Real relationship?

[ladydesigner]

I agree freestyle.

 

You blew it, FinallySettled.

 

When a BS boards the crazy train by hurling invective at the unknown interloper, it is a protection of the psyche because they still LOVE you.

 

And they are not yet ready to DEAL with what someone they LOVED did to them.

 

With a WS's support, they will be in time, but not initially.

 

Defend the AP when faced with that much pain you can guarantee a divorce.

 

Absofrickenlutely! I couldn't get a D quick enough if that were the case.

[busdriver]

If I'm reading Spark and Freestyle correctly, a WS needs to minimize his/her feelings about the AP (assuming any remain) and reflect the most comforting reality possible for their BS. I agree wholeheartedly, and have done so with my W since she found out. I have kept my thoughts and feelings about my OW to myself, and she would never suspect they even linger. This approach has made it possible for us to R.

 

Kind of puts a dent in the whole real-ness conversation, though, doesn't it?

[Furious]

If I'm reading Spark and Freestyle correctly, a WS needs to minimize his/her feelings about the AP (assuming any remain) and reflect the most comforting reality possible for their BS. I agree wholeheartedly, and have done so with my W since she found out. I have kept my thoughts and feelings about my OW to myself, and she would never suspect they even linger. This approach has made it possible for us to R.

 

Kind of puts a dent in the whole real-ness conversation, though, doesn't it?

 

A WS who holds a candle for their former affair partner and at the same time is going through the motions of a false reconciliation is not being "real" at all, it's actually quite cruel.

 

What you've ended up with Busdriver is an affair that you failed to make a real relationship and a marriage you've failed to make a real relationship.

 

I daresay BD, why not tell your wife the truth about your lingering feelings for your ex OW and how you're only going through the motions of reconciliation and your heart is otherwise engaged in the memory of your affair.

 

I guess honesty may put a dent in your unwillingness to have a real relationship.

[Spark1111]

If I'm reading Spark and Freestyle correctly, a WS needs to minimize his/her feelings about the AP (assuming any remain) and reflect the most comforting reality possible for their BS. I agree wholeheartedly, and have done so with my W since she found out. I have kept my thoughts and feelings about my OW to myself, and she would never suspect they even linger. This approach has made it possible for us to R.

 

Kind of puts a dent in the whole real-ness conversation, though, doesn't it?

 

You got it bud!!

 

If you can't eventually be real with your BS, you should leave.

 

If you can't reconcile without at least acknowledging the damage your AP did to your spouse and family, why did you reconcile?

 

If you sit around and pine for your AP, Busdriver, you made the wrong choice! The life sentence is your's to endure. I have no sympathy.

 

if what your spouse wants, is NOT want you want, that is on you man!

 

YOU had an opportunity to change it, or walk away. YOU did not.

 

The real ness of your marital relationship is on you. Your affair relation remains untested, because of YOU.

 

Sorry, man. NO sympathy here. Fix it or leave. I think you acquiesced to it...and did not demand change because you BELIEVED it impossible.

 

You have the relationship you deserve.

 

We all do.

[AlwaysGrowing]

Busdriver...sincerely, if you have an iota of human decency left in you..you will tell your wife how you feel about your ap.

 

You look back, on your ap, and its still all unicorns and rainbows, ap wouldn't hurt a fly (unless that fly in on your wife's heart, then ap would use an chainsaw to kill it).

 

It's not a matter IF you will re-offend...its WHEN.

 

All the thought processes you used to have the affair are alive and well, being tended by you.

[Finally Settled]

Are you able to put yourself in exwife's shoes, if only for a few moments?

 

I think it's safe bet, that she viewed your attitude as still defending the OW, and your feelings for her. Whether it was rational, or not--it most likely came across to her, as further disloyalty, and a lack of empathy from you.

 

It made you look like you were still straddling the fence, instead of firmly & decisively being in your exwife's corner. She needed reassurance that you were on her side. And the onus was on you, to provide that, in order to rebuild trust.

 

A campaign of hatred is a normal and understandable reaction towards an marital interloper. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as no laws are broken. And often times, it dissipates, if the BS feels safe to vent & express his/her feelings.

