Do you think spanking is OK? Lawmakers voted against banning parents from spanking

[HokeyReligions]

There was some discussion on the board recently about spanking. I saw a news story today that reminded me of the discussion.

 

However, I recognize that this is a sensitive topic and would like to beg everyone who posts – PLEASE; no name-calling; no “you are wrong and I am right” statements. Let’s be cautious in our posts. I’m not out to change anyone’s mind or to promote or decry anyone’s parenting style. If you don't agree with my parenting style, that's fine - you are not alone. There are many who don't agree with me on many topics!

 

Before I put out my opinion, I will preface with my definition of spanking, swats, abuse: (I'm curious about your definitions too)

 

A [color=blue]swat [/color]to the backside of a toddler or young child (say 2 – 4 years old) will get their attention. Its made with an open hand, not a fist and is more startling than painful.

 

My reasons to swat:

-Running out into the street, or away from parents,

-Consistent negative behavior and the swat is used to gain the childs attention (I prefer a swat to screaming at the child, or attempting to explain something to a 3 y/o that they won’t understand). Such as constantly grabbing things off of store shelves and not remembering the NO word!

-slapping or swatting a hand when reaching for a dangerous item (hot stove top, dogs bared teeth, that sort of thing)

 

[color=indigo]Spanking [/color]to me is a deliberate punishment. It is not done on the spur-of-the-moment and the reasons for it are clearly discussed before or during. It may consist of taking the child over my knee and administering open-handed swats, of more force than just swatting and designed to inflict some pain or discomfort, on the buttocks. It does not go on forever. The number (& force) of spanks is determined by the ‘crime’ (or how much the child scared the parent! LOL)

 

My reasons to spank:

-Child knows they did something wrong and could have chosen not to do whatever they did: Hitting a sibling or someone else (getting into a fight); harming an animal; destruction of property; disobeying parents (breaking a grounding, smoking, drinking, etc.)

 

 

[color=red]Abuse [/color]to me is not a deliberate action by the parents, but more of an outburst in reaction to something the child did, or did not do. It can happen anywhere, is usually accompanied by some form of verbal admonishment and not a discussion, and the hitting can be over any part of the body. It has nothing to govern the strength or duration of the hitting.

 

My reasons to abuse:

Duh! There is no reason or justification for abuse!

 

I am pro corporal punishment. I thought it interesting that in my brief research on the topic of spanking, I saw many websites that tied it to fundamentalist Christian beliefs and passages in the Bible. I guess much of what I was indoctrinated with as a child did, after all, stay with me! My mother will be so pleased!

 

Here are some news articles and excerpts. You can also search for pro- or anti-spanking and find all sorts of websites.

 

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/headline/world/2880014

 

LONDON -- After a passionate debate in the House of Commons, British lawmakers voted overwhelmingly Tuesday against banning parents from spanking their children.

 

 

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1206530.html

"There is evidence that 'reasonable' is interpreted by juries and the courts to cover a range of behaviour that many people would consider went beyond a loving smack," the committee wrote.

 

"Instead of putting their own house in order, they're starting a campaign to criminalize loving parents," he said. "For most parents a smack is something that's quick, it's effective and it causes no lasting harm."

 

A government survey conducted after the case found that 88 percent of respondents believed it was sometimes necessary to hit a child, although less than one percent thought that "reasonable" punishment included blows that left marks or bruises.

 

 

 

http://www.nospank.net/johnson2.htm

Argument 1: Many psychological studies show that spanking is an improper form of discipline

 

Counterpoint: Researchers, and authors of “The Use and Effects of Physical Punishment in the Home: A Systematic Review” recently conducted a systematic review of the research literature on corporal punishment. They found that 83% of the 132 identified articles published in clinical and psychosocial journals were merely opinion-driven editorials, reviews or commentaries, devoid of new empirical findings. Moreover, most of the empirical studies were methodologically flawed by grouping the impact of abuse with spanking. The best studies demonstrated beneficial, not detrimental, effects of spanking in certain situations. Clearly, there is insufficient evidence to condemn parental spanking and adequate evidence to justify its proper use.

 

Technical Problem: “Improper” in any case, is not a scientific but rather an ethical judgement and thus beyond the realm of truly empirical psychological study.

 

 

Argument 2: Physical punishment establishes the moral righteousness of itting other persons who do something which is regarded as wrong.

 

Counterpoint: The “spanking teaches hitting” belief has gained in popularity over the past decade, but is not supported by objective evidence. A distinction must be made between abusive hitting and nonabusive spanking. A child’s ability to discriminate hitting from disciplinary spanking depends largely upon the parents’ attitude with spanking the parents’ procedure for spanking. There is no evidence in the medical literature that a mild spank to the buttocks of a disobedient child by a loving parent treaches the child aggressive behavior.

[Mr Spock]

Spanking to impress upon a child the importance of rules and obeying the judgement of their parents is acceptable. Breaking an arm isn't.

