HIIT vs joging on treadmill.

[dichotomy]

So I am starting to switch from 5k steady state on the treadmill for longer extended times - to High intensity intervals for less time.

 

Supposedly supposed to be better for fat loss and muscle gains. I have to say sprinters look better than marathon runners.

 

all out sprint - light jog (or power walk) ... repeat

 

Anyone try this?

 

Treadmill Workouts Using High Intensity Intervals - HIIT

[KungFuJoe]

Well...what is your goal? To be able to run long distances or look good?

 

HIIT all the way.

[tman666]

I prefer "cardio" in the form of bodyweight conditioning work, complexes, sled work, sprints, and the like. I find that when I maintain a high level of conditioning, I can handle lower intensity exercise just fine.

 

Granted, if your goal is to compete in a marathon or an Iron Man or something, then yeah, you have to train the way they do. For general physical preparedness, however, I definitely prefer HIIT type activities.

 

Treadmill anything sounds incredibly boring though.

[Star Gazer]

I have to say sprinters look better than marathon runners.

 

For your average Joe, you can't exactly tell the difference. For Olympians, some bodies are built to sprint, others are built for distance. It's genetic. That said, I assure you that Ussein Bolt and Michael Johnson did not get their bodies from sprinting. They spend SIGNIFICANT time in the gym lifting heavy - more time lifting than at the track.

 

That said, interval training is better for fat loss than constant state cardio, whatever the form.

[dichotomy]

For your average Joe, you can't exactly tell the difference. For Olympians, some bodies are built to sprint, others are built for distance. It's genetic. That said, I assure you that Ussein Bolt and Michael Johnson did not get their bodies from sprinting. They spend SIGNIFICANT time in the gym lifting heavy - more time lifting than at the track.

 

That said, interval training is better for fat loss than constant state cardio, whatever the form.

 

Good point but isn't HIIT better for preventing muscle loss or even actually creating it - than jogging for 5 -10 miles? I think I read that after some time (45 mins) you start to rob muscle.

[tman666]

You can burn off muscle over-doing anything (weights, HIIT, running, etc.) in the absence of the proper nutrition, hormonal support, and rest needed to facilitate recovery. Remember: you don't grow from lifting weights. You grow from recovering from lifting weights.

 

With higher intensity exercise, such as weight training and sprints, you're forced to recruit more Type II muscle fibers, which are the "fast twitch" fibers in a muscle. They also account for most of the "massive" look that strength athletes have.

 

Type I muscle fibers are not as massive, but can sustain low intensity output for a long time. Type II muscle fibers sustain higher power output, but for a shorter duration.

 

The notion that low intensity cardio will burn off muscle after a certain period of time is not necessarily correct. For someone who is very lean, low intensity cardio isn't the best choice because the body will be forced to catabolize muscle in order to fuel the exercise. This is especially true if a person's glycogen stores are already depleted.

 

However, if someone still has plenty of body fat on them, low intensity cardio becomes a more attractive option for fat loss. For fatter people, lower intensity cardio can also be sustained for longer in the absence of conditioning levels, plus, it helps save their joints.

 

Muscle, especially Type II fibers, is metabolically "expensive", meaning it the body has to use a lot of energy to keep it. Without the proper stimulus (i.e. intense training that works those Type II fibers), the body isn't going to be inclined to build or keep those fibers.

 

Think of it as a "use it or lose it" scenario.

 

With the popularity of things like CrossFit, people have basically hopped on board the "high intensity exercise is the only way" bandwagon. My personal view is that low, medium, and high intensity work all have their place, and that it's good to know the pros and cons of each activity so that it can be properly applied to an individual's situation.

 

Having a 300 lb obese 45 year old who hasn't trained for 20 years run hill sprints is asinine. The science might show that HIIT burns more calories than LISS cardio given a constant time period, but the individual factors must be taken into account as well.

 

For people who are already in decent shape and are used to lifting, higher intensity condition can be more feasible, but one still needs to consider how it impacts their recovery. Running sprints on your "off days" is going to cut down on your recovery time from your weight training sessions, no matter who you are.

 

As such, one really needs to have a firm grasp on their goals and tailor their diets/training to meet those goals. While the studies may show one thing, a lot of people miss the forest for the trees when it comes to practical application. Instead, many choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater as soon as they hear that one thing is "better" than something else.

 

Anyway, rant over...

[KungFuJoe]

You can burn off muscle over-doing anything (weights, HIIT, running, etc.) in the absence of the proper nutrition, hormonal support, and rest needed to facilitate recovery. Remember: you don't grow from lifting weights. You grow from recovering from lifting weights.

 

With higher intensity exercise, such as weight training and sprints, you're forced to recruit more Type II muscle fibers, which are the "fast twitch" fibers in a muscle. They also account for most of the "massive" look that strength athletes have.

 

Type I muscle fibers are not as massive, but can sustain low intensity output for a long time. Type II muscle fibers sustain higher power output, but for a shorter duration.

