God, Bible, and Homosexuality = FEAR

[DayumQuitPlayin]

Hey Guys,

I have something serious to say. I welcome any and all comments and opinions.

 

I'm a believer of God. I believe there's only one God. I believe Jesus died for our sins. I believe that there's many different forces that controls this world. I also believe in other religions aswell. I believe that most religions are all inter-connected. I believe that there is no 'right religion'. I believe that if you believe in Him.. acknowledge that there is a God.. live not by the Bible.. but by standards that are respectful towards other people.. and have good Karma.. that when you pass away.. you will be re-united with thim.

 

Religion is very mysterious. People fight for religious beliefs. I just don't really know what to believe. I feel I have my own special bond with God.. I have my own way of praying to him.. I speak to him as if he were next to me.. a personal friend. I have so many questions.. and no answers.. and the answers I do get.. seem to contradict eachother.

 

My big dilema is.. I'm bi-sexual. I like guys and girls. I believe in what some of the Bible says.. and it scares me. I didn't choose to be this way. Its how I was born. Many people don't believe that. I don't care that they don't. I just want to know the truth. Why would God create someone.. someone like Me.. then say that people like me are an abomination to mankind. That its a sin. Muslims believe its one of the worst things to be.. they'll kill their own children if they were to find out that one of their children are that way.

 

All I know is that.. its a struggle that I fight everyday. I don't want to go to hell. I'm not an angel.. but nor am I a lil devil. Because of this problem.. I haven't done anything with guys. I've heard that.. 'The devil is putting these evil thoughts into your head.. just as long as you don't act upon them.. you'll be ok' ...Nonsense. Its human nature to have feelings for other people.. in my case. for both sexes. I even learned that they've found a 'gay gene'.. and scientists are finding alot of new information.. that supports that people are born that way.

 

Well.. because of my fear of God.. and his 'wrath' against homosexuals.. and these new discoveries concerning homosexuality.. and would make me wonder if a God.. who created homosexuals.. yet would destroy them for being what they are.. if a God even does exist. There's alot in the Bible.. that says..this and that.. but sometimes I feel it contradicts itself.. and the only true way of finding out.. is the day that you pass away. And its that day..that I fear the most.

 

 

Anybody with any comments.. please send.. I'm willing to hear other people's views..comments and opinions. Thank you

[moimeme]

Do not allow anybody to bastardize the Bible to condemn you. Even my own Pope does it, and it makes me puke.

 

The Bible is full of injunctions and warnings. Throughout both the Old and New Testament, people are warned to do some things and to not do others under threats of horrible fates.

 

The important point is that the exact same chapters of the Bible that contain the supposed injunction against homosexuality are sections that urge people to do things like avoid eating shellfish, which is also an 'abomination' and says that women are not allowed to teach.

 

The bottom line is that so-called 'Christians' select little bits of the Bible to wield as clubs against people they are prejudiced against while ignoring the bits they should apply to themselves.

 

Jesus was asked what people must do to get to Heaven. He didn't say 'be saved'. He didn't say 'make me the only God and condemn anybody who doesn't'. He didn't say 'stick your nose into others' sex lives and take upon yourself the task of judging others'.

 

He said to get to Heaven people must love God and love others.

 

As in LOVE.

 

Never, ever let anyone tell you differently because anyone who does is lying and treating the Bible obscenely.

[tokyo]

Gay, god, good

[tokyo]

Ok, something serious. I`m not religious, I´m not baptized or anything, but I can tell you, what counts is what you do and that´s the important thing, not who you prefer as your partner. Your sexual preferences are your business and nobody else´s.

[dyermaker]

Why would God create someone.. someone like Me.. then say that people like me are an abomination to mankind

If it makes you feel better, what you're reading isn't the word of God. It's the word of scholars of King James less than half a century ago.

 

The original Hebrew is a lot less harsh, it condemns homosexual acts (which they assumed were committed by straight priests out of wedlock) as being ritually unclean. If you're not an Orthodox Jew, there's no reason to follow Levitical Cleanliness laws--just like I'm sure you'll wear mixed fabrics, eat pork, eat shellfish, et cetera.

 

The most important part of being human is Sacramental Love. The God I Know would not create someone destined to be denied of it.

the only true way of finding out.. is the day that you pass away. And its that day..that I fear the most.

Do not be afraid.

 

God leads us in all of our decisions--the compulsion to be homosexual, as you were born to be, is so great that either God is a cosmic a**h***, deliberately leading you to hell for his own amusement--or he's the benevolent divinity we know him as.

 

You have to realize that "God" isn't real--as in, there's no absolute one religion, book, or building that has the right path to him. Rather, the concept of God (whether he exists as not) is realized through the sum of his people--so regardless of his "reality", we MAKE him real.

