I am curious, why do people date someone who is not available?

[Silly_Girl]

Perhaps they are as available as you would wish them to be.

[findingnemo]

Some people are married and available!!! That's a joke in my part of the world. Sad but true.

 

I wouldn't say I dated an unavailable man but rather I loved an unavailable man. I think the A happened because I had loved him before he was M and continued to do so after we broke up. If I was weak, I was weak when it came to him. I have never dated another MM and will not do so. Was I emotionally unavailable? Yes, I was to all men but him. Did I lack empathy? No, I just couldn't have empathy for BW and love her H at the same time. So I ignored her existence. Did I want more than an A? Yes, I wanted him for myself. Did I intend to have an A? No. I went in knowing he was M and expected him to choose me if he wanted to keep me.

 

Why do people get M? Knowing what we know about how difficult Ms can be, why do people subject themselves to such a legal bind? As much as we know that it is the moral thing to do as opposed to an A which is immoral, we also know the pitfalls. Many As like Ms begin with hope. Hope for fulfillment in the short term and then hope for the mid term and then for the long term. In both categories, there are plenty of people who miscalculate and end up unhappy. In an A you get into a sinking ship. In a bad M, you don't realize your ship is taking on water until you are almost drowned. Hopefully we learn a thing or two and live the rest of our lives putting those lessons to use.

 

Personally there will be no more As for me and I pray that there will be no more bad Ms either. They both had the same negative effects on me.

[Got it]

I have been reading some of the posts here, and I just don't get it.

 

I am not being rude or judgemental at all. More curious.

 

I recently went out with a girl who announced to me on the 2nd date she had a bf. She did not say much more so I continued to see her, thinking maybe they wer eon the outs or it was a way for her to keep from getting to close to soon (no real bf).

 

4-5 dates in, no romance, just some touching, I told her I cannot be the other man. I could not date someone knowing there was a man in her life that I was disrespecting. I reminded her she was not single.

 

She took a couple of days, came back to talk to me and agreed and said it was best we not see each other anymore. She said she had been trying to break up with her bf since before we hung out, he was not taking it well and that she needed to stay with him. She said she did not expect me to really like her, that a man like me (looks she said) could never like someone like her, and it caught her by surprise.

 

She earned a lot of points for saying that. Though she did text me recently saying when she was with me all she could think about was having sex with me.

 

So why do people do this? The other person is simply not available? They are not single? I will repeat...they are not available? So why get involved?

 

To me, being married did not mean he wasn't available. He was plenty available.

[Babolat]

Your responses are inconsistent.

 

You are right, and I thought about that later.

 

I was starting to like her, she was my type. I liked her before we started hanging out as we knew each other for two years, good acquanitances though I was dating someone and never saw her as someone to date for that reason.

 

After my break up, we were hanging out one day talking and I asked if she wanted to go out sometime, she said yes, so we did.

 

She announced "I have a bf" quickly and quietly the second tme we hung out. I though "OK, maybe it's not serious, maybe she is "pretending" to have a bf". Why is she contining to say yes to seeing me if it's all good with the bf? So I continued, with caution. And I also thought maybe we can just be friends.

 

3rd hang out she invited me to her house. I saw NO signs of a bf, 3 year relationship per her, you would think you owuld see something, a photo, tootbrush in the bathroom, something. So again I thought the same, bf must be on the outs. And these were Friday and Saturday night get togethers..where is he I thought.

 

4th and 5th hang out she mentioned more about him, not voluntarily, more in response to other types of questions. For example, we talked about kayaking, I asked if she did, she said yes,I asked where hers was, she said at her bfs.

 

And each time we hung out she was getting more flirty, more touchy so again I thought maybe the bf was on the outs. She was starting to tell me she wanted to have sex with me, but could not because she has a bf.

 

So it became clear to me she DID have a bf, which is when I told her I cannot be the other guy. She said she needed to make a decision, 2 days later we met, she said he is not taking breaking up well and that she could not hang out with me anymore.

 

I was actually relieved as I was feeling this too. All this transpired over a 3-4 week period.

 

Hopefully, this makes more sense.

[Babolat]

And to reiterate: Because he's emotionally unavailable.

 

I have been thinking about this. So you think because I am working on friendships with woman, verus romantic dating, that I could be emotionally unavailable to date right now?

[Babolat]

Isn't the onus on the married person, the one in the relationship, to not cheat?