 

The notion that low intensity cardio will burn off muscle after a certain period of time is not necessarily correct. For someone who is very lean, low intensity cardio isn't the best choice because the body will be forced to catabolize muscle in order to fuel the exercise. This is especially true if a person's glycogen stores are already depleted.

 

However, if someone still has plenty of body fat on them, low intensity cardio becomes a more attractive option for fat loss. For fatter people, lower intensity cardio can also be sustained for longer in the absence of conditioning levels, plus, it helps save their joints.

 

Muscle, especially Type II fibers, is metabolically "expensive", meaning it the body has to use a lot of energy to keep it. Without the proper stimulus (i.e. intense training that works those Type II fibers), the body isn't going to be inclined to build or keep those fibers.

 

Think of it as a "use it or lose it" scenario.

 

With the popularity of things like CrossFit, people have basically hopped on board the "high intensity exercise is the only way" bandwagon. My personal view is that low, medium, and high intensity work all have their place, and that it's good to know the pros and cons of each activity so that it can be properly applied to an individual's situation.

 

Having a 300 lb obese 45 year old who hasn't trained for 20 years run hill sprints is asinine. The science might show that HIIT burns more calories than LISS cardio given a constant time period, but the individual factors must be taken into account as well.

 

For people who are already in decent shape and are used to lifting, higher intensity condition can be more feasible, but one still needs to consider how it impacts their recovery. Running sprints on your "off days" is going to cut down on your recovery time from your weight training sessions, no matter who you are.

 

As such, one really needs to have a firm grasp on their goals and tailor their diets/training to meet those goals. While the studies may show one thing, a lot of people miss the forest for the trees when it comes to practical application. Instead, many choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater as soon as they hear that one thing is "better" than something else.

 

Anyway, rant over...

 

Pretty much this.

 

And cardio sucks, anyways.

[tman666]

Pretty much this.

 

And cardio sucks, anyways.

 

The leanest, most muscular guy I know does most of his training at a high level of conditioning: his rest periods are short or nil, he's explosive as hell, and he's a master with his own bodyweight.

 

He's running in a "Warrior Dash" event in a couple of weeks, and competing in Men's Physique the weekend after at an NPC show.

 

My point is that if someone trains to be strong and in great shape, lower intensity stuff becomes easier. While this guy isn't running marathons, he has no problem running 5 miles straight at a good clip either.

 

To each their own though. Plus, everyone has to start somewhere. If a daily walk is all one can manage right now, then start there and work up. I just hate seeing all of the blanket statements about what a person "has to do".

[dichotomy]

. Running sprints on your "off days" is going to cut down on your recovery time from your weight training sessions, no matter who you are.

 

...

 

 

as opposed to jogging?

 

Using an A/B (every other day) lifting program - I usually toss in jogging 1-2 time a week in those off days. Other off days may include yoga or basic stretching routines to deal with my lower back - or just plain rest.

 

When would you suggest adding in running sprints if you’re lifting?

Edited August 14, 2013 by dichotomy

[Emilia]

While the studies may show one thing, a lot of people miss the forest for the trees when it comes to practical application. Instead, many choose to throw the baby out with the bathwater as soon as they hear that one thing is "better" than something else.

Which is pretty much why we have you chained to this forum here on LS

[tman666]

as opposed to jogging?

 

Using an A/B (every other day) lifting program - I usually toss in jogging 1-2 time a week in those off days. Other off days may include yoga or basic stretching routines to deal with my lower back - or just plain rest.

 

When would you suggest adding in running sprints if you’re lifting?

 

In my opinion, it depends on what you're trying to do. Sprints are great for improving your conditioning levels, but they will also cut into your recovery quite a bit.

 

Then again, depending on what your lifting program looks like and what your goals are with that, adding sprints might be a great choice.

 

What does your program look like? (sets/reps/weight used) What is your age and approximate bodyfat? Any current or past injuries?

[tman666]

Which is pretty much why we have you chained to this forum here on LS

 

[Emilia]

hahaha great stuff

[dichotomy]

In my opinion, it depends on what you're trying to do. Sprints are great for improving your conditioning levels, but they will also cut into your recovery quite a bit.

 

Then again, depending on what your lifting program looks like and what your goals are with that, adding sprints might be a great choice.

 

What does your program look like? (sets/reps/weight used) What is your age and approximate bodyfat? Any current or past injuries?

 

Goals

 

Drop one pant size, gain a bit more strength and size, keep flexibility and functionality to avoid future injuries and age declines, consider taking some martial arts for fun, and maybe try a real 5K race for fun only.

 

Program

 

Right now it is the Strong lifts 5x5 programs. Incremental weight adds with a modification to replace squats and deads with trap deficit deads and dumbel lunges.

 

A days - Lunges, Bench Press, Inverted rows, dips, and hanging bent knee leg raise (abs).

 

B Days - Trap Deficit Deads, Shoulder/Military Press, Pulls up/Chin Up, prone bridges (abs).

