Split Self Affair

[Betterthanthis13]

I thought it was a very good synopsis.

 

Ok good.

 

Option 5 would be:

Options 1-4 are ALL not great options because none of them alleviate your pain. Each option will alleviate SOME of your pain, but each option leaves you with a burden to bear. None of them feel like the right solution, because none of them are the right solution. There is no mystery. Stop driving yourself nuts trying to figure out the question, "duty" or "needs"? It is the wrong question.

 

The solutions simply don't address the right question. We have to figure out what the right question is, then figure out the solution. Because- Snow is not made of Milk.

 

Now totally off topic for a minute. You are in a plane. The plane is crashing. The air mask thingys pop out. You are seated between a kid and a senior citizen, who are both struggling to get their oxygen masks on.

 

You think- 3 people are in my row. Me, kid, and granny. I am the only person capable of putting on oxygen masks. What is the order of masks you put on and why?

 

Point is you are supposed to put yours on first so you don't die before you can help them, otherwise 3 people could die and that is dumb. Maybe you can hold your breath long enough to get theirs on- but that is risky. It's just not the right move, even if compassion tells you to do it that way, and it hurts you to watch kid and granny panic for the few moments while you get your own mask on.

 

 

Anyway---

Your "needs" are like the oxygen mask. They have to come first. Or there could be big trouble.

[rumbleseat]

There is a reason why this sort of thing couldn't be used as an excuse for criminal behavior...it's that it tries to explain away and minimize choice.

 

When you get right down to it, pretty much all human behavior can be explained with some sort of psychobabble term, when the simple truth is that someone made a choice. they decided what they would do.

 

I pose the the question. If a married man has an affair because of "split self", what is his excuse when he cheats on his affair partner? What label should be slapped on to that?

 

I know. Then he's just being a jerk.

[Mr. Lucky]

Your "needs" are like the oxygen mask. They have to come first. Or there could be big trouble.

Bullshyte. What if my "needs" lead me to drink and drive into the side of your family vehicle? Or sexually prey on your 8-year old daughter?

 

The people we hurt aren't just casual collateral damage as we put our needs first. And it's even more reprehensible when we hurt the very people - as in our spouses - we've pledged to honor and protect...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Anna-Belle]

There is a reason why this sort of thing couldn't be used as an excuse for criminal behavior...it's that it tries to explain away and minimize choice.

 

When you get right down to it, pretty much all human behavior can be explained with some sort of psychobabble term, when the simple truth is that someone made a choice. they decided what they would do.

 

I pose the the question. If a married man has an affair because of "split self", what is his excuse when he cheats on his affair partner? What label should be slapped on to that?

 

I know. Then he's just being a jerk.

 

If his first affair was a Split Self affair and he didn't deal with his issues properly, then of course the second affair is likely to be a Split Self affair too. This is why IC is so important and why the solution is not about choosing woman but dealing with the issues which ended up with the MM having an affair in the first place.

[rumbleseat]

If his first affair was a Split Self affair and he didn't deal with his issues properly, then of course the second affair is likely to be a Split Self affair too. This is why IC is so important and why the solution is not about choosing woman but dealing with the issues which ended up with the MM having an affair in the first place.

 

Fair enough.

 

Then he should be with neither woman until he has had extensive and intensive therapy. There should be zero contact between him and the other woman, and the only contact with his wife should be if they need to talk about the kids.

 

Any attempt at contact should be shot down immediately, until a psychologist ( who, baring a psychiatrist, is the only one qualified to diagnose a personality disorder like this "split self") declares that the two selves are whole again. If that takes years, so be it. Neither the marriage or the affair should be allowed to continue in any form.

 

It would also likely be recommended that both relationships be terminated anyway, as both began under circumstances that were very unhealthy for the man in question. Until he has received that extensive therapy, he would be in no position to choose either woman, and after all taht, he might well choose neither.

 

I wonder if the other woman would be such a fan of this diagnosis if that were the parameters that they were asked to operate under.

[Anna-Belle]

Fair enough.