 

Knowing just what you've been through and seeing your outlook on life therefrom, I'd stake my own salvation on yours. I'd be happy to know a human of your caliber is in heaven with me--but if we're both wrong, I'll see you in hell.

 

I mean, if you really think about it--Hell is what you make it. What more hell could one experience than going through life deprived of sexuality because you're following some 4,000 year old law you don't even understand? That seems more condemnable than eternal flame, or gnashing teeth, or the smell of sulfur.

[loveregardless]

everything Dyer just said! Absolutely. And everything Moi said, rock on Moi! That was awesome!

 

Divinity is not as limitied and defined as we subgroups of humans try to make "it" or "him" or "her"... God, or whatever name you want to call it by, made and is a part of EVERYTHING and EVERYONE, it is only the religious rules and dogmas that you are reffering to which makes us think there is a chosen and an outcast, a right and a wrong, an evil and a good. All existence is the same "chip off the 'ol block", and has the same divine light inside them. That light is not dependent on anything you could ever do, it can never be taken away or revoked, it can never be less or more than anothers spark. (or soul) The only difference is, some people chose not to acknowledge it's existence, and others do. You have absolutely nothing to worry about. Be a good person, live life to the fullest, be good to those aroound you, show others what true love is....these are the things that matter.

 

Not what sexual orientation you are, what color your skin is, what name you call your God by, or what your favorite past times or hobbies are. "God" isn't discriminatory, people are. There is no such thing as good or evil to "god". And there is no such thing as a "place" called "heaven" and a "place" called "hell". In the bible, heaven was never once used to describe an actual place, it literally meant, the heavens, the sky, the clouds, space, etc.

 

A brilliant prof. I had once had, told us an interesting bit of information. He said that many reports of people who have had NDE (Near Death Experiances) include a description of a "life review" (as is mentioned in the bible as "judgment"-wrong word used in translation) where people see, feel, experiance every moment in their life, and how it subsequently effected every single person or thing that they came in contact with, and then how they affected others, etc. etc. In other words, whatever it was that you put out there into the world, you experiance it all. And for some, this is the quintesential hell, for some would not ever want to have to go through what they have put others through. But for others, who lived good lives where they put out goodness and kindness, they have nothing to fear, for their review would surely seem like heaven. And considering that in this phsycial world is the only place that "time" exists, of our own creation might I add, there is no such thing as "time" during these reviews. And it could very well seem like it lasts, whats this, an eternity. Hmmm...sound familiar? Anyway....it sure makes sense to me, and my prof. was someone that certainly knew what he was talking about. He wasn't of any religion, (he was a comparative rel. prof.)and he was a very intelligent man who had studied under one of the most brilliant scientists alive today. If you had heard him speak, it would make sense to you, too. That class changed my life, it's most likely the reason I am who I am today. Me.

[Moose]

Moi, Dyer, LR,

 

Great explanations there. Very close, very.

 

He said to get to Heaven people must love God and love others.

 

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me". John 14:6

 

Of course He wants us to love God and love others. But this verse clearly says that unless you accept Christ as your Saviour, you will perish. It doesn't matter if your gay, bi-sexual, mass murderer, whatever.....and it doesn't mean that you have to live a spotless life either. As long as you accept Christ and what He's done for us, ask Him into your heart.....you're saved.

 

Jesus paid our sin debt on the cross. The sins we've sinned in the past present and even in the future were all placed on the old rugged cross. Of course we should strive to be the best we can be. But it's realized by God that us mere humans are incapable of being clean enough to enter heaven. That's why he provided this, "out".

 

Noone is perfect.....noone. If a Christian believes that he's better, or cleaner than the next person.....he's sadly mistaken. It's even said in the Scriiptures, many who believe they will be first, will be last, and those who are last, first.....

 

You don't have anything to worry about, as long as you asked Christ to be your Saviour.

[chicklover]

I also agree with LoveRergardless. I don't know how it is in christianity ( since I didn't have that upbringing). But I reget that there is some corner in the world where the great people efforts over years, has resulted in some development in man's knowledge which makes everthings make sense.

From the philosophy, science, to mysticism and religion everything comes to a harmony. But their socity has been always looked down to because of poverty and low materilistic life standards which is also the result of poverty.

 

The more I study their work , the more I see the harmony. But maybe and just maybe, because their work is orignitated from the "source". The source of everthing. What else could it be?