 

In my example, once I figured it out, that she did have a serious bf and she was flirting and spending time with me, she became less attractive to me and, should she end it with the bf in the future and then reach out to me, I would not date her.

[carhill]

So why do people do this? The other person is simply not available? They are not single? I will repeat...they are not available? So why get involved?

 

Variously, as experienced over the decades by participation or observation:

 

-Didn't know

 

-Didn't care

 

-'I'm separated'

 

-'We broke up'

 

Gave too much benefit of the doubt.

 

The last one was my main problem....

[Pierre]

If you do start an A, it's one of two things:

 

You are romantically disconnected from your spouse.

or

You are very connected and attracted to the new person.

 

Or both.

 

 

But, why try to keep both relationships? That is ultimate dysfunction when it comes to relationships. Why decide to be deceitful when you were honest all your life?

[Pierre]

Isn't the onus on the married person, the one in the relationship, to not cheat?

 

In my example, once I figured it out, that she did have a serious bf and she was flirting and spending time with me, she became less attractive to me and, should she end it with the bf in the future and then reach out to me, I would not date her.

 

I would consider a cheating MOW for fun, but not long term. I see why you feel it is a turn off.

[stillafool]

I

 

I knew it was wrong. But it felt good. I wanted to be with him again. I enjoyed being around him. I didn't need him to make me happy.

 

 

So you knew it was wrong but it felt good to you so you went with it. I would call that selfish. I guess I am different because if I felt attraction towards someone's husband I would do everything possible to avoid it and kill that feeling. There are too many men out there to purposely hurt another person. You admit you get alot of male attention but still you chose to sleep with another woman's husband because that doesn't matter to you. As long as it feels good, right.

[Babolat]

Again no judgement at all here, as I almost went thru this so I kind of know how it feels.

 

I agree with the last post though; there are just too many available people out there to put yourself thru this. And the chances of a favorable outcome are not good. The cheater really has nothing to lose and they, IMHO, are the selfish one. But you as the OW/OM enable this, you allow it to happen.

 

So why invest the time and energy when that time and energy could go towards something healthier?

[fanine]

Again no judgement at all here, as I almost went thru this so I kind of know how it feels.

 

I agree with the last post though; there are just too many available people out there to put yourself thru this. And the chances of a favorable outcome are not good. The cheater really has nothing to lose and they, IMHO, are the selfish one. But you as the OW/OM enable this, you allow it to happen.

 

So why invest the time and energy when that time and energy could go towards something healthier?

 

I guess for each of us there will be different factors. With mine I truly believed he was separated for the first 8 months. We spent endless days together and nights, set up a business, went on holiday, I met all his friends...it felt like something real and of course I fell in love with him...I thought this was someone I could spend the rest of my life with.

 

After I found out his wife had moved back in I did end it. But you can imagine the feelings that were going through my head when I found out the truth. I did keep my distance, but he would contact me and it was very very hard to just ignore at that stage. I loved him, I was angry with him, he was so apologetic and gave the usual reason, it is only for the kids.

 

So we kept low contact for a while, but then it became physical when one night he came around with a mutual friend of ours, and the friend left and then, well......and so it was fully back on. I'm not proud of that, I know also I do have self-esteem issues, and I did miss him so much.....human emotions can be our worst enemies at times. I simply wanted to be in his arms again...

 

Yes of course it is easy to write on paper - just ignore him! Never talk to him! Never re-connect! But with mutual friends, living very close, and with the added issue of my feelings (and I guess his too) it was impossible. I did ask him many times to leave me be, to not contact me....but he would never do that, and I was always too weak to ignore him. Until now that is...

[Sarabi]

I would say those who actually know the person is unavailable and still gets involved with them are selfish, weak, low self esteem and desperate for affection and attention.

 

Hmmmm...and maybe exMM was all of what you describe above...being as he himself knew he was unavailable and was selfish, weak and desperate enough for attention to potentially destroy his relationship and betray his wife

Or will that not do? Being as in these situations we know it must all be the OW/OM's fault

[Sarabi]

Isn't the onus on the married person, the one in the relationship, to not cheat?

 

True but...also those of us who end up choosing these situations also don't necessarily have to be enablers...I suppose it works both ways...but the married ones are under a contract.

At the time I said no because I didn't want to hurt anyone. Then...I thought we could just be friends and I could handle it...but I had poor boundaries. I also got to a point when I didn't care.

By the way...is that a bunny with a pancake on its head?

:bunny:Is it your bunny?