 

If a BS is NOT allowed to express legitimate emotions, of anger, disgust, and hatred towards the party who was an accomplice in turning his/her life upside-down---they're likely to feel highly invalidated.

---and is pressured to "rug-sweep" or "stuff it down"---the chances of rebuilding trust, and emotional intimacy are almost nil. The invalidation compounds the injury. And the BS can't feel emotionally safe.

 

Let me begin by saying that as I stated in my previous post, I refused to be party to a campaign of hate. I had no issue with my exwife speaking her mind regarding my other woman at all. I never told her what to think or say. I never dodged her comments, her questions, or her pain. What I refused was to join her in finding things about her to hate. If I had been looking to avoid any of the tough stuff I would have simply not told her that I had resumed the affair. I could easily have kept it from her, but I knew that in order for us to move forward I needed to be honest with her.

 

I agree that the onus was on me. That is why I clearly did not straddle the fence. That is why I gave her complete honesty, found a marriage counsellor that she dismissed after only a few sessions, and put myself into individual counselling. I shared everything with her and I opened myself up to everything she put my way.

 

I'm sorry, but I had finally laid my soul bare to my exwife and I was not going to stray from that honesty. In no circumstance did I, or would I have, defended my other woman. I answered questions in a very neutral way. I would not have spoken ill of her any more than I would have my exwife while I was in the affair.

 

My exwife did her own rugsweeping. I wanted us to resolve the issues we created in our marriage, and those that I created with my infidelity, but she quickly chose the route of brushing it all to the side and acting as though nothing had happened. She had done the same for quite some time before the affair as well. We had some problems within the marriage and she chose not to participate in marriage counselling. I have never been the type to bury my head and my exwife is very much that type.

[Finally Settled]

I agree freestyle.

 

You blew it, FinallySettled.

 

When a BS boards the crazy train by hurling invective at the unknown interloper, it is a protection of the psyche because they still LOVE you.

 

And they are not yet ready to DEAL with what someone they LOVED did to them.

 

With a WS's support, they will be in time, but not initially.

 

Defend the AP when faced with that much pain you can guarantee a divorce.

 

Your perception may be that I blew it, but I am confident I did not. I worked closely with individual counsellors and also tried my hand, alone, with a marriage counsellor. The topic had been brought up at many points with them and I worked around both the advice they gave me, and my own thoughts. I had even asked my exwife once to attend a session with me so the counsellor could somehow lead us to a common ground, but she refused.

 

You are making a leap in your final statement. I did not defend my other woman to my exwife. I sat while she said her peace. While I wouldn't join in with the hatred, I also would not defend either her to my exwife. Sadly enough, I was the one who could not proceed with things as they were and I filed for divorce. I wanted to reconcile, but my exwife wanted to get on with things and forget any unpleasantness.

[It-is-what-it-is.]

Your perception may be that I blew it, but I am confident I did not. I worked closely with individual counsellors and also tried my hand, alone, with a marriage counsellor. The topic had been brought up at many points with them and I worked around both the advice they gave me, and my own thoughts. I had even asked my exwife once to attend a session with me so the counsellor could somehow lead us to a common ground, but she refused.

 

You are making a leap in your final statement. I did not defend my other woman to my exwife. I sat while she said her peace. While I wouldn't join in with the hatred, I also would not defend either her to my exwife. Sadly enough, I was the one who could not proceed with things as they were and I filed for divorce. I wanted to reconcile, but my exwife wanted to get on with things and forget any unpleasantness.

 

 

But see your logic is flawed. You ended up marrying your OW.

 

So in reality, your wife was right. Your lack of willingness to try to see her side kept the door open for your fond feelings for the other woman. Your wife saw the lack of commitment on the wall and gave up.

 

You may have provided lip service to reconciliation, but you never invested in helping your wife heal the way she needed to. It was your way or the highway.

[Finally Settled]

But see your logic is flawed. You ended up marrying your OW.

 

So in reality, your wife was right. Your lack of willingness to try to see her side kept the door open for your fond feelings for the other woman. Your wife saw the lack of commitment on the wall and gave up.