 

Then he should be with neither woman until he has had extensive and intensive therapy. There should be zero contact between him and the other woman, and the only contact with his wife should be if they need to talk about the kids.

 

Any attempt at contact should be shot down immediately, until a psychologist ( who, baring a psychiatrist, is the only one qualified to diagnose a personality disorder like this "split self") declares that the two selves are whole again. If that takes years, so be it. Neither the marriage or the affair should be allowed to continue in any form.

 

It would also likely be recommended that both relationships be terminated anyway, as both began under circumstances that were very unhealthy for the man in question. Until he has received that extensive therapy, he would be in no position to choose either woman, and after all taht, he might well choose neither.

I wonder if the other woman would be such a fan of this diagnosis if that were the parameters that they were asked to operate under.

 

It's not uncommon that the Split Self MM decides he needs time for himself without either woman when in therapy.

 

Also the sense of freedom the MM senses once out of the marriage may very well result in neither woman being "chosen".

 

So? Either the OW wants to understand what lies behind the MM's behavior or she doesn't.

[Betterthanthis13]

MC is not recommended in a Split Self affair, not unless extensive IC has been done first, and preferably IC for both spouses.

 

Ok, thank you for correcting my interpretation of one of the choices. I'm not being sarcastic.

 

How would you phrase the choice a "split self" WS might be considering, if they were considering breaking off the A and staying with their wife? I want to be as accurate as possible.

[Betterthanthis13]

What label or description fits what you're actually doing?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I would call this exactly what it is. Attempting to take on the responsibility of my "duty" first, in order to get my needs met.

[Betterthanthis13]

Bullshyte. What if my "needs" lead me to drink and drive into the side of your family vehicle? Or sexually prey on your 8-year old daughter?

 

The people we hurt aren't just casual collateral damage as we put our needs first. And it's even more reprehensible when we hurt the very people - as in our spouses - we've pledged to honor and protect...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

We have not defined needs yet.

 

There is no such thing as a "need" to drink and drive.

[Anna-Belle]

Ok, thank you for correcting my interpretation of one of the choices. I'm not being sarcastic.

 

How would you phrase the choice a "split self" WS might be considering, if they were considering breaking off the A and staying with their wife? I want to be as accurate as possible.

 

Aren't you starting at the wrong end? Doesn't this again make it about choosing woman?

 

What the WS needs to do is to go to IC to join his sense of duty with his emotional self. Where this makes him end up is something the future will show.

 

But what is needed for a successful reconciliation is long term IC for both spouses and then maybe MC too.

[Anna-Belle]

Aren't you starting at the wrong end? Doesn't this again make it about choosing woman?

 

What the WS needs to do is to go to IC to join his sense of duty with his emotional self. Where this makes him end up is something the future will show.

 

But what is needed for a successful reconciliation is long term IC for both spouses and then maybe MC too.

 

I'd suggest as a choice:

Do I make an attempt to be the authentic me by going to IC wherever that path will lead me?

[Betterthanthis13]

Aren't you starting at the wrong end? Doesn't this again make it about choosing woman?

 

What the WS needs to do is to go to IC to join his sense of duty with his emotional self. Where this makes him end up is something the future will show.

 

But what is needed for a successful reconciliation is long term IC for both spouses and then maybe MC too.

 

It is my contention that the advice in the article is wrong, and dangerous for the WS.

 

I wrote a summary of what I feel the article says, and what I feel a WS who thinks they may have had a "split self" affair might think his choices are.

 

You said my choice # 3 was incorrect- I am asking what you think that particular choice should be phrased as. I hope he wouldn't phrase it as a choice between two women- it was my understanding that the article was making the distinction between choosing between a sense of "duty" and personal "needs", not choosing between women.

 

I have an entirely different way of looking at the WHOLE problem. But I can't explain it to anyone without sounding like a complete nutjob unless I go step by step, and whoever is following along agrees with everything I am saying from beginning to end.