[Red Wolverine]

I know this won't be a real popular opinion, but I think sometimes people meet someone special, possibly even their soulmate, and it doesn't even matter whether one or the other or both are married. Of course, it doesn't always work out, but they say love is blind and I believe many of the people in affairs truly fell in love.

 

In my situation, I was exiting a long, destructive marriage. We shared similar circumstances and I needed someone who understood what I had endured.

 

Then we fell in love and the whole thing became much more complicated than we intended.

 

We careful what you wish for. You might get it then lose it.

 

Instead of two people being unhappy, now there are three.

Edited August 10, 2013 by Red Wolverine

[wanting more]

So you knew it was wrong but it felt good to you so you went with it. I would call that selfish. I guess I am different because if I felt attraction towards someone's husband I would do everything possible to avoid it and kill that feeling. There are too many men out there to purposely hurt another person. You admit you get alot of male attention but still you chose to sleep with another woman's husband because that doesn't matter to you. As long as it feels good, right.

 

If you're going to quote me, quote my entire post. I clearly said I was selfish.

[Sarabi]

I would say those who actually know the person is unavailable and still gets involved with them are selfish, weak, low self esteem and desperate for affection and attention.

 

Oh yeah yeah yeah

This is not only applicable to affairs. There are plenty of people in other relationships who are doing exactly the same thing

I know people like to put marrieds on a pedestal as if they are untouchable and somehow so much better than the rest of us but please...marriage does not exonerate anyone from any of the usual trials/problems we face in life.

 

It makes me laugh when people suggest all of us who are/were "others" have low self esteem or are morally bankrupt. There are plenty of selfish, weak, immature, desperate and needy men and women with low self esteem gettting married or entering long term relationships all the time.

 

and it is not all on the om/ow...exMM knew he was married and therefore he can also be described as selfish, weak and desperate for attention for being willing to betray and hurt his wife

But of course as is the usual opinion here...he was married so obviously he can't be the wrong one. It can't be his fault. It can only be us "others" who are chasing and choosing to be in relationships with these people......

[sweet_pea]

Oh yeah yeah yeah

This is not only applicable to affairs. There are plenty of people in other relationships who are doing exactly the same thing

I know people like to put marrieds on a pedestal as if they are untouchable and somehow so much better than the rest of us but please...marriage does not exonerate anyone from any of the usual trials/problems we face in life.

 

It makes me laugh when people suggest all of us who are/were "others" have low self esteem or are morally bankrupt. There are plenty of selfish, weak, immature, desperate and needy men and women with low self esteem gettting married or entering long term relationships all the time.

 

and it is not all on the om/ow...exMM knew he was married and therefore he can also be described as selfish, weak and desperate for attention for being willing to betray and hurt his wife

But of course as is the usual opinion here...he was married so obviously he can't be the wrong one. It can't be his fault. It can only be us "others" who are chasing and choosing to be in relationships with these people......

 

No one is saying that this isn't true as far as the MM/MW. It is, duh. But this thread isn't about the MM/MW. It's about the 'Other' person who chooses to get into a relationship with someone who is married/in a relationship. I don't think this thread is discussing other types of relationships anyway, just those that involve someone who is already committed to another.

 

Do you not think that those who seek or involve themselves with married/committed people are selfish? Do you not think that some of the time those folks might very well be very immature, weak (at the time/during the affair), desperate for attention/affection, have low self-esteem, etc?

 

As for OP: I don't really understand, even after reading some replies, why anyone would want to get involved with a married/committed person. It doesn't seem worth it or right to me. There are so many available men and women out there, and yet, someone picks a married/attached person? Especially considering the amount of damage affairs cause to everyone... yeah, I don't get it. Probably never will.

[Sarabi]

No one is saying that this isn't true as far as the MM/MW. It is, duh. But this thread isn't about the MM/MW. It's about the 'Other' person who chooses to get into a relationship with someone who is married/in a relationship. I don't think this thread is discussing other types of relationships anyway, just those that involve someone who is already committed to another.

 

Do you not think that those who seek or involve themselves with married/committed people are selfish? Do you not think that some of the time those folks might very well be very immature, weak (at the time/during the affair), desperate for attention/affection, have low self-esteem, etc?

 

As for OP: I don't really understand, even after reading some replies, why anyone would want to get involved with a married/committed person. It doesn't seem worth it or right to me. There are so many available men and women out there, and yet, someone picks a married/attached person? Especially considering the amount of damage affairs cause to everyone... yeah, I don't get it. Probably never will.