[paradissa1]

my mom spanked me i turned out ok

[Moose]

I'm a firm believer in spankings. I follow pretty much the guidelines that you do Hokey. The main difference in my house is that we have a chart explaining the offense and punishment. ( I invented it to keep from having to repeat myself over and over again ).

 

Last night was the first time I've had to spank my daughter in over 5 months. She mouthed off to her mom, and refused to do what she was told. I took her to the chart, pointed out that her offense was number 1). Disrespect 2.) Direct disobedience. Punishment was 3 swats for each offense. I then took her into her room, delivered the spankings, let her gather herself for a while, then we both went out into the family room where she apoligized to her mom. The rest of the night she sat in my lap and fell asleep on my shoulder.

 

It's my opinion that when you follow certain guidelines and learn self control that spankings are effective.

 

Abuse can take on many forms. Yelling at your kids and calling them slow, or sloppy, can be just as damaging as a closed fist. I do my best to refrain from name calling. If I feel too upset or mad to deal with the child, I'll lock myself in my study until I'm calm enough to deal with it rationally.

 

No matter how you decide to discipline your children, do it with a clear, calm mind and everything should fall into place.

[paradissa1]

oh ya she i forgot to say she is a front line crises intervention working at a battered womens shelter for 25 years

[bluechocolate]

Several European countries have banned spanking by parents. As you mentioned, the UK has turned this ban down, & not just once but twice now.

 

I don't have any children but I don't think spanking is wrong. I understand the arguments against it & I understand the sense behind them, but I just don't think they're realistic. I can also understand how sometimes a smack or a paddle can be the most efficient & effective way of teaching a child a lesson.

 

I once shared a house with a woman who had 2 small boys & she believed in "no-spanking". It was all about rewards with her & her kids - no negatives. They were holy terrors.

 

I know I was smacked as a child but can only remember two occasions - one I was laughing hysterically & the other I wandered off in the wrong direction & got lost. I was just as scared as my mother but she had told me pointedly to pay attention to where she was at all times. Apparently I had a tendency to wonder off as a small child.

 

Anyway, it didn't do me any harm. I think it all comes down to this:

 

A child’s ability to discriminate hitting from disciplinary spanking depends largely upon the parents’ attitude with spanking the parents’ procedure for spanking.

[Mr Spock]

There is also an age limit. Pre teens and older should not be spanked. If I was a preteen and Moose did what he stated he had done I'd be out of that house faster than a fat kid on cake. Of course, some children are more independant and need less instruction than others.

[Moose]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

There is also an age limit. Pre teens and older should not be spanked. If I was a preteen and Moose did what he stated he had done I'd be out of that house faster than a fat kid on cake. Of course, some children are more independant and need less instruction than others.

 

Nah, only the kids under 12 get the chart treatment....the other two teens gets their weapon of choice, we go out in the back yard and proceed to kill each other. Whoever can walk back into the house afterwards is the winner!

[Mr Spock]

Well, it's just that puberty is such a volatile time spanking isn't going to do anything but cause extreme resentment and insubordinance anyway. I am of the mindset that people should be able to discipline their children how they choose to. They're the ones who have to live with them, and they're the ones who have to maintain good adult relationships with them when they're older.

[Moose]

Very true. The teenagers get hit where it hurts them the most, phone privleages, TV, Video games, allowance, with the 16 year old, keys to the car are all tools that I use to keep them in line.

 

If neccessary, ( And it has happened ), whenever the 16 and 15 year old get into a fist fight, I'll subdue them and hold them until they can behave. But that's the extent of any physical handling I use against them.

 

Depending on what they're fighting about, I'll allow them to beat the hell out of each other as long as it's outside. I will watch of course and make sure there isn't any dirty play, but usually they're clean fighters. I know some may get angry with me about that. But I figure that they will need to stand up for themselves and possibly have to defend their family. Also, it sometimes reminds the 16 year old that his little brother won't take much from him.

[tattoomytoe]

i will be a pro-spanking parent. It works.

 

My mother made us go out back and pick out switches when we got into big trouble....now i will not go that far, or a belt, i think that is too harsh.

 

But a good pop on the butt never hurt nobody, and well if it did then it was done wrong.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by Moose

The main difference in my house is that we have a chart explaining the offense and punishment. ( I invented it to keep from having to repeat myself over and over again ). .

 

LOL! I actually made a tape-recording of my voice explaining and admonishing them for various nefarious acts they insisted upon repeating, and when one of them broke the rule I would tell them to go play the tape for 30 minutes and I would be in shortly to administer the spanking! LOLOL! I usually didn't have to spank very often -- the threat of a spanking was enough to keep them in line. I don't think I (or hubby) spanked either of them more than 2 or 3 times their whole lives, now that I think about it.

[honey2005]

I think spanking/swatting is ok when the parents have done everything they can to teach the child right from wrong but nothing works, like time out, etc. But with situations like the child running into the street, I would be too scared to test to see if the time out worked. I think a spanking would be alot better than my child getting hit by a car.

 

My parents spanked me, sometimes with their hands, sometimes with other things, like a belt or a switch. I think I turned out to be a pretty good kid, but I don't think I'd use a belt or a switch on anyone... that just hurt too much .