 

You may have provided lip service to reconciliation, but you never invested in helping your wife heal the way she needed to. It was your way or the highway.

 

That is your perception of things. I feel that her resistance to outside help was a huge hindrance in our being able to reconcile. I also did not leave the marriage for my other woman, I left because the marriage failed. I happened to be fortunate enough that years later my other woman was still available, and still had feelings for me.

 

I did not provide lip service at that point. I was completely invested in our making the marriage work. If you care to read the posts I've written you will see it was not my lack of commitment to the reconciliation that turned into the issue. Perhaps she had given up on me, perhaps she was fine settling for life as it was. To me that was not a real marriage and I chose to leave it.

 

As for your final comment, yes it may have been my way or the highway. I wanted us to work together with independent, professional help to find a way back to a real marriage. That did not happen. I'm sorry, but I do not believe I was being unreasonable in expecting reconciliation to be worked at rather than remaining in a marriage that was little more than a shell.

[Finally Settled]

A WS who holds a candle for their former affair partner and at the same time is going through the motions of a false reconciliation is not being "real" at all, it's actually quite cruel.

 

What you've ended up with Busdriver is an affair that you failed to make a real relationship and a marriage you've failed to make a real relationship.

 

I daresay BD, why not tell your wife the truth about your lingering feelings for your ex OW and how you're only going through the motions of reconciliation and your heart is otherwise engaged in the memory of your affair.

 

I guess honesty may put a dent in your unwillingness to have a real relationship.

 

 

This is a very interesting post. I think that many people involved in many sorts of romantic relationships hold onto their 'past loves'. I think we believe we can bury the feelings and somehow contain or control their impact on our future relationships. Unfortunately, I think we are often just kidding ourselves. I so often read that you should fake it till you make it -- that is often what all sorts of romantic partners do. Sometimes it works and sometimes it fails miserably.

[MissBee]

This is a very interesting post. I think that many people involved in many sorts of romantic relationships hold onto their 'past loves'. I think we believe we can bury the feelings and somehow contain or control their impact on our future relationships. Unfortunately, I think we are often just kidding ourselves. I so often read that you should fake it till you make it -- that is often what all sorts of romantic partners do. Sometimes it works and sometimes it fails miserably.

 

I do not think this is the norm...it's called rebounding, and even in normal dating relationships the general consensus is that being on the rebound, i.e. being in love with one person but you can't be with them so jump under another, is not a good idea.

 

Emotionally mature people don't do this. However, I agree emotionally immature people, esp those who feel they cannot be without a romantic partner, hop from person to person and take no time to process, decompress or heal so they can step fully into their new relationship.

[Finally Settled]

I do not think this is the norm...it's called rebounding, and even in normal dating relationships the general consensus is that being on the rebound, i.e. being in love with one person but you can't be with them so jump under another, is not a good idea.

 

Emotionally mature people don't do this. However, I agree emotionally immature people, esp those who feel they cannot be without a romantic partner, hop from person to person and take no time to process, decompress or heal so they can step fully into their new relationship.

 

I don't think it's necessarily all about rebounding. I think it may be more akin to settling.

[MissBee]

I don't think it's necessarily all about rebounding. I think it may be more akin to settling.

 

That sucks for those who choose to do it...

 

I would never settle in a relationship, and esp not one like marriage that I'm planning to commit "forever" to.

[Finally Settled]

That sucks for those who choose to do it...

 

I would never settle in a relationship, and esp not one like marriage that I'm planning to commit "forever" to.

 

I agree with you MissBee. Looking back I see that I didn't realize that was what I was doing. My actions at that point came from good intentions and doing what I thought was right. Sometimes reality can be as clear as mud when you're in the midst of it. My regret is having put my exwife through any of it.

[Furious]

 

I also did not leave the marriage for my other woman, I left because the marriage failed.

 

I happened to be fortunate enough that years later my other woman was still available, and still had feelings for me.

 

I did not provide lip service at that point. I was completely invested in our making the marriage work.