 

I can only speak for mine and say yes...the affection/attention was nice

I wasn't actively seeking it but to involve myself was perhaps quite selfish

Unfortunately I personally don't consider myself immature...I must have been weak

[fanine]

No one is saying that this isn't true as far as the MM/MW. It is, duh. But this thread isn't about the MM/MW. It's about the 'Other' person who chooses to get into a relationship with someone who is married/in a relationship. I don't think this thread is discussing other types of relationships anyway, just those that involve someone who is already committed to another.

 

Do you not think that those who seek or involve themselves with married/committed people are selfish? Do you not think that some of the time those folks might very well be very immature, weak (at the time/during the affair), desperate for attention/affection, have low self-esteem, etc?

 

As for OP: I don't really understand, even after reading some replies, why anyone would want to get involved with a married/committed person. It doesn't seem worth it or right to me. There are so many available men and women out there, and yet, someone picks a married/attached person? Especially considering the amount of damage affairs cause to everyone... yeah, I don't get it. Probably never will.

 

Many of us didn't know when we met the attached person that they were attached. There are plenty of married/attached people who lie. That is hardly the OW or OM's fault. We got involved thinking this person was single...

[sweet_pea]

Many of us didn't know when we met the attached person that they were attached. There are plenty of married/attached people who lie. That is hardly the OW or OM's fault. We got involved thinking this person was single...

 

But once you find out that they are NOT single and choose to continue the affair, then what?

 

ETA: MP's who hide their true marital/relationship status are the worst. I went through something similar when I was younger, but I ended the relationship once I found out and told his then-wife (whom I am friends with now, believe it or not). It messes you up because you really, really have been living a relationship-lie, more so than the "regular" affairs... it's just how you choose to deal with it that's important and I wanted to say I'm proud of you for finding the courage to end your affair... I know it's hard.

Edited August 10, 2013 by sweet_pea

[fanine]

But once you find out that they are NOT single and choose to continue the affair, then what?

 

ETA: MP's who hide their true marital/relationship status are the worst. I went through something similar when I was younger, but I ended the relationship once I found out and told his then-wife (whom I am friends with now, believe it or not). It messes you up because you really, really have been living a relationship-lie, more so than the "regular" affairs... it's just how you choose to deal with it that's important and I wanted to say I'm proud of you for finding the courage to end your affair... I know it's hard.

 

Thank you. It is especially hard because he always chases me when I say it is over. He has told me before he will always try and come back.....even if I ask him for NC. I always wanted to just end it on relatively amicable terms. He often said to me the whole thing wasn't fair on me. Yet when it comes to the crunch he can't take it that I might be gone. Although he is the one who says he won't leave his wife because of the kids...

 

Sometimes I feel the only way other than ignoring him, to get him out of my life would be to do something that will make him hate me. But I don't like it that I sometimes follow that train of thought. Tbh though i don't know what I would do to make him hate me. His wife seems to know about me and really doesn't seem bothered...

[janedoe67]

When one does not know one is doing something wrong....then how can one help it?

 

Once one knows, however....sorry, wrong is still wrong even with "soulmates."

 

If your accountant did your taxes and you got great refunds every year, you'd be happy. But let's say about 5 years into this tax stuff you realize he has been regularly breaking the law and violating codes. Once you know - no matter how great those refunds are - if you use him to do your taxes the next year your a knowingly a criminal.

 

When an OP doesn't know the person is married, they are acting in good faith. Once they know the truth, they are CHOOSING to invade a marriage. No matter how many unicorns and flowers might be dancing in the background.

[Babolat]

A couple of folks have hit on it here in my opinion: married, dating someone else, these people are not emotionally available. They are not single if you will. And, maybe for some subconscious reason, they are attracted to them.

 

I hear a lot of posters saying "we had similar circumstances" and "we talked about that a lot". I think you made yourself vulnerable, weak if you will, which created feelings of love...who knows though, I am no Psychologist; I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night though!

[2sure]

When I was OW, I knew they were unavailable, that was the point. I didn't want a real relationship, I wanted something part time and advantageous to me. At the time, I wasn't in a good place with myself.

 

But, I can tell you that a MM has to pull out all the stops, go the extra Mile, be everything you want him to be...simply because he knows he is unavailable.

So, it costs him nothing, no commitment , and he gts to feel like he most remarkable man on the planet. He believes it himself ..that's the way he feels when he is OW. That's the entire point of cake eating.

 

That's why it's so hard for OW to let go once she is in.