[Naive]

It depends how often you spank your child and for what reasons you spank them. My dad would often spank me, but not just with his hands. He would hit me with the iron cord and the hangers, also with belts. He would also wet his hand to make it hurt more. I really hold that against him. Even though I never bring it up and I love him so much (no matter what he does), it hurts me that he would use that type of punishment when I was only 4 years old. I think I was too small for that. My mom only spanked me about 5 times and I don't hold anything against her.

[honey2005]

It depends how often you spank your child and for what reasons you spank them.

 

I agree. I think if the parent is angry they should wait until they calm down and then rationally think out a punishment for the child.

[tiki]

I agree with swatting/spanking as punishment/disciplinary action for children under the age of 'puberty range'. I feel that spanking a 15 year old is not appropriate. There are other means of punishment that a 15 year old can better relate to (grounding) than a four year old can.

 

I believe that there's a difference between spanking/swatting and abuse. And it can be over the top.

 

I worked for one nurse practitioner at a clinic that only used spanking for safety issues (running out into the street, etc). I liked her way of thinking. Then I had a child myself.

 

My child rarely gets spanked, but when he does, he's does something to deserve it. My mom babysits him a couple of days a week. She, as his caregiver, knows that she's allowed to spank and discipline him. I WANT her to discipline him. I don't want him to get away with murder at her house and be in for shell shock once he gets home. When she tells me that she had to get onto him and spank him, I know damn well he deserved it.

 

It's hard to judge just what you will do as a parent. I never imagined that I'd be a strict parent. I never imagined that my ex would let my son get away with the crap he does. But things change when you're in that situation. I'm strict and my child is well mannered and well behaved. I'm not here to play friends. I'm here to parent a child. I could care less if my children think of me as a "friend". That's not my intent. I want them to KNOW that I'm the parent, I make the rules.

 

~BTW, Good topic Hokey.

[lokai]

In college, I learned that spanking, or punishment in general, can actually be a very effective tool. Of course, there are many sides to this argument, and unless punishment is used very carefully, it may not do much good. From what I have learned, the best way to employ punishment is to carefully observe the reaction of the individual child, and adapt accordingly. There are, of course, a few other methods of punishment not involving spanking, which can work quite effectively. This is obviously a difficult subject, and I cannot at this time get deeper into my own experiences and views on it.

 

My parents spanked me, at times, as a child and I now am doing quite well in life.

[brashgal]

It seems to depend on the child too. I've been lucky, I haven't had to resort to spanking very often and usually for the running in the street type behavior. It made an impression on my older son, the threat of a spanking usually stopped bad behavior. It was an effective form of discipline that we happily did not resort to often.

 

My younger son remembers every time I ever hit him (and I can count the times on one hand) and resents it until this day. Spanking upsets him way too much, he feels as if I don't love him so I just don't do it. The few times I spanked him we had drama for days. He responds well to rewards and the taking away of priveleges and counting to three (I rarely get to three).

[UCFKevin]

I think that kids who don't get spanked but merely get talking to's or time out will not have as much discipline as a kid who does get spanked.

 

I honestly think there NEEDs to be fear in a child's upbringing. Healthy fear, I mean. I didn't want to get in trouble because I wouldn't want to get spanked. I was scared to s*** of making my dad upset.

 

You see these kids nowadays walking ALL OVER their parents, and I'm betting it's because they weren't spanked at all.

 

I will definitely spank my children when they deserve it. I didn't get spanked MUCH but when I did, youch!

[dyermaker]

On one hand, I don't think spanking is ever "okay". I think it demonstrates a lack of self-control on the parent's behalf, and sends a message to the child that violence is the way to solve problems and maintain order.

 

However, I've noticed that kids who's parents are obsessively anti-spanking often result to diplomacy, which is equally destructive--because instead of hitting the child, they try to rationalize their actions and talk it out with them, which gives the child a sense of power.

 

Ideally, one could be firm without spanking, but as far as nonpainful swatting goes--while I'm opposed in theory--the ends justify the means; Your kid will be less of a brat, and although studies show they're going to be more violent/aggressive, it's a small price to pay for peace and quiet, yes?

[UCFKevin]

What studies? I'd like to see them.

 

ALL my friends my age were spanked as children and we all grew up to be perfectly well rounded citizens who never resort to violence.

[tiki]

One, two, three, magic....works brilliantly. Have used it for YEARS.

[SadAndLonely]

I don't know whether or not I think spanking is ok, but I think that parents' rights have been severely diminished all because we don't want to hurt the fragile little children. Whatever. My mom grew up in a house where love and a leather belt were used whenever one or the other was needed, and she grew up to love and respect her parents more than anything, and to also be a respectable adult. In turn, she raised me to fear her (not by threats or beatings or anything physical, really) and know that she loved me unconditionally. As a result, I'm also now a respectable adult who loves my mom more than anything.

[UCFKevin]

EXACTLY.

 

How much fear can you have when you're sent to your room to play XBox and talk on your Sidekick?

[Mr Spock]

I'd like to be disciplined, right now.........