[loveregardless]

except that we are all "saved" the moment we are born. You don't have to believe anything specific to be accepted by God. I understand that the interpretation of the Christian bible is taken very literally by some, and I respect that, but it is not the ONLY "answer". In reality, you don't even have to be a "good" person to be accpeted by God...God doesn't have these physically human ideas of "right" and "wrong" to decide whether or not you are "his children"...but your karma and your life review, are very much what you make of it. There are ALWAYS consequences for your actions, its the basic law of attraction. But you do not get "punished" for your bad deeds on earth by a judgemental God, you experiance what you sow. That's FAR worse than some mystical being in the sky damning you to a mythical place where "bad" people go. I would rather go to a firey pit filled with demons than experiance every terrible thing I ever did or said to someone else, first hand, in thier shoes. There is no greater "judgement" than simply being accountable and subject to experiancing what you put out in the world. For every tear you caused, every pain you caused, every thing you made others feel, every action or behavior you make, and this aplies to your treatment of the earth, too...believe that! Thats a big "load to carry" if you don't live a "good" life. Make sure you pack "light".

[Moose]

(Please remember, these are only my opinions, and my beliefs, I respect what others believe, I'm not telling you this is right, or wrong, you draw your own conclusions, don't tell me I'm wrong for believing this either.)

 

except that we are all "saved" the moment we are born.

 

Nope, we are not. There is an age of accountability. God realizes that when we're born we don't know what sin is......hence, "the age of accountability".......there isn't anything written in stone saying that at age 12 or age 14 you should know the difference, it's God's call on that one, and of course you'd know too. The only way you can be saved is to ask Christ into your heart. It's written. You can't do that straight out of the womb.

 

I understand that the interpretation of the Christian bible is taken very literally by some, and I respect that, but it is not the ONLY "answer".

 

I take it then that you don't read the Bible, or understand it. Some Scriptures where meant to be taken literally some where meant as analogies. As far as not the, "ONLY" answer, Jesus said He was, I believe Him. Others can believe what they want. I choose to listen to God Himself.

 

In reality, you don't even have to be a "good" person to be accpeted by God...God doesn't have these physically human ideas of "right" and "wrong" to decide whether or not you are "his children"...but your karma and your life review, are very much what you make of it.

 

The only way God will accept you is through Christ Himself. God knows exactly what us humans deem as right and wrong. "Karma", and "life review", are mans ideals.....not Gods.

 

There are ALWAYS consequences for your actions, its the basic law of attraction. But you do not get "punished" for your bad deeds on earth by a judgemental God, you experiance what you sow.

 

You're exactly right on this one.

 

There is no greater "judgement" than simply being accountable and subject to experiancing what you put out in the world.

 

And this is right too, it'll all be done through God Himself, guarenteed!

[loveregardless]

I understand and have read the bible just as much as you have. We've been over this. And I 100% respect your beliefs, but they are just that, your own, and that does not make what I said any less true than what you said. All religion is man made. And every man finds his faith in different ways. The bible may have been the "words of God", but it was channeled through a human who wrote it down. And then it was intepreted by many other humans, who wrote it down again in another language. That's a fact. So even though it may have been based on real spiritual experiances, as most religions of all ages were, it does not make it any less man made. The concepts I mentioned, are not man made, they are real and basic truths about our spiritual existence that have been around since thousands and thousand of years before the bible or Jesus ever existed. I'm not trying to get into a religious debate, I'm offering the kid spirituality without religion, that's all.

[HokeyReligions]

I enjoy discussions on religion and the various interpretations of the Bible and social beliefs.

 

Something that I heard in various Bible studies and churches and general discussions, is an opinion on homosexuality and how the Bible (fundamentalist) works with today's science and burgeoning social acceptance of homosexuality, and it attempts to address the question: Why did God make me gay?

 

I am not saying that I endorse or reject this, I just found it interesting and perhaps a new way for some people to look at the topic.

 

The basics principle ties back to an Old Testament text, the story of Job. Now, I don't remember all of the references and the details, but basically Job was like a bet between God and the Devil. The devil bet that if you spit in someone's face long enough, that person will turn on you. God said no, the love and bond between Job and God was stronger than that. God gave Job all sorts of tests and trials and yet Job still believed and worshiped God, and did not fall [far] from the path that God laid out for him, no matter the temptation.

 

Homosexuality is a test, or temptation, that God has allowed. The bet is that for some people, they are born to be homosexuals, that is God put in the person a gene that pre-determines that person's sexuality. The devil places the social temptation and confusion so that many heterosexual people behave as homosexuals, thinking that they are bi-sexual or homosexual. I don't remember all the discussions on the differences to God between these two reasons for homosexuality, but the 'why' had something to do with the way a person can make a choice to deny their homosexuality, and the proper 'help' for them depends on if they are God-given homosexuals or devil-given homosexuals. Maybe someone else is familiar with this line of thought and can fill in the blanks.

 

It all ties out to a God-given homosexual or a devil-given homosexual can overcome it with God's help and/or live their life by sacrificing their physical body's programming for the salvation of their soul, and be happy and content during their life on earth.

[Moose]

LR,

 

Then you should state, to me and others, that these opinions and thoughts belong to you. Remember, there is a difference between stating opinions and insisting these are facts.

