Do you think spanking is OK? Lawmakers voted against banning parents from spanking

[bluechocolate]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'd like to be disciplined, right now.........

 

SMACK ! SMACK !

 

(feeling better now?)

[dizi]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

I think that kids who don't get spanked but merely get talking to's or time out will not have as much discipline as a kid who does get spanked.

 

I honestly think there NEEDs to be fear in a child's upbringing. Healthy fear, I mean. I didn't want to get in trouble because I wouldn't want to get spanked. I was scared to s*** of making my dad upset.

 

You see these kids nowadays walking ALL OVER their parents, and I'm betting it's because they weren't spanked at all.

 

I agree with you so much. My fiance's son (he's 4) does not get spanked (or even a small swat) and he gets away with everything - hitting, kicking, throwing things, talking back, shows no remorse, impolite, demanding, only eats what HE wants WHEN he wants it, throws a fit and gets what he wants... The most severe punishment is time out, getting a toy taken away for a few minutes, and hearing the words,"Now, we don't do that." NOTHING that will make him cry. Heaven forbid this child gets upset!! He has no fear. This is because unfortunately, my fiance and I stay with his parents out of financial necessity, and when his son comes to visit, they don't let my fiance discipline him. His mother is the same way. They get very angry with him when he tries. It's ridiculous...He's a great kid, don't get me wrong, but he isn't learning how to behave. I've discussed this with my fiance, but he feels he can't argue with his parents! His kid will suffer for it, unfortunately...( advice, anyone? )

My son lives with his father. I spanked him or swatted him only when necessary, and he is such a well mannered, polite, caring child, if you don't mind me tooting my own horn! Healthy fear is good. If all you're going to get is, "Now, we don't do that," what does that teach them??

[tiki]

Originally posted by dizi

If all you're going to get is, "Now, we don't do that," what does that teach them??

 

...that the next time they do it, they hear "now, we don't do that". It's a vicious cycle.

[dizi]

Well, duh!

[Moose]

On one hand, I don't think spanking is ever "okay". I think it demonstrates a lack of self-control on the parent's behalf, and sends a message to the child that violence is the way to solve problems and maintain order.

 

Dyer, I've been trying to stay away from posting responses to you......but it just seems to me that you and I push the right buttons with each other, often.

 

I don't know what you mean about parent's lacking self control when they spank their children. There is no lack of anything except the lack of not rearing their children. I'm in TOTAL control when I spank my kids. There are procedures in my house that are followed to the letter to maintain that control. Violence is not taught in my house by any stretch of the imagination. Punishment on the other hand is.

 

Now, if a child spills a glass of milk on the dinner table and one jumps up, grabs the child and proceeds to whip their bottom.....that's not only lack of self control, that's also anger management issues.

 

However, I've noticed that kids who's parents are obsessively anti-spanking often result to diplomacy, which is equally destructive--because instead of hitting the child, they try to rationalize their actions and talk it out with them, which gives the child a sense of power.

 

There is nothing left but diplomacy if the parents are so anti-spank. I don't believe either method is destructive though, the chosen method's delivery may be, but not the method itself.

 

Ideally, one could be firm without spanking, but as far as nonpainful swatting goes--while I'm opposed in theory--the ends justify the means; Your kid will be less of a brat, and although studies show they're going to be more violent/aggressive, it's a small price to pay for peace and quiet, yes

 

Nonpainfull swatting is a waste of time and energy. When I spank......it's gonna sting.

 

Furthermore, I think a delicate balance of swatting and diplomacy is the best way to go. As an abused child myself I go as far away from spanking as I possibly can....but when there is a clear infraction of the rules spelled out on the chart, it's my job as a good Father and Steward of my children to be consistant in delivering the appropriate punishment.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by brashgal

It seems to depend on the child too. I've been lucky, I haven't had to resort to spanking very often and usually for the running in the street type behavior. It made an impression on my older son, the threat of a spanking usually stopped bad behavior. It was an effective form of discipline that we happily did not resort to often.

 

My younger son remembers every time I ever hit him (and I can count the times on one hand) and resents it until this day. Spanking upsets him way too much, he feels as if I don't love him so I just don't do it. The few times I spanked him we had drama for days. He responds well to rewards and the taking away of priveleges and counting to three (I rarely get to three).

 

Excellent illustration. Parents need to know their kids and how their kids respond to different methods of teaching. What works for one, doesn't necessarily work for the other. You know that your younger son feels that you don't love him if you spank, but your older son didn't interpret it that way so emotionally he didn't feel unloved. Two kids, two slightly differing styles of parenting from the same parents.

 

Thanks for pointing it out this way.

[Stone]

I am not opposed to spanking but I found a better way to dicipline my child ( based on his personality) I quit spanking my 4 year old son about 6 months ago, he has SEVEAR SEVEAR behaviorial problems and the more I spanked him the more violent he bacame.