 

I see your point- but I am not trying to solve the problem with the assumptions that are made about duty and needs that the article was based on. If you go back a few pages in this thread I have an example called

 

"Snow is made of Milk"

 

All the arguments in my Snow article proved that snow is made of milk. But snow is not made of milk. It is made of water. So if you were to open a snow making factory based on my article, and were having problems making snow, it would not matter how many times you talked about the contents of my Snow article and whether my article was good or bad, or if my snow making procedure was any good, you would never be able to make snow with milk and your business would fail.

So debating the article is a useless waste of time.

 

You can all debate the merits of this "split self" article as long as you like, but it will not really help you.

[Betterthanthis13]

I'd suggest as a choice:

Do I make an attempt to be the authentic me by going to IC wherever that path will lead me?

 

That is a good choice- I missed that one. that should be choice # 5.

 

Mine should be choice #6.

 

But what about the perceived choice to go back with his wife? (Choose duty over needs?)

[Owl]

I think that this "split-self" stuff is a great use of pseudo-scientific nonsenory to make a profit...and apparently it worked admirably.

 

Bottom line...any WS involved in an affair with an EA component to it is going to suffer from indecision/indecisiveness. They're going to struggle with making the choice.

 

It's not unique. It's not new.

 

It's not a situation where the AP somehow was granted super-powers to "tap into the emotional side" of a WS where somehow the BS was totally incapable of doing so.

 

In an EA, that emotional conflict of choosing to remain in the marriage or to end it is GOING TO HAPPEN EVERY TIME.

 

It doesn't require some spiffy label, and it surely doesn't justify a darned thing...to include conducting an affair behind the BS's back...potentially for many years...while theoretically trying to work up the balls to make that decision, and/or "get yourself ready for d-day".

 

It's a great marketing tool. Nothing more.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Maybe this explains my lowlife sister-in-law. She's a split self parent. Perhaps I can explain it to my niece this way, when she's crying herself to sleep at night. She was torn between her happiness and your well being. She needed to be true to herself and drink and drug and chase worthless men. Split-self? I feel like that somedays!

[Anna-Belle]

It is my contention that the advice in the article is wrong, and dangerous for the WS.

 

I wrote a summary of what I feel the article says, and what I feel a WS who thinks they may have had a "split self" affair might think his choices are.

 

You said my choice # 3 was incorrect- I am asking what you think that particular choice should be phrased as. I hope he wouldn't phrase it as a choice between two women- it was my understanding that the article was making the distinction between choosing between a sense of "duty" and personal "needs", not choosing between women.

 

I have an entirely different way of looking at the WHOLE problem. But I can't explain it to anyone without sounding like a complete nutjob unless I go step by step, and whoever is following along agrees with everything I am saying from beginning to end.

 

I see your point- but I am not trying to solve the problem with the assumptions that are made about duty and needs that the article was based on. If you go back a few pages in this thread I have an example called

 

"Snow is made of Milk"

 

All the arguments in my Snow article proved that snow is made of milk. But snow is not made of milk. It is made of water. So if you were to open a snow making factory based on my article, and were having problems making snow, it would not matter how many times you talked about the contents of my Snow article and whether my article was good or bad, or if my snow making procedure was any good, you would never be able to make snow with milk and your business would fail.

So debating the article is a useless waste of time.

 

You can all debate the merits of this "split self" article as long as you like, but it will not really help you.

 

I'd suggest as a choice:

Do I make an attempt to be the authentic me by going to IC wherever that path will lead me?

 

This is the only choice a Split Self MM should be interested in if he wants to heal his FOO issues.

[Betterthanthis13]

This is the only choice a Split Self MM should be interested in if he wants to heal his FOO issues.

 

Perhaps. I totally agree that would be the best choice, of all the available choices he *thinks* he has. But it still doesn't really help him, in my opinion.

 

It has not been a very effective strategy to tell "split self" affair WS's (aka cake eaters) to leave both women alone for awhile, and go to IC and figure out their FOO issues. Most of them aren't terribly interested in that advice from what I have observed.

