Outing PUA tactics!

[kaylan]

haha, just put yourself out there. Happens more often than you think.

Actually there is a girl now whos been trying to entice me, but Im not really feeling it. =\

 

So let me amend my previous statement: I wish more girls I wanted would seduce me.

 

lolz

[Star Gazer]

Actually, it is still being used. You can observe its usage on LS and from the sounds of it, quite rampantly on Internet dating sites.

 

So this thread is good for raising PUA awareness to women, for the Star Wars PUAs.

 

Indeed it is. When people are actually able to comment on the subject of the thread, it's very helpful for PUA awareness.

[fortyninethousand322]

Another dead giveaway that someone might be into PUA is if they belong to a group that is likely to be susceptible to PUA marketing...

[Star Gazer]

Another dead giveaway that someone might be into PUA is if they belong to a group that is likely to be susceptible to PUA marketing...

 

Such as...?

[mesmerized]

I see, so the above looks more purely manipulative and flat out cruel than any PUA technique mentioned in the thread. If that's how lots of women really feel, what conclusions do you expect men to draw from it? and how seriously should we take female complaints about PUA? You sure you want to stick with that? I know you aren't just teasing, so don't try to back out that way.

 

Maybe I'd agree with you about it being "cruel" if men didn't tend to be judgmental about a woman who is honest about her feelings/sexuality. But guess what? you yourself would go label the woman as "impulsive" or tons of other crap because obviously in your head you just don't see yourself as worthy enough for a woman to want to sleep with you without you using any of your special tricks on her.

 

In any case, there is nothing "cruel" about this. You want to sleep with us and given you have this huge ego that needs to be stroked constantly, you like to think you "seduced" us and "achieved" something. women let you think that and you're all happy at the end. I can see how someone like you can see that as "manipulation" but it's a kind that doesn't hurt anybody, unlike some of the PUA techniques.

[fortyninethousand322]

Such as...?

 

Late bloomers, people who just got out of miserable sexless marriages, most college students.

[kaylan]

Maybe I'd agree with you about it being "cruel" if men didn't tend to be judgmental about a woman who is honest about her feelings/sexuality. But guess what? you yourself would go label the woman as "impulsive" or tons of other crap because obviously in your head you just don't see yourself as worthy enough for a woman to want to sleep with you without you using any of your special tricks on her.

 

In any case, there is nothing "cruel" about this. You want to sleep with us and given you have this huge ego that needs to be stroked constantly, you like to think you "seduced" us and "achieved" something. women let you think that and you're all happy at the end. I can see how someone like you can see that as "manipulation" but it's a kind that doesn't hurt anybody, unlike some of the PUA techniques.

How do you know we arent doing the same thing....just letting you ladies think youre taking the lead...

 

[mesmerized]

How do you know we arent doing the same thing....just letting you ladies think youre taking the lead...

 

DUN DUN DUN !!!!!!!

 

Sometimes that is the case too.

[dasein]

@mesmerized Taking pleasure in seeing others look like a fool is the very definition of cruelty. No one talking about any PUA techniques in the thread has suggested that as some "fringe benefit," fun, or desired outcome of PUA. You did though.

 

Moreover, if many women share your attitude, you have validated every single method of PUA listed. If the male "mating dance" is just a facade for female benefit, what do you care what form it takes? To take pleasure in seeing people make fools of themself? You've already decided whether or not to sleep with the guy. That's what you said after all. Blameshift failed and not responded to btw. Doesn't work.

Edited August 7, 2013 by dasein

[ThaWholigan]

Maybe I'd agree with you about it being "cruel" if men didn't tend to be judgmental about a woman who is honest about her feelings/sexuality. But guess what? you yourself would go label the woman as "impulsive" or tons of other crap because obviously in your head you just don't see yourself as worthy enough for a woman to want to sleep with you without you using any of your special tricks on her.

 

In any case, there is nothing "cruel" about this. You want to sleep with us and given you have this huge ego that needs to be stroked constantly, you like to think you "seduced" us and "achieved" something. women let you think that and you're all happy at the end. I can see how someone like you can see that as "manipulation" but it's a kind that doesn't hurt anybody, unlike some of the PUA techniques.

That's the main problem with seduction and manipulation - a grey area.

[Anela]

Late bloomers, people who just got out of miserable sexless marriages, most college students.

 

But turning around and using them on women, who are most likely not doing so well themselves (those it usually works on, or those who are incapacitated by alcohol, as far as I know), doesn't do anybody any good in the end. The women are hurt, and the men - a lot of them - seem to end up being disappointed that the tactics work, and lose respect for women for that reason. Which sucks. Many don't think to lose respect for themselves.

 

Which is why some of us want to be on guard against this type of thing: we have to protect ourselves. And I don't want to be involved with a man who expresses such hatred against women - which they usually do, calling them sluts, and judging them for the same behaviour that they want to indulge in. They want us to have sex with them, and then expect us to turn them down, if we want to be respected.