 

If he acts up now he stays in his room all night it doesn't matter if it's 2;30 he won't come out unless it's to eat or go to the bathroom ( we had to move all the toys into the garage so this would be a punishment) and he must explain and understand what he did, tell me why he did it ect.

[savethedrama4allama]

A lot of people are saying here that kids over the age of 12 or so should no longer be spanked. I remember about that age was my last spanking and it was horrible, embarassing. What is it about puberty, or that age range, that makes spanking no longer appropriate? Any ideas?

[tiki]

Idunno, it just seems not right. I can't imagine my mom telling me to drop my pants (she used to do sometimes this to spank us) and me being like, uh, mom, I have pubes.

 

That's my thought.

[Moose]

To me it's just a matter of respecting my children. How else will they learn it if it's not demonstrated. Heck, I even pull my teenagers into another room if they mouth me in front of there friends so as not to embarress them.

[tiki]

Moose, at what age do you spank yours up til? Anything set in stone?

[tattoomytoe]

i went to a private school, and that was the punishment. i still remember getting paddled, with a wooden paddle, outside the class in the hall. it was soo embarrasing.

even until maybe 1987, in public schools down in alabama where i grew up, they paddled.

 

i can see Dyer's point on the lack of self control. Not all spanker lose there cool, but sometimes you just get sooo frustrated you want to clock the kid in the head.....that is where the abuse line gets very fine.....maybe not crossed.

 

My mother is one of the loose the cool types, i would not ever say she abused us, i think abuse is a huge Mental thing. My mom is just high strung.

But my parents have always either apologized or explained why they took the actions that they did.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by tiki

uh, mom, I have pubes.

 

 

LOLOL!

 

I heard the line "You're not too old to take a paddle to, young lady" several times when I was around 12 - 15!

 

I think that at some point its expected that discussion and understanding and reasoning ("You're old enough to understand and appreciate" another line I heard) takes over. Besides, some 12 y/o's are just too durn heavy to bend over a knee!

[tattoomytoe]

after we were about 13, was when my mother would just throw water or ice tea on us- we were notorious to smart off at dinner, so it was what ever was at hand.

[Stone]

I think once you hit Jr. High you are to old to be spanked, and being grounded at this age would probably be more effective, at 15-17 if I had a choice between getting spanked or being grounded I'd take a spanking any day

[tiki]

My mom just popped my mouth with her hand when I said something smart. That was her favorite. She'd probably still do it if she could catch me.

[Moose]

even until maybe 1987, in public schools down in alabama where i grew up, they paddled

 

Still do in my town.

[tattoomytoe]

Originally posted by Moose

 

 

Still do in my town.

 

 

and it kept us in line too. no one wanted to get there Name written on the paddle...that is what they did there, nice huh?

[Moose]

There wasn't room on our paddle, it was riddled with holes in order to travel faster, easier through the air. But, it was known all over school who got it, that's for sure!

[Naive]

Originally posted by savethedrama4yrmama

A lot of people are saying here that kids over the age of 12 or so should no longer be spanked. I remember about that age was my last spanking and it was horrible, embarassing. What is it about puberty, or that age range, that makes spanking no longer appropriate? Any ideas?

 

The last time my dad spanked me was when I was about 12. He tried it when I was about 14 and I got his hands and said, "no, you are not going to do that to me, talk to me like a civilized person" and it worked!!! He never tried to hit me after that. There comes a time when it's not correct to spank your children because they might not be children anymore!

[UCFKevin]

I think I was like 11 or 12, and I can't recall if it was my mother or father, but they spanked, and it didn't hurt.

 

That was a glorious day.

 

Until they brought out the cat'o'nines.

[Moose]

Originally posted by tiki

Moose, at what age do you spank yours up til? Anything set in stone?

 

12 years old. Then it's groundins', taking away privleages. Also, this is about when I let them deal with their own battles. Usually we stop the arguements and settle them, but at 13 I feel that's when they need to start reasoning on their own, and take it outside if neccessary, their call.

[MassiveAtom]

Originally posted by UCFKevin

I think that kids who don't get spanked but merely get talking to's or time out will not have as much discipline as a kid who does get spanked.

 

I honestly think there NEEDs to be fear in a child's upbringing. Healthy fear, I mean. I didn't want to get in trouble because I wouldn't want to get spanked. I was scared to s*** of making my dad upset.

 

You see these kids nowadays walking ALL OVER their parents, and I'm betting it's because they weren't spanked at all.

 

I will definitely spank my children when they deserve it. I didn't get spanked MUCH but when I did, youch!

 

See, this is exactly the problem I have with spanking. I'm a 180lbs man, pretty solid shape and can throw a softball pretty dang far. I have a 58lb 6 yo, and a 23lbs 2 yo. both girls. I've never hit em, never will. Why, because I respect their boundaries as people and I would really hope they learn to respect others as well.