[Anna-Belle]

Perhaps. I totally agree that would be the best choice, of all the available choices he *thinks* he has. But it still doesn't really help him, in my opinion.

 

It has not been a very effective strategy to tell "split self" affair WS's (aka cake eaters) to leave both women alone for awhile, and go to IC and figure out their FOO issues. Most of them aren't terribly interested in that advice from what I have observed.

 

They likely haven't hit their rock bottom yet. Being men these MM tend to think they can fix the problem themselves at first. Unfortunately men tend to have a much higher treshold than women before they seek help.

[pteromom]

This describes me almost to a T:

 

A Comprehensive Examination of the "Split-Self" Affair* - *111 Quimby Street, Westfield NJ 908.403.9300

 

"This pair lost the very essence of who they are in their efforts to 'do right' and they have to find themselves and determine their own definition of 'what's right for them' -- and that process of discovery may result in parting ways."

 

Anyone else see themselves here?

 

I can't get past the way this article is written. To me, the author sounds like an OW trying to elevate the importance of her relationship with the WH, while downplaying the importance of the relationship with BS. That alone destroys any credibility for me.

 

If you see yourself in it and that helps you somehow, great. Even if it just makes you realize you aren't alone.

[Mr. Lucky]

This is the only choice a Split Self MM should be interested in if he wants to heal his FOO issues.

I think you use these abbreviations as a way to avoid thinking about the real cost of what you and your MM do. To that end, let me provide you with some translations:

 

EMR - cheating on your spouse

Split-Self Affair - The cake eater's reasons for cheating on their spouse

FOO issues - The coward's reasons for cheating on their spouse

Triangle - the BS, the WS and the AP. One of them is figuratively screwing the BS and one (despite what is told to the AP) is literally screwing the BS.

 

Mr. Lucky

Edited August 13, 2013 by Mr. Lucky

[Betterthanthis13]

They likely haven't hit their rock bottom yet. Being men these MM tend to think they can fix the problem themselves at first. Unfortunately men tend to have a much higher treshold than women before they seek help.

 

I don't believe a person has to "hit rock bottom" to understand and apply my theories to their life.

 

12 step programs use the rock bottom idea to try to get people to change their lives, and free them from addictions, with marginal success rates.

[Anna-Belle]

I don't believe a person has to "hit rock bottom" to understand and apply my theories to their life.

 

12 step programs use the rock bottom idea to try to get people to change their lives, and free them from addictions, with marginal success rates.

 

"my theories"?

 

I'm quite familiar with the 12 step programs being my former common law spouse has been sober since 1985 with the help of AA. I don't care about success rates as long as it's helping the one I love. Same goes for the Split Self MM - my former MM has been helped by this line of thinking. And it helped me understand him. That's quite enough for me. His rock bottom was when he couldn't stomach lying anymore. That's when he sought out IC and soon thereafter told his wife the truth.

 

Some words of wisdom:

"Nobody changes until the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of change."

[Betterthanthis13]

"my theories"?

 

I'm quite familiar with the 12 step programs being my former common law spouse has been sober since 1985 with the help of AA. I don't care about success rates as long as it's helping the one I love. Same goes for the Split Self MM - my former MM has been helped by this line of thinking. And it helped me understand him. That's quite enough for me. His rock bottom was when he couldn't stomach lying anymore. That's when he sought out IC and soon thereafter told his wife the truth.

 

Some words of wisdom:

"Nobody changes until the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of change."

 

Xbf sober in AA 12 years, zero relapse... AA was not for just alcohol. 12 years of IC.

 

His solution to his serial cheating is to call it a sex addiction and go to SAA and specialized IC. He has been IC'd to death already. I guess he still needs to hit rock bottom? He's been to the depths of hell. That didnt inspire the change he needed to make for himself. Don't worry, I know. It must not have been his "true" bottom. I can't wait to see what his true bottom is for his upcoming gambling addiction. Or food addiction. Or whatever. Addiction is not his problem and he can't solve his problem if he lives in 12 step meetings and IC. Sorry.

