Pocky Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 Thought this might be of interest to some - I recently read an article in Time magazine regarding the theory that humans have a gene that may be responsible for how spiritual we are. One thing to keep in mind that spirituality and religion are not used synonymously in this discussion. http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101041025/index.html Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 and it's a great subject worth reading and researching more. But I doubt that it could ever be proven absolutely. Not with "science" as we define it today. Link to post Share on other sites
bluechocolate Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 I haven't read the article & it looks like I'll have to pay to do so off of that site - damn! I just had a dentists appt. this morning - I should have had a closer look around for better reading material before settling on the bloody "Daily Toriegraph" I remember a show on TV where they identified a part of the brain that is most active in people who are "believers" - mind you they also went to an extreme, using some test subjects who see visions & claim to have had direct communication with "God", so there is the possibility that some of these subjects were experiencing a kind of abnormal brain function. The most extreme believers showed the most activity in this part of the brain, but most folks who claimed to believe strongly in a God showed some activity in this part of the brain also. Unfortunately I can't recall test subjects who showed none. I guess it stands to reason that if there's a gene there will be some kind of measurable outcome if it's active. Does the article give some kind of indication as to how many could be carrying this gene? Link to post Share on other sites
lokai Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 In the future, it would help tremendously to provide a subscription-free link to these types of articles, if that is at all possible. If I can find the issue featuring this article for free at work, then maybe I will read it. I would rather not subscribe to view one article. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Pocky Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 I don't think there is a subscription free link. You're more than welcome to look around the internet to find one yourself. I did take the time to make you aware of the article in the first place, now I have to make sure your link is free? I purchased the magazine. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 http://www.corante.com/loom/archives/026675.html http://www.genefaith.org/ethgen/pages/faith/religiousgene.htm The God gene refers to the idea that human spirituality has an innate genetic component to it. It doesn’t mean that there’s one gene that makes people believe in God, but it refers to the fact that humans inherit a predisposition to be spiritual--to reach out and look for a higher being. http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/002916.html?entry=2916 http://www.useless-knowledge.com/articles/apr/oct306.html [color=darkred]It isn't an epiphany complete with light shining down from heaven that causes an individual to turn to God, it may simply be a gene acting up, a chemical reaction in the brain that can only be sated by a strong dose of the Holy Ghost. But perhaps those who aren't so virulently religious might ponder the implications of Hammer's assertion. They should be tolerant of every religious belief, because there is no Baptist, Catholic, Jewish or Muslim gene -- there is merely a gene that makes human beings hunger for a transcendent experience [/color] I have not read the Time Magazine article yet, but I did find some other information/edtorials on the subject. I think I will pick up Hammer's book and read it. Sounds like an interesting topic! Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 interesting conjecture, being genetically predisposed to an openness to the Spirit. I always figured people were spiritual beings, just that some people more openly responded to the call of the Spirit, while others suppressed it. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmaXOXO Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 interesting conjecture, being genetically predisposed to an openness to the Spirit. I always figured people were spiritual beings, just that some people more openly responded to the call of the Spirit, while others suppressed it. Like the numpty kid on the cerebral playground, I would have probably composed some long-winded, 16 page prose, trying to say the same exact thing. That's why I love your posts so darn much, Quank! Link to post Share on other sites
loveregardless Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 the majority of people are taught to supress it. Religion has played a large roll in this, as well as the govt. Only certian spiritual gifts were acceptable for the last few centuries...it's just now that people can actually be open and honest about these others spiritual things they are experiancing. We have to reprogram ourselves to accept them rather than supress them, and then deal with everyone else still trying to call you crazy. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted November 5, 2004 Share Posted November 5, 2004 I read the article the other day, and found it very interesting. The most important thing I noticed was that they explained that providing an explanation for something (evolution, genetics, germ theory, a "god gene") doesn't neccesarily explain it away. Link to post Share on other sites
faux Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 I can agree with this to some extent. I notice that humans reach for greater things, and tend to wonder and experiment in very varied beliefs. Maybe part of that is genetic, as all people tend to have such interesting and unique views on all varieties of subjects. If it is not genetic, it must be something consistent in our environment during human interaction. I know that genetics have some minor influences over behavior, but genetics cannot [yet] explain away things like alcoholism, faith, sexuality, or anger. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Faux, your scientific conclusions cannot defeat an entire science of behavioral genetics. You're creating a straw man--you're pretending that people are saying that genes govern how you behave, no matter what. What is accepted by most is that genes shape the chemicals in your brain that shape reactions to choices. Everything we feel comes from the brain. Our brain is governed by chemical reactions. The production of those chemicals are regulated by genetics. Sexual preference, addiction, and, as this article asserts (did you even read it) spirituality, are genetic. Link to post Share on other sites
faux Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 (in process of editing) Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Originally posted by faux legitimate reasons and proof to support my side of the argument You have not provided evidence, and you especially haven't provided proof. You say things like this: "I also have a lot of sources telling me that gentics have very little to do with behavior. " "It has been proved so many a time..." "I have access to several linked college databases, but I do not have the time..." "After doing some research at the old university, and speaking to a few professors,..." That's not proving anything. That's not a discussion at all. Link to post Share on other sites
faux Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 The only thing you have ever seemed to convey to me in discussion, Dyer, whenever I happen to disagree with you and have legitimate reasons and proof to support my side of the argument, is how creatively you attempt to insult me, and how very much you can completely ignore any evidence that suggests you may not be entirely correct in your claim. I do not see a reason to even bother trying to show you that things are not necessarily as you believe them to be, as you simply do not appear to listen or respect what I have to say. Ever. I am not saying that your opinions surrounding genetics are completely false, but I am saying that they are not entirely correct. You read, I read, we research and debate among fellow students, faculty and board members (Do you?), and we respond to issues that we feel we are knowledgeable in. Politics are foreign to me, but genetics I am quite familiar with. You are correct when you say that there is some evidence to suggest that behavior is genetic, inclusive of spirituality, alcoholism, and sexual preference, but not if you say that these traits are definitely pre-defined by genetics. If you believe that genetics play a more important role, then believe it, and please refrain from passing off such beliefs as absolute. If you want to say that, in time, your opinions may turn out to be solid fact, go ahead, but do not say that this is so NOW. I have something that I would like you to read, and there is far more where this came from: Lickliter, Robert, and Hunter Honeycutt. "Developmental Dynamics: Toward a Biologically Plausible Evolutionary Psychology." Psychological Bulletin 129.6 (2003): 819-835. If you cannot find the full, original text of that journal article, I can provide it to anyone interested, either in HTML format or PDF. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted November 7, 2004 Share Posted November 7, 2004 Faux, I think this thread should be nudged back to a discussion on the nature of faith as an evolved, heritable trait. I created a thread for our bickering on genetics. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=51110 Link to post Share on other sites
Matilda Posted November 9, 2004 Share Posted November 9, 2004 This thread reminds me of some research I read about in a book called "Mapping the Mind", by Rita Carter. Researchers at UC/San Diego have found that when a certain area in the temporal lobe of the brain is stimulated, this produces intense spiritual feelings. I believe the research was started, because some people who have epilepsy will have "religious experiences" during a seizure. There is also a Canadian researcher named Michael Persinger who has been using electromagnetic stimulation to produce these same kind of spiritual experiences. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrain.shtml http://home.att.net/~meditation/self.html Link to post Share on other sites
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