 

All this control over the situation is an attempt to sterilize the situation. HAs anyone ever asked how the kid felt after being spanked? I personally remember feeling really sad, hurt, and the one thing that I remember was feeling worthless.

 

I don't want to be the source of that trauma.

 

I think that there is no place for fear in love. I love my daughters. and they, in no way fear me. They love me. which is just how I would have it. Oh, and they don't walk all over me, now they do pile on from time to time. And that's a lot of fun!

 

If my daughter makes a mistake, heck she's only 6, she can't really do anything with malice and understand the action fully, I will correct her action. But I'll do that with love, not with violence. And it works pretty dang well.

 

mA

[blind_otter]

There is nothing left but diplomacy if the parents are so anti-spank. I don't believe either method is destructive though, the chosen method's delivery may be, but not the method itself.

 

I see I'm one of few who is reluctant to use spanking.

 

You know, some people can control themselves and some people can't. My mother used physical discipline that involved caning with a sawed-off wooden broom handle, punching, boxing my ears, locking me in a room with nothing but a mattress for 24 hours, and pulling my hair. Honestly I wasn't a bad kid at all. I was usually punished for getting anything but straight A's, and for not wanting to go to ballet class. Once she punched me in the face for not wanting to do an algebra workbook over summer break before 7th Grade. I was basically a terrified child, I was too shy to even order food at a restaurant, and I hardly ever spoke to anyone.

 

In a way I grew up ok. I learned how to be strong, but I also learned how to tolerate very bad situations. Most people who grow up with abuse learn how to function. But I basically just learned to live in constant terror. After she beat me, or my older sisters, she would fall into a deep depression and just lay in her bed for days, only getting up to go to work, or the bathroom, not eating, not talking to anyone. She finally stopped when I was old enough to hit her back, which I did, in a frantic, physical altercation when I was about 13 years old. My father was the only thing that made living bearable.

 

As a result, I cannot ever spank my children, or use any physical violence whatsoever.

 

I know that if I do I will become exactly like my mother. And I will never allow that to happen.

 

So what do you do if you can't spank? Are you destined to have ill-behaved children?

 

In anger management I learned that violence begets violence. I don't want to engender the same helpless rage in my children that my mother created in me. And I will never completely forgive her, or be able to kiss or hug her, ever again. I will never be able to be loving towards her. Only civil and polite. Because I don't respect her and I never will. She showed that she was weak-minded and she used her physicality against a person much smaller than herself. I think that's unacceptable, but I realize that it's because of my personal experience.

[moimeme]

Blind O, I'm so sorry to hear your story and the stories of others who have been abused.

 

I think spanking is the resort of people who haven't the wit to think of more appropriate punishments. At the very most, I think one swat on the butt is the absolute limit of physical punishment. In the two years I had stepkids, none of them got spanked by me or their father. When they acted out, they were refused treats like playing computer games. And that worked just fine. In fact, all four were so well-behaved and polite that strangers would remark on it and they are all very, very nice kids.

 

Most people who advocate spanking do so because "I was spanked and I turned out fine" Now there's really scientific proof for ya. Or else it's something like:

 

I once shared a house with a woman who had 2 small boys & she believed in "no-spanking". It was all about rewards with her & her kids - no negatives. They were holy terrors.

 

That isn't the point and it's not the only option. The most effective punishment is to ensure that the kid suffers consequences, which means being deprived of something much liked, enjoyed, or treasured. So you forbid the favourite TV show or visiting a favourite friend or pizza for dinner - whatever the kid really thinks is a treat. And you do it for a period of time in proportion to the 'crime'.

 

How much fear can you have when you're sent to your room to play XBox and talk on your Sidekick?

 

Well duh. You take the XBox and sidekick and everything else entertaining out of the room otherwise it's obviously not a consequence that bears any weight.

 

I honestly think there NEEDs to be fear in a child's upbringing. Healthy fear, I mean. I didn't want to get in trouble because I wouldn't want to get spanked. I was scared to s*** of making my dad upset.

 

My folks did it much better. My dad made it quite clear that he was disappointed with me when I did stuff that was wrong - that he expected much more and that I hadn't lived up to his expectation. It worked in spades. I've not been in a day of trouble in my life. I'm a law-abiding citizen, to boot. I didn't fear my father at all - I respected him and wanted his good opinion and he was sure to let me know when I had it. As a result, I behaved in the ways that earned it for me.

 

If he acts up now he stays in his room all night it doesn't matter if it's 2;30 he won't come out unless it's to eat or go to the bathroom ( we had to move all the toys into the garage so this would be a punishment) and he must explain and understand what he did, tell me why he did it ect.

 

Now here is the sort of punishment that does work. A kid can slough off a spanking; while it hurts, it's fairly brief and the memory of pain doesn't last. However a day or a couple of days is eternity to a kid, and a day sitting in a bedroom that has no entertainment whatsoever in it is a much more potent consequence. Being forbidden to play the favourite computer game or watch TV is a big deal when these are kids' main entertainments these days.