 

If you care to read the posts I've written you will see it was not my lack of commitment to the reconciliation that turned into the issue. Perhaps she had given up on me, perhaps she was fine settling for life as it was. To me that was not a real marriage and I chose to leave it.

 

 

I'm curious as to how you reunited with your ex-OW, did you contact her after your divorce? Did she contact you?

 

Had you kept in low contact throughout the years you were "reconciling" with your wife. Had you perhaps sent flowers to or letters to the ex-OW during the time you were trying to save your marriage?

 

You say you were fortunate enough that your OW was available after your divorce and still had feelings for you. I assume you must have had feelings for her also if you resumed your relationship with her.

 

I feel there are too many holes in your story. On the one hand you say you were fully committed to reconciling with your wife but the fact you are once again with the ex-OW gives me the impression you were still on the fence the whole time and not being "real" to either your wife or Ex-OW.

 

The very fact that you are now with the Ex-OW is contradictory to your claims of having been fully engaged in reconciling with your wife.

[ladydesigner]

My regret is having put my exwife through any of it.

 

Well at least you have felt this way. That's all I would have asked for.

 

It's interesting because I find myself wanting WH to say bad things about the MOW to me. I know all her bad traits, but I wanted to hear it from his mouth. Reason being is because my WH made me look like a monster to the MOW and it couldn't be the furthest from the truth. In fact the MOW has insulted me directly, calling me insulting names (I never called her an insulting name) telling me all the reasons my WH doesn't want ME anymore. Those are the reasons I need to hear it. Because I was demonized. It may be petty I'll admit.

[Finally Settled]

I'm curious as to how you reunited with your ex-OW, did you contact her after your divorce? Did she contact you?

 

Had you kept in low contact throughout the years you were "reconciling" with your wife. Had you perhaps sent flowers to or letters to the ex-OW during the time you were trying to save your marriage?

 

You say you were fortunate enough that your OW was available after your divorce and still had feelings for you. I assume you must have had feelings for her also if you resumed your relationship with her.

 

I feel there are too many holes in your story. On the one hand you say you were fully committed to reconciling with your wife but the fact you are once again with the ex-OW gives me the impression you were still on the fence the whole time and not being "real" to either your wife or Ex-OW.

 

The very fact that you are now with the Ex-OW is contradictory to your claims of having been fully engaged in reconciling with your wife.

 

I apologize for the lapse in time since you wrote this post Furious. I will respond to the best of my ability.

 

I did try and contact my other woman once it was clear my exwife had no intention of working to reconcile our marriage. She never responded to me until months after I sent her copies of my divorce papers and I was within weeks of it being finalized. I had spent years with nothing from her at all and I had no idea if she was still availabe, or even alive for that matter.

 

I disagree that my current situation with my other woman is contradictory to my story. I had wanted to reconcile with my wife. My wife had wanted to regain our marriage with none of the work. I knew I needed help from both her and independent counsellors, but she chose not to participate. I knew I could have set my other woman aside and I could have recreated a happy marriage with my exwife. I would probably always have loved my other woman, but conversely I will always love my exwife as I move forward with my other woman.

 

I was real with my other woman from the start and I finally allowed myself to see the pain I caused my wife and became very real when my other woman ended our affair. I struggle with the fact I allowed myself to have an affair and that I carried it on in such a cruel manner. I will always struggle with how I treated her and the man I was at that time of my life.

[Finally Settled]

Well at least you have felt this way. That's all I would have asked for.

 

It's interesting because I find myself wanting WH to say bad things about the MOW to me. I know all her bad traits, but I wanted to hear it from his mouth. Reason being is because my WH made me look like a monster to the MOW and it couldn't be the furthest from the truth. In fact the MOW has insulted me directly, calling me insulting names (I never called her an insulting name) telling me all the reasons my WH doesn't want ME anymore. Those are the reasons I need to hear it. Because I was demonized. It may be petty I'll admit.

 

I can understand your mindset. If my other woman had demonized my exwife and given me a reason to speak against her, then I would have done so. Both my exwife and my other woman were amazing to each other and still are. For this I have an incredible respect for both, but especially my exwife.