 

I did actually realize that my being so on guard, might lose me a chance to know someone who was just really nervous, and trying to use them in order to get to know me, but there are a lot out there who are of the more sleazy variety. They hate women in general, and want payback for feeling so hurt and rejected.

 

(I'm sorry if any of my posts were off-topic earlier on. I did my best to stay on topic.)

[mesmerized]

@mesmerized Taking pleasure in seeing others look like a fool is the very definition of cruelty. No one talking about any PUA techniques in the thread has suggested that as some "fringe benefit" or desired outcome of PUA. You did though.

 

Moreover, if many women share your attitude, you have validated every single method of PUA listed. If the male "mating dance" is just a facade for female benefit, what do you care what form it takes? To take pleasure in seeing people make fools of themself? You've already decided whether or not to sleep with the guy. That's what you said after all. Blameshift failed and not responded to btw. Doesn't work.

 

First, I said "most of the time", not every single time. Second, If the male dance to seduce the woman is harmless and free of deceit, I have no problem with that, never said I did. There are certain PUA techniques I have problem with because they harm women in short and long term.

[fortyninethousand322]

But turning around and using them on women, who are most likely not doing so well themselves (those it usually works on, or those who are incapacitated by alcohol, as far as I know), doesn't do anybody any good in the end. The women are hurt, and the men - a lot of them - seem to end up being disappointed that the tactics work, and lose respect for women for that reason. Which sucks. Many don't think to lose respect for themselves.

 

Which is why some of us want to be on guard against this type of thing: we have to protect ourselves. And I don't want to be involved with a man who expresses such hatred against women - which they usually do, calling them sluts, and judging them for the same behaviour that they want to indulge in. They want us to have sex with them, and then expect us to turn them down, if we want to be respected.

 

I did actually realize that my being so on guard, might lose me a chance to know someone who was just really nervous, and trying to use them in order to get to know me, but there are a lot out there who are of the more sleazy variety. They hate women in general, and want payback for feeling so hurt and rejected.

 

(I'm sorry if any of my posts were off-topic earlier on. I did my best to stay on topic.)

 

That's fine. You should protect yourself. Nobody else is going to take as much interest in keeping you safe as you are.

 

I'm pointing out that if women avoided those types of men that I identified, you'd cut back on a huge number of PUAs you'd likely encounter. I was being helpful. At least I was trying to be.

[RedRobin]

If you're engaging a girl on the regular, and she's super responsive and makes it clear she's into you, and then you go out on a date, and you tell her how into her you are and how you can't wait to see her again, and then the next day and for a couple days after, completely flip the script and stop contacting her like you have been for weeks, intentionally withdrawing (pulling) to test her interest level and make her feel insecure and make her chase you?

 

That's f*cked up. That's not "going with the flow." And this intentional withholding of contact from a woman who's clearly into you *is* a PUA tactic.

 

Mirroring someone's interest level isn't manipulative. The above most certainly is.

 

Agreed.

 

... and TBH, this is exactly when I dump a guy...

 

No matter how interested in him I was. It hurts too. I'm sad when I have to do it...

 

But I do it because this kind of guy... no matter what he SAYS... would hurt me again intentionally down the road just to see if he can.

 

This is why empathy, gratitude, and ability to delay gratification are my top three characteristics I look for in a man. PUAs can't do it because they don't feel it. And when they don't feel it, it is 100% obvious.

 

ANY duping glee, or unsympathetic behavior directed towards those who have treated him with nothing but kindness.... get put out. Immediately.

 

THAT is what to look for SG... Duping glee especially.

[Anela]

@mesmerized Taking pleasure in seeing others look like a fool is the very definition of cruelty. No one talking about any PUA techniques in the thread has suggested that as some "fringe benefit," fun, or desired outcome of PUA. You did though.

 

Moreover, if many women share your attitude, you have validated every single method of PUA listed. If the male "mating dance" is just a facade for female benefit, what do you care what form it takes? To take pleasure in seeing people make fools of themself? You've already decided whether or not to sleep with the guy. That's what you said after all. Blameshift failed and not responded to btw. Doesn't work.

 

I don't take pleasure in anyone looking like a fool. I've been made to look a fool myself, and been treated horrendously.

 

I've always liked the idea of courtship, though - not hearing, "I'd hit that," on my way past someone, or having someone leer at me in some other way. The sweetness, and sexiness, of getting to know someone, knowing that you're both extremely and sincerely interested in each other... that neither one would intentionally hurt the other, they're in a little world all their own, they look forward to talking to each other, and just seeing the other gives them butterflies. Give me true mutual interest any day.

[MrCastle]

I think a lot of these "tactics" aren't inherently bad. I think a lot of them can be useful for men that need some sort of spark to get the ball rolling on their success.

 

I think the potential for harm comes in the individual. I've seen firsthand on pua forums, men abusing their newfound success. Becoming sociopaths. Using women as objects. Bragging about it.

 

Not to be cliche but with great power comes great responsibility.

