricks. They're games. They don't have any place in a dating situation where everyone's supposed to be interested, happy, excited, where you're stumbling over each other to tell **** jokes, **** stories, the lame **** you're into, the crap TV you watch, how nice it'd be to go for a **** walk on the **** beach, etcetera. It's supposed to be an amateur experience. These tricks are all professional, polished moves. They stand out like a sore thumb.

 

Perhaps your problem is you've spent too long serially dating in a world of serial daters, it's become too smooth and rote, and you lost touch with the tentative, chaotic nature of dating for the rest of the world to the extent you can't spot a game being played because it's all become a game to you.

[dasein]

PUA is called Pick up artistry for a reason. It wasn't created for relationship focused men. It was created to maximize one night stands.

 

If guys have used it for other reasons, it doesn't change the initial concept of it being nothing more than tactics to get women in bed.

 

It was called "Speed Seduction" before PUA. Before that it was simply called "Seduction," before that it was called "Byron, Coleridge and Shelley," and before that it was called, "come here, you!" I prefer the more recent appellation to "come here, you!" perhaps you don't agree.

 

And interesting logic about the original concept being necessarily what it evolved into. Most men who are PUA customers want GFs, wives, just to be able to talk to a woman without being laughed at, at least as much as sex. Claiming otherwise is just as sexist as saying "Women who wear makeup are all the same and all want the exact same things. No woman wants to wear makeup to boost her self esteem or feel feminine, they wear it only to attract men because that's how makeup got its start."

[Star Gazer]

Perhaps your problem is you've spent too long serially dating in a world of serial daters, it's become too smooth and rote, and you lost touch with the tentative, chaotic nature of dating for the rest of the world to the extent you can't spot a game being played because it's all become a game to you.

 

Nah. The guy from January-March was the first guy I encountered to do the PUA thing, and the most recent guy was the second. The first guy, I didn't recognize his behavior as PUA at all until it was pointed out to me, at which point I read some forums and other things to familiarize myself with it. Hadn't thought about it again until just today, when a guy negged and then tried to hoop theory me.

 

I wanted to see what other tactics are out there that I could recognize in the future, and thus avoid that guy.

[dasein]

I didn't fall on anyone's dick. He knew that I liked him, knew that I was in a very vulnerable place, and took advantage of that - he hadn't been involved with anyone for years, and lost his live-in girlfriend (that, it turned out, he was still pining for, because she was so sweet and gorgeous - the trophy) -he lost the girlfriend due to his jealousy, breaking up with her before she could break his heart. Then he became angry at the world - after having a physical relationship, and being rejected by her (she liked sleeping around), and I stumbled into him when he seemed to be better than he actually was.

 

If I'd not been so isolated, it would never have worked on me.

 

Ok, fair enough, but that doesn't sound like any kind of PUA stuff you are describing, just bad behavior from a bad bet of a man. I don't see the connection to any PUA techniques there, and in fact, there are all kinds of manipulative people in the world who don't even know what PUA is. Another problem I have with threads like this is they lump all bad behavior into "PUA." Just like way too many rejections were necessarily at the hands of a "player."

[joystickd]

Don't you find it interesting that PUA's demographic, is to help 'nice' guys?

 

Is it possible said demographic was scammed by the very person pretending to want to help them?

 

Like attracts like, eh?

No. Let's be honest here women are confusing to men. I want a nice guy but I don't like him he is too nice. I want a smart man but no I don't want the nerd. This goes on and on. Men are like WTF!!! Then you got the time wasters and cock teases. You got women you meet and they just want to be friends. Men that go through all of this will turn to this because they want women that want them. PUA in a sense give their confidence back after having it destroyed or not having it at all. I laugh at threads like this because in a few years PUA will be like extinct. Guys like David X, Alan Roger Currie, Tariq Nasheed, Player Supreme and David Deida will be the ones to go to

[joystickd]

Check this out

[joystickd]

Yeah he probably thinks my bf is some poor sap I "settled" on because I was "tired of sleeping around."

 

Heaven forbid two people just meet and click.

No I think he was just making a point. Women do after having their run with the "bad boys" settle for a nice guy not all but some

[tbf]

Kezia Noble had the added advantage that she's actually pretty hot, so that got guys to come to her seminars. Her advice comes from the whole "natural game" thing, she used to work with Gambler.

I watched three clip. Quite fascinating and truly eye opining. Thanks for the suggestion.

[ThaWholigan]

I watched three clip. Quite fascinating and truly eye opining. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

Yes, I thought so when I watched her clips.

[tbf]

Yes, I thought so when I watched her clips.

Must admit I not only recognized the techniques being suggested (even from you ) but also the initial behaviours being expressed.

 

The approach was quite human and more about social dynamics than pick up.

[joystickd]

Must admit I not only recognized the techniques being suggested (even from you ) but also the initial behaviours being expressed.

 

The approach was quite human and more about social dynamics than pick up.

The pickup that most women think about isn't even being used anymore. It's a more natural approach being used. Learning about meeting women and using these tools is like Star Wars. You could learn it and be a Jedi or become a Sith Lord.

[Robert]

This thread is 6 hours old and has 179 deleted posts.

 

It's time you ALL pay attention to the words coming off your keyboard or expect a vacation from posting.

 

Any insults posted will be met with an equal infraction and please keep the posts on topic.

 

Carry On

[New User]

Either way its just like you are PUA. You are trying to come up with a logical response. Have you ever really considered the crap men actually have to put up with when it comes to women? When one considers that PUA isn't really that bad. Hell only a small amount of people actually use it lol. You are only trying to protect yourself from like 1-5% of males

 

I'd be very surprised if the percentage is that high- speaking in terms of those that actually try to live that lifestyle. If you're speaking in terms of guys unknowingly using techniques that could be considered PUA- I suspect that would be closer to 100% than 5%. I agree with whoever said that PUA seems to amount as much to labeling and attempting to dissect common flirtation techniques as anything else. Good? Bad? or indifferent?.... That depends more on whoever is trying to run game than anything else.