 

Me: left home at 16. FOO problems galore. You name it. So, I ruined my own life until age 20. No real "rock bottom"-my life just sucked and was going nowhere. It was empty. No education, no family, no real friends, bad attitude, no money, working as a bartender, fake ID, partying all the time. Drinking. Drugs. Drama. Just wasting my life. I thought I was having fun. But I hated my life.

 

No IC, no help, no rehab, no self help books, no nothing...

 

I decided one day to sit down and THINK to figure it out- so I did, on my own. Once i figured out what the real problem was, (it took me months- but OH MY GOD IT WAS SO SIMPLE!!!!). I immediately got to work. i dumped my loser boyfriend at the time, put myself through college, got a "real job", started volunteering, started having real relationships, my life has gotten better and better every year since the mid 90's. I am happy, healthy, in good physical shape, successful, at peace with myself, and am (my estimate) well on my way to being recovered from Dday after about 3 months. Everyone else says it takes them 2-5 years. I don't feel alone or bitter, I have hope for the future and I had the strength and courage to kick him and see theough the bullshyte (once i got the truth)despite every attempt on his part to suck me back in. The first time I've ever been to therapy was in my mid 30's. I've never been to a 12 step meeting except as a guest.

 

So yes, I think my theory works- and nobody else seems to have my theory and I do not know why. This is news to me. I just learned this. I sort of thought everyone knew, and thought the same way as I did. i thought that is what people learned when they came from "good families". Until- I came on LS and noticed some wacky trends.

 

I thought I just had to figure it out on my own all those years ago because I didn't have a family to teach me. I didnt think I had a "theory". I am not Yoda. I'm scrambling to find ways to explain what is in my head to people who have no interest in listening to me. Lol.

 

It seems to me like nobody thinks like I do, and I feel like I am trying to explain gravity to a bunch of people jumping off a cliff, who are laughing at me and telling me that gravity is dumb and doesn't exist.

 

I was starting to think I am crazy- until my friend moved in yesterday and I explained my freaky theory to her, with her full attention and a whiteboard and a dry erase marker, and she said- OH MY GOD THAT IS SO SIMPLE and started crying.

 

So I know I'm not crazy. Ill figure out a way to explain it in less than 6 hours of intense one on one whiteboard dry erase babbling. Just give me a little bit.

I'm not trying to hide anything- I keep saying what I think- its just unclear and I keep talking about snow not being made of milk and that has GOT to be annoying.

[Moper]

I think anyone can claim that psychology is pseudo science. That claim is anti-intellectual and not.particularly instructive. Is Emily Brown peer reviewed?

[Moper]

Maybe I'm reading too much into this but I've been doing some googling on Split Self. The idea behind it is that in the case of a cheater, he/she started from day one making the wrong choices. He chose the safe option rather than the kind of woman he loved when got married. As with BPD, NPD and all the other disorders, does being diagnosed with them really make a difference to those who are hurt?

 

BPD and NPD aside, let's suppose a MM discovers he is having a Split Self problem, what then?

 

1. He realizes he was making decisions on auto pilot.

2. He realizes he may want something else all together.

3. He maybe signs up for therapy.

 

What does he tell the W at this point? If we imagine we were told that we have this issue, it would be devastating. I can't imagine learning that I have lived my life on auto pilot for years. Wouldn't it mean that many of my decisions don't really reflect what I want? Most cheaters I have known actually do care about their spouses. Many, from what I've read, still love them. Cheating on its own is a lot to cope with as a BS. Adding on this Split Self issue by way of explanation even if true presents immense and insurmountable problems, IMO.

 

If xMM had to tell his W that he never actually loved her, it would not only be a major psychological blow to her, it would also be quite untrue.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

I didn't read this as a disorder. I don't read split-self.as an excuse.

 

I was most definitely never "on auto pilot." I made choices. This issue is not really what I did since I cannot undo it, ever. I don't want to undo it for whatever that is worth. I need that emotional self back and without the A I would still be stuffing it.

 

It is an awakening more than anything.

 

Going forward will be a choice as well but it will be a more informed choic.