 

they are real and basic truths about our spiritual existence that have been around since thousands and thousand of years before the bible or Jesus ever existed.

 

I wouldn't reply if you'd just put in your posts, "My opinion", instead of saying, No, this is how it is, or this is the truth. You shoot down my faith by insisting that your way is the way it is. To me it isn't and I'll debate you over what you call truth, unless you state that it's just an opinion. If you'd notice, I try to put in all my posts that this my opinion. Sometimes I slip up and I forget to. But really, I don't ever say that I'm totally right, nor do I admit my opinions are wrong.

 

We all want to help Mike out. But for us to sit here and say my way is the right way is wrong. We should offer our opinions and not argue over who's right and who's wrong, and let Mike form hi own opinion.

[loveregardless]

Hokey that's very interesting.

Moose, that's what I did. I don't think I'm right. I don't even have a set of "set" beliefs. That's the whole point. My problem is, that you cannot make a statement about Christianity and say, "in my opinion", because basically you are still saying, I'm right because the bible is right. This is not an opinion statement, it is a statement of absolute truth, even if you tag a "in my opinion" on the end of it. Your statements ended with periods and stated "truth"...all I tried to do was offer the other side of what your beliefs define as truth. I don't have a religion to defend, I am merely stating what is real as I, and history, know it. Sorry, don't see how this is supposed to be stated any other way.

 

So yes, it is my opinion that there are basic truths which far outdate ANY religion. This opinion is based on the reality of certain experiances and phenomenon that have existed and been doumented throughout history by scholars and philosophers. It is my opinion to believe in them and see them as divine, but it is certainly not an attempt at making any absolute claims whatsoever, but quite the opposite. My saying that all religions are man made is a FACT. It is a fact. It is not an opinion, because it is reality. I don't see how this is a matter of opinion.

 

And quite frankly, this is not what the point of this thread is. You started the "argument" by saying that Moi, Dyer and I were "close" and then stating what you obviously see as "closer."

[DayumQuitPlayin]

Hey Guys,

 

I really do appreciate all your input on this subject. Everyone has made good points.. and I felt that your words were words of inspiration.

 

It's really hard going through this. I know some people who don't even believe in God or Religion because of what they are... but I'm not like that at all. I have always thought that if you're a good person.. that God knows your heart.. and if you live a happy life.. harming no one.. and accepting God and Jesus.. then you would be alright. Its just that I can't help thinking about what some people believe.. those who study the Bible.. and recite passages.. that often makes me feel a little bad.

 

Again, I thank all of you.. you've offerend words of enlightenment

[dyermaker]

If you believe that it's true that you must accept Christ to be saved--think about this:

 

You can accept Christ in many different ways. In fact, I don't know if there's a way to live life without accepting him. There's conscious decisions, which are stubborn and lateral, and then there's our inalienable goodness. Since Christ was God, and God is good--we cannot live our lives without accepting Christ.

 

Plenty of atheists are clearer deliverer's of Christ's message, and because often agnostic/atheists are good communicators, sometimes God speaks more clearly through them.

 

Apologies to fundamentalists who may feel they're putting their time in for a special reward, but everyone is saved.

[moimeme]

Homosexuality is a test, or temptation, that God has allowed. The bet is that for some people, they are born to be homosexuals, that is God put in the person a gene that pre-determines that person's sexuality. The devil places the social temptation and confusion so that many heterosexual people behave as homosexuals, thinking that they are bi-sexual or homosexual. I don't remember all the discussions on the differences to God between these two reasons for homosexuality, but the 'why' had something to do with the way a person can make a choice to deny their homosexuality, and the proper 'help' for them depends on if they are God-given homosexuals or devil-given homosexuals. Maybe someone else is familiar with this line of thought and can fill in the blanks.

 

It all ties out to a God-given homosexual or a devil-given homosexual can overcome it with God's help and/or live their life by sacrificing their physical body's programming for the salvation of their soul, and be happy and content during their life on earth.

 

It denigrates God quite a lot to portray Him as some kind of Cosmic game-player, constructing people solely to toy with them and test them and then insist that they deny themselves love and sex as well. I'd want no part of that God.

[faux]

I remember the years my parents forced me to attend a bible school. I try to forget those days. I find it amazing that I was taught, most likely, every page in the King James variation and have forcefully blocked it ALL out of my mind.

 

Do what you believe is right. Deal with how god will judge you if that time comes, but do not fear what you are in an attempt to conform to opinion.

[bluechocolate]

Originally posted by moimeme

 

It denigrates God quite a lot to portray Him as some kind of Cosmic game-player, constructing people solely to toy with them and test them and then insist that they deny themselves love and sex as well. I'd want no part of that God.

 

I was thinking the same thing - it's OK to be gay as long as you're celibate, chaste & repentant .