 

As to the original intent of the thread (Sorry, this post is as far as I got) I have to believe that intuition/gut feelings/whatever you wanna call it is going to be the surest safeguard against falling for a guy who isn't being genuine. I think that if you feel you have to raise the anti-PUA shields and analyze everything that a guy does when he's expressing interest in you, you're going to focus on the paper and miss the poem. Men generally want to be with women and women generally want to be with men- I don't think this site would exist (nor for that matter would the human race) if this weren't the case. A man wanting to learn how to be successful with women isn't a bad thing. It only becomes a bad thing when he allows his life to be completely taken over by thoughts of how he can get with as many women as possible with no regard for their value as people; when he views them as objects to be won and discarded on a whim. I honestly don't think that any of the men posting in here fall into that category.

 

Nonetheless, the gender divide in this thread is interesting- the borderline hysteria that surfaced a few times was too. I originally thought that it was a silly subject for a thread here, but it was an interesting read- at least as far as I got. Maybe I'll go back and see if any other interesting points were brought out concerning gender differences on the subject.

[William]

I'd like to congratulate Robert for being quite lenient in handing out disciplinary action in this thread. Hence, considering the amount of time we spent processing it, 45 minutes on my part, each non-conforming posting will be met with an appropriate infraction, without regard to quantity. For those members who can choose to remain on-topic and not engage those who can't make such a choice, this can continue to be a lively debate. Good evening.

[dasein]

I think that if you feel you have to raise the anti-PUA shields and analyze everything that a guy does when he's expressing interest in you, you're going to focus on the paper and miss the poem.

 

Also, ironically, this makes one more susceptible to influence IME, not just in women, but in lots of aspects of life. People who are intent on minutiae are vulnerable to a Mack Truck coming in the side door. Some guy is the very opposite of a dreaded PUA in demeanor... and has a cute puppy with him. Ohoh

 

Fact is that whatever PUA is or isn't, the list of various "PUA" techniques is a tiny fractional subset of the ways men have been seducing women for thousands of years. There's literally no way to catalogue all of it or apply acronyms or code words to it.

 

Ladies would you rather have the whiny guy who gets you in bed to "cuddle" then paws for hours until you give in or leave pissed off? PUAs don't do that but lots of men do.

 

Would you rather have the guy who tries to get you to have just one more martini near closing time? PUAs don't do that but lots of men do.

 

Or the guy who tells a heartwrenching story of loss of some type and then starts crying? PUAs don't do that, but lots of men do.

 

How bout the guy who starts off as a dear sweet friend and then professes love and adoration while you sit there red-faced and annoyed? PUAs don't do that, but lots of men do.

 

Could go on and on. Lots of average men do all sorts of cheezy things to get with women, and they work. If folks are honest, women in the thread will admit some kind of cheese has worked on them in the past. Most of those day to day craptastic seduction techniques, booze, begging, pity, friends in a moment of vulnerability, etc., are signs of a less than man, an average dude, not some "PUA." Do you want a "wedding crasher?" or a man who signals straight up what he's about by a "technique" anyone can spot?

 

If someone wants to avoid being seduced, don't be seduced. The best advice is not to get involved or in bed with people who are strangers, and "strangers" is a category that lasts much longer than people behave as today. If you don't want to get burnt, don't put your hand on the stove.

 

If, however, you want to be seduced, and we know that you do want that from time to time, don't bother denying, at least have the self-possession to get with someone who is good at it, not some pawing, whiny clown or guy with a puppy. Puhleeze.

[mesmerized]

lol the reality is most of the time, we are the ones seducing men anyway but let them THINK it's them who are seducing us, works better for us. Hate to break it to you but women often know if they want to sleep with a guy sooner than later, but we let the guy do his lame seduction dance anyway. It has two advantages for us, one we won't have to be the initiators and thus judged for it, second let's face it, it's fun to see them try specially when they make a fool out of themselves.

[kaylan]

lol the reality is most of the time, we are the ones seducing men anyway but let them THINK it's them who are seducing us, works better for us. Hate to break it to you but women often know if they want to sleep with a guy sooner than later, but we let the guy do his lame seduction dance anyway. It has two advantages for us, one we won't have to be the initiators and thus judged for it, second let's face it, it's fun to see them try specially when they make a fool out of themselves.

I wish more girls seduced me

[tbf]

The pickup that most women think about isn't even being used anymore. It's a more natural approach being used. Learning about meeting women and using these tools is like Star Wars. You could learn it and be a Jedi or become a Sith Lord.

Actually, it is still being used. You can observe its usage on LS and from the sounds of it, quite rampantly on Internet dating sites.

 

So this thread is good for raising PUA awareness to women, for the Star Wars PUAs.

[mesmerized]

I wish more girls seduced me

 

haha, just put yourself out there. Happens more often than you think.

[dasein]

lol the reality is most of the time, we are the ones seducing men anyway but let them THINK it's them who are seducing us, works better for us. Hate to break it to you but women often know if they want to sleep with a guy sooner than later, but we let the guy do his lame seduction dance anyway. It has two advantages for us, one we won't have to be the initiators and thus judged for it, second let's face it, it's fun to see them try specially when they make a fool out of themselves.

 

I see, so the above looks more purely manipulative and flat out cruel than any PUA technique mentioned in the thread. If that's how lots of women really feel, what conclusions do you expect men to draw from it? and how seriously should we take female complaints about PUA? You sure you want to stick with that? I know you aren't just teasing, so don't try to back out that way.