 

When you crack the code -- and by that I mean -- when you have a strong working knowledge on what works on the particular women you're trying to date. When you realize what works for you, when to use it, etc -- you are faced with two options. Use that power for good, or become a monster.

 

And some men become monsters.

 

Simple as that.

[Anela]

That's fine. You should protect yourself. Nobody else is going to take as much interest in keeping you safe as you are.

 

I'm pointing out that if women avoided those types of men that I identified, you'd cut back on a huge number of PUAs you'd likely encounter. I was being helpful. At least I was trying to be.

 

But you would be including yourself in that; I'm not hitting on you, but I think you're a good guy.

[New User]

I think a lot of these "tactics" aren't inherently bad. I think a lot of them can be useful for men that need some sort of spark to get the ball rolling on their success.

 

I think the potential for harm comes in the individual. I've seen firsthand on pua forums, men abusing their newfound success. Becoming sociopaths. Using women as objects. Bragging about it.

 

Not to be cliche but with great power comes great responsibility.

 

When you crack the code -- and by that I mean -- when you have a strong working knowledge on what works on the particular women you're trying to date. When you realize what works for you, when to use it, etc -- you are faced with two options. Use that power for good, or become a monster.

 

And some men become monsters.

 

Simple as that.

 

Honestly, I think that about sums up the whole ball of wax.

[fortyninethousand322]

But you would be including yourself in that; I'm not hitting on you, but I think you're a good guy.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not saying that I'm a good guy or a bad guy. But the reality is that I am exactly the sort that PUA tries to market itself to. I guarantee that many guys like me fall into it. Probably more than any other demographic.

 

So, unfortunately (or fortunately) it is another way to screen out potential PUAs...

[Anela]

ouch! ooh that's gotta hurt 49322.

 

No! I didn't mean it that way. I've told him that if I was younger, I would be interested in him.

 

I don't think that he needs to use the nastier sides of PUA, knowing what I do of him on the boards.

[Star Gazer]

This is why empathy, gratitude, and ability to delay gratification are my top three characteristics I look for in a man. PUAs can't do it because they don't feel it. And when they don't feel it, it is 100% obvious.

 

ANY duping glee, or unsympathetic behavior directed towards those who have treated him with nothing but kindness.... get put out. Immediately.

 

THAT is what to look for SG... Duping glee especially.

 

I don't think I know what duping glee would look like.

[MrCastle]

The one (well I have more than one but one that sticks out for me) issue that bothers me is--

 

Is every "lay report" starts out the exact same way.

 

Guy walks into a bar, hits on every woman he finds attractive, finds one that's barely able to stand, takes her home, and says "f*ck yeah. My superior alpha pua skills got me another lay."

 

Uhh, no. Alcohol did.

 

95% of lay reports that I've read start in clubs/bars with a girl that is extremely tipsy, or more.

 

Sometimes I think it would be better if men bought a Zagats guide to clubs in their area as opposed to spending it on e-books.

 

I'm not impressed.

[fortyninethousand322]

The one (well I have more than one but one that sticks out for me) issue that bothers me is--

 

Is every "lay report" starts out the exact same way.

 

Guy walks into a bar, hits on every woman he finds attractive, finds one that's barely able to stand, takes her home, and says "f*ck yeah. My superior alpha pua skills got me another lay."

 

Uhh, no. Alcohol did.

 

95% of lay reports that I've read start in clubs/bars with a girl that is extremely tipsy, or more.

 

Sometimes I think it would be better if men bought a Zagats guide to clubs in their area as opposed to spending it on e-books.

 

I'm not impressed.

 

Yeah that kind of nonsense is ridiculous.

 

Although, I figure the average 19 year old at a frat party doesn't need an e-book to tell him how to employ that strategy.

 

Which is a sad reflection of modern life...

[SJC2008]

Evident by the thread being locked to be cleaned up, it's hard to pinpoint what exactly PUA is becuase there are so many variations of it and almost any dating "game" or "rule" could be construed as so.

 

A neg can be used a couple of ways. One way is to level the playing field by taking the pursuer out of the picture (as counter intuitive as it seems) by saying something like "We could never get a long, we're too similar. When I'm in a room by myslef I hate myself want to pull my hair out". It lowers her defenses becasue he's passively telling her he doesn't like her. A different example it the knock and compliment that you were talking about. "I love your nails, are they real?" "No" "Well they're still lovely".

 

The best advice I could give you is is to not get caugt up in the "Is this.." type of thinking and stay true to yourself as to what behavior you will and won't tolerate. I got caught up in the "Was that a test?" and it drove me crazy! If I'm dating a woman and she does something I don't like or crosses a boundry she's going to know about it, tactfully of course. I don't care if it's a test and if I passed it or failed it...

 

I don't neccessarily think PUA is a bad thing as long as it's done with good intentions. PUA teaches men to not put women on a pedestal which a lot of "nice guys" do. I did this and am working very hard on not doing it any more.

[MrCastle]