 

Strength-wise some examples - my normal bench weight (5 sets 5 reps) is 235. I could progress to 250 without killing myself. Shoulder press/Military press is 120-130 for 5 sets 5 reps. Trap deads are behind - but I am taking it easy there for now, but adding weight steadly.

 

As mentioned in between days I do some light jogging up to 3 miles on treadmill - focusing on maintaining heart rate in target zones for up to 45 mins. Some days I don't do this - as I listen to my body and rest or just do stretching and physical therapy work.

 

Age and body fat

 

48, Not sure % fat .... but I need to drop one full pant size before I feel somewhat good about my gut. That said – I have a 12 inch drop between jacket and pant size.

 

Past or Current Injuries

 

Lower back. I have had MRI's and no serious issues - but two very common (for my age) disk bulges in lower back. Told I have good spinal structure, nerve routing, and lots of muscle.

 

 

 

Okay - school me.

[Star Gazer]

Good point but isn't HIIT better for preventing muscle loss or even actually creating it - than jogging for 5 -10 miles? I think I read that after some time (45 mins) you start to rob muscle.

 

As a marathon runner, that certainly hasn't been my experience.

[tman666]

Stronglifts 5x5 appears to be serving you well! 5x5 @ 235 on bench isn't half bad, especially for an old duffer! (kidding, kidding)

 

From what you described, it sounds like you're doing quite well.

 

If you're jogging 3 times a week, you might consider switching 1 of your jogging sessions to a sprint session.

 

I personally think 100 yards is a good sprint length for fat loss. Shorter distances are great for working on speed, but I think that 100 yard sprints are great for fat loss. The distance allows you time to ease into your stride, but forces you to dig deep to maintain speed.

 

In my experience, 40 yard sprints are a great test of explosive power, but they are also so short that you don't get the same effect of having to dig to keep going, if that makes sense.

 

If you do 100 yards sprints, I'd start it all off by doing plenty of mobility and warm up work to start. From there, I'd probably run a 100 at about 50% exertion, then 75%, then do your first "working" sprint at around 90 to 95%.

 

When I was doing these (it's been a while), I would usually shoot for 5 to 8 sprints. For 40 yard sprints, I tend to shoot for 8 to 12.

 

One note about sprinting: from my experience, I've found that if I go 100 percent, my chance of injury is much higher. I'd rather dial it back slightly and remain un-injured. Just my personal preference though.

 

You could also try replacing one of your jogging sessions with a bodyweight conditioning circuit. Things like burpees, pull ups, push ups, high knees, squats, lunges, jumps, and what not can all be killer conditioning tools. I usually pick 2 upper body movements (push ups, pull ups) and 2 lower body moves and alternate upper/lower. 4 or 5 rounds of this with as little rest as possible, and I'm usually quite wiped out.

 

If I were you, I would start off by simply replacing 1 jogging session with a sprint session OR a bodyweight circuit. I would recommend that you don't throw in both at the same time, at least initially. Add one, see how it affects your recovery, and adjust accordingly.

 

Another side note: I've found sprinting to be somewhat hard on the hips and lower back. Since you mentioned having had some lower back issues in the past, you might need to take extra care to maintain your hip mobility. The foam roller should be your best friend.

 

Hopefully some track/running people can chime in as well with sprinting tips and insight.

[Phoe]

HIIT is definitely best but because I HATE cardio sometimes I end up drudging through my daily 20 minutes at a steady pace. Bad Phoe!!

 

Did HIIT yesterday though and actually had a bit of fun with it, had some awesome music going, could feel my ponytail bobbing around behind me, I got super into it lol.

[dichotomy]

Thanks tman666,

 

It has been a long progression for me to get to that bench weight. I will get to 250 and be happy to limit it there. Yes not bad - for a middle aged guy – the AARP membership brochures will come in two years, but I refuse to get old !

 

I like the idea of bodyweight conditioning circuits. Been thinking about adding some jump boxes and the like to my routine. I will looking to this – but I have to watch doing this with anything that over works me from the strong lifts the previous day.

 

While there is a great high school track near my home that I could visit during nice weather on a weekend - I suspect for now (as boring as it is) the HIIT running/sprints are going to have be on my treadmill at home. Life demands, two kids, full time job, part time political work, time with wife, force me into using my home gym early each morning, but it’s a nice home gym. However – I think your idea of mixing it up – HIIT once a week, with light steady jogging another time during the week.... makes a lot of sense. Variety.

[FitChick]

OP, a friend of mine lost about 15 lbs doing that while changing nothing else.

 

Another friend of mine is a long time runner and recently hired a trainer to shape her bum and thighs using kettlebells and heavy weights. She told me that running isn't great for the muscles. Her arse actually has small saddlebags and looks rather flabby even though she has low body fat and is tiny. She runs for mental health rather than weight loss.

Edited August 14, 2013 by FitChick

[theonlyjuan]

Look at 100m sprinters. Most of them are very muscular. They only do short sprints ( HIIT ) They do weight training too.

 

They do have the best nutritionists around, that always helps.

 

HIIT Should not be burning muscle. If you have a huge caloric deficit diet that will eat into your muscle.